Why aren't debuts impactful anymore?

[Mr. HD]

I don't know if this is in the right spot. I have been away for a while after all

Back in the day, debuts were more impactful and the superstars involved were major players within weeks of their debut and left their mark on that night.

Brock Lesnar debuted after WrestleMania 18 and destroyed three superstars. He was WWE Champion by Summerslam.

Rey Mysterio debuted in July of 2002 and had a match with Kurt Angle by Summerslam.

Chris Jericho debuted in August 1999 and interrupted The Rock, who was at the peak of his career and left his mark.

Carlito debuted in October of 2004 and not only interrupted John Cena, who was very popular at that time, but beat him for the United States Championship the same night.

Big Show debuted in 1999 at the St. Valentine's Day Massacre and threw Stone Cold through a Steel Cage.

Kane debuted at Bad Blood 1997, ripped the door off of the Hell in a Cell and tombstoned The Undertaker.

Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko, and Perry Saturn debuted in January 2000 as The Radicalz and Triple H's henchman and were Big Time Players later on with each having matches at WrestleMania.

What I'm trying to say is why aren't debuts impactful and mean something anymore?

Look at the recent debuts of new superstars. People like Damien Sandow, Tensai, Ryback, Brodus Clay.

All Sandow, Tensai, Ryback, and Brodus have done is compete in squash match after squash match. Their debuts have been rather anticlimactic despite the buildup for most. We have yet to see any of these guys in any sort of feuds.

Sandow debuted and walked out of his match. Brodus debuted and squashed I don't even know who. Tensai debuted and squashed Alex Riley, and Ryback debuted and destroyed some jobber. Where are they now? Pretty much doing the same thing.

Why didn't Sandow debut and interrupt Sheamus or something? I'm not saying start a feud with the man, but you interrupt the World Heavyweight Champion, let him know who you are and what you're planning to do on SmackDown and you have heat because you just stepped on the toes of a BIG fan favorite.

If WWE really is serious about moving forward with these guys, more needs to be done. I hope they give Dean Ambrose that impactful debut. Something that makes the people "wow" and makes him leave that mark. Interrupt John Cena, or CM Punk or something. Maybe go Carlito's way and have Dean Ambrose get in the face of Christian and beat him for the Intercontinental Championship that same night.

Something that makes you look at that guy and say, "He's going to be something big!"

Feel free to Comment and Discuss.

 

[TripleMeat]

The last decent debut I could remember was when Alberto Del Rio debuted and beat Rey Mysterio on Smackdown. Honestly I can't say why debuts aren't as special as they use to be.

 

[Ol'Canucklehead]

Aside from Brock which answers itself and Carlito (we all know where that went), all the people you mentioned were established wrestlers elsewhere, It was either WCW or Kane who already had a few gimmicks already. The WWE knew they could go and had confidence in them right away and people already knew them and they didn't need to be built up too much.

As far as Sandow, Tensai, Ryback, and Brodus are concerned they are still feeling them out. I too agree that it's taking long but in this day and age they need to be careful. Sandow is close to a feud, I can feel it. Tensai they absolutely have no idea what to do with him although he did beat Cena which is close to the impact that you describe. For Ryback they think he'll hurt someone and wrestlers are reluctant to get in the ring with him. Brodus well, is doing good with the kids and they'll find him a feud soon too I would presume. They are just looking for the right fit.

Now if a "name" came back you would see a good debut. Angle, RVD, Hardy or if Sting made a run. They trust these wrestlers. Which I think is the answer to your question.

 

[The Brain]

You’ve listed a lot of good examples from the past but I think the majority of debuts are more like Damian Sandow than Brock Lesnar. It all depends on who is debuting. Brock Lesnar was pegged as the next big thing from day one. WWE knew he was going to be their guy so he made an immediate impact. Even though they were new to WWE, fans were familiar with Big Show, Jericho, Mysterio, and the Radicalz so it was easy to get them over right away. Now everyone comes from FCW where the majority of fans have no idea who they are. If Damian Sandow or Brodus Clay had years of exposure working for a company that was viewed at as equal or better than WWE I’m sure their debuts would be more meaningful. Once in a while someone can still have an impactful debut, such as Alberto Del Rio, but without any prior knowledge about the new guys it’s hard to get them over as soon as they debut.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I think the OP was well written and has some decent points. Other than the redebut of Lesnar and the arrival of The Nexus we have not seen much of a big push or spot for anyone in their first six months.

