Why was this show created? I dont get it..

[Ambiguous Turd]

Whats hysterical is that you think Vince Mcmahon gives a flying rats ass about what the fuck old ECW fans think. All 300 or so of them.

Why would he bring back a company who made so little dividens that it couldnt even pay its own wrestlers, and failed miserably??? Does that makes sense to you?? Not at all. Of course he intended it to be what it is, and it begun long ago, with CM Punk, The New Breed, and giving Bobby Lashley a title run. You can be blind to it if you would like, but its the truth. Why do you think they used RVD to usher the title back in, and then had him drop to Big Show, and not another ECW original?? Becuase he knew it was going to be a WWE show, He just had to do it gradually. And it was done. Like I said, you act as if it all changed over night. It didnt.

ECW would have actually been fine if it had the money to throw around like Vince did. If they had a budget like Vince ... and didn't have to worry about Vince or Eric Bischoff stealing their talent away ... thus eroding the Brand, they would have been around longer.

Not that ECW was my favorite Brand back in the heyday, but I am smart enough to know that there is a niche market of fans that DO want to see a hardcore product like that. And if it is enough of them that they are willing to spend money on seeing that product, then I'm going to examine it from a business perspective. Clearly, there are more fans that would rather see a Hardcore ECW, and spend their money on seeing a hardcore ECW, than seeing a Training Show, which produces pretty low ratings.

Vince could have duplicated ECW, except with it being under his WWE umbrella. Instead he chose not to. And he threw all that revenue away. He also threw all those viewers away, as well.

Like I said ... when you compare doing 2.8 ratings to doing 1.1 ratings, close to a 2 point ratings decrease ... I think that pretty much says it all.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

ECW would actually be fine if it had the money to throw around like Vince did. If they had a budget like Vince ... and didn't have to worry about Vince or Eric Bischoff stealing their talent away ... thus eroding the Brand, they would have been around longer.

Vince could have duplicated that, except with it being under his WWE umbrella. Instead he chose not to. And he threw all that money away. He also threw all those viewers away, as well.

Like I said ... when you compare doing 2.8 ratings to doing 1.1 ratings, close to a 2 point ratings decrease ... I think that pretty much says it all.

ok, so I was right. thankyou. Rep for NorCal. Obviously, if there was enough of a fan base who wanted to see garbage bowling alley wrestling, the old BHWL (bingo hall wrestling league) wouldnt have had to sell itself. They even put Paul Heyman in charge of booking at the beginning, to make Extreme Crap Wrestling fans feel safe. Once they secured the futrue of the program, he was dispatched. Everyone bought it hook line and sinker.

also the fourth point, all the more proves my point. He ushered the program in with somewhat simular programming and familure superstars to create the initial buzz which was acheived. then he secured furtue TV, and made it into what he wanted it to be all along.

Remember. The XFL, and The New American Gladiators has bitchin ratings their debut week as well. Means little to nothing. New debut shows tend to grab big ratings if done correctly.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

ok, so I was right. thankyou. Rep for NorCal.

als the third point, all the more proves my point. He ushered the program in with somewhat simular programming and familure superstars to create the initial buzz which was acheived. then he secured furtue TV, and made it into what he wanted it to be all along.

Remember. The XFL, and The New American Gladiators has bitchin ratings their debut week as well. Means little to nothing. New debut shows tend to grab big ratings if done correctly.

Vince never had any intention of making ECW exactly like the ECW of old. However, it is clear that he did not originally plan on making it a Training Show. That should be fairly obvious. He wanted it to be a Watered Down ECW, to keep him out of hot water with Parental Watchgroups and Advertisers.

When fans didn't buy that vision, he turned it into what you see today. Pretty straight forward.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

He did have it as a training show though. Hence why CM Punk was on the program, as was The New Breed, and Bobby Lashleys first title reighn. Pretty sure I mentioned all that earlier. It returned at the beginning of July, and Lashley won the title in December. Punk was on the program all along, as were the new breed. Seems pretty straight forward a training/new guy show is what it was always intended to be.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

Furthermore, even more to my point. Vince was actually running ECW House Shows, and had intention of producing ECW only PPV's when he first rolled out the Brand. Are you going to say with a straight face that he never really intended to do any of that, and that everything went exactly according to plan there? I certainly don't see them running ECW only House Shows anymore. Hmmm.

