Why is Ziggler STILL Being Buried?

[lowandmighty]

I think Ziggler is still being buried because he's midcarded. Nobody else on the roster has the same air of midcardation that Ziggler has.

I think wwe has seen the light and have given up on him. Ziggler would make a good TNA wrestler. In the mid card of course. I wanted to say he could replace Jeff Jarrett but then I thought;... No what the hell am I thinking!? must be the peroxide hair or something.

After Mania? He might be put in a squash match to boost someone else's reputation to give them a solid win over a former champion and then fade away into obscurity.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Ziggler is one the top 3 all-around full-time stars in WWE today. He's not being pushed because of politics and how outspoken he is about his frustrations in WWE. Vince and Triple H are both vindictive ego-maniacs and because of their personal dislike for Ziggler, odds are he will never get anything near a main event push again. If he's lucky they might give him a run with the WWE Tag Team Championship or the United States Championship, but unfortunately Ziggler will almost certainly never be allowed to touch the WWE World Heavyweight Championship, despite being more talented than 99.9% of the WWE roster.

One problem with your argument:- C.M. Punk!

Punk has expressed disdain for some things in the company. He got in trouble for not wearing a suit backstage and answered back Undertaker when confronted about it. He also bagged Triple H and Rock on-air (and those were his real feelings) and now he is so dissatisfied, he has walked out on WWE.

But, even if his walkout was a shoot, if Punk returned to WWE tomorrow, he would still be pushed, and put on the WMXXX card. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin showed his feelings about the company with his many walkouts, yet still got looked after.

If you sell PPVs and can generate fan interest, you can disagree and still get pushed. Hell, Randy Orton is champion, and few have done more to embarass WWE backstage than him.

Dolph is being depushed because he doesn't tick enough boxes to sell PPV buys. End of story. Daniel Bryan is as good a wrestler as Ziggler, and fifty times more over.

 

[Sabutage]

One problem with your argument:- C.M. Punk!

Punk has expressed disdain for some things in the company. He got in trouble for not wearing a suit backstage and answered back Undertaker when confronted about it. He also bagged Triple H and Rock on-air (and those were his real feelings) and now he is so dissatisfied, he has walked out on WWE.

But, even if his walkout was a shoot, if Punk returned to WWE tomorrow, he would still be pushed, and put on the WMXXX card. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin showed his feelings about the company with his many walkouts, yet still got looked after.

If you sell PPVs and can generate fan interest, you can disagree and still get pushed. Hell, Randy Orton is champion, and few have done more to embarass WWE backstage than him.

Dolph is being depushed because he doesn't tick enough boxes to sell PPV buys. End of story. Daniel Bryan is as good a wrestler as Ziggler, and fifty times more over.

I agree in general, if you make WWE money then they can forgive almost anything. The only thing with using that argument against Ziggler is I dont think Dolph has proven if he can make them money long term one way or the other. Its possible that with the right storyline and confidence in him he could make the step up to Raw main eventer. For example, his recent promo was a wwe.com video, if it was in the middle of the ring on raw, it could have had a larger impact and kickstarted something already.

And with Daniel Bryan we still don't know if he will be a success as a long term unified champion, right now people are behind the chase for the title, supporting him after he's reached the top is a different story. He'll need WWEs support to stay at the top, just like Dolph needs it to get there. I think if the WWE machine was truly supporting Dolph he could be built as a credible champion, then see what happens, but at least give him the opportunity.

 

[ADLegend21]

Aren't they building him and Miz as two frustrated guys who team up to take out their frustrations on everyone? Miz was interrupting commentary, interrupting the App, and Ziggler was cutting promos on backstage fall out and the app venting and they both have had wins due to people interfering with their opponents. He's being "buried" to make us feel for his character after having his push ruined by injury, being beaten up after matches by heels, put in stupid gimmmick matches like the battle of cleveland as a joke, etc. He and Miz are probably gonna be the next thorn in the side of the Authority after the Daniel Bryan payoff ala awesome truth in 2011 when they did that MASTERFUL Hell in a Cell interruption and beat the hell out of Punk, Del Rio, and Cena.

Also that "He hates Cena so there's heat!" is bullshit. In the championship Ascension ceremony at the slammy's Cena was listing guy's he put over and Ziggler was one of them. If ANYONE could've legit buried Ziggler it was Cena and he did the opposite cuz he and everyone else knows Dolph is great. Shawn Michaels at one point wanted to pass on Sweet Chin Music to him (According to Big Show in an interview on Wrestling with Rosenberg) If that isn't high praise I don't know what is.