But I think the OP's opinions are coming from a little bit of nostalgia, a different time and a couple of failed examples. The WCW guys were already established and Vince wanted to show the other WCW guys what he could do if they jumped ship. Kane (Glen Jacobs) also worked for McMahon for a while as Isaac Yankem so Vince probably knew he had a good guy to fill that role and succeed. Lesnar and Carlito got big pushes and big moments but also turned out to fizzle too early in their careers. Maybe Vince learned something from this and is more apprehensive about the pushes he gives guys before they pay their dues in the industry.

Also, who is to say WWE doesn't have big plans for these guys for the rest of the year? Cena is running out of guys to beat.

 

[Wrestlefan73]

Easy, several reasons are to blame, but two that I believe has watered down the debut is the internet and lack of competition. Look at today's era when a wrestler is released, WWE for example, puts on their website & twitter that this guy has been released and we wish him well in all his future endeavors and /or moves their profile to the alumni page. Now, we just wait 90 days and 90-95% of the time they shows up at TNA. Then, like the latest Impact Wrestling Show, Tenay & Yaz make an announcement about a new star, then show a video package saying Chavo will debut next week (or whenever it said), so we all know Chavo is coming. Another example is Tensai. Wrestling sites reported Matt Bloom was leaving Japan and going back to WWE weeks before the first Tensai video aired. And as soon as he made his debut, King & Cole were saying he was a former WWE Superstar that went to Japan and has returned.

As far as the wrestlers the OP listed: Brodus debuted on NXT as a monster heel, destroying everybody, then disappeared and came back as a mix of Godfather, Flash Funk, & Rikishi. We remember the monster heel not a disco ball dancing dinosaur. Skip Sheffield debuted on NXT as a goofy cowboy, disappeared and now shows up as an unstoppable monster. Brock fought his last UFC match on a Sat, retired as soon as he lost. Sunday, WWE reported he signed a contract. Sunday, he was seen at WM, Monday, he shows up.......no surprise...we KNEW he was there. Yeah, he got a pop, but when people in the crowd had Brock signs, that says something about why debuts aren't the same as the used to be.

Here is a spoiler for the next debut: About 90 days from now, around Halloween, on an Open Fight Night, Awesome Kong returns to TNA and beats Brooke Tessmacher for the Knockouts title!

 

[ヒュー　G.　レックション]

Well, why isn't anything impactful in wrestling anymore? Haha but I think it's a simple case of paying dues, they don't want the guy to vanish like Brock did without giving back. Also there have been tons of "unimpactful" debuts, where do you think the current roster came from. And yeah majority of your examples was because they were established guys.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I think the two biggest reasons are the Internet and a lack of serious competition.

In the last ten years the internet has absolutely grown by leaps and bounds. It is extremely hard to keep much anything secret in any entertainment business in this day and age. There are a few examples where it helps, like Lesnar coming out post Mania but most of the time it isn't a big deal because guys don't get that surprise pop that often helps a push.

The other reason is a lack of competition. Back when WCW and WWE were neck and neck and ECW was at its height, there were established guys in all three organizations. Now they don't have that. TNA only has a handful of guys that have never wrestled in the WWE, Stlyes, Roode, Storm, Aries, that could debut in the WWE and be instantly over with fans in a way that deserves a big impactful push debut.

 

[vampirek]

Easy, several reasons are to blame, but two that I believe has watered down the debut is the internet and lack of competition. Look at today's era when a wrestler is released, WWE for example, puts on their website & twitter that this guy has been released and we wish him well in all his future endeavors and /or moves their profile to the alumni page. Now, we just wait 90 days and 90-95% of the time they shows up at TNA. Then, like the latest Impact Wrestling Show, Tenay & Yaz make an announcement about a new star, then show a video package saying Chavo will debut next week (or whenever it said), so we all know Chavo is coming. Another example is Tensai. Wrestling sites reported Matt Bloom was leaving Japan and going back to WWE weeks before the first Tensai video aired. And as soon as he made his debut, King & Cole were saying he was a former WWE Superstar that went to Japan and has returned.