It's about time people stop being WWE marks/ Vince loyalists ... and start doing what Jesse Ventura says ... "Tell it like it is".

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Furthermore, even more to my point. Vince was actually running ECW House Shows, and had intention of producing ECW only PPV's when he first rolled out the Brand. Are you going to say with a straight face that he never really intended to do any of that, and that everything went exactly according to plan there? I certainly don't see them running ECW only House Shows anymore. Hmmm.

It's about time people stop being WWE marks/ Vince loyalists ... and start doing what Jesse Ventura says ... "Tell it like it is".

Like I said. it was all just to create initial buzz. and simply to say just becuase the ECW house shows and PPVs were scrapped doesnt mean it wasnt meant to be a WWE newcomer / training show.

Why would Vince think that guys that couldnt draw peanuts to a circus BEFORE would be doing anything different now?? He didnt. He likely belived the WWE taining/ new talent show might be able to, but as I said, it was merely the initial push to get things established, so he could transition it to what it is.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

He did have it as a training show though. Hence why CM Punk was on the program, as was The New Breed, and Bobby Lashleys first title reighn. Pretty sure I mentioned all that earlier. It returned at the beginning of July, and Lashley won the title in December. Punk was on the program all along, as were the new breed. Seems pretty straight forward a training/new guy show is what it was always intended to be.

CM Punk was well-known throughout the Indy Circuit at that point. Putting him on a show like ECW was a smart move for the ECW fanbase, regardless. He wasn't exactly new, or In Training, however. I'm sure the ECW of old would have even loved to have had him.

As far as Bobby Lashley ... he wasn't exactly in Training or New at that point in time. He had already debuted in November of 2005 with them, so he was already in the company for a year.

However, when Lashley came in, this was the beginning of the end of his vision. The show started off fine, consistently drawing good ratings. And then when it became clear that it was not going to be the ECW fans were led to believe it was, then they bolted.

Why was Vince so frustrated with the December to Dismember PPV? I find it completely pathetic that Vince could not accept responsibility for his actions, and tried to blame Heyman ... when Heyman clearly tried to tell Vince that fans were going to be irate at the quality of PPV Vince wanted.

All this transpired over several months, and a glorified pissing contest between Vince and Heyman, simply because Vince took great delight in making it known to Heyman that he could over-rule him at any given moment. Listen to Heyman's shoot interviews, as he is very candid about what went on behind the scenes. He even said Stephanie was taking his side at one point, and we know how they didn't get along.

Now, regarding the ratings of ECW. Here is what they were producing. And as you can see, it was more than just a week or two and more than just a "curiosity" of how the show was from the fans.

June 13, 2006 2.79
June 20, 2006 2.30
June 27, 2006 2.20
July 04, 2006 1.40
July 11, 2006 2.40
July 18, 2006 2.20
July 25, 2006 2.40
August 01, 2006 2.40
August 08, 2006 2.20
August 15, 2006 2.30
August 22, 2006 2.30
August 29, 2006 1.90
September 05, 2006 2.10
September 12, 2006 1.90
September 19, 2006 1.60
September 26, 2006 1.80

With the exception of July 4th (which is understandable), they were pretty consistently high. Compare that to today's 1.1 and 1.0's.

And that is because Vince was offering a different ECW product back then. He was offering ECW original talent, occasional hardcore matches, Extreme Expose, Diva Strip Poker, and the like.

Only when he decided to try to revolve the show around Bobby Lashley did the fans begin to really turn on him. And you can see the gradual decline ever since.

