Why Are We Still Unhappy?

[robinkom]

As a PG product, one has to realize the parallels here with the 80s and early-90s Federation Years. That's essentially what it is now, just a little more sophisticated and grandiose. That's when I began watching the show (sometime between 1991 & 1993).

As much as I loved the Attitude Era, we're not going back to that, not unless another multi-billion dollar competitor can put Vince's back to the wall. In the grand scheme of it, the Attitude Era was really just a diversion from "business as usual"; Hence, it is much easier to compare now with the Federation years.

My major dissatisfaction with the WWE product is the "Divas" and I hate that term. I'm sick and tired of these models and ex-dancers with no prior wrestling experience being showcased simply because of their looks. They are all basically the Ultimate Warrior... all entrance and looks and, once the bell rings, it's over. It's 2012 and even the most casual fan is beginning to realize how absolutely atrocious they are in the ring when they're simultaneously being treated to good wrestling matches by their male counterparts. Beth, Natalya, Tamina, and AJ are the only real wrestlers in the women's division and they get almost no exposure if they're not being used to put over one of the Barbie dolls.

Of course, the reason we get up to take a piss break when they come out for their matches solely lies in the fault of Johnny Ace, he hired them after all.

Other than that, the Tag-Team division still needs some work but they're getting there slowly but surely. Since Vicki Guererro is pretty much the only manager of a traditional sense, I think she needs a good Heel Tag-Team in her stable. Gotta have good heels (preferably with the straps) to put over your babyface team. It's the simplest formula but they always seem to over-think, over-plan, and ultimately eff the whole thing up. They can spout their "Sports Entertainment" tripe and McMahon terminology all they want, it's still pro-wrestling at it's core.

 

[The Brain]

The product is based for children so why am I going to like it as much as back in the attitude era. they through the loyal fans for decades an r rated bone every now and then to keep us watching but IMO that isn't enough to keep my interest.

After Mania 28 this year I think I'm going to take a break from wrestling all together and only return if the product becomes something that is not an insult to my intelligence. As long as Cena is being Superman and having his face everywhere, and they are pandering to the kids to get a new fan base they won't be getting my money. And why should they if they are not giving me what I want to see. I'd rather spend it on something I'm going to enjoy. i have spent 25 years watching WWE programing faithfully and getting most of the PPV's since 1993. I've given the company plenty of chances to entertain me, and helped make them the #1 wrestling company in the world with my loyal viewing and buying most of their ppv's. It's up to them now if they want me and people like me back. After everything I have done for them this is how they treat the loyalist, by throwing us a bone every now and then to keep us watching. I say too little too late. If you're going to make the product childish then I'll take my money elsewhere. Once Mania 28 is over it's bye, bye WWE for me.

Defending todays WWE product, and putting down everything that came before which was 100 times better will only make a person look pathetic and uneducated. All grown ups know that todays product is garbage compared to what it use to be. If you have the mind of a child, though you may enjoy it.(lol)

Seriously? Do I really have to point out the obvious to you? Think about it for a minute. You liked wrestling twenty plus years ago. Now you don't because it is catered toward kids. Newsflash; it was catered toward kids back then too. Maybe, just maybe you didn't notice it and you enjoyed it because you were a kid back then. Other than a brief period in the late 90s wrestling has always catered toward kids. Do you think Big Bird should be involved in more adult oriented storylines to please you? If you stick with a kids program into adulthood you should realize you probably won't appreciate it as much. As long as Cena is Superman, has his face everywhere, and pandering to kids, they won't get your money. But it was ok when it was Hogan? Sure it was. Because you were a kid.

The reason the IWC won't ever be happy is because it is made up of thousands of people. How do you expect so many people to be in agreement over anything? For every person that was begging for a Ryder push there was a person who doesn't give a damn about him. You can't satisfy the IWC because they are a collection of individuals who have their own preferences.

 

[Jackal960]

In the past 2-3 years, we (The IWC) have wanted to see alot of change in the product that is WWE. Let's have a look...