As far as the wrestlers the OP listed: Brodus debuted on NXT as a monster heel, destroying everybody, then disappeared and came back as a mix of Godfather, Flash Funk, & Rikishi. We remember the monster heel not a disco ball dancing dinosaur. Skip Sheffield debuted on NXT as a goofy cowboy, disappeared and now shows up as an unstoppable monster. Brock fought his last UFC match on a Sat, retired as soon as he lost. Sunday, WWE reported he signed a contract. Sunday, he was seen at WM, Monday, he shows up.......no surprise...we KNEW he was there. Yeah, he got a pop, but when people in the crowd had Brock signs, that says something about why debuts aren't the same as the used to be.

Here is a spoiler for the next debut: About 90 days from now, around Halloween, on an Open Fight Night, Awesome Kong returns to TNA and beats Brooke Tessmacher for the Knockouts title!

Yet go and watch Jericho's debut, same thing happened. People in the crowd knew Jericho was behind the countdown and would debut at that show. He still got a massive pop. The difference is most crowds suck despending where they are, nothing more. Had Lesnar showed up at Madison Square Garden, the reaction by the fans would have been bigger. That element has been in wrestling for years and years, the internet has hardily changed that. Another example is Goldberg, the WWE told us the fans right after Wrestlemania he would be coming. There was no surprise when he did show up and yet did get the huge pop.

The problem generally lies with most of the examples given of huge pops are names who were already big in the wrestling world. Sure there are some exceptions in Lesnar and Carlito, but these characters just worked for the get go, they had a purpose and a story to go with it. Lesnar the next big thing, Carlito to feud with Cena. Also doesn't help when them midcard titles have lost a lot of steam, that to make the sort of Carlito impact would mean that wrestling winning the World Title and well does anyone want to see this happen?
Now look at those mentioned for the present, Brodus Clay, one minute the right hand man of ADR and then loads of promos about his debut that just never happened and then when it did wasn't anything to do with the promos at all. He serves no purpose but to be light entertainment.
Tensai, it just doesn't work with the audience and the WWE knows this. Sandow just seems to be another wrestler in the midcard.
Ryback is a slow burner, at least he has a purpose and that is beating everything in front of him. The idea is you keep it low for a while until a certain point when a heel takes exception to this. Who knows what the long term purpose of Ryback is, for one they could be building him for Wrestlemania 30 for a streak v streak match with Taker

 

[mrpops]

Various reasons.

-WWE pushes wrestlers no ones heard of so its hard for the crowd to get excited. Your old examples featured alot of established guys from other places.

-The crowds are silent now compared to when wrestling was good. WWE puts out a crap product, so fans respond by....well they dont.

-WWE doesnt build any hype to the next upcoming stars because...well i dont know why. They have such little faith in their stars, they refuse to spend any marketing on them before they debut. Hence lackluster. Only great superstars like jericho get a bunch of cool awesome vingettes.

WWE is still under the mindset that the attitude era had better wrestlers and that their nxt ones are worthless and they debut them like crap. They make them suffer for years before they finally earn their push instead of pushing them right away.

But to be fair, there is very few wrestlers deserving of the mega push. Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar are both 1 in a million and we havnt seen someone of their calibur get that chance.

 

[thebowtiekiller]

i think a big part of it is the crowd is usually dead when they debut a new guy but as people have already said most of the audience dont have any clue who they are they dont care about fcw or whatever they just get told some generic sounding guy is debuting tonight with no back story and nothing particulary intresting about them except they happen to be musclebound or whatever and they expect them to get over with the fans

a good example of how to do a debut is kanes it was built up for weeks in an awesome storyline and then he finally shows up looking scary as hell rips the door off hell in the cell tombstones taker then leaves thats how to get people talking about a debut its much more intresting then having some normal bloke debut have a match against some jobber and win that just doesnt make an impact at all

 

[The mind]

First off, amazing topic...great idea.

Second, I agree that the internet in some respects has watered downed the effectiveness of the "debut" Reading the spoilers has become akin to reading the last page of a mystery novel first. It's no fun when you already know who the killer is.

TNA managed to get Kurt Angle w/o much of the IWC knowing, and that was great.

Something that has been overlooked in this is the loss of the jobber. Now everyone has music, a gimmick, and gets an enterance. There was a time that a new wrestler would debut, and destroy the likes of established WWF enhancement talent like Dusty Wolf, Red Tyler, Steve Lombardi, Barry Horrowitz, Terry Gibbs, and many more. The WWE would be able to really showcase the newer talent as unbeatable, as they would move on to the mid card talent, like Iron Mike Sharpe, Koko B. Ware, Steve Blackman, etc. After that, it was either a main event run, or upper mid card run, mid card run, and so forth. Anyway you look at it, it would generally be several months before a new wrestler would even lose a match.

