Why Didn't Ortons Title Reign Become As Popular As Edges.

[TheOneBigWill]

I don't think I could sum it up any better than Shocky just did, but I'll add my take as well.

I don't believe Orton's Championship reign was any less "popular" as Edge's original outting. I think if anything, Orton's original reign was bigger and better than Edge's, after all Orton got a full month and Edge got 3 weeks.

Orton doesn't have the charisma that Edge has for starters, so he's never going to be looked at as better through being able to entertain the fans on that level. The second thing is Orton is very one dimensional. If you look at the two through in-ring activity, Orton does the same exact thing. Edge has at least switched it up throughout the years. Orton's added an R.K.O. finisher.. Edge went to a spear, has a submission finisher, still uses the Implant D.D.T., and has a large depth of regular moves. Orton does a stomp around the body, has a cross body block, and does a lot of rest hold submissions that'll never win him the match.

I honestly believe Orton's gimmick (Legend Killer) would've and should've been better than Edge's gimmick (Rated R) because if you step back and look.. all Edge's gimmick really is, is of a guy who's suppose to be a "bad ass" that's not a role model for children. Any heel could assumably fit that bill.. but Orton's gimmick would've been and should've been unique in the understanding that he was suppose to be the threat and the end of the line for anyone claiming to be a legend.

That gimmick started out greatfully until he was flatlined by Triple H. (twice, none the less) destroyed by Hulk Hogan with only one hip, and beaten by the Undertaker at Wrestlemania. I believe the Mania match, if Taker is ever going to lose, should've been to Orton. If he's never going to lose, then that match should've been held off until Orton could get the first victory, at Summerslam that same year, only for Taker to come back later.

In closing, when you look at the reigns.. Edge has done a lot more with each reign he's had after his first one, than Orton's done with either of his. Orton's defeated H.B.K., Triple H., Jericho & Cena. Not a bad list to have but Edge has defeated Batista, Mysterio, Undertaker, Cena, R.V.D., Ric Flair, and several others in his way.. and Edge's reign was simply more exciting because they were doing different things with the way it was directed.

 

[Dark Blaze]

I don't think I could sum it up any better than Shocky just did, but I'll add my take as well.

I don't believe Orton's Championship reign was any less "popular" as Edge's original outting. I think if anything, Orton's original reign was bigger and better than Edge's, after all Orton got a full month and Edge got 3 weeks.

Orton's reign may have been "bigger and better" but it wasn't particularly noteworthy, if it wasn't shoved down our throats that he's the youngest WHC ever, most would have forgotten. However, like I said in my first(completely ignored post), Edge's first title win was way more memorable since it had that "shock" factor, it was sneaky, manipulative and underhanded which instantly gave him heel heat. Randy won his first title and got cheered after winning and then got immediately turned into a face, two different reigns.

Orton doesn't have the charisma that Edge has for starters, so he's never going to be looked at as better through being able to entertain the fans on that level.

That is true, as a lover of both those guys, I will never ever try to say Randy is more charismatic, but the fact is he DOES have charisma, not as much as Edge, but he DOES. And the fact is that Edge and Randy are playing two different characters (again said in original post). Edge is the heel that everyone hates to like, he's supposed to exude charisma, supposed to get people to do his dirty work for him and supposed to be manipulative. He plays it perfectly. Yet Orton is an obsessed (not saying Edge isn't) psychopathic heel, who does things way more bluntly than Edge ever will, he'll go straight for what he wants. Edge is way more underhanded.

The second thing is Orton is very one dimensional. If you look at the two through in-ring activity, Orton does the same exact thing. Edge has at least switched it up throughout the years. Orton's added an R.K.O. finisher.. Edge went to a spear, has a submission finisher, still uses the Implant D.D.T., and has a large depth of regular moves. Orton does a stomp around the body, has a cross body block, and does a lot of rest hold submissions that'll never win him the match.

Because Edge has never used a rest hold submission..nope. What exactly is that large depth of regular moves? And how does that differ from Orton doing the same thing? When was the last time Edge used his submission move please remind me, and if it's recent please tell me the last time you honestly thought he'd win with it, I honestly can't remember. You can't hold wrestlers accountable for their moveset, it's what creative allows them to use. And since when are submissions always performed by wrestlers to win, don't they cause pain? Aren't they used to incapacitate your opponent? I mean sure if they tap out, you won't complain...but headlocks are primarily used as breathers ( Orton does use them too much) but his target in his moves are the head area so thus it DOES make sense he uses them...I do wish sometimes he didn't abuse them so but whatever...the stomp around the body actually fits in with the gimmick and has a point, he causes pain and prevents his opponent from doing their moves as well as possible.