- New talents to take over the main events

- New talents to bring prestige to the championships

- Overall better wrestling matches

- PPV's which were generally better and had more then one drawing match

- 'Indy' favourites to make it on the big stage

- Better storylines

- Better extreme wrestling

- Better womens and tag divisions

Two things:
1) As The Brain mentioned, you can't expect thousands of people think the same at the same time. Someone like me won't give a damn about Ryder, some other guy can't wait for him to show up every week. To give an example, even in the greatest managed country in the world, you will have the opposition who won't like what the government does, and there will be millions following them. IWC is somewhat the same. IWC is not a linear thought who has certain opinion about things. IWC doesn't consist of people who think the same. IWC, as D-Man mentioned, consists of lots of groups. IWC consists of people who hate todays show. IWC consists of people who hate Attitude Era. IWC also consists of people who want Hogan back. More than anything, IWC consists of poeple with different tastes. I will love the same product you hate and we will bot claim we are IWC.

2) Complaining about things is not that bad after all. The points that you mentioned have changed during the years and I think WWE got better because of these changes. So, just because someone is complaining, doesn't mean that he has no grounds to complain. When WWE does make some changes it makes the overall show better, which makes everyone happy. Giving more prestige to a belt won't ever hurt. Improving a division can't be bad either. So the point is, just because we compain, doesn't make our complains unnecessary. Some of them, obviously not all of them, will have valid points. And those points will make the product only to get better. So complaining is not that bad I think, if you have the ground to back it up.

 

[King of the Words]

Just a shout out to those grown ups out there who watch WWE today and are okay with it... May I ask why you like the same programing we watched as kids? Do you also watch Saturday morning cartoons every week? Of course not. It is okay to watch something that brings your mind back to childhood days and all which is why I still watch WWE. But if they are planning on staying PG for the forseable future, why should I continue to watch. I'm too mature to watch this type of programing on a regular basis. It is meant for the kids, we all know that, and I am not a kid anymore so after Mania 28 I`m done with it until the next time they do an adult level of programing, and if you are in the same boat I`m in then I suggest you follow my lead. The WWE throws us a R Rated bone once in a while to keep us watching and buying the PPV`s on a monthly basis. For me it isn`t enough but rather a slap in the face, so I`m not going to continue to make Vince rich for a product that insults my intelligence. I hope the kids are as loyal as guys like me are and keep the WWE going for the next 25 years. But I doubt that will happen. there is so many things to entertain kids and teens these days that they will never have the passion for wrestling that my generation has. Vince is slapping the face of his most loyal fans with this PG era, so I hope for the bussiness`s sake he knows what he`s doing. You can have the Pg era and get new fans in the kids and the people who think like kids. But if you want the real adult viewers back you are going to have to offer us something that we actually are interested in. If WWE is so big and great why can`t they have a show for the adults and a show for the kids. If they really want the adults to keep watching and paying then they will have to give us an adult level show which is worth watching. I mean Sesame Street has been on since I was a kid and I watched it as a kid, but I`m not going to watch it now as an adult, as long as it is still made for kids. That wouldn`t make any sense. If I was watching it with a son or daughter then maybe I could get through it, but I would not watch it on a regular basis for my own personal entertainment because I`m an adult now and I require more stimulating entertainment for my brain, as should all average intelectual adults. Why would you give away you`re precious time and money to a product that you don`t find entertaining anymore. You wouldn`t, would you. That`s all Im saying. If WWE wants my business they will have to step up their programing to an adult level. the ball is in their court now. How hard will they try to keep my generation watching, only time will tell I guess. If Vince wants us as life long fans he cant expect us to be entertained by what is entertaining the kids these days. Does he think we are stupid, because were not, and it will show in the decrease in ratings. Were not kids anymore Vince, and we deserve to have our intelligence respected if you expect us to keep watching.

 

[wrestlingfanatic98]

Anyone who supports a big sports side, builds a side that was that good, when standards drop then there is a huge problem. I made a topic on the 2000 roster, when your midcard talent consists of benoit, Y2J, Angle and eddie, then some fans will not be happy on the poor booking with the midcard and tag division

 

[Peoples_Champ]

I can't speak for the rest of the IWC, but I'm actually enjoying the product these days. I've come to enjoy Cena for what he brings to the program, I love the entertainment features and I mark out from time to time. It's easy to be cynical about everything all the time, which is all the IWC is.

