Why Can't People Appreciate The Matches Anymore?

[Wrestlingfan100]

All I ever read nowadays in the IWC is there are no characters, no personalities, no gimmicks and quite frankly I think this is a good thing.
Why? You ask probably thinking my opinion already is blasphemy is because we've recieved WAY better in ring action this year in WWE.
Great feuds have been happening on Raw, Smackdown, NXT and Superstars. Tyson Kidd and Yoshi Tatsu have been feuding for 7 months, sure they may lack all the character and gimmicky part outside of the ring but in the ring it's freaking epic. Why can't you just appreciate a good match without worrying about storylines, and personas and how much these guys draw, I watch pro wrestling for the moves in the ring mostly and many people do. There have been amazing matches this year by the midcard and lowcard guys espescially
why can't people just stop worrying about the business and booking side and enjoy a sound ground technical + equally highflying match, an athletic and powerful, ground + pound tag match. Tyson Kidd has put on epic in ring feuds with Yoshi Tatsu and Trent Baretta, isn't that why you all became fans for the in ring stuff on the most part. I don't mean to offend anyone but come on, these are great matches.

 

[The Brain]

Because without drama, personality, and emotion we’ve seen it all. I love a good match as much as anybody but if I don’t care about your character your match isn’t going to hold my attention. I’ve been watching wrestling for 25 years. There isn’t much that can be done in a ring that I haven’t seen before. There are plenty of guys who can go out and execute moves to deliver the same match that Tyson Kidd and Yoshi Tatsu deliver. Far less can actually get the fans to care. The ones that can are the ones that are successful. I don’t care how many high flying moves those guys can do. I wouldn’t call Tyson Kidd vs. Yoshi Tatsu anything close to epic. I’ll take Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant over those guys any day.

John Cena and CM Punk had a very good match at MITB this year. For as good as the match was it would not have been anywhere near as memorable had it not been for the storyline, the crowd, and all the drama. That’s what will make that match memorable for years to come. Do you think anyone will remember Kidd vs. Tatsu years from now? Good drama can make an average match great, but a great in ring match will just look average without the good drama.

 

[klunderbunker]

Because the Attitude Era and people like Eric Bischoff and Vince Russo ruined wrestling.

Instead of being about in ring competition and basic feuds such as what Hogan made tens of millions on in the 80s, everything became about the insanity of things and how crazy it could get. When it was the late 90s and you had people that were capable of working a style like that because they bled charisma and could do insane things. However, the wrestling stopped mattering and it became all about the drama. Look at WCW if you don't believe me. The Outsiders and Hogan almost never defended their titles but they were champions for months on end. It stopped being about wrestling and became all about the drama.

Back in the day you could have a fifteen minute match and have it be interesting. Now you need that time for a promo or a segment to validate having a match on a Pay Per View that doesn't need to exist other than for the reason of it's the fourth Sunday in a month so we need to have a PPV. It causes everything to have to be sped up and we can't get the same development before those matches. There's no real reason to see these matches on PPV such as Punk vs. HHH this Sunday. The match will be ok but it'll be about the drama and the violence instead of the match which could have been built up for months instead of weeks. But hey, we get a quick payoff of a PPV which could be much bigger but we did this in the 90s so it must be the right answer now right?

Finally, a lot of it has to do with the developmental system. No one knows how to work a live crowd anymore and it's all about working the camera. You look at guys mentioned like Tatsu and Kidd and they have one major thing in common: they didn't come up through FCW and were trained elsewhere. The same is true of guys like Cena and Punk and they get the biggest reactions on the show anymore, as well as have better matches. Everything anymore is about getting the quick reaction and the slow build is a thing of the past anymore. It's kind of a shame.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Pretty much what Brain said sums it up for me.

It's extremely difficult to appreciate a match when there is no drama, build up, or storyline around the match, that is what all memorable matches have in common is that it has all of these attributes. Andre vs. Hogan at WM3 was voted the worst worked match of the year yet it is heralded and more memorable by any technical masterpiece that Daniel Bryan has ever had and that's because it was an encounter of epic proportions, a match that put over 93'000 people in the Silver Dome and had a great build and storyline, that's more important than what happens in the ring because that's what sells the tickets.

