Why NXT Talents Won't Work on the Main Roster

[MC_Live]

This may seem a bit trolly of a title, but it's actually a decently fair point I'm going to make.

Look at the evidence so far. How many NXT talents are making an impact when they debut? Why not? Vince McMahon and his ego! We all know that if it's not a Vince McMahon idea, it won't be given a chance. See: Ryder, Zack. And since Vince doesn't have a lot to do with NXT or the superstars on the NXT roster, I fear Vince's ego will get in the way of their success.

I'm counting NXT Talents as the talents who were featured on the NXT program after the FCW rebranding in June 2012, and debuted on the main roster after. Look at the proof. Adam Rose, Big E (Langston), Bo Dallas, Xavier Woods, and Emma are all examples of big NXT names, who have flopped on the main roster. Why? Because none of them were Vince McMahon ideas. They were all characters given to Vince McMahon. While Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns were on NXT, Dean Ambrose wasn't on NXT until after the Shield debuted. And the Shield doesn't count here, because that wasn't an NXT creation. The Shield debuted on a WWE show, which means Vince had a heavy hand in it's creation.

Of course there are exceptions to every rule. Summer Rae, while not having a big impact on WWE TV, is a big factor of Total Divas. Paige has had a significant impact with her title reigns and feud with AJ. And the Wyatt Family and Rusev have some steam behind them. But even with these examples, none of them have made really big impacts yet. Obviously the Divas division is viewed as almost useless, and the Wyatt's have had sloppy points in their short history. So even the ideas that work aren't completely successful right now.

So, is it too early to call the talents on the roster failures? Is Vince McMahon's ego an obstacle for future NXT superstars, seeing as he doesn't come up with their characters? Will they all need new, Vince McMahon created characters to succeed? Will Triple H, the main force behind NXT, be enough of a force behind the scenes to propel NXT talents forward? Will we ever see a Guns n' Roses reunion? (Ok, maybe that last question is irrelevant) Sound off. Will NXT stars like Steen, KENTA, Devitt, Neville, Zayn, and the others have a chance as long as Vince is around?

 

[THTRobtaylor]

First off Ambrose DID wrestle in NXT... as did all of the Shield, indeed Roman had the dubious honor of being Leakee...

Their success was more to do with them being the first guys to really "step up" officially from NXT and while Vince may have helped shape the Shield gimmick, these were Trips' boys and in the main it has continued with all NXT talents being given a fair an appropriate spot.

What is more likely is that Vince and Trips have different ideas of guys and gals rightful place on the roster... Emma for example is easily a match for AJ, but Vince saw her more as a comedy partner for Santino. Xavier Woods may have felt he was destined for great things, Trips may have agreed, but Vince perhaps saw him as lower mid only... likewise guys like Big E. and Bo Dallas not catching in the way you'd expect. Is it cos they failed? Is it cos Vince got it wrong or Trips got it wrong? It's neither...

When you're changing out talent in the way WWE is doing, not all are gonna hit at the same time or find their niche immediately. The Shield and Wyatts were manufactured by all concerned to hit big off the bat, Rusev has also been tooled this way. But with one champion not on screen and only really the 2 mid card titles, you can't get everyone there at the same time... some have to take longer, the back burner and arguably that is where some of Vince's perceptions may come into play.

This isn't a new thing, Vince famously didn't want to hire Austin, Foley or Simmons but had to be talked into it by JR, who was doing the same thing Trips does now. Trips sees the talent, but Vince is still the filter and it has to get over in a way that makes sense to the "audience of one" or it'll be slowed or stopped... Guys like Zack Ryder, Bryan, Ambrose... more recently Bray... if you're getting over in a way that wasn't planned or controllable, Vince has no problem turning down your heat or even backburnering it.

Guys coming up with their own stuff is encouraged, but it has to fit the overall plan. It's why guys like Bray were given better than guys like Zack, who basically went into business for himself for real on Youtube...sure they now use his format for most of their videos etc... but doesn't mean HE gets the push or the credit... They think Bray is getting "too face", put him against the new burgeoning face and let the fans pick which one they really want, cos they can only have one...

Those are more the things Vince would be looking at rather than "not coming up with their name", indeed the new tradition seems to be talent choosing their own within reason. Vince is smart enough to know not to dig his heels in over gimmick or name or to dismiss any talent... His company is there today cos guys balked at Reginald Dupont Helmsely, The Ringmaster and Mason The Mutilator and came up with better themselves.

 

[Navi]

Some of the NXT talent has done fine. The Shield, Rusev, Daniel Bryan, Wade Barrett, Heath Slater and some haven't. Not everyone is going to hit it big.

