Did Razor Ramon Fail As A Heel?

[The Brain]

During the summer of 1992 fans of the WWF were introduced to Razor Ramon though a series of vignettes.

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These are just two of several. Razor Ramon looked like the real deal and it was pretty obvious he was going to make an impact. He did just that immediately jumping into feuds with the WWF’s top faces. Shortly after his debut Razor played a part in Ric Flair winning the world title from Randy Savage. Not many guys get a feud with a star the caliber of Savage upon entering the federation. Within a few months Razor was number one contender for the title and got a shot against Bret Hart at the Royal Rumble. Razor put up a good match but ultimately succumbed to the sharpshooter. After immediately feuding with the two biggest stars in the company Razor’s push was suddenly stalled. It would be reasonable to think Razor would get a high profile match at WrestleMania. Instead he got a filler match against Bob Backlund with no storyline. Even though he won the match it seemed like Razor deserved more at mania. Shortly after mania came the turning point. On an episode of Monday Night Raw a no name jobber scored a surprise upset on Razor. Razor was unable to avenge the loss in rematches and the fans seemed to not be taking him seriously anymore. He got into the King of the Ring tournament but not many saw him as a threat to Bret Hart in the first round after struggling against the jobber. Shortly before SummerSlam Razor grew to respect that no name jobber, now known as The 123 Kid, and in doing so earned the respect of the fans. The always hated Million Dollar Man berated Razor constantly taunting him about his losses to the Kid. Eventually the fans sided with Razor Ramon as he turned face just about a year after his vignettes debuted.

There’s no doubt Razor went on to have success as a face. He won four IC titles and was one of the most popular stars in the WWF for the next three years. Without diminishing his accomplishments as a face, I ask you did Razor Ramon fail as a heel. His vignettes and early feuds seemed to indicate that Razor was going to be a top heel for a long time. Why didn’t it happen? Was it something Razor was doing wrong? Did the creative team drop the ball? Did they simply feel he was better as a face? I only ask because I really liked the Razor Ramon character as a heel (I’m aware of the Scarface rip off and I don’t care). I enjoyed Razor’s time as a face. I just would have liked to see the heel run last a little longer.

 

[The 3nd is h3r3!!!!!!!!!!]

I think the best answer to this would be the creative team........... we have seen many times in the past and present that when the start to push a guy that has caliber they find another charismatic wrestler and drop the ball to the man......... I think razor was going to be a real deal heel of wwf with his bad ass look and gimmick and all the trash talking but it all faded down example of it being the series of loss to 1-2-3 kid.... we can think it may be a creative plan or any other thing but that loss made him look weak for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if he was in 2011 and lost to a jobber let us all imagine how serious will the audience take him??

The original plan of his heelish attitude failed so he was pushed as a face and got a lot of success!!!!!!!!!!!! so the moral of this is that his heel role failed a bit and was transformed into a face but i still think that his gimmick was better suited as a bad ass heel than a face!!

Anyways, that is just how feel it and just my two cents!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GameOver]

I don't think he did, he was great as a heel, pushed straight to the main event against Bret Hart for the title, but for whatever reason they dropped it and started pushing him as a face which was a boon for the WWF. He established himself as a big fan fav, multi time IC Champion and had alot of great fueds along the way b4 he finally departed to WCW.

giving him props Hall despite his personal demon's was a stand up guy who was more concerned with entertaining then being the number 1 guy so losing to 123 Kid wasn't a big deal to him.
that no doubt woulda had something to do with it.

Also can't recall exactly but i think they had a lot of big heels and not as many big faces back then which may have contributed.

Either way The Bad Guy - Razor Ramon, oooozing machismo, chico...... was cool was definately Scott Hall's finest hours.
listen to the Razor's theme from back then and play it against Stone Cold's 2nd 3:16 theme slowed down. hmmmmmm

 

[Tastycles]

The character was too good and Scott Hall was too charismatic to get over as a heel. First though, I think we need a little context. The story goes that the Hart feud happened largely because Warrior got sacked again and they couldn't run their original programme. Razor put in a decent shift as a heel, but I think he was too cool for the audience, and particularly the young male audience, not to like him.