Edit: went back tot he interview for proof and it wasn't Shawn specifically but Show says a lot of guys in the back wanted him to get it and turn baby face Here's the quote:
http://youtu.be/hlrTxtdtOlI?t=12m3s

 

[kumarjtk]

ziggler is a best heel with a lady manager. he is like edge type character. when he fued with del rio he is actually a heel but fans chants for him then turn him as face. His concussion and face turn is degrade his push. creative doesnt have any idea for ziggler.

In his recent interview he heavily criticies cena and creative team. May be that lead to leave his push. His concussion limit his action and push for main event.

The only way to push ziggler is turn him heel and tag with miz and win the tag gold from usos after extreme rules.

 

[laodaron]

Here's the truth. HHH was punished for a year for the curtain call. Ziggler isn't worth licking HHH's boots, so, let's be honest...the fact he's still employed by the WWE is a miracle.

 

[NaptownMVP]

I love Ziggler, but he's in danger of being the Marty Jannetty of his clique from last year. I wonder if the brass is scared to go with him because they're worried he may come up with another concussion.

Honestly, though, with only one main title, I'd love to see Ziggler be a major player on the IC scene. He could do lots of good for the title.

 

[OYDK]

Dolph is on TV regularly, right?

That's not buried.

People like JTG are buried.

He's not on TV regularly, if at all.

Your thread fails.

Ahhhhh... I really shouldn't answer this at all but I can't help myself. First of all if you have no clue what the hell you're talking about, than don't talk.

JTG is being buried... really... I'm sorry but do think JTG deserves to be IC champ or something... That dude is lucky he even has a job in the WWE, he is still getting paid for sitting on his ass and doing nothing (which is what he deserves to be doing) SO NO... JTG is not being buried.

Being buried means your being booked to look like a complete ass and jobbing to people "beneath you" for a long period of time... JTG's role is jobber , jobber's don't get buried because they are the lowest of the low... Ziggler is 2 time WHC and gets nice pops, but is being made to look like he is an underdog to Titus and Darren because the WWE doesn't like his attitude.
By your logic Alex Riley and Camacho are being "buried" too becasue they aren't on tv.

God people are stupid

 

[OYDK]

On a completely lighter note from my post above, I actually wouldn't mind seeing Ziggler and The Miz team together (hate the Miz but what are ya gonna do) ONLY IF, they feud with the Uso's for a while before winning the belts.

I think they can have great matches and Dolph would finally be getting some much needed mic time and wins. However it HAS to be with the Uso's right away... They can't be lingering in tag team obscurity like the PTP did or it will be the end of both careers IMO.

 

[Alex]

Ziggler just doesn't work on his own.

Think about it. Last year when he won the WHC he had AJ and Big E with him. Once he was on his own his interest took a nosedive.

I like Ziggler but he's a guy who needs to be around other people to be interesting. He needs to work off other people for him to work. It's like the How I Met Your Mother joke about 'Have you met Ted?' works with two people but when you try it on your own 'Have you met me?' It just doesn't work.

If the proposed Miz/Ziggler tag team happens I guarantee you Ziggler will become more interesting.

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

If the proposed Miz/Ziggler tag team happens I guarantee you Ziggler will become more interesting.

I agree. And if you think about it, if you could combine the two of them into ONE person, you'd really have something. The Miz's mic work and mannerisms, combined with Ziggler's look and in-ring ability, now we're talking about someone you could really see as being a top guy.

But due to our inability to morph two people into one, the next best thing is having them as a tag team. I think it's really going to work.

 

[Softcore Holly]

Ziggler just doesn't work on his own.

Think about it. Last year when he won the WHC he had AJ and Big E with him. Once he was on his own his interest took a nosedive.

I like Ziggler but he's a guy who needs to be around other people to be interesting. He needs to work off other people for him to work. It's like the How I Met Your Mother joke about 'Have you met Ted?' works with two people but when you try it on your own 'Have you met me?' It just doesn't work.

If the proposed Miz/Ziggler tag team happens I guarantee you Ziggler will become more interesting.

Of course his interest took a nosedive, that's the expected reaction when you go from winning/competing for the WHC to feuding with the Diva's champ and her big silent bodyguard. Like you can try to cheer for a guy as much as you can, but when they're stuck doing something dumb that you have no interest in you're naturally going to care a lot less. Like if DB ended his quest to be WWEHC after EC and just wanted to do dance-offs with Emma and Santino, his interest would take a nosedive too. (granted a lot slower than Ziggler's)

As for him being on his own, I can't remember a time where he was given something interesting to work with on his own. Like whenever he split from Vickie/AJ he would just be part of the directionless mid-card with no story/feuds. (we're not counting the AJ breakup crap) Obviously guys are supposed to make the best of what they've got but he got nothing. Like after the AJ thing all he did was lose, the most story he got was standing around silently while HHH was making him look like crap on the mic. No one could "work on his own" under those conditions.