Bo Dallas suffers in my opinion from looking too much like his brother. Plus when you look at a Roman Reigns, Dallas just doesn't cut it. Adam Rose was brought up with the wrong gimmick. If they had left the Lex Lugar gimmick in place he'd be fine.

Even Paige struggled, her anti-diva persona that go her over at NXT was nowhere to be seen when she hit the main roster. Now she seemed to have settled down, but they should have her not trading titles back and forth with AJ.

Emma is in fact a good wrestler for a woman. Her problem though was being put into a loser comedic jobber gimmick with Santino, who subsequently retired. She still could have gone places but decided that stealing an IPad cover was better than paying for it. So yea, haven't seen her around in awhile.

Bray Wyatt was used totally incorrectly. He is not that great in the ring, Harper and Rowan were much better. Wyatt should have stayed outside as a manager type and only got involved once in awhile. That's why that whole gimmick failed, he just lost too many times to better people. Putting the Ascension with him might doom them to failure as well. Not happy about that.

Wrestlers like Sami Zayn and Adrian Neville should fair better. Both are high flyers and have very unique moves that can get them over with the fans. it remains to be seen though. Last time they were on the main stage, the fans loved them and they put on a good show. Seeing them week in and week out though might be a game changer.

I also expect Steen, KENTA and Devitt to do very well. They are established stars on the indy circuit and all three come with great pedigree's. I can't wait still they get called up.

 

[MC_Live]

First off Ambrose DID wrestle in NXT... as did all of the Shield, indeed Roman had the dubious honor of being Leakee...

Rollins and Reigns (aka Leakee) were on NXT. Ambrose was in FCW, but as far as I know, he wasn't on NXT (the rebranded FCW) until post Survivor Series 2012. And to that point, the Shield wasn't on NXT as a group until post Survivor Series.

I'm talking NXT as a developmental territory. Not FCW, or "Reality/Game Show" whatever that was NXT. I'm talking NXT, June 20th, 2012 on just for clarity.

 

[Darkshadow1234]

Some of the NXT talent has done fine. The Shield, Rusev, Daniel Bryan, Wade Barrett, Heath Slater and some haven't. Not everyone is going to hit it big.

Bo Dallas suffers in my opinion from looking too much like his brother. Plus when you look at a Roman Reigns, Dallas just doesn't cut it. Adam Rose was brought up with the wrong gimmick. If they had left the Lex Lugar gimmick in place he'd be fine.

Even Paige struggled, her anti-diva persona that go her over at NXT was nowhere to be seen when she hit the main roster. Now she seemed to have settled down, but they should have her not trading titles back and forth with AJ.

Emma is in fact a good wrestler for a woman. Her problem though was being put into a loser comedic jobber gimmick with Santino, who subsequently retired. She still could have gone places but decided that stealing an IPad cover was better than paying for it. So yea, haven't seen her around in awhile.

Bray Wyatt was used totally incorrectly. He is not that great in the ring, Harper and Rowan were much better. Wyatt should have stayed outside as a manager type and only got involved once in awhile. That's why that whole gimmick failed, he just lost too many times to better people. Putting the Ascension with him might doom them to failure as well. Not happy about that.

Wrestlers like Sami Zayn and Adrian Neville should fair better. Both are high flyers and have very unique moves that can get them over with the fans. it remains to be seen though. Last time they were on the main stage, the fans loved them and they put on a good show. Seeing them week in and week out though might be a game changer.

I also expect Steen, KENTA and Devitt to do very well. They are established stars on the indy circuit and all three come with great pedigree's. I can't wait still they get called up.

Good points

Its hard to say if steeen, kenta or devitt will do well. Kenta isnt doing well in NXt.

Emma forget to pay for her ipad or it was a mistake. She didnt steal it.
She used the self checkout

 

[The Samoan Heritage]

I've realised this too, let's look at a couple of NXT up comers

Rollins/Reigns- major success
Wyatt- let's be honest, though he has feuded with Cena(and Bryan top faces) he hasn't accomplished anything of importance since coming to the main roster.
Paige- (IMO) she only became champ because of Naomi's injury. After coming to the M.R. Wwe hasn't even mention her Anti-diva gimmick (to my knowledge) and now has her playing a over used gimmick in the divas division.
Big E Langston- MITB/World champ's and GF's body guard. (Another NXT upcomer that Vince/Wwe ignored the gimmick that got him over) After winning the IC title and getting pushed for 3 or 4 weeks he's now just another black jobber. Even though the IC title doesn't mean much (IMO) becoming IC champ means hes has been more of a success then Bray
Emma- why did Vince/creatives decide to keep Emma's weird/ridiculous gimmick but not Paige's is beyond me, it was bound for failure. (I fear for Bailey once she comes to the M.R)
Rusev-can thank Swagger/Colter for getting him over (vice-versa too)-A success
Bo Dallas/Adam rose- Failures (put Bo in a team and Repackage Rose)