I don't want to see the 80s wrestling return, I don't want to see the early 90s return (my favourite wrestling era), I don't want to see the Attitude Era return (I actually didn't like it very much), and I ignored WWE for most of the past decade. But I am enjoying the current PG-oriented product for what it is.

I think the IWC will appreciate the current product once they realize that the past is in the past.

 

[dman1373]

I can't speak for the rest of the IWC, but I'm actually enjoying the product these days. I've come to enjoy Cena for what he brings to the program, I love the entertainment features and I mark out from time to time. It's easy to be cynical about everything all the time, which is all the IWC is.

I don't want to see the 80s wrestling return, I don't want to see the early 90s return (my favourite wrestling era), I don't want to see the Attitude Era return (I actually didn't like it very much), and I ignored WWE for most of the past decade. But I am enjoying the current PG-oriented product for what it is.

I think the IWC will appreciate the current product once they realize that the past is in the past.

I don't hate the product because i want it to be like any other time period. I don't hate it because its pg. I don't even hate it because of cena. I hate it because of how badly it is written and how badly it is executed. For the past couple monthes its been shit. And i know its not because I its the pg era because a month before mitb untill the the night of champions it was great. Its not just because of punk, but because of how good they were booking. And look at the ppvs mitb and summerslam. Great ppvs. So the thing is they can do it. But after night of champions it feels like they fell to an alltime low. They made extremely crappy episodes that got really hard to watch (and i am talking about raw as smackdown has been very consistant with being good.) They made crappy matches with crappy promos, even kane coming back they f'ed up with this hate thing.

But then this past weeks raw came on and gave me hope. It was a really good episode that i didn't have to fast forward. So the reason i dont like it is because i know they can do better.

 

[SmarkySmark84]

This should be fun.

At the end of the day, the IWC is an organic and useful tool that provides a lot of things. Sure we complain, but it (in my personal opinion) keeps WWE on their toes now that there is no real competition in the wrestling market. We are the voice of dissent and discontent because, let's face it, no matter how good certain aspects of the product are, it can always get better. There's always room to improve.

Right now the company is pushing two Internet darlings as the champs with Punk and Bryan (which IS fantastic). Zack Ryder is on TV because the IWC demanded it. They're trying to give us shades of what we say we loved so much in the Attitude Era; Punk/Laurinitas is the new Austin/McMahon, and so far I'm on board with it.

So why aren't we happy, you ask? A LOT of reasons.

People say the IWC is fickle (it's true) but so is WWE. They continue to prove, time and time again, that they still know how to BUILD interest in a character or storyline, but more often than not they don't know how to maintain it. Case in point: CM Punk. He was (and still is, in my mind) the hottest prospect in YEARS after his infamous promo this summer. He came hot off a great program with Cena looking like a million bucks, but then for reasons I can't even BEGIN to fathom they derailed his momentum with... Kevin NASH? In 2011. Kevin "Finger-Poke of Doom" Nash. And THEN they busted out the inevitable shovel and had Triple H go over him at Night of Champions. What was the point in this? And they wonder why Punk isn't the ratings draw they need him to be, when for two straight weeks, as the WWE Champion, he pulled mid-show match duty and had very little to no mic time (this past week being an exception). Make no mistake, Punk's booking since NoC should have been handled a LOT better.

Don't even get me started on the whole "Anonymous RAW General Manager" dead-end angle. Keep teaching your audience that their invested interest may or may not ever pay off, WWE. Way to go.

Also, it doesn't help that the Attitude Era conditioned an entire generation of fans to root for the anti-hero. We haven't had a true anti-hero in YEARS. Why do you think Punk is so popular now?