Even though I've seen quite a few good matches this year for me the only 2 that I will remember are Cena vs. Punk and HHH vs. Taker because of the build up, story line and the overall atmosphere both matches created. From in ring work there are probably better matches but when it comes to story line and build up these 2 matches cannot be touched by any other match this year and they were the only 2 matches this year I wanted to see in advance, so much that I made sure that I was home so I could watch them.

Matches are the best when they have story, drama, and build up and without those things your match really has nothing no matter how good it is.

I also got to disagree with klunderbunker on the Attitude Era ruined wrestling although match quality wasn't nearly as good back then. This year I just named 2 matches that will be remembered in '99 there was Rock/Mankind (RR, Empty arena match and St. Valentines Day Massacre), Austin/McMahon (St Valentines Day Massacre), Rock/Austin (WM15 and Backlash), Austin/McMahon ladder match for control of the company (KOTR 99), Austin/Taker First Blood match (which wrapped up the Austin/McMahon feud), Austin/HHH (No Mercy), HHH/McMahon (Armageddon). All these matches were Attitude era matches and all had a good build and were something you wanted to see. It wasn't the carnage each match guaranteed it was the build and story behind each match is what made it memorable. The Attitude Era may have been blood and carnage but they still built matches people wanted to see

 

[The Suplexer Perfecter]

Instead of being about in ring competition and basic feuds such as what Hogan made tens of millions on in the 80s

Wrestling isn't a real competition. Without the characters, promos, build up, it's just two guys fake fighting.

Characters are the reason WWE became number 1.

You have to have a reason to care about the match. Otherwise, it's just another piss break.

 

[klunderbunker]

Wrestling isn't a real competition. Without the characters, promos, build up, it's just two guys fake fighting.

Characters are the reason WWE became number 1.

You have to have a reason to care about the match. Otherwise, it's just another piss break.

Sure you do and Hogan did just that: guy attacks him and hurts him, Hogan comes back and beats him in the big match then does it again and again while a new guy is squashing people left and right. They did that for years and it worked incredibly well.

Then in the 90s they started bringing in things like hostile takeovers, vandalism, kidnap, implied rape, transvestites, religion, crucifixitions and I could go on and on. It stopped being about wrestling as the payoff and started being about survival.

You can have characters and still have it be about the matches. Punk vs. Cena proved that.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

All I ever read nowadays in the IWC is there are no characters, no personalities, no gimmicks and quite frankly I think this is a good thing.
Why? You ask probably thinking my opinion already is blasphemy is because we've recieved WAY better in ring action this year in WWE.
Great feuds have been happening on Raw, Smackdown, NXT and Superstars. Tyson Kidd and Yoshi Tatsu have been feuding for 7 months, sure they may lack all the character and gimmicky part outside of the ring but in the ring it's freaking epic. Why can't you just appreciate a good match without worrying about storylines, and personas and how much these guys draw, I watch pro wrestling for the moves in the ring mostly and many people do. There have been amazing matches this year by the midcard and lowcard guys espescially
why can't people just stop worrying about the business and booking side and enjoy a sound ground technical + equally highflying match, an athletic and powerful, ground + pound tag match. Tyson Kidd has put on epic in ring feuds with Yoshi Tatsu and Trent Baretta, isn't that why you all became fans for the in ring stuff on the most part. I don't mean to offend anyone but come on, these are great matches.

Sorry man, gonna have to just disagree with you, yes great workers are great, but if you can't compel me with your character then there's no incentive for me to care, I might as well just watch something that's not pre-determined or theatrical. I might sound like a hypocrite considering my avatar of Bret Hart, however the thing is when Bret was a World Champion he did his in ring thing and did it beautifully, but at the same time they had great vignettes and out of the ring introspectives on the character that made you CARE what he did in that ring, it enhanced the whole overall product.

I'm sorry but you just can't have someone work in the ring and not also care about the character outside of it, sure WWE tries to do something with those backstage vignettes they do these days but they don't have the same impact, they don't have these characters have the same dynamics that the bygone eras like the Hogan Era and Attitude Era had in fact even the guys that came before those eras in the WWWF period had more to offer in the way of personality and emotional investment than we get these days with today's workers, and that's not a slight against their abilities.

