Why was this show created? I dont get it..

[Ambiguous Turd]

You honestly believe Vince cared about ECW fans when he made the weekly show? No. He cared about the money the fans would give him when they saw the letters ECW. This was never about giving the fans something. He'd already done that at the original One Night Stand. That show was ECW reincarnated. That show was for the fans. Anything after that was all about the money. Tell me, how is Sandman caning a zombie edgy? He kept up a charade for a few months and gave us a bogus PPV to appease the fans, then pulled the plug.

When I said that Vince "cared about the ECW fans", that was what I was referring to. He cared about the money those particular fans would give him.

No, I would never suggest Vince actually cares about "fans" personally. Or do them a favor by resurrecting ECW, just for the sake of doing so.

Vince is a businessman to the very end.

I've studied the product since 1990 and have seen the man work his magic since then.

Zombie, btw, was clearly a rib on Sci Fi network, as they had asked WWE to incorporate some sci-fi elements into their programming, since the Sci Fi fans were having a fit about WWE being on their network. That was why we saw Zombie (which was hysterical, btw ... I was actually there for that show) ... along with Ariel doing the tarot cards, Kevin Thorn, etc.

 

[klunderbunker]

So have I, and I know the way he works. Vince is indeed brilliant. However, there's no reason to believe he had any long term plans to make ECW stay as a legit third brand. Not a single one. He got the big payoff he was looking for with the PPV and the ratings were solid enough that he got a long deal from Sci-Fi. After he had what he wanted, why should he have kept putting effort into it when he was going to get ratings? He never was going to make it keep going at that rate long term.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

So have I, and I know the way he works. Vince is indeed brilliant. However, there's no reason to believe he had any long term plans to make ECW stay as a legit third brand. Not a single one. He got the big payoff he was looking for with the PPV and the ratings were solid enough that he got a long deal from Sci-Fi. After he had what he wanted, why should he have kept putting effort into it when he was going to get ratings? He never was going to make it keep going at that rate long term.

What this sounds like is that excuses are simply being made on why ECW as a Brand did not succeed.

If ECW as a Brand succeeded, then he would be running ECW House Shows and ECW Brand PPV's to this day.

Obviously, the entire concept of Single Branded PPV's failed, but that was because, in my opinion, that Vince treated Smackdown like crap and was incorrect in his vision of ECW. Nobody is going to argue that December to Dismember was a failure. Everyone admits that from in the company, and outside the company, that this was one of the Worst PPV's of all time. Heyman states his case that he was vehemently at odds with McMahon over the direction of the show, and was concerned that the fans were going to throw it back in their face. Vince insisted Heyman book what he told him to and revolve the show around Lashley.

Heyman actually wanted Punk in the match longer. Vince wanted him out first. Being that Vince is the boss, Heyman had no choice, but to book it Vince's way. Heyman submitted the script. Vince was pleased with it. When it all went down and fan reaction was completely sour to it ... did Vince try to shift the blame all to Heyman and blame him.

I respect Vince a lot, but the man has a lot of problem accepting criticism.

But getting back to topic, I am of the firm belief that if you treat a Brand like crap, or if you treat a Brand as Second Rate, then fans in turn are going to do the same.

But you have a chance back then when single Brand PPV's were running. Why throw it all away when you had a chance at making that Brand a true and viable Alternative Brand on par at least with Smackdown? It makes not a shred of sense. Which is why I am of the opinion that he tried it as a Watered Down ECW, wasn't able to pull it off because the fans soured all over it ... so in response, we get the show we see on Sci Fi today.

To say he never had any intention of the Brand being successful for the long-term was simply a stretch. But that is simply my opinion.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

it depends on you definition of success though. ECW is every damn BIT a success. The show is/was intended to get the new faces on TV, get them exposure in front of bigger crowds, and groom them by having them work with some of the best teacher/workers the WWE has. Thats what it does, and still thumps the competition in ratings. So, it IS a success.

 

[klunderbunker]

ECW did succeed. If it wasn't succeeding it wouldn't be on the air to this day. However, it's miles behind both of the other shows, which is no secret at all. Having Heyman on the writing staff was a waste. He was the only person that could make ECW work and he was completely handcuffed. The fans were loyal to it for awhile but soon they woke up. I love wrestling and WWE, but if I miss ECW, which I do more often than not, I couldn't care less. It's always been treated as a second rate show. When you say why try it, the answer is very simple: Vince knew there was at least a market out there for it. He figured if he put some ECW guys on the roster that Spike would pay him for a tv deal. He got that and then he let the show become what it is now. It was watered down at first because that's all it had to be.