I honestly believe Orton's gimmick (Legend Killer) would've and should've been better than Edge's gimmick (Rated R) because if you step back and look.. all Edge's gimmick really is, is of a guy who's suppose to be a "bad ass" that's not a role model for children. Any heel could assumably fit that bill.. but Orton's gimmick would've been and should've been unique in the understanding that he was suppose to be the threat and the end of the line for anyone claiming to be a legend.

Of course, I completely agree with you here, but when was the last time Randy killed a legend worth "killing"? The legend Killer gimmick hasn't been even enforced much anyway, from the time Randy started feuding with Cena for the belt last year, he became just a heel who was obsessed with winning the belt. I think now that the Legend Killer nickname is just that now...a nickname. WWE needs to do more with it.

On the other hand, Edge has a gimmick he's been able to run with quite well and has elements necessary to ensure that he gets over as a sleazy, lewd guy who'll do anything get ahead. Get the GM of the brand you're on, on her back? Check. Get a stable who can bail your ass out at times? Check. All booking.

That gimmick started out greatfully until he was flatlined by Triple H. (twice, none the less) destroyed by Hulk Hogan with only one hip, and beaten by the Undertaker at Wrestlemania. I believe the Mania match, if Taker is ever going to lose, should've been to Orton. If he's never going to lose, then that match should've been held off until Orton could get the first victory, at Summerslam that same year, only for Taker to come back later.

HHH IMO is always the one killing Orton's momentum, always. But I disagree, I don't think Randy had to end Taker's streak, he got put over just fine. And though it would solidify him as the Legend Killer, it just wasn't necessary at the time. A victory over Hogan would've done the same, but Taker helped Randy tremendously, had people taking him seriously again...Hogan killed him though.

In closing, when you look at the reigns.. Edge has done a lot more with each reign he's had after his first one, than Orton's done with either of his. Orton's defeated H.B.K., Triple H., Jericho & Cena. Not a bad list to have but Edge has defeated Batista, Mysterio, Undertaker, Cena, R.V.D., Ric Flair, and several others in his way.. and Edge's reign was simply more exciting because they were doing different things with the way it was directed.

Orton was made to look like a bitch during his reign, plain and simple. He was this dominating heel who'd hurt any and everyone in his path. Then cue Shawn Michaels and sure, Randy beat him, but how? When Shawn couldn't use his finisher (which was seen as Orton being a coward and not particularly smart) How strong did Randy look there? Triple H? What's the reason given there? Oh yeah, it was HHH's third match of the night(about the only sneaky thing Orton did, and that's been done before, cashing in your rematch when your opponent is weakened or something). Again weak.

Jericho ended in a DQ...and Cena also a DQ. Infact, the only matches Randy successfully defended his championship cleanly was against Hardy and in the triple threat at Mania. Now I'm not saying he had to be beating everyone left and right, but what I'm saying is that he was just portrayed as using the "coward's way out" each and everytime with blatant (not even underhanded) DQ's.

While Edge, who won the title in a similar manner as Orton (talking about his MITB cash ins) meaning their opponents had been involved in matches before, was just given the gimmick of the Ultimate Opportunist and Master Manipulator. See who booking favored there?

You inadvertently said it, Edge's reigns are more memorable and talked about simply because they tried new things with him, his first reign is particularly remembered because it was the first time MITB was cashed in in that manner. All I'm saying is yes Edge has more memorable reigns, yes Edge is the more charismatic of the two, hell Edge is the better of the two. But you can't really compare two people who are playing two different characters, Edge plays his perfectly, Orton plays his well...but they're still different, the only thing that they share is they have an obsessive (freaky) need to be a champion...and they do anything to get to that goal.

The ways they go about getting there still differs.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Well.....

1. Edge is the better performer all round. I prefer Orton, but i still see Edge as the better performer. There's more levels to Edge than Orton from the heel perspective. Edge will play the numbers game, use MITB or use weapons regardless of the rule structure or get cozy with the boss, but Orton will just beat the guy, and if not he'll punch them in the nuts or slap the ref (lame).

2. I think people were behind Edge because he went from being the guy from the upper mid-card who no-one saw becoming champ (at that time), winning MITB and then becoming the Rated-R superstar. It was like he evolved into a new Edge because his Exp. points were high enough (terrible analogy, i know). Orton...... didn't. When Orton won the title the first time, i think people knew he wouldn't last, they jus did it so he could say ' i'm the youngest champ ever'. With Edge's first win, i think people actually believed that he'd be champion for longer than 3 weeks.