Problem is the WWE only cares about World Titles and other things that distract from character development. Bottom line is this the whole idea of being a WWE superstar is a quest you start from the bottom and work your way up, sometimes you go the Bret Hart route and find your niche in a tag team scenario, and then you go for the IC title and then from there if you flourish with the IC title which Bret did, more often than not you get a shot at the top prize which Bret did and won it. Yes we know that he was not the most boisterous or over the top personality but by having the track record he did in the WWF through all his previous storylines when he finally got to that pinnacle it made all the sense in the world storywise.

These days though you have no more middle ground, secondary titles are no longer vital story elements, although that MIGHT change with Air Boom as tag champs and Rhodes as IC Champion but with Ziggler as US Champion, I really don't know where they are going with things, again NOC is going to showcase a four man mess of a match with Ziggler defending against three challengers not my idea of a story right there, sorry.

Therefore when Yoshi Tatsu and Tyson Kidd get in the ring and try to kill each other I could care less because there's no motivation mapped for these guys, I doubt seriously that Vince will ever bring back the Cruiserweight Title, I mean I could be wrong but when you consider what WCW did to it and WWE later did as well, the CW Championship is a thing of the past. Period.

That's not to say I wouldn't want to see Yoshi and Tyson go after a secondary title but who knows if that's really going to happen? Not every small guy an be the Rey Mysterio underdog and defy the odds when playing with the big boys. Let's be honest on that. Again I maintain that these characters have to have some sort of storyline motivation and just can't go out there and bounce all over the ring, the in ring action is great no doubt but as a fan I don't want to know what these guys are about or what they are after but I DEMAND to know. Or else why the hell am I watching you guys in the first place?

Then in the 90s they started bringing in things like hostile takeovers, vandalism, kidnap, implied rape, transvestites, religion, crucifixitions and I could go on and on. It stopped being about wrestling as the payoff and started being about survival.

Oh and KB don't forget they even had Necrophelia going in in the new millenium...we can't leave that out now lol!

 

[arkady]

Good gimmicks and characters actually help put on good matches, not just in setting a background for the match, but informing the wrestlers how to work the match.

The Miz's gimmick leads to him playing the chickenshit heel, who will create any chance he can to (legally or not) overcome a stronger/more skillful opponent. John Cena's gimmick means he never cheats in matches, and things like that.

 

[fiasco28]

I think most of us are spoiled from the "Attitude Era", WCW days and just the 90s and 80s period. So its hard for most of us to appreciate what we have now and what the WWE is now.

Which i really dont blame most people for having a hard time to appreciate shit, based on how things are now.. alot of these matches dont have a good story, build up and just a lack of depth and substance.. I think the talent is there in place, but the creative, Vince, just areant running things right..

The plots and whatnot are there, but they just dont seem to know what to do with it. Like if Miz and Dolph Ziggler face right now its like, yes its a match full of talent, but most people might not watch it because there proly wouldnt that much drama, emotion or much personality to it. or the right type or amount

Or like how everyone got tired of Cena and Orton facing so much, reason being because it was done the same over and over mostly.. we watched Austin and The Rock face alot but never got tired of it, because it was done different every time as far as the build up and story.. more substance, emotion, and personality etc..

 

[Azane]

MMA stole a good portion of the fans who were into wrestling purely for the athleticism or technique.

It's good to have a pure wrestling match or two on any card, but the things I grew up around in wrestling were over the top storylines and character development.

 

[notfairtoflair]

Why can't people appreciate the matches anymore you ask?

Because wrestling is a worked business and you have to make people care to watch guys "fake" fighting as Vince Russo would call it (*gag*). Think about all the great classics throughout the years: Flair/Rhodes, Flair/Funk, HBK/Undertaker, Lawler/Dundee, Rock/Austin, Midnights/Rock 'n' Roll, Bret/Austin...none of those matches would not have meant nothing if it wasn't for the storylines and the personalities behind them.

