Why Razor Ramon and Not Scott Hall?

[THTRobtaylor]

Scott Hall is the one with the controversy... Razor wasn't.. Razor was the one in the ladder matches etc (Shawn induction no doubt)...

Scott blew a man's brains out and admitted it on TV, is a known addict and has had numerous other issues... Scott Hall in the HOF causes media interest of the negative kind... Razor Ramon may just go under their radar...

Scott Hall in the HOF raises the "Why not Benoit?" stuff again... rightfully so... Benoit never admitted killing anyone, it is just assumed he did... Hall has admitted it...

 

[MCMG]

Razor Ramon is the WWE/F guy so that makes sense. That is the gimmick he used while wrestling for the company. There is also the fact that the NWO can be inducted separately. They definitely deserve to be inducted: Hall, Nash and Hogan. They did so much for wrestling and we could argue if a WCW faction deserves to be inducted but I'd say this is a wrestling Hall of Fame. If Sting and Goldberg ever get inducted then the NWO definitely should have a spot.

 

[Mustang Sally]

My only guess that makes sense is WWE is saving Scott Hall for a future induction with Hogan and Nash as the NWO.

That makes sense, as it's an opportunity to induct individuals and a group that feature some of the same people. When you consider there are only a finite number of former wrestlers out there who can be brought into the Hall of Fame, it doesn't hurt to find a way to stretch things out. Of course, inducting fewer than six a year is another way.

As for the Razor vs. Scott question, consider that Hulk Hogan wasn't inducted as Terry Bollea, Fabulous Moolah wasn't honored as Lillian Ellison, and the Ultimate Warrior won't be inducted as Jim Hellwig, right? They were brought in by the names under which we knew them best in WWE....... and by following the same logic, it was under the name of Razor Ramon that Scott Hall enjoyed his considerable fame in WWE.

 

[hbkhhh44]

I cant believe some people are saying razor didnt do enough to be inducted. I can only assume u didnt watch the product at the time. He was consistently a top 5 draw. In fact often times u would go to a show during that time and he would be the main event draw/ top billed.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

When you consider there are only a finite number of former wrestlers out there who can be brought into the Hall of Fame, it doesn't hurt to find a way to stretch things out.

There isn't a "finite number", considering that WWE makes new stars every few years. And even so, the backlog they have for the Hall of Fame is unreal. There are over a thousand guys who could get in the Hall of Fame and WWE has been stalling for absolutely no reason.

There are so many announcers, wrestlers, tag teams, promoters, and pioneers that they haven't inducted. They will never fit them all in if they keep repeating guys and keeping the classes so small.

Razor Ramon is the WWE/F guy so that makes sense. That is the gimmick he used while wrestling for the company.

But it's not like Kerry Von Erich was inducted as The Texas Tornado, or Terry Funk as Chainsaw Charlie. When a guy is known by many names, they usually just induct him as himself. This is the first time they broke the pattern.

 

[bioshock]

Razor himself is good enough to be in the HOF, one of the best played characters in WWE history, and one of the few bright spots in a time when WWF didn't have many. When people think of Razor they mostly remember what he did with Shawn at WM10.

Razor was in the headline match for Survivor Series 92, main event for Royal Rumble 93, one of the most memorable feuds done on network tv with 1-2-3 Kid in 1993, his big matches with Shawn in 1994 at WM10, then his IC title matches with Diesel, besides the point of him keeping the IC on the map for years. And even then he had another classic with Shawn at Summerslam 1995.

Razor might of had the strongest 3 year run in the WWF without winning a WWF title, rivals at least Piper, Roberts, and Perfect for 3 year runs of guys never winning the belt.

 

[IT Factor]

The biggest reason is simple: Razor Ramon is a WWF/WWE creation and Scott Hall was a take on that same character once Hall went to WCW. WWE are bad at admitting people got over anywhere else but there and Hall is an excellent example of that. Plus, a lot of fans still remember Hall for his personal demons from the WCW era and how that impacted his career. Maybe WWE wants to distance themselves from any of that history, who knows? Or maybe it is Razor being inducted now so that either the Outsiders or the NWO as a group can be inducted later on.

 

[SharpShooter083]

Scott Hall is the one with the controversy... Razor wasn't.. Razor was the one in the ladder matches etc (Shawn induction no doubt)...

Scott blew a man's brains out and admitted it on TV, is a known addict and has had numerous other issues... Scott Hall in the HOF causes media interest of the negative kind... Razor Ramon may just go under their radar...

Scott Hall in the HOF raises the "Why not Benoit?" stuff again... rightfully so... Benoit never admitted killing anyone, it is just assumed he did... Hall has admitted it...