December 16, 2006 0.90
December 19, 2006 1.54
December 26, 2006 1.40
January 02, 2007 1.50
January 09, 2007 1.40
January 16, 2007 1.50
January 23, 2007 1.50
January 30, 2007 1.70
February 06, 2007 1.40
February 13, 2007 1.50
February 20, 2007 1.30
February 27, 2007 1.60
March 06, 2007 1.70
March 13, 2007 1.61
March 20, 2007 1.60
March 27, 2007 1.70
03 April, 2007 1.70
10 April, 2007 1.65
17 April, 2007 1.50
24 April, 2007 1.40
01 May, 2007 1.60
08 May, 2007 1.47
15 May, 2007 1.50
22 May, 2007 1.50
29 May, 2007 1.42
05 June, 2007 1.43
12 June, 2007 1.70
19 June, 2007 1.60
26 June, 2007 1.78
03 July, 2007 1.51
10 July, 2007 1.37
17 July, 2007 1.34
24 July, 2007 1.31
31 July, 2007 1.30
07 August, 2007 1.49
14 August, 2007 1.50
21 August, 2007 1.70
28 August, 2007 1.30
04 September, 2007 1.60
11 September, 2007 1.40
18 September, 2007 1.40
25 September, 2007 1.10
02 October, 2007 1.20
09 October, 2007 1.20
16 October, 2007 1.20
23 October, 2007 1.40
30 October, 2007 1.60
06 November, 2007 1.20
13 November, 2007 1.40
20 November, 2007 1.30
27 November, 2007 1.40
06 December, 2007 0.60
11 December, 2007 1.30
18 December, 2007 1.26
25 December, 2007 0.90

After fans rejected Bobby Lashley, and the thing went down with Heyman, did Vince totally reverse gears on the show ... and simply turn it into a third WWE brand that completely revolves around new people being on the show. Not just newer guys like Punk, Lashley, etc. but new guys who are fresh out of FCW, who nobody has even heard of.

Like I said. it was all just to create initial buzz. and simply to say just becuase the ECW house shows and PPVs were scrapped doesnt mean it wasnt meant to be a WWE newcomer / training show.

Sure, it was. He was running ECW House Shows just to create "buzz", and never intended to really be doing ECW House Shows long-term.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

Additionally, you may want to check out this article on WWE.com from back in May of 2006, right before the Brand was resurrected. Vince discusses his plans and vision for the Brand. It kind of contradicts just about everything ECW is today.

ECW Going Global
May 26, 2006

WWE Chairman Vince McMahon has big plans for ECW. In fact, in a Friday afternoon interview with WWE.com, McMahon revealed, “We are taking the ECW brand global.”

Going worldwide with the likes of Paul Heyman, Tommy Dreamer and Sabu, however, is miles away from where ECW was prior to its closing in 2001. In fact, stationed out of Philadelphia, many looked at ECW as just a northeastern wrestling promotion. But the recently re-launched ECW will not have much of a struggle making an impact both here in the United States and overseas. In fact, according to Mr. McMahon, ECW already has plans for its own Merchandising and Licensing, International Sales, consistent Live Event schedule, as well as its own set of pay-per-views.

But with so much of WWE’s global enterprise behind it, can ECW be expected to be the same ECW it was when it developed its cult-like following in the late 1990s and early 2000s?

“We will bring forward many of the more legendary characters of ECW’s past,” said McMahon regarding today’s ECW. “But it can’t be the same. That’s pretty much impossible. It’s now five years later. A lot of the performers now have five more years under their belt, and the ECW style has taken a great deal out of them. This is something that the ECW audience already realizes. They know that if ECW was still in business today, they would be very different from what they were five years ago.”

While the re-launched ECW will undoubtedly be different from the original ECW, McMahon is adamant that the brand will not stop pushing the envelope, nor will it be like the already successful WWE brands SmackDown and RAW.

“It will be an alternative, there’s no doubt about that,” claimed the WWE Chairman. “It won’t be shot the same way we shoot SmackDown or RAW. It’ll have a different feel. It will be more gritty. There will also be more imagination put into concepts and characters. But at the same time, there will need to be a delicate balance because there are three masters to serve. There’s the vocal ECW audience. Then there’s the SCI FI audience that is accustomed to things more SCI FI. And obviously, you have to also be true to our broader audience in terms of what sports-entertainment is today.”

With so much of the vision of the new ECW brand already mapped out, many wonder what took WWE so long to re-launch the brand. According to McMahon, it was all about timing.

“Over the last several years, we have been busy re-establishing the concept of ECW without it having to be its own brand,” said McMahon. “Now, with the success of The Rise and Fall of ECW DVD and the success of last year’s One Night Stand pay-per-view, it just seemed right. And it feels like this year’s One Night Stand pay-per-view will be a launch to re-establish the brand.”