3. With Orton's third title win (following his legendary 20 minute reign, lol) i think people wanted to see him win the belt just so Cena didn't have it anymore. That's when Cena hating was at its peak imo. But then no one even got to see Orton beat him. People probably thought, ok you're just the champion until Cena gets back, and I don't think many people really believed in the Age of Orton until Orton retained at NWO against Cena. Despite the fact that Orton was going to be booked to win that LMS match at No Mercy, the way it transpired just made Orton look weaker. Sadly once he'd proven he could beat Cena, and people were ready to get behind him, that run was shut down.

4. With Edge having been a part of WWE now for 10 years (i think), my guess is that the fans were happy that he finally made that transition to Champ material. 'We've see you start out as the blonde guy with the long hair in the goth shirt to becoming this total prick, that we can still have fun watching while we hate you.'
Orton has been around for 6 years now, having had one of the longest IC reigns in the last decade, beating countless legends, and has been the youngest champ ever, as well as being in a high profile stable, and another high profile tag team. In fact, Orton is a triple crown winner already, and that's on a par with Angle in terms of WWE accomplishments. When Orton says he's going to accomplish something because of destiny, that couldn't be more true, due to his heritage. He's a third generation wrestler. Unless he'd turned out to be that awful a performer, he was guaranteed to get pushed hard from the moment he appeared on TV. The Rock is one of the most decorated 3rd gen stars, and 2nd gen stars like Eddie Guerrero have been highly decorated in his WWE run alone, and look at Carlito, Rhodes and Dibiase. All 3 of those guys became a champion almost instantaniously. Dibiase has been on the main roster now for what 4 months? And he's been in 2, or maybe 3 main event matches on Raw already. So i think fans were happy to see Edge grab the gold ring after a decade of hard work, as opposed to Orton being placed on it from the beginning and never letting it go.

That's my view anyway

 

[therockyfan316]

the reason orton's was less memorable was first off, just when he was about to win the championship by defeating john cena (it was just about to happen)...cena gets injured, cheating orton out of a (relatively) fair win. they fought on so many ppvs in a row, with cena always looking way better than orton. and then would get headlining the next ppv: orton vs cena...again! orton then becomes champion when vince hands it to him, and proceeds to keep the title by disqualifying himself in like every other match...on ppv no less. the only person he looked legitimately better than was jeff hardy. now if you look at edge's reign, yes he cheated but he did it in a dominant way. he didnt kick people in the nuts and walk off limping.

 

[rookie]

the only reason why edges had more talk was because edge was starting a new gimmick and no one expected him to come out then ( i am pretty sure i didn't) and then ortons wasn't a big of a thing because he didn't beat cena in the LMS. he beat triple h who had 3 matches that night. if orton beat cena he might of gotten a better excitement and talk from the fans but yeah. also ortons storylines made the attention on the opponents ok right.

hbk= survivor series 10 years after the montreall screw job
jericho= he was returning as face and yeah.
jeff hardy= his first real chance and jeff was making the crowd go crazy with the massive swanton and all that stuff
cena= came back from a massive injury and came back from the rumble .

so not much attention on his scale

 

[Starchild]

Well the main reason is because Edge is more over than Orton. I mean look at the guys that fans really flock to...the ones that rise through the ranks and become a main eventer. The Rock and Austin did it rather quickly but still got over. Then you have guys like Michaels, HHH, Hart, Jericho, and Edge..guys that it took a while to get there..more than 5 years from debut to world title reign. In Edge's case it took about 8 years and we watched him go through the whole thing and stop at each different level. So when he finally broke through and won the title, it was huge. And just look at the progress he has made since that night. He is now probably the best heel in WWE, someone that we really love to hate and carries the title fantastically.

Orton on the other hand was pushed quickly and had a great start with Evolution, beginning of the Legend Killer gimmick and all that. But then he was buried by HHH, lost to Taker at WM and wasn't in the ME scene for a while. When he finally was he was great. Certainly not as good on the mic, in the ring, or as good a heel as Edge but still one of the best in the company. And then Cena gets hurt and he is awarded the title only to lose it and win it back from HHH in the same night which didn't really make him look good as HHH had a match with Umaga between those two. After that, Orton's reign was pretty good in my opinion. It was on again/off again as the main thing going on while Edge's was THE main focus of the show. He did get rather repetitive and boring on the mic, but he did a good job as the heel champ.

Shocky mentioned that "it" factor that Edge has which just makes him great, but we have to look at how much more experience he has than Orton. He was clearly not always as good a heel, on the mic, or wrestler as he is now. Orton has only been around for about 5-6 years...give him time. He used to talk about his destiny was to be great and he's right. He may not be the best, but he's up there. Who knows how good he will be in another 5 years with the progress he has made in the last five. He could use some moves and additions to his character, but I think one day in not so long we are gonna be talking about Orton as the best heel in the business.