Now everything is rushed, there is no slow build in anything, from angles to the debuts of new wrestlers. From reading the many post so far I guess its a perfect storm of reasons as to why debuts aren't menaingful anymore.

Excellent topic!

 

[LoudClearVoice]

I agree with the posters saying it's the internet and spoilers that are ruining debuts. These days, it's almost impossible for WWE to hide anything about someone either coming back or debuting. People are following these guys in the indy circuits and FCW and then it leaks when they're coming up. So, by the time the guy is going to debut, everyone either already knows of him and it's no big deal or they've youtubed all his FCW stuff so it's anti-climactic when he debuts in "E."

Another thing too is that WWE rarely has enough confidence in a new guy to put him in a big feud right away. I mean, admittedly, most of these guys may not be ready for the spotlight just yet but rather than have the guy come up and do nothing, how about having a guy come up and be a complimentary piece in a major feud or debut against a midcarder, rather than jobbers.

For example, if Ryback had come in as a disciple to say Big Show or something, I'd be more interested and I'd learn more about the character than simply watching him squash people every week.

 

[rge2010]

I think someone has already hit the nail on the head. The majority of the wrestlers you mentioned were already established. Brock was different because he was legit tough, scary as hell and was going to be pushed as a monster quick and fast.

Brodus Clay and Rybacks were redebuts anyway. They originally debuted on NXT! Maybe that is part of the reason why second time around they were low key debuts.

One recent debut that stands out was Mason Ryans. His debut was pretty cool where he 'attacked' CM Punk.

 

[JaDoE05]

I agree with the OP we need more impactful debuts/builds. Most of the posters above me are focusing way too much on the debut part. The follow up is just as, if not more, important and that was a big part of the OP that people are overlooking.

Also people keep talking about spoilers, people already being established, and the pop they recieve.

Spoilers may affect the pop that a (re)debuting wrestler may get. So what? I don't have the numbers on this, but I don't think they affect it as much as some of you would like to think. When CM Punk came back from his brief hiatus after winning at MITB the pop he recieved was ridiculous. We knew about that before hand. Rey Mysterio returned last Monday and he got a pretty healthy pop. We knew about that. When Chris Jericho came back the crowd went crazy. They cheered for minutes and he didn't say a word. We knew about that.

As far as people already being established and the pop they recieve, who cares? Why does a debut have to be accompanied by a huge pop?

Here's an example that doesn't involve established stars or huge pops and isn't affected by the spoiling of a signing. After a match, during a backstage interview, or while just chilling in the locker room, etc., a fan favorite (Orton, Mysterio, Christian) gets ambushed by debuting wrestler. Fan favorite is injured. Next week backstage announcer catches debuting wrestler and asks for an interview. He grants it (if he's a good talker) or doesn't (either way the story advances). Next week debuting wrestler has a match with someone random and wins (doesn't matter if it's a squash as long as the crowd knows who the losing guy is). Next week another win for the debuting wrestler, but the injured face pops up on the titantron cutting a revenge promo right after the match. This leads to a fued when the injured star returns.

Please don't give WWE creative the benefit of the doubt or allow them to be lazy. It still could be done today, it just takes a little of what they are being paid for.

 

[Kizzani]

This is a very simple answer. Who does WWE market. Kids. Kids are not interested in a new superstar. They see someone new and are like huh who is that guy. There are not T-shirts, not dolls, no merch. The parents that go to the live events and take 3-5 kids would rather be at home doing anything other than watching the show.

WWE needs to push out the kids and bring in the real money. I remember in my hay day as a teen I get a ride out to the Arco Arena and stand in line. (there were no kids out there) Just a bunch of crazy young adult and older adults. Waiting in line to grab tickets.
When we hit the arena it was the same thing very few kids, some filed in later but still they were fans and watched the TV show and when someone new came out we were stoked to have a new person. But then again fruity colors, lame white rapper gimmick and Dinosaurs were not there.
My most recent visit was no to long ago in San Diego, when I arrived it was like a barney concert. I felt like I was walking into chucky chesse, I felt out of place and grown man. I sat next to a father of 2 who lost a bet with his wife and was forced to take 5 kids with him.