So with the launch of the re-established brand right around the corner, will former ECW head Paul Heyman have a role? “Absolutely,” exclaimed McMahon. “But at the end of the day, Mr. McMahon is in charge.”

http://www.wwe.com/shows/ecw/news/ecwglobal

 

[truk24]

May I also add that ECW should go back to having real themes of real bands that people actually heard of. Dreamer came out to Alice N' Chains "Man in the Box". RVD came out to "Walk" by Pantera.

As I said we don't need bloodfest, spotfest, or even even lesbians. Just simple things that should have helped pioneer wrestling today. Heyman was a poor businessman, but he had a strong vision. Just because Heyman couldn't match WWE/WCW doesn't mean his vision was a waste.

Us beer drinking fans, who admire quality ass kicking, and the occasional spatter of blood would enjoy a show for ourselves. I like to call ourselves "The 20 somethings". We don't want the watered good boy wrestling. Fuck the children, and their parents who think that wrestling promotes violence.

ECW should be an outlet for fans who could care less about women's wrestling. One person even suggested that ECW should be what Adult Swim is to the Cartoon network. What a genius thing to say, and it is good to see someone has their shit together. I'm tired of wrestling being for kids. RAW is hardly RAW, and I think ECW should surpass it, in terms of the aggressiveness of the show.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Sidious, it would appear you have been played just as much as all the old Bingo Hall league fans were.

I mean seriously, a quote from the fucking WWE website??? What, pray tell exactly, does that quote do, but support everything I said?? That it was initially brought in the way it was, and then was developed??? Nothing.

Also, the ratings also furthermore prove my point. The ratings started off high, with the initial push, and then declined. Nothing you posted shows anything to contrary of saying it was always to be a developmental program.

Of course Lashley wasnt brand new, which is why he was the one given the title reighn. but he was NEW to the Main Event, to the upper tier title scene. Of course thats who they put it on.

CM Punk had a strong indy following ....right...which is why 90% of the WWE audience, and me myself, had never heard of him before. lets be real here. He was new, as was the whole new breed. Nothing you posted did fuck all to disprove what Im saying. E for effort though

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

Sidious, it would appear you have been played just as much as all the old Bingo Hall league fans were.

I mean seriously, a quote from the fucking WWE website??? What, pray tell exactly, does that quote do, but support everything I said?? That it was initially brought in the way it was, and then was developed??? Nothing.

Also, the ratings also furthermore prove my point. The ratings started off high, with the initial push, and then declined. Nothing you posted shows anything to contrary of saying it was always to be a developmental program.

Of course Lashley wasnt brand new, which is why he was the one given the title reighn. but he was NEW to the Main Event, to the upper tier title scene. Of course thats who they put it on.

CM Punk had a strong indy following ....right...which is why 90% of the WWE audience, and me myself, had never heard of him before. lets be real here. He was new, as was the whole new breed. Nothing you posted did fuck all to disprove what Im saying. E for effort though

Yep. Like I said. Vince never intended on doing ECW House Shows long term or running ECW only Brand PPV's, right?

Give me a break. I've heard of people sticking their heads in the sand at the truth, but this brings it to a whole new level.

As far as the posting from WWE.com, Vince pretty much articulated his vision for the product right there. And when you look at it today, you will see that the entire product completely contradicts what his original vision was. It doesn't remotely resemble an edgy product.

Even the WWECW of old was by far edgier than what we see today.

The original ECW audience, additionally, was obviously much more of a smarky crowd. If anyone knew who CM Punk was, it was going to be them. The guy wasn't exactly fresh out of training, like DJ Gabriel, Ricky Ortiz, or Tyson Kidd. WWE casuals don't follow Indy Wrestling. Obviously people like you aren't going to know who the guy was. But casuals didn't make up the original ECW audience. They were anything, but casual fans.

As far as Ratings, they were high for several months ... not just weeks ... because it was a different product then, as compared to the product it was today. Vince was Hell-Bent on making Lashley a star, and chose to revolve an entire Brand around him, shoving him down everyone's throats in the process. That does not mean that the entire show was designed to be a Training Show, like it was today. Back then, the show still had some edge to it, unlike today.

When fans began turning on Vince and souring on ECW being watered down, did they begin to leave. So, instead of making it a show with any edge, Vince didn't know what else to do. So, he made the show a Training Show featuring no-name talent people have never heard of.