 

[poppycock]

It's not MMA it's WWE, larger than life gimmicks, characters and storylines are a big part of the enjoyment (for me anyway). I don't care for MMA, UFC, boxing or amateur wrestling whatsoever but have always been into pro wrestling and that is because of the theatrics of it all. Don't get me wrong..I love a good "wrestling" match as much as anybody and many of my favourite wrestlers are/were fantastic technical ring masters (Bret Hart, William Regal to name a couple) but if it was just about the actual in ring wrestling I would not be half as interested. I think having a good mix of the two is vital and something that has kept me into pro wrestling for all these years.

 

[WWE4EVA]

im with everyone else, i need a reason to care to pay to see the PPV. i dont watch boxing or UFC ppvs cause theres very little build up..thats y wwe has there audience and UFC has a different audience. People tend to forget the "E" in WWE stands for entertainment...not just the matches but the show in general. without the storylines the wrestlers r just common people doing fake moves. whats so interesting about that?

 

[Yesiamaduck]

I watch WWE for storylines, drama, character development and blow off matches... I watch ROH for pure wrestling, I watch WWE to be entertained in an OTT way which my friends can also enjoy from time to time.

 

[PunkNation26]

Because WWE matches, with a few exceptions are dominated by stupid move sequences in every match that kill the realism of the competition. I mean, Cena's stupid spinout powerbomb and 5 knuckle shuffle, simulationally speaking, offer no value in his goal to win the match. In fact , simulationally speaking, it leaves him vulnerable to being countered, bitchslapped, and hit with a , let's say GTS for example, leading to inevitable defeat.

It's just the illlogical booking by WWE in terms of move telegraphing and move sequences. I like guys who work matches competitively then hit their finisher out of no where and pick up the hard fought victory. I despise stupid theatrics. The Rock is the exception though. I mean come on, The People's Elbow is just plain awesome. However I think they should call it The Hollywood Elbow from now on.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

Because WWE matches, with a few exceptions are dominated by stupid move sequences in every match that kill the realism of the competition. I mean, Cena's stupid spinout powerbomb and 5 knuckle shuffle, simulationally speaking, offer no value in his goal to win the match. In fact , simulationally speaking, it leaves him vulnerable to being countered, bitchslapped, and hit with a , let's say GTS for example, leading to inevitable defeat.

It's just the illlogical booking by WWE in terms of move telegraphing and move sequences. I like guys who work matches competitively then hit their finisher out of no where and pick up the hard fought victory. I despise stupid theatrics. The Rock is the exception though. I mean come on, The People's Elbow is just plain awesome. However I think they should call it The Hollywood Elbow from now on.

To be honest with you then man, I don't know if you are really watching the right form of entertainment, yes I know there are some wrestling styles that tailor themselves to being more "grounded in realism" but as long as the art form is predetermined and there are no true winners and losers then expect for everything you said you hate to continue existing. 'Nuff said.

 

[PunkNation26]

I know guys have their trademark moves, and that's cool, but I'm talking predictable move sequences that realisticly, somebody should have figured out how to counter by now. The two best examples of this are Randy Orton and John Cena. Orton with his powerslam combination annoys me almost as much as Cena's "Moves of Doom".

Also other guys like Triple H for example will hit their trademark moves in matches, but not necessarily in the same sequence. Hunter would hit his HIGH KNEE, then maybe go for a pin, then the other guy would come back and clothsline him, etc. Just stop with the cartoon crap. I honestly believe the reason for this is the lack of true wrestling ability. Orton isn't a very good wrestler. He's average at best, and Kurt Angle took him apart at an ECW event a few years back.

The majority of guys with actual wrestling ability work great matches without the need for cheap move sequences.

 

[XXJJ]

Because the matches are fake. Pretty much everything has been done before. A wrestler gimmick is very important. Thats how the fans take an interest into watching their matches. Most people dont want to see a couple of no name guys wrestle each other. Storytelling, drama and emotions that is what makes the matches.

A big part of pro wrestling has always been the entertainment side. Ric Flair would climb to the top rope only to get bodyslammed off the top in almost all his matches. Its very predicatable but why does it keep happening? Because it was entertaining to people. If people are looking for realism. I dont think you should be watching pro wrestling. Guys are hitting themselves with chairs and sledgehammers, lol

If your purely just into it as a "sport", I think you are better off watching MMA or amateur wrestling.