 

[Kingofwrestling16]

The last big debut i can remember was Kharma who debuted at Extreme Rulez and took out a big Diva Michelle McCool. Then she kept it up dominating the rest of the diva roster.

I think to make a great debut is the impact the superstar/diva makes.

Kane debuted to go against the Undertaker who was a major player.

Brock Lesnar debuted and became a monster

Goldberg was the unstopabble force in WCW

Even the Undertaker's debut was a great impact because his character was very different then anything else in the industry.

I believe a great debut is the impact they make on the first night that will define if the crowd will get behind them.

 

[Jerry Sandusky]

Anyone catching that Ryback guy lately?

The answer is simple - the faster you come, the faster you go. Alberto was pushed right into main-card action, won the WWE Championship, then lost all his heat.

They changed the formula and are going about it differant now. Its not because of spoilers and what-not its because they are finally realizing they have to INVEST in these guys. Look how Ryback is getting over more and more with the crowd. The dude is obviously about to be the next Goldberg.

They are taking their time these days marinating these guys, and getting the public familiar with him. Not to mention NXT is a huge part of the WWE now with its revolving door of young talent.

The only way I want to see impact these days is from familiarized charactors. The last true great debut we seen was Sheamus, and now his Ginger ass is a babyface, and just generally annoys the shit out of me. He's a very stiff worker and should have been kept in FCW to work on his stiffness in the ring.

So yeah, im down with guys slowly getting their name out there, working hard and actually impressing me for respect.

 

[Midnite Express 2009]

I don't know if this is in the right spot. I have been away for a while after all

Back in the day, debuts were more impactful and the superstars involved were major players within weeks of their debut and left their mark on that night.

Brock Lesnar debuted after WrestleMania 18 and destroyed three superstars. He was WWE Champion by Summerslam.

Rey Mysterio debuted in July of 2002 and had a match with Kurt Angle by Summerslam.

Chris Jericho debuted in August 1999 and interrupted The Rock, who was at the peak of his career and left his mark.

Carlito debuted in October of 2004 and not only interrupted John Cena, who was very popular at that time, but beat him for the United States Championship the same night.

Big Show debuted in 1999 at the St. Valentine's Day Massacre and threw Stone Cold through a Steel Cage.

Kane debuted at Bad Blood 1997, ripped the door off of the Hell in a Cell and tombstoned The Undertaker.

Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko, and Perry Saturn debuted in January 2000 as The Radicalz and Triple H's henchman and were Big Time Players later on with each having matches at WrestleMania.

What I'm trying to say is why aren't debuts impactful and mean something anymore?

Look at the recent debuts of new superstars. People like Damien Sandow, Tensai, Ryback, Brodus Clay.

All Sandow, Tensai, Ryback, and Brodus have done is compete in squash match after squash match. Their debuts have been rather anticlimactic despite the buildup for most. We have yet to see any of these guys in any sort of feuds.

Sandow debuted and walked out of his match. Brodus debuted and squashed I don't even know who. Tensai debuted and squashed Alex Riley, and Ryback debuted and destroyed some jobber. Where are they now? Pretty much doing the same thing.

Why didn't Sandow debut and interrupt Sheamus or something? I'm not saying start a feud with the man, but you interrupt the World Heavyweight Champion, let him know who you are and what you're planning to do on SmackDown and you have heat because you just stepped on the toes of a BIG fan favorite.

If WWE really is serious about moving forward with these guys, more needs to be done. I hope they give Dean Ambrose that impactful debut. Something that makes the people "wow" and makes him leave that mark. Interrupt John Cena, or CM Punk or something. Maybe go Carlito's way and have Dean Ambrose get in the face of Christian and beat him for the Intercontinental Championship that same night.

Something that makes you look at that guy and say, "He's going to be something big!"

Feel free to Comment and Discuss.

This is the most intelligent post I've seen on here in quite a while. So kudos to you for breaking it down the way you did. I agree with everything you said. Also, to just pick up where you left off, everyone knows the spoilers now anyway. Yeah, when Big Show debuted, we all knew he had left WCW but had no idea when he would debut in WWE. When he did, it was a major pop because at the time WCW was really starting their slide down to death and he was one of the 1st to really be big in WCW and leave. Followed by Jericho, The Radicalz and so on.