Oh, and absolutely nothing you said proved your claim of ECW being intended to be a Training Show all along. It's unfortunate, but it completely contradicts Vince's very own words of what his vision of ECW was to be. I wish I could give you something for Effort in return, but I can't.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

This is getting extremely redundant. Ive already disproven everything you said throughout this thread, in one post or another. One more time I guess.

EVERY show was far edgier then than it is now. WWE has PG programming.

Like ive said, oh, three times now. He pushed it with house shows to create initial buzz to establish it as being serious. It didnt draw. Doesnt mean he wasnt intending it being what it is. Also, im fairly sure SD! and RAW used to have its own independant house shows and PPVs as well didnt they??

Do you honestly not understand that of course, he isnt going to say is true plans for the program on WWE.com?? Is he REALLY gonna come out and say "I couldnt give two shits about the "original ecw" and this is basically going to become our newcomer show"..its all part of the push. The PPVs the house shows, the statement of how totally awesome it was gonna be on WWE.com. You do know that WWE.com is a kayfabe website no?? You have been worked as badly as all of those guys were if you bought into all that, and take it seriously.

 

[klunderbunker]

Yeah I'm with norcal here. WWE still hypes up the concept that ECW is a legitimate third brand when to anyone that knows what they're talking about it's a minor league. Why should I beleive what WWE and Vince tells me? If he wanted to make it equal, why does it only get an hour? You talk about the house shows. Do you remember the towns they were in and the matches that were happening? Van Dam against someone, and other random fillers. Why not put some legit main eventers there? Why ship all the good talent to Raw or Smackdown? Even when Van Dam was there he made it seem third rate. December to Dismember is living proof of it. It was never about making ECW great. The roster was so weak Hardcore Holly was in an Elimination Chamber. Give that a minute or two to sink in.

 

[Slyfox696]

WWE still hypes up the concept that ECW is a legitimate third brand when to anyone that knows what they're talking about it's a minor league.

Sidious was making the point that it wasn't intended as the minor league.

Why should I beleive what WWE and Vince tells me?

Don't. Think for yourself.

If he wanted to make it equal, why does it only get an hour?

Because that's all that Sci-Fi would offer. It's not like Vince McMahon can wave a magic wand and decide how long to make the program. It was a one-hour show, on a trial basis, on a TV station that made ZERO sense for a wrestling show.

You talk about the house shows. Do you remember the towns they were in and the matches that were happening?

Sure do.

Van Dam against someone, and other random fillers.

Yes, Van Dam vs. Kurt Angle truly was nothing at all.

Why not put some legit main eventers there?

You mean like Rob Van Dam, Kurt Angle, The Big Show, Bobby Lashley, and Chris Benoit?

Even when Van Dam was there he made it seem third rate.

I would argue more that it was third rate because Van Dam was there, but whatever.

December to Dismember is living proof of it.

They brought out the fucking Elimination Chamber to try and get people interested. The simple fact was the ECW bombed. Paul Heyman bombed. People wanted the ECW from the WWE to be what the Rise and Fall of ECW DVD told them it was, and the actual broadcast of ECW wasn't what they wanted.

And, according to Sidious, it was at this time they started changing their goals around.

The roster was so weak Hardcore Holly was in an Elimination Chamber. Give that a minute or two to sink in.

Good point. He certainly doesn't compare to someone like Mike Knox or Vladimir Kozlov.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

This thread has gone a little off the tracks, really.

Why did they bring back ECW?? So Vince could have another show, to push/debut younger guys, and to make him money. It may have leaned a little more to the former since its initial debut, but thats becuase ECW sucks, as does Paul Heyman. It was always intended to have new fresh faces debuting, on the lowest tiered show. It does that, and has always done that, and done it well.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

This is getting extremely redundant. Ive already disproven everything you said throughout this thread, in one post or another. One more time I guess.

EVERY show was far edgier then than it is now. WWE has PG programming.

Like ive said, oh, three times now. He pushed it with house shows to create initial buzz to establish it as being serious. It didnt draw. Doesnt mean he wasnt intending it being what it is. Also, im fairly sure SD! and RAW used to have its own independant house shows and PPVs as well didnt they??