That is the most asinine thing I've ever heard. Benoit flipped out and killed his wife, son and then himself in a weekend of violent rage. ESPN did a piece on Scott Hall where it was revealed that Hall was working as a bouncer at the time and some guy pulled a gun on him and Hall simply defended himself. Two totally different scenarios

 

[Punk_Aries_Daniels_Bryan]

Scott Hall and the whole gimmick that was similar to Razor Ramon's was a very big controversy as he began to go to WCW. There was a lawsuit filed against him for doing that because Ramon didn't like the way he was going in the company and Eric offered him a much sweeter deal. McMahon having Ramon inducted is a pretty big deal and in either case as many other people have said, if the NWO gets inducted so will his gimmick.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I actually don't think it's the burying WCW or refusing to acknowledge his accomplishments in WCW. I think it's because of the fact that they are using the wrestler's theme songs for the video package, and the only memorable song outside of the nWo song, was his Razor Ramon song. His nWo song wouldn't be unique to him. So I think they showed a bunch of his Razor stuff and referred to him as Razor Ramon due to the fact that it went along with his song.

I think they are also going to induct the nWo into the hall of fame at some point and then they will use a lot of that footage. This way they don't have to use the same footage twice for him. I think that makes sense, since I get tired of seeing recycled shit.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

He is going in as Ramon now and when they induct the nWo in he will go in as Hall. I can't believe people can't grasp this.

"Vince burying WCW again."

LOL. People love to say that without an ounce of proof.

I don't get it. Razor Ramon was a good performer in WWE, not a GREAT one.

Uh.....what? Hall was great in the WWE and mediocre in WCW. The whole nWo thing was a great angle but Hall was so screwed up in WCW he could barely perform in a match much less a good one. Ramon vs HBK ladder match is a classic.

 

[Kermit]

I actually think it is smart. The Razor Roman character is just that, a character. They inducted his body of work as that character. So, if Scott Hall happens to relapse and goes down a dark path again, it looks better that the character itself was inducted and not the individual. Maybe it has nothing to do with any of that, but it seems like a nice small buffer plan by WWE if Hall were to turn to drugs again.

 

[FlairFan2003]

I dont see why Hall's entire career as a singles star, which stretches back to the mid 1980s, isnt being honored. Now personally I dont feel Hall is a HOFer but he's close, a strong argument can be made for his inclusion. That bid though, at least for me, includes all the work he did, his tag team work in the AWA (Didnt he team with Curt Henning and challenge or win the Tag Titles), his feud vs evil Col DeBeers, as well as his WWE run & NWO involvement. I doubt WWE would mention that his Cuban Razor Ramoan gimmick, as cheezy and silly as it was, basically was just an immitation of his very similar Diamond Stud character created in WCW though for historical purposes it should be acknowledged.

There is no real consistency here from WWE. When HBK was inducted his time in DX was mentioned & spotlighted as part of his induction. Likewise for Ric Flair and The Horsemen (who were inducted separately as a group later, making Flair a two time HOFer). Hulk Hogan's induction made reference to both his WWE & WCW periods including the NWO. It's widely assumed now that The Horsemen are in that DX & NWO will eventually be inducted also, even though HBK & Hogan are already in.

I cant even say Vince is spitefull towards WCW as he is still marketing their products, just releasing a 'Greatest PPV VOL 1' dvd last week. Plus, again, Hogan's induction was inclusive as was HBK's, both even mentioning their AWA days.

The Razor-only induction doesnt make sense when compared to Flair, HBK, & Hogan. His whole career, which was much longer than his 92-96 stint as R.R, actually might make him a HOFer. His Razor-only time however is not HOF worthy, a solid upper mid carder for a short period that never won a World Title.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

I just did a search on scott hall and what immediately popped up was "Scott Hall arrested", I think that's the main issue. If you search Razor Ramon, you don't get those results. It just seems like they're trying to avoid some of the other issues with hall.

 

[whoopin' ass]

I think it is Vince still screwing over WCW. Truth is, not sure if either name has a spot in the Hall Of Fame. Certainly the nWo should be but Razor didn't have that exceptional a career in WWF and Hall by himself didn't in WCW. Even look at everything Scott Hall did as a whole from being Big Scott Hall to Razor to TNA - long career but not really one that deserves being in the HOF. Should have waited and inducted him as part of the nWo instead as that was where he made his biggest impact.

 

[Saeros]

Never did I say Carlos Colon should be inducted either. Or Warrior for that matter. I'd say Hogan shouldn't have been inducted either but it is kind of hard to get around the 80 ' s boom and his being the biggest reason for it, but Hogan also had some legendary moments to go with his popularity.