Nowadays, you already know who's gonna come and usually when. But for the people we really wanna see (Deam Ambrose as an example), they hold off his debut seemingly forever. Then we get stuck with Ryback, er ah, Skip Sheifield, screaming "feed me more" like he's the plant from Little Shops of Horrors, or Tensai having to deal with the constant "Albert" chants. That's not even a debut really, that's a return, for both men. Even Brodus. All three of these people have already debuted, a re-debut is a return. It's not as if we haven't seen these people in WWE. I could see say maybe someone like Bobby Roode, who's never wrestled in WWE. Even though we already know who he is, he would be a "debut" person, but I doubt WWE wouldn't find a way to screw that all up either.

I remember when Nikita Koloff 1st debuted in Mid-Atlantic back in late 1984. It was so cool on how Ivan Koloff mentioned off-handed that his nephew was coming. A few weeks later, there he was. You don't get that anymore. It's all over the internet 4 weeks before the guy gets there, so it's like, yawn, I knew he was coming anyway. Who all saw Scott Hall coming to WCW in May 1996? Not I. Just my thoughts...

 

[xJER1CH0H0L1Cx]

Debuts aren't very impactful anymore for 2 main reasons. First of all, the booking has to fit the character and actually mean something. New guys just end up winning for a couple weeks and just job out after that. The guys who DO keep winning are people who tend to not be cared about too often. But wins and losses don't matter as long as they are used to further a storyline properly. (Though, I still think Jericho should have gone over at WM and then dropped the title back to Punk in Chicago.) Second of all, SPOILERS RUIN DEBUTS. If we didn't know who was going to debut weeks in advance, a debut would mean so much more and we'd probably judge debuts a bit less viciously based on the fact that we'd be riding the wave of the debut for weeks on end.

 

[The Brain]

Here's an example that doesn't involve established stars or huge pops and isn't affected by the spoiling of a signing. After a match, during a backstage interview, or while just chilling in the locker room, etc., a fan favorite (Orton, Mysterio, Christian) gets ambushed by debuting wrestler. Fan favorite is injured. Next week backstage announcer catches debuting wrestler and asks for an interview. He grants it (if he's a good talker) or doesn't (either way the story advances). Next week debuting wrestler has a match with someone random and wins (doesn't matter if it's a squash as long as the crowd knows who the losing guy is). Next week another win for the debuting wrestler, but the injured face pops up on the titantron cutting a revenge promo right after the match. This leads to a fued when the injured star returns.

Please don't give WWE creative the benefit of the doubt or allow them to be lazy. It still could be done today, it just takes a little of what they are being paid for.

Your scenario is all well and good for one guy. What about the next guy? If the new kid on the block just attacked or called out an established star for his debut that would get old. After a little while people wouldn't care and it would be same old, same old. At least debuting the way Sandow and Ryback have makes sense. New guy starts at the bottom and works his way up. It seems strange to people because it's one of the few logical things in an illogical world. I am a fan of the pre debut vignettes. At least with those we are familiar with the new guy's personality before we see him wrestle on tv. It's nice to have a big debut once in a while with the new guy going after a big star but it shouldn't happen often.

 

[Ol'Canucklehead]

I think the real problem is that fans now a days get a hard on for some new guy that hasn't proven anything and expect him to be champion in 3 weeks. Sorry but it doesn't work that way. Even Goldberg had to win 75 matches before becoming a champion (US).

 

[HBKistheHOF]

Because WWE only debuts people in 2 fashions anymore:

1.) Be Dominant in the ring & perform no defense - The Squash matches by Ryback, Cesaro, Tensai, & Brodus.

2.) Have Promos of the new "Superstar" fortelling their "Destiny" - The videos by Del Rio, Sandow, & even Sin Cara to a non-vocal point.

When was the last time a superstar debuted at a PPV and made an impact like Rocky Maivia or Undertaker???

When was the last time a tag team was given time to develop and a true star is born like HBK or Edge???

When was the last time a guy was given an original gimmick and time to display & develop technique in the ring with believeable opponenets like HHH or Stone Cold??

Okay well maybe Savio Vega isn't a believeable opponent but WWE is too stale with debuts.

Even guys that came up even CLOSE to the ways I mentioned like Cody Rhodes, The Miz & Zack Ryder coming from tag teams. Or even a Wade Barrett or Dolph Ziggler that slowly developed and have been given time to come into their own more and demonstrate their skills. Those are all the guys that are truely over.