What's the point of having their wrestler get used to playing a gimmick and then once they come up change it? Also how does the ridiculous gimmicks survive (Fandango, Emma, Rose, Dallas) but gimmicks that can possibly be a hit gets changed (Big E, Paige, possibly the Accension now)?
Vince isn't going anywhere for a while, so Zayn, Neville, Balor and Co. Better step up their game big time once they get to the M.R., or hope that Vince looks at Ambrose and Rollins success and believe that they have a chance to make a similar impact.

 

[OYDK]

I've realised this too, let's look at a couple of NXT up comers

Rollins/Reigns- major success
Wyatt- let's be honest, though he has feuded with Cena(and Bryan top faces) he hasn't accomplished anything of importance since coming to the main roster.
Paige- (IMO) she only became champ because of Naomi's injury. After coming to the M.R. Wwe hasn't even mention her Anti-diva gimmick (to my knowledge) and now has her playing a over used gimmick in the divas division.
Big E Langston- MITB/World champ's and GF's body guard. (Another NXT upcomer that Vince/Wwe ignored the gimmick that got him over) After winning the IC title and getting pushed for 3 or 4 weeks he's now just another black jobber. Even though the IC title doesn't mean much (IMO) becoming IC champ means hes has been more of a success then Bray
Emma- why did Vince/creatives decide to keep Emma's weird/ridiculous gimmick but not Paige's is beyond me, it was bound for failure. (I fear for Bailey once she comes to the M.R)
Rusev-can thank Swagger/Colter for getting him over (vice-versa too)-A success
Bo Dallas/Adam rose- Failures (put Bo in a team and Repackage Rose)

Give me a friggin break. I'm trying to find SOMETHING in this argument that I agree with. So everybody who's worth a shit in the WWE today got their big break because of somebody else? And BIG E is the talent that WWE missed out on ? Big E... Really?

First of all WWE DID let Big E get over with his original gimmick, if you don't remember he WAS the IC champ. But I can honestly say, his IC title run was one of the worst EVER, and that can partially be blamed on his booking but a lot of the blame falls on him as well. After he stalled, they tried to give him the stick ... and he sucked. Big E is exactly where he needs to be right now... improving. DUD

Now to the meat of the subject. Well I did find something that I agree with you on; Rollins and Reigns are huge successes and are on their way to the top of the company. But that's about all I agree with you on. First of all, when you refer to Wyatt, you completely contradict yourself. You say that Wyatt hasn't accomplished anything of importance, and than you say he's feuded with the two top faces in the company (not to mention a legend like Chris Jericho), that's REALLY important in my book. He has been at the top of the card since last year, and is the most intriguing character in the WWE right now. You also say Big E is "ahead" of Wyatt based on his IC title win... Oh lord. Let's just say Wyatt will be a key fixture in the dub for many years to come. Not a dud

Paige is one of the top two or three Divas on the roster right now that are head and shoulders better than the rest, and is booked like it. 2 time Divas Champion in 6 months. If Big E's IC title run is so important, why not mention Paiges two? Paige is going to be remembered as one of the best Divas of this era eventually, but let's not let logic get in the way here... Not a dud

Rusev is still over while Swagger has basically done nothing since. I would say Rusev is the one who got Swagger over. Not to mention, the guy's been quietly unpinned for the past 7-8 months and has had a program with The Rock. Not a dud

I wouldn't call Bo Dallas a failure as he seems to still be getting some big wins and the crowd loves him. Is he going to be World Champion anytime soon? No. But that does not mean he is a failure; in fact he was briefly involved in an IC title feud. Not a dud (yet)

Adam Rose is just a DUD..

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Terrible argument. The fact of the matter is that there are only so many spots and so many chances talent will get. I'd say more NXT talent has gotten opportunity and found success in the past few years than I remember new guys from the last 10 years.

If anything I would argue that guys like Zayn, Steen, Balor, and Kenta may stick in NXT longer than expected. Not because Vince has a monster ego bit because the Network is rolling out in the UK, Ireland, and Japan eventually and the Network can be the exclusive place for fans to see those guys. If they show up on Raw as well, some fans may not have as much incentive to pay $9.99 per month to see them.

But keep assuming Vince and HHH are these huge ego maniacs. It is exactly what they want you to think of them.