 

[itssoeasy123]

Just a shout out to those grown ups out there who watch WWE today and are okay with it... May I ask why you like the same programing we watched as kids? Do you also watch Saturday morning cartoons every week? Of course not. It is okay to watch something that brings your mind back to childhood days and all which is why I still watch WWE. But if they are planning on staying PG for the forseable future, why should I continue to watch. I'm too mature to watch this type of programing on a regular basis. It is meant for the kids, we all know that, and I am not a kid anymore so after Mania 28 I`m done with it until the next time they do an adult level of programing, and if you are in the same boat I`m in then I suggest you follow my lead. The WWE throws us a R Rated bone once in a while to keep us watching and buying the PPV`s on a monthly basis. For me it isn`t enough but rather a slap in the face, so I`m not going to continue to make Vince rich for a product that insults my intelligence. I hope the kids are as loyal as guys like me are and keep the WWE going for the next 25 years. But I doubt that will happen. there is so many things to entertain kids and teens these days that they will never have the passion for wrestling that my generation has. Vince is slapping the face of his most loyal fans with this PG era, so I hope for the bussiness`s sake he knows what he`s doing. You can have the Pg era and get new fans in the kids and the people who think like kids. But if you want the real adult viewers back you are going to have to offer us something that we actually are interested in. If WWE is so big and great why can`t they have a show for the adults and a show for the kids. If they really want the adults to keep watching and paying then they will have to give us an adult level show which is worth watching. I mean Sesame Street has been on since I was a kid and I watched it as a kid, but I`m not going to watch it now as an adult, as long as it is still made for kids. That wouldn`t make any sense. If I was watching it with a son or daughter then maybe I could get through it, but I would not watch it on a regular basis for my own personal entertainment because I`m an adult now and I require more stimulating entertainment for my brain, as should all average intelectual adults. Why would you give away you`re precious time and money to a product that you don`t find entertaining anymore. You wouldn`t, would you. That`s all Im saying. If WWE wants my business they will have to step up their programing to an adult level. the ball is in their court now. How hard will they try to keep my generation watching, only time will tell I guess. If Vince wants us as life long fans he cant expect us to be entertained by what is entertaining the kids these days. Does he think we are stupid, because were not, and it will show in the decrease in ratings. Were not kids anymore Vince, and we deserve to have our intelligence respected if you expect us to keep watching.

Intelligence respected?

I watch WWE to be entertained, plain and simple. I don't watch it to critique, explain, and analyze over matches or storlyines, I just want to be entertained. That's what wrestling is, entertainment, you not suupoed to take it seriously, because it's not even real. It's a television show with characters and storylines.

And I don't get why you wouldn't watch WWE only because kids are watching it. First of all, it's PG, not G. The Rocky Series was PG, WCW during the Monday Night Wars was PG, Smackdown has ALWAYS been PG. Just because it's PG doesn't mean it's just for kids. WWE only had a treu teenager/adult audience in the late 90's, but that's the thing, they were either in their teens or older, WWE doesn't expect those people to watch WWE forever. Going for a more family-oriented show is better because it's for the whole family. Cena is for the kids, CM Punk is for the teens, it works.

By the way, I'm 21 years old and have been watching wrestling for 8 1/2 years.

 

[King of the Words]

If you haven`t been watching WWE for at least 10 years then you really don`t know anything besides the current product and have nothing to compare it to. IMO. By saying WWE PG is for every one is buying into exactly what WWE wants you to think. If this programing floats your boat and you`re an adult then I don`t know what to think. These days kids are so descenceatised that not even they should be buying into this lame WWE pg product. Its hard to see them go from playing a war video game to watching pg wrestling and liking it. Hopefully after Linda loses, again, WWE will smarten up and giving us a product worth watching.

 

[SmarkySmark84]

Hopefully after Linda loses, again, WWE will smarten up and giving us a product worth watching.

That's a bit harsh. Look, I'm firmly in the "PG ties one hand behind WWE's back" camp, but the current product still has some worthwhile gems. I don't think they'll ever change the rating in a post-Benoit world, not so much because of Linda's political aspirations (although that's also a factor) but because of the PR shitstorm they'd open themselves up to. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.

 

[Suibon]

If you haven`t been watching WWE for at least 10 years then you really don`t know anything besides the current product and have nothing to compare it to.

Guilty, sire, of so many things you daren't even squeal. *raises hand* Been watching the WWE for a few months or so. But do not fear - I'm not going to spout off indignant nonsense.

By saying WWE PG is for every one is buying into exactly what WWE wants you to think.

Considering that just about every sector riled up about the Attitude era and its excess of blood and gore and shit a decade ago is now greeting John Cena and his PG era with open waving arms - if somebody's doing the brainwashing, it sure ain't the WWE.


​

If this programing floats your boat and you`re an adult then I don`t know what to think.