 

[Alex]

Of course his interest took a nosedive, that's the expected reaction when you go from winning/competing for the WHC to feuding with the Diva's champ and her big silent bodyguard. Like you can try to cheer for a guy as much as you can, but when they're stuck doing something dumb that you have no interest in you're naturally going to care a lot less. Like if DB ended his quest to be WWEHC after EC and just wanted to do dance-offs with Emma and Santino, his interest would take a nosedive too. (granted a lot slower than Ziggler's)

As for him being on his own, I can't remember a time where he was given something interesting to work with on his own. Like whenever he split from Vickie/AJ he would just be part of the directionless mid-card with no story/feuds. (we're not counting the AJ breakup crap) Obviously guys are supposed to make the best of what they've got but he got nothing. Like after the AJ thing all he did was lose, the most story he got was standing around silently while HHH was making him look like crap on the mic. No one could "work on his own" under those conditions.

If you are truly an interesting character you can have a dull directionless storyline and people will still care about you.

CM Punk's feud with Ryback in 2012 was pretty much pointless/fillery as it was just do give Punk something to do while Cena recovered. But people still cared about it because it was Punk.

Bryan in Team Hell No had pretty much nothing but filler feuds with other teams but because it was Bryan (and to a lesser extent Kane) people cared about them and when they broke up Bryan's popularity continued until now.

 

[OYDK]

If you are truly an interesting character you can have a dull directionless storyline and people will still care about you.

CM Punk's feud with Ryback in 2012 was pretty much pointless/fillery as it was just do give Punk something to do while Cena recovered. But people still cared about it because it was Punk.

Bryan in Team Hell No had pretty much nothing but filler feuds with other teams but because it was Bryan (and to a lesser extent Kane) people cared about them and when they broke up Bryan's popularity continued until now.

If you'll remember, Ryback was completely over at the time he was feuding with CM Punk and that feud also introduced The Shield to the WWE, so I would say that feud had A LOT of interest going in...

Kane and Bryan were put together because they're stupid anger management skits were so damn funny. They were basically thrown together as a comedy duo and the fans just fell in love with them. And imo Kane helped Bryan get over more than anybody did.

 

[Softcore Holly]

I would also add that Punk was the WWE champ at the time, which also adds a lot to that feud, especially when you factor in the things listed at the above post.

As for team hell no, they got plenty of promo time that the crowd ate up along with a tag title run plus winning most of their matches. Of course they were going to be interesting compared to a guy that gets no promos and loses the majority of his matches.

 

[BaconBits]

Ahhhhh... I really shouldn't answer this at all but I can't help myself. First of all if you have no clue what the hell you're talking about, than don't talk.

JTG is being buried... really... I'm sorry but do think JTG deserves to be IC champ or something... That dude is lucky he even has a job in the WWE, he is still getting paid for sitting on his ass and doing nothing (which is what he deserves to be doing) SO NO... JTG is not being buried.

Being buried means your being booked to look like a complete ass and jobbing to people "beneath you" for a long period of time... JTG's role is jobber , jobber's don't get buried because they are the lowest of the low... Ziggler is 2 time WHC and gets nice pops, but is being made to look like he is an underdog to Titus and Darren because the WWE doesn't like his attitude.
By your logic Alex Riley and Camacho are being "buried" too becasue they aren't on tv.

God people are stupid

Nice try, but you still fail. Ziggler was never a high level wrestler. He was ALWAYS a midcard guy. He's STILL a midcard guy. That's he's ever going to be. Get over it.

JTG was in a program with CENA, and within months wasn't even on TV anymore. That's buried.

Leave the wrestling discussion to people who understand wrestling terms.

 

[OYDK]

Nice try, but you still fail. Ziggler was never a high level wrestler. He was ALWAYS a midcard guy. He's STILL a midcard guy. That's he's ever going to be. Get over it.

JTG was in a program with CENA, and within months wasn't even on TV anymore. That's buried.

Leave the wrestling discussion to people who understand wrestling terms.

What.... just.. just .. WHAT!

You say JTG should be in the upper midcard picture because he had ONE "program" with Cena (don't write his name in big letters like he's hot shit) Zach Ryder had like a 3 month FEUD with Cena (I guess you'll say RYDER FOR CHAMPION now right...)Also there is a difference between being buried and just being an all around shitty performer. JTG was NEVER going to be anything, you just started watching wrestling in 2008 if you think any different.