I'm shocked Punk and Bryan are over for as much as Punk was buried in the past and for how Bryan was fired/hired many times and has been basically a joke at mania and as world champion. Either way THANK GOD the crowd got them there!

 

[IT Factor]

To be quite frank and honest here, I believe debuts aren't impactful for many reasons;

1}Lack of actual stars:
WWE does not create real stars anymore. They have alot of new talent and people in whom they can hedge their bets on. But, ask yourself who is a real star? Aside from maybe CM Punk, John Cena, Randy Orton, and Jericho there are no real bonafide stars. No guys that really leap out at you and command your attention like in wrestling's glory days. There are no more larger than life characters with whom people can identify with and really get behind. There are people who have great matches and people who the audience know because of their mic work. No real stars though. Most of the big names have either retired, died, or went elsewhere. Then you have guys like Triple H and The Undertaker who are still stars but are limited in their appearances and who really don't contribute on a regular basis. Also, you have The Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin. But they are more focused on acting and outside interests not related to WWE or wrestling.

2}WWE doesn't create new stars and make them consistent:
You have several people on a massive list of which WWE have tried to debut or push. Jack Swagger, Sheamus, Drew McIntyre, Dolph Ziggler, Cody Rhodes, Ted DiBiase. All of these guys have been debuted, used to various degrees, and in some cases depushed with little or no explaination. You can trace this phobia back to the Brock Lesnar departure back in 2004. WWE have became mistrustful of their own talents that they fear they will make them a star and that they'll either quit or simply not resign and go elsewhere. While this may be a smart business practice, it does nothing to start establishing the new generation of stars. And as long as WWE doesn't give 100% to doing everything possible to helping create new stars, debuts will just be a formality. No real impact will be made because these same talents will probably be missing from television 6 months later or released pretty soon. The ones who do last will probably get little or sporatic television time, thus confusing the audience or at least making these guys seem second-rate. If you don't invest into these new talents and take the risk, you will get no reward.

3}Lack of competition/no territories:
As many veterans have mentioned in various dvd projects, they used to hone their crafts in different territories in the old days and learn their strengths/weaknesses. This helped green rookies improve simply by trial and error. It also went a long way in making true stars because by the time they reached WWE, they were battle tested and ready to become famous. All that was needed is the opportunity and push to create that next breakout star. Nowadays, the closest you get to that is the indy scene or maybe the FCW. Some even go to Japan. Although Japan isn't really a great place to assimulate into WWE's style of working, much like Mexico's style with Sin Cara. People made in those foreign places are used to working a different pace and style of match and once they get that emblazened in them, it's hard to transition into WWE's style. Territories were a great way to teach upcoming talents respect for their business and also train them for what was to come[if they stuck around any amount of time].

Which brings you to lack of real competition. While Impact Wrestling has made a few good first steps, they still have a long way to go before they can truly be considered direct competition for WWE. They are really an alternative for now and that affects how WWE fails on capatilizing on making new stars. If there isn't any company gaining on you, you really don't have to create stars. Back when WWF was staring down the prospect of losing the Monday Night Wars with WCW, it was essential to survival to create big name stars to even stay afloat. That urgency has been gone since WWE lost any major threats and this translates into failed to make stars. They have nothing to lose if a talent fails because they are complacent that it won't hurt them in the long run.

There are probably more factors as well, but, those major three reasons are the biggest ones why debuts suck. No one has immediate impact because WWE has been on auto pilot since WCW & ECW went under. They don't fear for their survival so that changes their view of needing to create more rapidly and when they do attempt, they usually change their minds and fail to follow through. Until WWE can address major issues or even acknowledge their problems at all, they'll continue to be in major denial and stop truly making stars that people wanna pay to see.

 

[FightOwensFight]

I will have to agree with The Brain and others in that the main difference in your examples is the level of performer. Jericho, Big Show, Mysterio, etc were all established. When they debuted the announcer reaction was "Oh my God, that is Paul White/Chris Jericho/whatever". That same entrance or reaction for an unknown would be ridiculous. The only way you can really debut someone now is through the vignettes, the two best, most recent examples being Del Rio and Sandow. I would have to believe that if AJ Styles jumped ship it would be a bigger deal and more of a "Can you believe he is here?" reaction after he calls out Punk or something. Though, I guess it is just as likely Vince would send him to FCW for a year