Why Hasn't Hogan/Flair Ever Had That EPIC Feel To It?

[Mitch Henessey]

With all the excitment of Hogan going to TNA, and possibly Ric Flair also, I got me thinking about their past. Now I've heard Hogan and Flair are supposed to face off on Hulk's tour. Shouldn't everyone be excited? I know they're up there as far as age goes, but it's Hogan and Flair. Shouldn't wrestling fans be going nuts over this. Come to think about, why haven't Hogan and Flair ever had a memorable feud? When Flair went to WWF back in 1991, he would issue challenges to the likes of Hogan and Rowdy Piper, while claiming to be the "real world champion". Flair still had the WCW World Heavyweight Championship belt, to add legatimacy to his claims.Hogan and Flair never really had a "moment" while in WWF, unless you want count him and hogan tossing Sid out at the '92 Royal Rumble. Now of course eveyone knows Falir went back to WCW after Vince wanted to start pushing the younger guys back then. And then Hogan arrived some time in 1994. Flair of course was WCW world champion, and faced Hogan at Bash At The Beach. He lost the title to Hogan, and now Hogan was a world champion again. Now this match between Hogan and Flair never really felt memorable. Back then, Hogan was still pretty damn popular. But there's no moment in that match that makes you feel like it's a special part of wrestling history. Flair then went on to lose a retirement match(yeah he's had more than the one with HBK at WM 24) at Halloween Havoc. Flair and The Horsemen also feuded with the NWO. Flair beat Hogan for the WCW world title at Uncensored '99 in a first blodd match, and also gained control of WCW. Again nothing really memorable between Flair and Hogan with the NWO storyline. I think Hollywood whipped David Flair with a belt, while Ric was cuffed to the ropes. But it still doesn't make the Flair/Hogan rivarly epic. These are two of the biggest names in the buisness ever. Why aren't their past feuds remeberd? Was it that the matches weren't that great? Was it because they never faced off at Wrestlemania? Was it shitty booking? Thoughts?

 

[klunderbunker]

This is easy: Flair never beat Hogan when it meant a lot. Now I know that he beat him at Uncensored 99, but he's never pinned Hogan has he? Not that I remember at least. Over the years, Hogan was always pushed as the bigger star even in Flair's territory. It's the same reason Hogan and Savage hasn't looked huge after their Mania 5 match: no one thought Savage had a chance in hell. That's where it falls apart for me. Very rarely does a one sided feud work and this isn't one of those times.

 

[PEP3]

Something that always makes a feud classic is when the underdog pursues and pursues and pursues and finally gets a win. Well, when you have a Hogan and Flair, neither is really the underdog. Except when you consider what KB said about Flair never being booked equitably and looking like the underdog against Hogan . . . only he never got the win.

Even in WCW, where Flair should have been given a leg up, Hogan was still booked at the unstoppable force. It really makes for an awful (and generally unmemorable) encounter.

Think about most of the best feuds of Hogan's career. They were either booked against humongous monster heels (Bundy, Andre), where Hogan physically LOOKED like the underdog, or at a minimum against wrestlers like Warrior or Goldberg, where he looked like an equal. It's hard for someone to get excited about a match where one party not only looks like the obvious winner but also acts like/is booked as one.

What could have made a Flair/Hogan rivalry epic is to use a similar strategy as the AWA used booking Hogan against their champion Nick Bockwinkle. (It's basically what NWA/WCW did with Flair/Luger.) Based on appearance alone, Flair should get murdered by Hogan. However, through a combination of strategy/smarts/cheating, Flair somehow manages to hold the title and goes on the run. This would lead to a long chain of matches where Flair narrowly escapes with the belt, leading to one final confrontation where, despite Flair's most under-handed tactics, Hogan pulls out the win.

The final note as to why Flair/Hogan was never as monumental is it should have been is very simple. When I remember these two meeting in WCW, Flair was the face and Hogan was the heel. While "Hollywood" Hogan made an incredible monster heel, having him face the crowd-favorite Flair is NOT the match anyone had been salivating for for nearly 20 years.

We wanted to see dastardly "Nature Boy" Ric Flair facing the "All-American" Hulk Hogan. THAT is the clash we wanted, and since it's not how it was served to us, it wasn't what we'd expected. It was the pro wrestling equivalent of going to a friend's house for Thanksgiving Dinner. Everything might taste great, but if it doesn't taste the way your mom makes it, you're still not satisfied.

 

[maar130]

Why is none taking interest now? because this is not 1992 or 1999. Have this been 20 or 10 years later, maybe but right now you are looking at two wrestlers who had passed their prime by far.

Cool to see 2 Hall of fames going at it, but not at the tiem they might be in the need of a wheel chair or a cane. for that I watched that match on Raw while Hulk was Champion (2002) the last time and it was not that good.