 

[FromTheSouth]

I agree with NorCal. ECW exists, and always has, as purgatory between the big time and FCW. At the beginning, having some of the old guys around was a good idea to drive viewership. RVD's style led WWE to believe that he didn't have much left, and when you add that he is a wellness policy violation waiting to happen, he was the perfect poster child to start the company.

Having all those young guys around screamed out to the viewers that there is a young and up and coming class of athletes to carry the company. CM Punk has been World Champ. Morrison will be someday. Launching two guys is a win for a show that has an hour on Sci-Fi. Having Finlay around serves little more than getting young guys over. He beats up on older guys, and then loses to a younger guy, making the younger guy look better. Mark Henry, same idea. ECW has resurrected his career, but he is still jober to the stars. Putting a belt on him lets other guys get a bigger rub in the future.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

ECW did succeed. If it wasn't succeeding it wouldn't be on the air to this day. However, it's miles behind both of the other shows, which is no secret at all. Having Heyman on the writing staff was a waste. He was the only person that could make ECW work and he was completely handcuffed. The fans were loyal to it for awhile but soon they woke up. I love wrestling and WWE, but if I miss ECW, which I do more often than not, I couldn't care less. It's always been treated as a second rate show. When you say why try it, the answer is very simple: Vince knew there was at least a market out there for it. He figured if he put some ECW guys on the roster that Spike would pay him for a tv deal. He got that and then he let the show become what it is now. It was watered down at first because that's all it had to be.

Well, I miss ECW very frequently myself. Plain and simply for more than likely the same reasons you miss the show. Because it doesn't have content on it that interests you. Otherwise, you would watch it.

I suppose again, the idea of what the definition of success is, is in the Eyes of the Beholder. I would define "success" in keeping with what was perceived to be Vince's original vision of the Product, and that being a Third Viable Brand and Alternative to both the Raw and Smackdown Brands.

It is clear that ECW is for all intents and purposes, the Minor Leagues of WWE. That certainly isn't the direction I would have taken the show in, that's for sure. But that's beside the point.

One could look at it as being successful as simply if it is still on the air since its inception. That is setting the bar pretty low, and certainly doesn't sound like the Vince McMahon I know. But I suppose one could look at it that way. It is sad, though, when ECW and TNA actually runs neck and neck in ratings.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

I agree with NorCal. ECW exists, and always has, as purgatory between the big time and FCW. At the beginning, having some of the old guys around was a good idea to drive viewership. RVD's style led WWE to believe that he didn't have much left, and when you add that he is a wellness policy violation waiting to happen, he was the perfect poster child to start the company.

Having all those young guys around screamed out to the viewers that there is a young and up and coming class of athletes to carry the company. CM Punk has been World Champ. Morrison will be someday. Launching two guys is a win for a show that has an hour on Sci-Fi. Having Finlay around serves little more than getting young guys over. He beats up on older guys, and then loses to a younger guy, making the younger guy look better. Mark Henry, same idea. ECW has resurrected his career, but he is still jober to the stars. Putting a belt on him lets other guys get a bigger rub in the future.

Is introducing young talent on your least watched program really the best way to get them over? Wouldn't it in theory be better to spread the talent amongst the more watched programs, as opposed to putting them on a show that few people actually watch?

The problem people have with ECW is that it is not edgy like it used to be, but rather, it is a Bland boring show that is full of guys nobody has ever heard of, nor care about.

The problem that I have with a Minor League show is that ECW IS supposed to be the WWE. Again, in theory, guys should be trained enough in FCW, that by the time they graduate from there and actually get to WWE, they should be all set and ready to go. So in theory, it shouldn't matter which program talent gets put on at this point, once they get out of training.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Is introducing young talent on your least watched program really the best way to get them over?

Yes. Introducing them on the top shows is begging for them to fail. If you have a new guy cutting a promo, do you want him going after HHH or going after Ricky Ortiz? Introduce them in an area where they can show what they have, no how far behind the top tier they are.