What legendary moment does Razor or Scott Hall have other than one match with possibly the greatest in ring performer in history?

So two of the most popular and biggest stars the wrestling industry has ever seen according to you shouldn't be in the hall of fame?

Legendary moments of Scott hall/Razor Ramon

His match with hbk at wm10.
His involvement in the NWO
His ability to get over with a different type of crowd than of today by being a heel.
His ability on the mic and to play his character to perfection
Becoming the first 3 time ic champion
Becoming the first 4 time if champion.

It isn't all about the ability to put on a wrestling match. So tell me why shouldn't he be in the hall of fame?

Why shouldn't warrior? Why shouldn't hogan?

 

[HeenanGorilla]

Seriously, what did I just read here? Wrestling isn't a sainthood, if we wanted to base this whole induction on morals, then the "halls" of this esteemed, and yet to be physical institution would be QUITE empty.

In fact, you have someone who may very well have blood on his hands being inducted into the WWE Hall Of Fame, and that is one Carlos Colon. Not saying for sure that he had a hand in Bruiser Brody's death. But if you're going to rely on internet conjecture to justify your cause against Hall being inducted, then you better accept the fact that your stance will be challenged and that someone like Carlos Colon should also be a bold question mark in this equation, if you're going to give us that tough of standards as to why someone shouldn't be put into the hall of fame of WWE.

I'd say being a backstage shit stirrer and opportunist is a far cry from possibly having the hand in the death of a performer.

Think about that for a second.

To answer your first question of "Seriously, what did I just read here?", my answer to you would be "clearly, you read nothing". The guy you replied to said nothing about morals. He said that Scott Hall did nothing to better the business. He implied that he screwed WWF by leaving and helping form the NWO/give WCW the lead in the Monday Night Wars. And he said that he imploded WCW from the within. He also said that he had one great match (Ladder Match with HBK at WMX, presumably).

You can agree or disagree with any or all of those points. But, your rant on immoral Hall of Fame members was unfounded and pointless, in regards to arguing that writer's post.

Think about THAT for a second. Actually, take a little longer. You seem to be playing with an incomplete deck.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

That is the most asinine thing I've ever heard. Benoit flipped out and killed his wife, son and then himself in a weekend of violent rage. ESPN did a piece on Scott Hall where it was revealed that Hall was working as a bouncer at the time and some guy pulled a gun on him and Hall simply defended himself. Two totally different scenarios

Again, that is assumed rather than proven...

The point is more general and others have alluded to other HOF'ers with severe controversies that in many ways should bar them from a HOF.

Not buying into Colon having "a hand in Brody's death" as SirMarkhisface postulates, but he did continue to use Jorge Gonzalez... morally it's only an issue to friends of Bruiser and his family... most workers worth their salt blackballed the territory of their own free will. His going in is policitcal as they want his catalouge... pure and simple, most of the veterans in the business will smile and clap politely while the current crop will be told to...


Snuka is in there and has a civil judgement for the death of his girlfriend against him... that means a judge said he did it... same as OJ...

Verne Gagne had the brain of an 85 year old, same as Benoit... both killed someone, in Gange's case he choked out his resthome roomate, killing him.

Booker T. did time for Armed Robbery... the list goes on.

In Hall's inteview he did not even try and label it "self defence" that was perhaps the most unconfortable TV viewing in history, why? Cos even if the police called it Self Defence, Hall seemed to know otherwise... and couldn't help but say so... so of all of those, Hall has shown the most class in "fessing up" to what he did, whatever it cost him.

The decision is made rightly or wrongly, as for my Benoit comment being asinine... no, it's on the money... we have a rough idea of what actually happened, not the facts... we will never have those.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

Razor Ramon- the character- being inducted into the HOF is to me at once idiotic and disgraceful because surely Razor Ramon is not a real human being, Scott Hall is. Last I checked, movie actors get awards for being the real human being who was a movie actor and performed various "roles" for which he's being given the award. How absurd would it be to grant a fictional movie character with an award? Similarly, Scott Hall the person might have wrestled under "N" number of ring names, but for every contribution to the world of pro wrestling he was responsible for insofar as they've measured it, he deserves to go into the HOF AS Scott Hall and not as Razor Ramon. It's just disgraceful. And I'm pretty sure Scott is more popular as Scott Hall to the WWE Universe than Razor Ramon.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

According to a report from PWInsider.com, the reason they're inducting Razor Ramon instead of Scott Hall is because they want to induct Hall at a later date as a member of The Outsiders or as a member of the nWo. Vince is also said to just be extremely proud and fond of the Razor Ramon character, which is another reason why it's Razor Ramon instead of Scott Hall.