Do you honestly not understand that of course, he isnt going to say is true plans for the program on WWE.com?? Is he REALLY gonna come out and say "I couldnt give two shits about the "original ecw" and this is basically going to become our newcomer show"..its all part of the push. The PPVs the house shows, the statement of how totally awesome it was gonna be on WWE.com. You do know that WWE.com is a kayfabe website no?? You have been worked as badly as all of those guys were if you bought into all that, and take it seriously.

Well, I will agree with you on one thing, and that is you're correct in saying that it is getting rather redundant. Unfortunately for you, this is something you aren't getting the point from me on. So, you and I will have to agree to disagree on this topic.

By your logic, no evidence could be shown to you that would disprove your theory that Vince has always intended ECW to be what you see on TV today. If it comes out of Vince's mouth, then your point of view is "obviously Vince isn't going to let everyone in on his nefarious scheme."

Despite that, Vince had no reason to lie. He was very blunt in that article when he stated that "ECW was not going to be able to replicate the original ECW". Nor was I suggesting he ever had intentions of making it completely replicate ECW. However, he did state that it was still going to be an edgy product and an alternative to both Raw and Smackdown. ECW started out being just that under the WWE Umbrella. Until the fans rejected Bobby Lashley as the ECW Champion, and fans began to sour on ECW being a watered down version of the original ECW. Then, Vince became frustrated.

It's exactly as Slyfox pointed out. The ECW Fans of old were clearly expecting a complete return of the Original ECW, in it's truest form. Not a watered down version of ECW. Vince clearly did not do enough to communicate to the fans that this was not going to happen, and nor was he going to be able to meet their expectations.

Vince having the decision to make Bobby Lashley champion does nothing whatsoever to prove your case that he had ECW in mind all along to be a Training Show. What it proves is that Vince wanted to make a popular Black star, and he chose his newest Brand, the ECW Brand to try to do it on. How does that imply that he intended the whole entire show to be a Training Program to the extent it is today? It doesn't.

So to you, if it came from WWE's mouth that the vision of ECW was intended to be an alternative, edgy product, then WWE isn't being credible. Never mind the fact that Vince admitted it wasn't going to be exactly like the old ECW in that article.

Now, if Paul Heyman would make a comment that it wasn't Vince's intention to completely make ECW a Training Show, then your mentality would be "that is just Paul Heyman talking. Nobody listens to him."

If someone from outside WWE would say something contrary to what you think ... then your mentality would be "what do they know? They're not in the company and aren't privy to Vince's plans."

I've elaborated on my opinions and I have explained why I felt that way.

You have not proven your case. If you want your case proven, then you can show me something ... any link ... from a source within WWE that states that this was Vince's original plan, or produce an interview from someone within the company, or who used to be in the company, that suggests that Vince had ALWAYS intended ECW to be a Training Show, as opposed to simply being an edgy alternative and watered down version of the original ECW.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Sidious....

The WWE ISNT credible

ITS A FUCKING PRO WRESTLING COMPANY

the quote you showed, everything you have showed, have ALL been on a kayfabe website, and on television. He sold it, and obviously your buying it. What he says on TV, and his own website, have fuck all to do with what he is really planning. I have already elaborated about ten times as to why Bobby Lashley being a champion proves my point, and why the cast of characters proves my point.

The people ARENT privy to Vinces plans. and do YOU THINK Paul Heyman wouldve been wonderfully accepting of it being a developmental program?? FUCK no. It was Vinces plan, Vinces, baby, as is everything in the WWE.

I dont need quotes from fake websites to proove anything. I knew from DAY ONE that this is how they were gonna use it. And I watched it unfold.

 

[klunderbunker]

Vince recreated ECW so he could make it look this weak. Even when the show was in its beginning, he didn't treat it as anything special. It wasn't ECW, it was WWE's third brand. It was reported that Heyman booked December to Dismember for Vince's approval, knowing it would be awful. Sure they brought out the EC. If you put 6 newborn Canadian babies in the Elimination Chamber, it's an EC match. That doesn't mean it will sell. The big names on the roster at the beginning were Angle, Van Dam and Show. All main eventers, yes. All A-list main eventers, not even close. Angle was. Van Dam was a midcarder that was given the WWE title to trump up ECW and Show was sent there to give it more credibility. Compare the rosters to that or Raw or Smackdown. They're not even close. If someone actually believes Vince when he said it was going to ever be equal, even at the beginning, they're far less intelligent than they're given credit for. Vince may not have intended for it to be a training show, but he sure as hell wasn't building it up to be equal to the others. He certainly put a TON of effort into it once Van Dam was gone. Who did he replace him with? Lashley. An unproven guy that was moved to Raw within the year. That's really giving ECW equal footing.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

Sidious....