Wouldn't it in theory be better to spread the talent amongst the more watched programs, as opposed to putting them on a show that few people actually watch?

Get them over with a few people before throwing them to the wolves. The President is a bad idea for someone's first job. Why not spend some time in the state house first?

The problem people have with ECW is that it is not edgy like it used to be, but rather, it is a Bland boring show that is full of guys nobody has ever heard of, nor care about.

Guys like Finlay and Christian? The problem with ECW is that it's on Sci-Fi. It, however, puts on quality matches and serves to get guys on TV so they can see where the need to improve. Confidence builder show, if you will.

The problem that I have with a Minor League show is that ECW IS supposed to be the WWE. Again, in theory, guys should be trained enough in FCW, that by the time they graduate from there and actually get to WWE, they should be all set and ready to go. So in theory, it shouldn't matter which program talent gets put on at this point, once they get out of training.

And there should be no stop in between? Seriously, these guys just need somewhere to watch themselves. They need to see what the crowd likes and doesn't. The top guys use it as a pitstop. Kofi was there for four months. CM Punk spent very little time there in teh grand scheme. Miz and Morrison are on all three shows, and can hold ECW together. There is no one in training that works as stiff as Finlay or as big as Mark Henry. Working with these guys helps them be ready for the bigs. Having this training on TV provides them with the most important reaction to their antics, the fans'.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

Yes. Introducing them on the top shows is begging for them to fail. If you have a new guy cutting a promo, do you want him going after HHH or going after Ricky Ortiz? Introduce them in an area where they can show what they have, no how far behind the top tier they are.

Complete distortion of what I'm saying.

No where did I imply that simply by someone debuting on one of the main shows, should he go straight for someone like Triple H or Edge.

Let's take Smackdown, for instance. Ever hear of Kung Fu Naki?

How about on Raw? Ever hear of Charlie Haas (now that Val Venis is gone)?

They can debut on the show with the lowest tier of talent. That way, they aren't being put in a program with a Main Eventer, and they are getting ten times more exposure than being on a Training Show.

Get them over with a few people before throwing them to the wolves. The President is a bad idea for someone's first job. Why not spend some time in the state house first?

Which is exactly what the concept of FCW is designed to do ... in Training Them ... and exactly what we have House Shows for.

Guys like Finlay and Christian? The problem with ECW is that it's on Sci-Fi. It, however, puts on quality matches and serves to get guys on TV so they can see where the need to improve. Confidence builder show, if you will.

Well, it's Hornswoggle who the Kiddies care about. Not necessarily Finlay. Before Hornswoggle came along, Finlay got very little reaction. The same would probably apply if they were to take Hornswoggle away.

Christian, obviously recently got put there. But as one can see from the Ratings from his debut 2 weeks ago, to his second appearance last week ... ratings did not increase with him being on the show. It was a good test to his draw on the lowest rated show to see if he would draw ... and he didn't.

It again goes back to my original premise of the argument. If you treat a brand like crap, then people will follow and treat that same brand like crap, as well.

And there should be no stop in between? Seriously, these guys just need somewhere to watch themselves. They need to see what the crowd likes and doesn't. The top guys use it as a pitstop. Kofi was there for four months. CM Punk spent very little time there in teh grand scheme. Miz and Morrison are on all three shows, and can hold ECW together. There is no one in training that works as stiff as Finlay or as big as Mark Henry. Working with these guys helps them be ready for the bigs. Having this training on TV provides them with the most important reaction to their antics, the fans'.

There is FCW to have these guys watch themselves. There are House Shows for these guys to be evaluated on by Agents. There are Dark Matches prior to Raw, Smackdown, and ECW for these guys to watch themselves on tape.

Now, they are getting ready to debut Superstars, which is also going to be yet another Minor League Show supposedly featuring talent people have not seen before.

So then, we'll have a combination of 3 brands/shows all doing the exact same thing. Training and Developing. It's overkill and a waste of resources.

WWE has enough talent that they should be using ECW to it's fullest potential, as a third viable Brand.

The training and developing should be reserved to:

1) FCW
2) House Shows
3) Dark Matches on TV
4) Superstars- since I am not under the impression this is going to be an actual Brand.

Ample platforms are given in WWE for training purposes, without making one of your three Brands a Minor League.