Btw Ziggler is a 2 time WHC like I said above so your argument of he was always a mid carder fails.

You do not know what you're talking about, go back to the kiddy forums

 

[MrMojoRisin]

If your selling is noticeable and a trait...you're kinda missing the point, it's supposed to be the unnoticed thing, everyone else who ever got the title/over managed it... He couldn't

Excellent point. Bret Hart for example, was one of the best 'sellers' of his time. He never did it in the over the top manner that Ziggler does though. Rather it was a realistic "this is how it should look if I get hit like this" method of selling... and "this is a way that will make what my opponent just did look like a million bucks" method of selling. Mick Foley was another tremendous "seller", because he again would make his opponents offense look ridiculously strong yet realistic.

When Ziggler bumps... it looks phony. He takes these over-exaturated big bumps that don't look like any hit I've ever seen anyone take in my life. It's like he saw one wrestling match in his life... that one being Hulk Hogan/Shawn Michaels at Summerslam, and figured THAT is what he's supposed to be doing every night.

He's an athletic guy. Despite what some people are saying here about him, he has a good look. The times I've seen that he's been allowed to be himself on the mic and not work off of a script, he's been good. He can definitely improve and there's a lot of potential there. But it's almost like the guy needs to be retaught how to work. I dare say it might not be the worst thing for him to get into a couple of bar fights, just so he can see how he is supposed to react when he gets hit.

As it is right now... and while it sucks because he's not far removed from being a World Champion... the fact that he's the guy that takes big bumps actually makes him better suited to be the guy putting others over each night, instead of being the guy that gets put over himself.

 

[Crypt Keeper]

I'm wondering when his rumored alliance with Miz will take place. Since they're saying they will be paired up because they are both upset with their treatment as of late, I'm hoping that'll make both stars, mainly Ziggler, relevant once again and this time stay relevant.

 

[Sabutage]

I actually like his over selling at certain moments, not every move but if he gets rkod or super kicked and has a huge reaction I prefer that to just being knocked out cold. So many things in wrestling are over the top, having a few overreactions doesnt suddenly make it unbelievable.

Its the same with Bryans flips when he gets clotheslined imo, its not needed but in certain situations it can enhance the match.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

I actually like his over selling at certain moments, not every move but if he gets rkod or super kicked and has a huge reaction I prefer that to just being knocked out cold. So many things in wrestling are over the top, having a few overreactions doesnt suddenly make it unbelievable.

Its the same with Bryans flips when he gets clotheslined imo, its not needed but in certain situations it can enhance the match.

Time and a place.

Yes, there are times when the big sell is called for... and there's times when it's like "that was the fakest, phoniest shit I've ever seen". It takes good psychology to know which time is which, and that's one of Ziggler's biggest problems inside the ring. He hasn't figured that out.

In the end though, the reason for the big sell is to make your opponent look strong. When people walk away talking about how you sold the move... instead of the move itself... you did it wrong.

 

[jeffrey9800]

Alright, I know people are probably going to be like, "OMG SHUT UP ABOUT ZIGGLER!" "THIS THREAD HAS BEEN DONE ALREADY!" blah blah blah...

BUT with that being said, after watching what he was used for on Smackdown, I had to say something. Now I get that Ziggler opened his mouth too much about the company and was too opinionated for WWE, blah blah blah, but good God let it go.

Ziggler was used on Smackdown in order to build up the Titus-Darren match going into EC. For those of you that didn't see what happened, Ziggler was made to look like he had no chance in the match and stole the victory with a roll up after Titus was distracted by Young. Ziggler than ran from the ring like a little bitch... really.... THIS is what Ziggler is being used for before Mania? No feud? No title shot? Nothing.
I always said I wasn't going to complain about how Ziggler is used because eventually he will be in the title picture again, but its been a couple years and he has been going nowhere but down.

The question to you is, do you think WWE is still punishing Dolph or have they legitimately given up on him? Also what do you guys want to see Dolph doing after Mania?

I had the same thaught at first.

But like I posted earlier this week, what I believe will happen is this :

Miz, Ziggler, Del Rio and possibly CM Punk will form some sort of faction sometimes soon, probably lead by Foley

CM Punk leaving
Del Rio getting killed by a part timer,
Miz getting no matches AND complaining to commentary
Ziggler with anti-authority speach after a house show that was SHOWN and promoted on WWE.com,
Foley being very vocal against a company that is paying him a shiet load of money for appearing here and there once and a while ... MAKES NO SENSE!!!! Why would you bash your employer who pays you the big bucks publicly.

I have to think this will lead to something, if not, I don't get it, I truly don't