If this is accurate, then it's really just kinda sorta splitting hairs. It's not as if Vince sees Hall & Razor as two different people, he's not quite that crazy just yet, but he figures he can milk Hall's HOF future a little more by inducting him twice for each major chapter in his wrestling career.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

but he figures he can milk Hall's HOF future a little more by inducting him twice for each major chapter in his wrestling career.

I can't wait to see Mankind, Cactus Jack, Dude Love, The Ringmaster, Mr. USA, Faaroq and King Booker inducted at a later date.

Well, maybe that's not fair. All of those gimmicks were extensions of their characters. Faaroq never pretended he was different from Ron Simmons. And Mankind would take off his shirt and reveal Cactus Jack underneath. Booker T just put on a crown and called himself king.

I think Scott Hall is the first inductee to actually have two distinct characters that weren't linked to each other. Sure, Scott appeared on WCW saying he was a former WWF star and everyone knew he was Razor Ramon, but the link was never really alluded to on WWE TV. Once Scott Hall appeared on WWE TV, he was WCW and nWo's Scott Hall. He wasn't Razor Ramon.

I don't think any past inductee has had different Hall of Fame-worthy characters like Scott. I can think of a few future Hall of Famers who might though:
• Mike Rotunda (US Express) / IRS
• Fatu (Headshrinkers) / Rikishi
• Kane / Isaac Yankem

Okay, I'm just kidding on the last one. But how hilarious would it be if Kane was inducted as Isaac Yankem? I'd love to listen to his acceptance speech.

 

[SharpShooter083]

Again, that is assumed rather than proven...

The point is more general and others have alluded to other HOF'ers with severe controversies that in many ways should bar them from a HOF.

Not buying into Colon having "a hand in Brody's death" as SirMarkhisface postulates, but he did continue to use Jorge Gonzalez... morally it's only an issue to friends of Bruiser and his family... most workers worth their salt blackballed the territory of their own free will. His going in is policitcal as they want his catalouge... pure and simple, most of the veterans in the business will smile and clap politely while the current crop will be told to...


Snuka is in there and has a civil judgement for the death of his girlfriend against him... that means a judge said he did it... same as OJ...

Verne Gagne had the brain of an 85 year old, same as Benoit... both killed someone, in Gange's case he choked out his resthome roomate, killing him.

Booker T. did time for Armed Robbery... the list goes on.

In Hall's inteview he did not even try and label it "self defence" that was perhaps the most unconfortable TV viewing in history, why? Cos even if the police called it Self Defence, Hall seemed to know otherwise... and couldn't help but say so... so of all of those, Hall has shown the most class in "fessing up" to what he did, whatever it cost him.

The decision is made rightly or wrongly, as for my Benoit comment being asinine... no, it's on the money... we have a rough idea of what actually happened, not the facts... we will never have those.

Dude you can go on youtube right now and see the ESPN E60 Scott Hall documentary and he states that he and the other guy got into it in the parking lot of the place he was bouncing at and they were rolling around and the other guy "pulled a gun on me, I took it away from him and shot him, point blank with a 45 caliber." You can clearly see that was remorseful and it messed him up mentally, triggering his long history of drug and alcohol abuse. Either way according to Hall it was self defense and the case was dismissed as being just that.

As for the other guys you mentioned you have a point but I feel like in Hall's case he was just defending himself and he didn't do anything that anyone else would have done if their life was being threatened. Comparing him to Benoit isn't fair.

 

[thebarber]

It is the WWE Hall of Fame, not the pro wrestling Hall of Fame.
Sure they have inducted talent who never competed in WWE, but those who did have been inducted in their WWE names, few have been inducted using their real name. Im sure if Mike Rotundo ever gets inducted, he wont go in as Michael Wallstreet, he will go in as IRS.

 

[TempestH]

Tonight on Raw they announced the newest inductee into this years HOF is Razor Ramon.

The video package was exclusively Razor with no mentions at all of Scott Hall in WCW, him being the catalyst for the biggest wrestling story ever, No outsiders footage and so forth.

The man is way more known as Scott Hall than he is as Razor Ramon and I think to ignore the biggest part of his career is really odd considering WWE has cashed in with merchandise and DVDs acknowledging Scott Hall and the NWO, not to mention you can see it all right on the network.

Can someone please explain the logic to me in inducting him as Razor Ramon and ignoring the Scott Hall portion of his career in the HOF tribute video?

He's being inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame. His WWE achievements SHOULD take precedent. "Razor Ramon" is a WWE persona. "Scott Hall" is a WCW persona.