I watched WrestleMania IX the other day, and it was clear that some of the audience were chanting his name and cheering when he won. As soon as that happens, a heel character is doomed. Maybe not after the attitude era, but in 1993 if you are getting cheered as a heel, you won't be in the main event. I genuinely believe that the next few months was just the company stalling to find an out and when they found one, they went with it and he grew as a face.

His character as a face was pretty much exactly the same, and I think the WWF just made an error in judgement of how much a young male audience would think that Razor was cool.

 

[thraxiusrex]

Scott Hall was my favorite pro wrestler from 1994 to 2001, so I'm kind of biased, but I believe that Razor Ramon was one of the first (if not archetypical) true "tweeners." My theory is that Razor's one was a precursor to the success of Stone Cold Steve Austin. I believe this because of how Razor became my favorite wrestler and why.

I had been a fan of wrestling from the first Royal Rumble (the televised one that Jim Duggan won) and stopped watching shortly after Wrestlemania 6. The Rumble hooked me and became one of my favorite elements of wrestling. My next exposure to the WWF was in the form of WWF Royal Rumble for Sega Genesis. I played it at a friend's house, and scrolled through the character select screen without knowing much about what was going on in WWF at the time.

I picked Razor Ramon because he was by far the coolest. I had no idea if he was a good guy or bad guy, had never seen him wrestle or heard him talk. For one, he looked the coolest, had a kickass name, and the music that played when you stopped on him was cool. As an adolescent boy, Razor Ramon was just a total badass. I didn't start watching wrestling again, but I did get a Genesis.

Fast forward to 1997 and me flipping through channels. I stop on TNT because some guy is getting gang-stomped by a bunch of guys in black t-shirts . . . and Razor Ramon. So I started watching wrestling again.

Anyway, Hall nostalgia aside, I think a lot of young men such as myself that make up the key demographics were drew to Razor in the same way as Steve Austin and even Randy Orton. If being a badass meant getting boo'ed by five year olds and old ladies, who cares?

If Razor was a failed heel, so was Steve Austin. Which is to say, "kinda."

 

[RicSpade]

Honestly at that point in time two things happened, one Razor dropped the scarface gimmick and became more suave and less cheesy which happens with a character a lot of the time, and two Razor being a top heel in the company losing to guys didn't really in turn hurt their credibility any, its like Evan Bourne beating Jericho in today's wrestling, Jericho has been a top heel for the last decade does it hurt Jericho at all? No because he has been a top main eventer for years. Another wrestler that comes to mind is HHH losing the IC title on Raw before In your House Final Four to an up and coming Rocky. HHH was one of thee top mid-carders in that point in time, did it hurt his credibility because he couldn't beat Rock back then? No not in the least even with the whole Kliq thing Hunter was and still is a top player.

Its just an evolution of the business guys go up and down look at Lex Luger before he jumped back to WCW went from Main eventer to tag team wrestler, Yokozuna same thing, Goldust too, sometimes you stay on top and sometimes your just shuffled

 

[Poop Master Flex]

In alot of ways Razor was the original Stone Cold. What I mean by that is Razor didn't really change his character but because he was so bad he became a face. Razor did his job so well that it came to a point where it was easy to like the guy even though he was a heel, this was one of those instances where the fans decided Razors future.

As some have already stated Razor Ramon was one of the first true tweeners of wrestling, he wasn't a good guy but the fans cheered for him anyways, Razor was so bad he was cool and thats why he got over as a face. The thing about wrestling is heel and face really depend on who they put you in the ring with the majority of the time, Razor went from fighting faces and when Ted Dibiase started making fun of him for losing to kid it gave Razor a reason to fight a heel, which automatically made Razor the babyface, even though he wasn't really a babyface, he was a heel who fought other heels and because he fought other heels, he became face.

To answer the original question No, Razor didn't fail as a heel, if Razor failed as a heel then so did Austin.