 

[GeminiGarlord]

I agree, that most of the nxt guys that are brought to raw are heavily misused and end up jobbing fairly quickly.

They really shouldn't bring so many people from nxt to their b show, it would only end hurting nxt and most of the guy's popularity.

 

[Navi]

Good points

Its hard to say if steeen, kenta or devitt will do well. Kenta isnt doing well in NXt.

Emma forget to pay for her ipad or it was a mistake. She didnt steal it.
She used the self checkout

Sorry but you don't forget to pay for your IPad, please don't give me that shit. I use self check outs all the time, and never forget to pay for anything. That's where security is the tightest, with people and camera's watching every move you make. There is also someone there that you can ask if you don't know what your doing. So right, it was a mistake, one that probably will cost her plenty.

 

[Darkshadow1234]

Sorry but you don't forget to pay for your IPad, please don't give me that shit. I use self check outs all the time, and never forget to pay for anything. That's where security is the tightest, with people and camera's watching every move you make. There is also someone there that you can ask if you don't know what your doing. So right, it was a mistake, one that probably will cost her plenty.

We may never know the full story. IJs

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Yeah...I'm not really seeing the validity of the argument. It's not as if there hasn't been a good amount of talent who've made it to the WWE main roster who've come out of FCW/NXT, names of which have already been mentioned. As others have also mentioned, there's only so many spots available on the main roster. It truly would be a waste bringing someone up to the main roster and...what...just have them wait around doing nothing?

Not every wrestler who comes up from developmental is going to be the next big thing, it's just not remotely feasible in any situation. Anyone who thinks otherwise has far, far too grand of expectations or is being a troll just for some sense of satisfaction they derive from crapping all over everything.

 

[DCLXVI]

I guess it's kind of irrelevant because stealing is stealing - but I thought she stole an iPhone or iPad case, not an actual iPad?

Anyways...

There have been "WWE developmental" guys for a long time. The Rock and Mark Henry were their first. They just have a better system/training facility now. The NXT arena is like a mini WWE set up with the tron, lighting, etc.

Everyone has pretty much given names of fresh up-and-comers out of NXT etc... but I guess this thread is more about "Will Vince trust Triple H and will he use them correctly or at all". This has its merit, as Vince is on up there in age and HHH has a much more modern eye for talent - your Steens, Zayns, Kentas... people Vince wouldn't scout in a million years. I think he is slowly realizing guys don't have to have muscles coming out of their ears and be 7 foot tall to get over.

I think it's completely wrong to say NXT guys won't work on the main roster because you have guys who have gotten huge - say a Daniel Bryant - that looked like an average guy and relied mostly on good wrestling. I don't even think most people view Bray as an "NXT guy"... nor do they view the Wyatts or the Shield guys as being "people who came from NXT". A lot of them come from years of international wrestling/indies anyway and are really just taught to wrestle "the WWE way" and get polished. The NXT divas are miles ahead of the divas right now on main roster... but I guess that whole division is a joke/way to promote a show on E! in the WWE.

Can you imagine if McMahon was the one developing and choosing talent at this point? Triple H and Regal are the ones scouting/signing these guys. I think they know a good wrestler or potential when they see it.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Good God.

Anytime anyone is about to say "Vince doesn't want this *insert idea, story, character, wrestler* to succeed" you make an ass out of yourself.

1) If something fails, Vince doesn't make money. He wants everything to succeed, regardless of who's idea it is. Success means money.
2) Sometimes things just fail. WWE tries, the wrestler tries, it just fails.
3) If he REALLY didn't want someone to succeed....why pay them and have them on the roster?


This furthers my thought that the real marks are the IWC who think Vince/HHH/etc are their actual characters. In the last few years we've had a long CM Punk title reign, Daniel Bryan beating evolution at Wrestlemania, and a Seth Rollins/Dean Ambrose main event. Give it up.

NXT is separate because they need work, they need a slot to fit. Kris Bryant is the best minor league player. He didn't play for the Cubs last year because he wasn't quite ready, they didn't have a spot, and their season was already lost so it didn't make sense to call him up. Theo Epstein didn't have some plot against Bryant. There is no plot against NXT guys. It's just that there is only so many slots on the regular roster.

Plus it's good to keep them separate. NXT only runs Florida. No long travels. Guys can get in the gym, in the practice rings, get advice, etc and hone their skills better.

Lastly, think of this. Google search the NXT facility. Just imagine how much all that shit cost to buy and now maintain. If Vince were REALLY that against it, why would he have forked over so much cash? Some of you sound like 6 year old marks from the 90s. Only now, you believe their real life persona matches the persona the dirt sheets wants you to believe as opposed to say, HBK throwing Janetty through a window.