 

[Mitch Henessey]

We wanted to see dastardly "Nature Boy" Ric Flair facing the "All-American" Hulk Hogan. THAT is the clash we wanted, and since it's not how it was served to us, it wasn't what we'd expected. It was the pro wrestling equivalent of going to a friend's house for Thanksgiving Dinner. Everything might taste great, but if it doesn't taste the way your mom makes it, you're still not satisfied.

That Thanksgiving Dinner analogy is classic. I've never heard that one befroe. I guess it never had that epic feel because we never saw "The Real American" versus the "Nature Boy. That would've made Hogan/Fair feel epic. KB summed it up best. Although he got the win at Uncensored '99, Flair never really beat Hogan when it meant something. But I can't help but think if their match at Bash At The Beach '94 was great maybe we would have something to remeber their encounters by. Remeber it was a big deal when Hogan went to WCW. Much bigger than him going to TNA now.

 

[The Brain]

To me it never had the epic feel because it didn't happen at WrestleMania VIII. I'm not convinced that it would have had the epic feel at mania, but that was the best chance. Like you said, Flair came into the WWF in 1991 and started challenging Hogan. We thought we were finally going to get the big showdown. Then it never happened. Yeah they hooked up at a few house shows, but that doesn't really mean anything. This match needed to happen at WrestleMania. I do have mixed feelings about that match taking place at mania. On one hand I really wanted it because I think it could have had that epic feel. On the other hand I really liked the Savage vs. Flair match. Anyway I think by the time Hogan and Flair hooked up in 1994 it was too late. A lot of people were just thinking this should have happened two years ago.

 

[Vintage Nick]

I haven't watched wrestling until a few years ago and never saw Hogan/Flair matches if they had a lot before, but I think the reason why NOW it's not as hyped is because...really, who wants to see two old, broken-down men that are way past their time go off against each other in a match that could end up being a snooze fest? Sure it looks great on paper, but what would the match itself look like? I'm betting on either terrible or bad.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

The reasoning it's never had the EPIC feel behind it is because Hogan wouldn't let it have one. If things were to go as planned, Hogan would have wrestled Flair at Wrestlemania instead of Sid Justice. The egos of both men prevented a battle of epic proportions that would have had implications we could not fathom as wrestling fans.

Think about this. Flair is the top heel in pro wrestling. Hogan is the top face in wrestling. It was the dream match. Both at their money making peaks and both coming off great runs. Yet, they couldn't decide on a good finish to the match and instead, put Flair with Savage, which wasn't half bad, and put Hogan with Sid, which was ALL bad. What might have been is all I can really say about that.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

The reasoning it's never had the EPIC feel behind it is because Hogan wouldn't let it have one. If things were to go as planned, Hogan would have wrestled Flair at Wrestlemania instead of Sid Justice. The egos of both men prevented a battle of epic proportions that would have had implications we could not fathom as wrestling fans.

Think about this. Flair is the top heel in pro wrestling. Hogan is the top face in wrestling. It was the dream match. Both at their money making peaks and both coming off great runs. Yet, they couldn't decide on a good finish to the match and instead, put Flair with Savage, which wasn't half bad, and put Hogan with Sid, which was ALL bad. What might have been is all I can really say about that.

This was absolutely right, it should have happened at Mania. This match would have had the build up it deserved. It would have been the biggest match in wrestling ever..IMO.

The reason why it didn't work in WCW was(IMO) lack of build up. WCW was in a transition and didn't have the means the really build the match up like it should have had. At that point they were blowing Hogan so much that you knew who was going to win the match. There were no"but what if" moments.

 

[dansaun77]

Flair did pin Hogan on Nitro in early 1996, then Arn Anderson pinned Hogan the following week. They should have wrestled at MANIA 8, but Vince took HogAN out of the title picture with the steroid dramas at the time, and put Savage in to the spot, as history shows. Hogan vs Flair simply put is possibly the single biggest balls-up by Vince McMAHON. hE COULD HAVE MADE EVERYBODY MILLIONS WITH THAT FEUD DONE CORRECTLY.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Everyone in this thread has the right idea, and it can be put in an even more basic fashion. Flair had plied his trade in WCW for years, building his reputation and establishing a standard of excellence unmatched by anyone.

Then, one day, Hogan enters the company and, in his very first match, wins the title from Flair and instantly becomes the man who beat the man. (Wooo!) Never mind paying your dues, never mind respecting the legend that was already there.

In one shot, the geniuses at WCW cheapened the legacy of Ric Flair and showed that Hogan would thereafter be treated like a god. In my view, they even inadvertently placed WWE above themselves, proving to us that the best of Stamford could come in and beat the best of Atlanta at any time.

After that, I could never get behind a Flair-Hogan feud. It seemed pointless.

 

[deadman403]

that would probably be because we've seen it too many times before and we all know the result. Flair should have been able to beat Hogan at any point in their careers, but because of Hogan's drawing power, it never happened. And i don't see Hogan allowing Flair to beat him on Hulk's own tour.