 

[The Crock]

He didn't fail as a heel, so much as he succeeded as a face. His character was so liked by the fans that they cheered him, a bit like we saw with Randy Orton before his turn. Ramon was a revolutionary type of character and his heel actions weren't despicable, they actually ranged on the "cool" side of the spectrum. People thought he was entertaining. I mean, it wouldn't have made sense to shove him down the fans' throats as a heel, when as a face he would go on to have that much success. It was certainly not a failure, no way, it was just an adjustment. The WWF knew that either way, heel or face, Razor Ramon would basically accomplish the same thing. His character was that of a "bad boy," even as a face he was treading the line between heel or face, he was basically a tweener. Much like Steve Austin some years later, the fact that he wasn't in the regular face mold, the fact that his character was so outside the box, that's what made him so good. You can't fault Scott Hall for the way he played the character, because he was a good heel, the problem was that the fans wanted someone like Razor Ramon, they had been wanting an edgy character, so they cheered him on. So, while it wasn't a raging success, it wasn't a failure either.

 

[Lucha-Libre is wrestling]

I always loved the Razor Ramon heel character, Scott Hall played it well and he drew massive heat, I always believed that the Razor Ramon character was ahead of its time. Scott Hall Promos were limited do to him not knowing how to speak Spanish, he only use catch phrases from Scarface. I always thought that Carlito Colon JR could had taken the Razor Ramon heel character farther than Scott Hall did, if the WWE would had merged it with the Carlito Brigante character from the movie Carlito's Way.

 

[Wilson]

I always loved the Razor Ramon heel character, Scott Hall played it well and he drew massive heat, I always believed that the Razor Ramon character was ahead of its time. Scott Hall Promos were limited do to him not knowing how to speak Spanish, he only use catch phrases from Scarface. I always thought that Carlito Colon JR could had taken the Razor Ramon heel character farther than Scott Hall did, if the WWE would had merged it with the Carlito Brigante character from the movie Carlito's Way.

That's a cool idea, I think carlito could've done a good take of Benny Blanco from the bronx too! He already had that young punk attitude.

Has anyone else been following Last Call with scott hall ?

 

[risephoenixrise]

No heel ever fails if he goes over. And he was definitely over. He was given a lot of heat during his program against Randy Savage and Curt Hennig. He was so over, that the fans appreciated his work after the program with the 1-2-3 Kid. At that point, it made sense to turn him face. But Scott Hall is the kind of wrestler that is likeable, but can do his role and get the right fan reaction at his will. I've seen audiences boo the hell out of him, and I've seen fans praise his work.

At any time, if fans pay money to see a wrestler--whether to see him lose, or to win--it's working. Razor Ramon was the whole time he was in WWF. It's a testament to the work of Scott Hall.

 

[MancMark]

I absolutely agree with whoever it was who said that Ramon was too cool in the eyes of the young male audience back then to be a heel. People wanted to see him be a dick in the end. It's a similar thing that TNA are trying to do with the Anderson "asshole" gimmick. Hall worked hard on the Razor character and was ultimately rewarded by getting over big time. I don't think he failed as a heel so much as succeeding in being a face.

And to whoever asked the question, yes I follow Last Call with Scott Hall religiously. It is my bible.

 

[Austinfan87]

i dont think he failed so much as back then it was so hard not to like him. He was too cool not to like

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

From time to time, heel characters are so good at what they do, organic face turns follow. Steve Austin, Randy Orton, some nWo guys (Wolfpack, mainly). It happens.

However, I don't see that as a failure. It's just progression. Razor worked as a heel, and the people ate it up. So much in fact, that he turned face. As a child, Razor was one of the first heels I actually liked. I was rooting for him at WrestleMania IX, mainly because I had no idea who Backlund was (at that point in time). Razor was a big, tough bastard, and easy to cheer for.

Bret Hart, in 1993, was easily my favorite wrestler. During his match at the Royal Rumble with Razor, I remember cheering for both guys, and that was odd. I never cheered for anyone on the same level with Bret Hart, but Hall was too good to boo. His face turn didn't bother me, because I barely knew it happened. The whole thing with 1-2-3 Kid showed Razor had a heart, and wasn't totally evil. That's a big deal to kids, and a huge part of his getting over even more.

It wasn't a failure, because it was organic. When something like that happens, you have to listen to the crowd, and roll with the punches. There's really no avoiding that.