The WWE ISNT credible



the quote you showed, everything you have showed, have ALL been on a kayfabe website, and on television. He sold it, and obviously your buying it. What he says on TV, and his own website, have fuck all to do with what he is really planning. I have already elaborated about ten times as to why Bobby Lashley being a champion proves my point, and why the cast of characters proves my point.

The people ARENT privy to Vinces plans. and do YOU THINK Paul Heyman wouldve been wonderfully accepting of it being a developmental program?? FUCK no. It was Vinces plan, Vinces, baby, as is everything in the WWE.

I dont need quotes from fake websites to proove anything. I knew from DAY ONE that this is how they were gonna use it. And I watched it unfold.

Yep. You knew from Day One. You could clearly tell that this was what ECW was going to become after watching the very first episode.

Until you can produce something to the contrary, all you have is your opinion. And I have mine, and my common sense with what happened after December to Dismember ... and how they went from the WWECW that debuted in June of 2006, to the WWECW Minor Leagues we have today.

Keep in mind that even though you think the original version of ECW "sucked" ... and in my view the show did have it's share of good and bads, that there was a large percentage of fans that enjoyed a Hardcore, alternative product to Raw and Smackdown. Certainly would be drawing better than what today's ECW draws, that's for damn sure. Pretty pathetic that the #1 wrestling company like WWE actually has to compete with a minor league like TNA for ratings on one of their programs. Guess not that many people are interested in seeing a Minor League for WWE, huh?

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Vince recreated ECW so he could make it look this weak. Even when the show was in its beginning, he didn't treat it as anything special. It wasn't ECW, it was WWE's third brand. It was reported that Heyman booked December to Dismember for Vince's approval, knowing it would be awful. Sure they brought out the EC. If you put 6 newborn Canadian babies in the Elimination Chamber, it's an EC match. That doesn't mean it will sell. The big names on the roster at the beginning were Angle, Van Dam and Show. All main eventers, yes. All A-list main eventers, not even close. Angle was. Van Dam was a midcarder that was given the WWE title to trump up ECW and Show was sent there to give it more credibility. Compare the rosters to that or Raw or Smackdown. They're not even close. If someone actually believes Vince when he said it was going to ever be equal, even at the beginning, they're far less intelligent than they're given credit for. Vince may not have intended for it to be a training show, but he sure as hell wasn't building it up to be equal to the others. He certainly put a TON of effort into it once Van Dam was gone. Who did he replace him with? Lashley. An unproven guy that was moved to Raw within the year. That's really giving ECW equal footing.

it WAS though. Which is why it had the load of new guys, a uppe rmid card champion, and then proceeded to give a new guy a shot at running with the title. Sorta..just..like....now??? Yes. People always remember things better and bigger in retrospect.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Yep. You knew from Day One. You could clearly tell that this was what ECW was going to become after watching the very first episode.

Until you can produce something to the contrary, all you have is your opinion. And I have mine, and my common sense with what happened after December to Dismember ... and how they went from the WWECW that debuted in June of 2006, to the WWECW Minor Leagues we have today.

Keep in mind that even though you think the original version of ECW "sucked" ... and in my view the show did have it's share of good and bads, that there was a large percentage of fans that enjoyed a Hardcore, alternative product to Raw and Smackdown. Certainly would be drawing better than what today's ECW draws, that's for damn sure. Pretty pathetic that the #1 wrestling company like WWE actually has to compete with a minor league like TNA for ratings on one of their programs. Guess not that many people are interested in seeing a Minor League for WWE, huh?

actually I did. I found it rather obvious. That why im bewildred by someone who seems pretty intelligent, such as yourself, being worked by the WWE hype machine like this.

Common sense SHOULD tell you, as it tells me, that Vince could give two shits about ECW, "hardcore fans" or a type of wrestling that never made fuck all for profits. Your right, there IS a niche for it. That niche cant support a whole brand though, now can it??

It doesnt compete, Im fairly sure ECWs ratings beat Impacts ratings rather soundly most of the time.