 

[Bender]

The Brain pretty much said it all,

without emotions or personality, it's no good. We've seen it before, it's bland and boring. The Attitude Era made everything so great and awesome. People mostly compare that to this, so people get kind of bored because they know WWE can do better, prior to the PG Era since the Attitude Era made it all happen.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

So funny.

Pro wrestling isn't that much different than it ever was before. There is better in ring wrestling now than their was in the attitude era and better characters than there were in wrestling-heavy periods, but over all, it's not that much different. It's about how it's been for the last 30 years.

Do you guys not ever go back and actually watch old stuff or do you just rely on your distorted, nostalgia-driven memory?

 

[flawd101]

i love the matches. i took a long break from wrestling but what brought me back was new characters and exciting matches on tv. watch old matches youtube, they aren't as good as you remember them. the difference is storylines are not fully developed anymore and they seem to avoid the backstage/non ring story development.

all the titles have new fueds since summerslam and everyone is complaining there are no storys or personality. it takes a while to build a fued and having it mean something. everyone wants instant results. just be patient. noc/hiac is time for the first plot twist. which will lead to vengeance/ss climaxes and resolutions. tlc and the rumble will then start new fueds and lead into wm. it is cyclical, for watching wrestling for so long some of you are pretty ignorant to story structure.

 

[Pink Wolf]

As mentioned by others, the fans must be invested in the characters who are wrestling.
I've show a lot of my friends pure wrestling matches, and they give me shit about it even though they are great matches.

When I show my friends a promo as to why they are wrestling, then they care. People love drama. People love the good guy vs. bad guy scenerio. Its human nature. The matches mean nothing if no one cares about the characters.

 

[PunkNation26]

The whole "good guy vs bad guy" thing is another reason why I don't appreciate matches like I should. In today's realistic, MMA driven world, There shouldn't always be black and white issues. I just wish that there was a heel who is a great wrestler who would just kick a face's ass in a match cleanly. I mean, he could still cheat and stuff, but only because he wants to or gets off on it, not because he has to.

This is why I actually loved the Punk vs Cena matches. Punk was somewhat of a tweener, but in WWE's eyes he was heel, yet he still was allowed to take it to Cena and actually defeat him without cheating. Cena's spinout powerbomb sequence is done mainly as a way of telling non Cena fans to kiss his ass. I also believe it's a cheap attempt to copy the People's Elbow. However, the People's Elbow is a finisher.

I just don't see what purpose the Spinout Bomb sequence serves. At least with Orton's Powerslam sequence, it actually looks like it improves his chances of winning.


On the move sequence thing, Ric Flair going to the top rope was done for comedic effect more than anything else.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

The whole "good guy vs bad guy" thing is another reason why I don't appreciate matches like I should. In today's realistic, MMA driven world, There shouldn't always be black and white issues. I just wish that there was a heel who is a great wrestler who would just kick a face's ass in a match cleanly. I mean, he could still cheat and stuff, but only because he wants to or gets off on it, not because he has to.

This is why I actually loved the Punk vs Cena matches. Punk was somewhat of a tweener, but in WWE's eyes he was heel, yet he still was allowed to take it to Cena and actually defeat him without cheating. Cena's spinout powerbomb sequence is done mainly as a way of telling non Cena fans to kiss his ass. I also believe it's a cheap attempt to copy the People's Elbow. However, the People's Elbow is a finisher.

I just don't see what purpose the Spinout Bomb sequence serves. At least with Orton's Powerslam sequence, it actually looks like it improves his chances of winning.


On the move sequence thing, Ric Flair going to the top rope was done for comedic effect more than anything else.

Again, a lot of people at least in my generation watched wrestling because we didn't give a hoot about "reality", that is not what it's about. I will admit that sometimes having a match that isn't all silly and carried away with the theatrics but at the same time people want that storytelling formula. Again, I hate breaking this to you but maybe you should just watch MMA if you are just looking for a real fight because that is what it sounds like. Because before there was MMA, you had Boxing, there's always been some form of real fighting, the real thing that I think has made wrestling change more isn't combat sports like MMA, it's the dubmassery you see on reality television.

But like I maintain, I understand your reasons for not liking certain aspects of what you see in wrestling but as long as wrestling is predetermined and not an actual sport that formula is going to stick. Period.