And no, they arent very interest in the WWE minor leagues. Why would they be?? and what does that have to do with anything??

 

[klunderbunker]

In response to being able to tell from day one.

Let's take a look at the card from the first show on Sci-Fi. We start with a promo with RVD being handed the ECW title. Not winning it over another WWE guy to give the brand some credibility, but having it handed to him. Edge and Cena interupt. That tells me that it's not about ECW, but about WWE, taking away from the idea that ECW was truly back.

First match, Sandman defeats the Zombie. Right away, this kind of seals ECW's fate. It makes the show look silly. I get that it was on Sci-Fi, but come on. A character just called the Zombie? Give me a break.

Next up: Angle beats Justin Credible. Another WWE guy destroying another former ECW Champion in a matter of minutes. If you want to make Angle look dominant, don't crush an old ECW guy. If you want to kill ECW, why bring it back from the dead?

Main event is a battle royal for a match with Cena. Sabu wins. Ok, so instead of, oh i don't know, an ECW guy fighting for the ECW title at the PPV, let's have the ECW champion face a Smackdown guy and the other ECW guy face a Raw guy. GREAT sense there.

In total, two squashes, one over a character that was never seen again, and a battle royal for a chance to face a non ECW wrestler. Great show.

Based on just the first show, you knew it wasn't ECW. It was a third brand that was going to be made to look silly.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

actually I did. I found it rather obvious. That why im bewildred by someone who seems pretty intelligent, such as yourself, being worked by the WWE hype machine like this.

Common sense SHOULD tell you, as it tells me, that Vince could give two shits about ECW, "hardcore fans" or a type of wrestling that never made fuck all for profits. Your right, there IS a niche for it. That niche cant support a whole brand though, now can it??

It doesnt compete, Im fairly sure ECWs ratings beat Impacts ratings rather soundly most of the time.

And no, they arent very interest in the WWE minor leagues. Why would they be?? and what does that have to do with anything??

Well, it certainly didn't appear that way at all from watching ECW for the first several months. If Vince truly didn't care anything at all about the original ECW fans, he would have never resurrected the Brand, named it "ECW", and brought in the original ECW talent.

He kept the show somewhat edgy for several months until he gave up on it after December to Dismember.

So eventually, he did give up on them, and say "To Hell with them". But it was not the case, at first.

You have a Brand with the capability of drawing higher ratings than Smackdown. Why not take advantage of the audience that wanted to see an edgy product.

Vince didn't just make tiny changes to the show. He completely reversed course on it.

As far as ECW's ratings against Impact's ratings ... ECW typically does about a 1.1 and 1.2. TNA does about the same, although last week they earned a 1.3. They have beaten ECW a couple of times, which is pretty downright embarrassing to WWE.

I think it's best to end the discussion as we aren't getting anywhere with each other, and we each obviously have our own opinion on what happened.

In response to being able to tell from day one.

Based on just the first show, you knew it wasn't ECW. It was a third brand that was going to be made to look silly.

Fans were expecting it to duplicate the original ECW. Vince obviously didn't give them the memo that it wasn't going to be. However, that was not the point being argued. The point being argued was that Vince did not intend the show to be a Minor League show like it is today. It appeared as though it was going to be a third Brand, that had some edge to it, that was going to serve as an Alternative to Raw and Smackdown.

 

[klunderbunker]

You honestly believe Vince cared about ECW fans when he made the weekly show? No. He cared about the money the fans would give him when they saw the letters ECW. This was never about giving the fans something. He'd already done that at the original One Night Stand. That show was ECW reincarnated. That show was for the fans. Anything after that was all about the money. Tell me, how is Sandman caning a zombie edgy? He kept up a charade for a few months and gave us a bogus PPV to appease the fans, then pulled the plug.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

You sound like one of those maniacal bingo hall guys right now. Let the letters "ECW" go. they mean fuck all. Vince heard it being chanted, and knew he had a chance to start a new show, and merged the two. He gets his developmental show, and uses the name to drive up initial interest, then makes it what he wants.

ECW means nothing, all that shit is NOTHIIING. The originals, the matches, the "edgyness"...it was all just a pawn. To get the ball rolling on a new WWE brand, which is what it is now. A third, alternative, WWE program.