Well, if you ask my opinion

*waits for the Rock, and*

there is a lot of good and a lot of bad with the way things are run, but are the bad things (faltering tag team division, brain-dead divas division, meh mid-card, dead-end storylines) offshoots of the PG era? No.

These days kids are so descenceatised that not even they should be buying into this lame WWE pg product.

'Descenceatised'? Eh?

It's hard to see them go from playing a war video game to watching pg wrestling and liking it.

I'm a girl, off my teens, and a practicing Roman Catholic. So I'm off my rocker, whatever that means.
​

 

[MizMark]

The main reason I get annoyed with the current product is that WWE does not build up main event heels, and makes the majority of them 'chickenshit' heels.

Mark Henry and Kane are the only believable heels in company right now.

Dolph Ziggler is nearly there but then he will job clean to Punk/Cena and it takes heat off him.

So many heels right now, Miz, Daniel Bryan, Swagger, Del Rio, Christian, all have been World Champions in the past year or so and all of them were shit on while champion at some stage, Miz to a lesser extent, but none of them were built up in a way where you'd pay to wach Cena/Punk/Orton beat them.

If WWE built Del Rio up and made him look like a badass, faces were tapping out to his arm bar and he looked unbeatable, then they are far more likely to pay to watch Cena or Punk try and take the title off him than if he is made to look weak for weeks by either of them going into the PPV.

Far too often WWE will have a face love fest, or revert to campy comedy, and I just wish they'd actually build stars up properly, make them seem relevant and then use them in a proper feud.

 

[Marv95]

If you haven`t been watching WWE for at least 10 years then you really don`t know anything besides the current product and have nothing to compare it to. IMO. By saying WWE PG is for every one is buying into exactly what WWE wants you to think. If this programing floats your boat and you`re an adult then I don`t know what to think. These days kids are so descenceatised that not even they should be buying into this lame WWE pg product. Its hard to see them go from playing a war video game to watching pg wrestling and liking it. Hopefully after Linda loses, again, WWE will smarten up and giving us a product worth watching.

Because it is? Did you not try to watch WCW? Do you not watch most sitcoms and drama series? Have you watched Smackdown for 10 years? Because they're PG too. You confuse TV-PG with TV-G. There's a difference between family-friendly and kid-friendly. Problem is WWE tries too much to pander and cater to the latter. And I got news for you: until Mattel leaves the rating isn't going away. Doesn't matter if Linda runs for Senate or stars in porno flicks. Mattel(after the Benoit thing) is the reason for the rating.

That's a bit harsh. Look, I'm firmly in the "PG ties one hand behind WWE's back" camp, but the current product still has some worthwhile gems.

The guy in your avatar thrived when wrestling was "PG".

 

[Stallion123]

The reason I'm unhappy is because it is still a broken show that lasts 2 hours and thats a lot of time for whats broken to shine through. Every raw has a Divas match and it embarrasses me that I'm watching it, so it is going to piss me off that no ones put any time into it. Hell seriously just think of one story line for the divas division right now and you would be doing a better job than the people who work there. If they booked a decent feud involving Pheonix or Neidhart and some one who can actually wrestle, not just some big titted bimbo, I wouldn't feel embarrassed for watching such garbage. The tag devision is a joke and every time theres a tag team match it shines through. Theres always the tag champs with no competition, every week they face some random mix of guys or a legit tag team that never gets off nxt or superstars so in my mind they still aren't real competition. It's pathetic, build up some tag teams, have ones have matches for number one contender. I know the live audience wants to see the champs but they have the belts they dont need more legitimacy and every other tag team does. If we actually saw Primo and Epico cut a promo or two and win some matches(and I mean not one or two) against other tag teams for a wile.

Yes every one on the internet will always have something to bitch about, its very tre, and every one wants the glory days back. But I also thing the contributing problem to every ones unhappiness is that the overall whole product you get from wwe doesn't work. They dont just sell you what works, they sell you the whole show and no one likes getting a broken product.

The problem is Diva's wrestling and tag team wrestling isn't what really draws. They have it because they've always had it in some form, but it's not what people rush to see. I agree they should have some sort of actual division, and they've proven when Jerishow and Showmiz were champs that it could be done, but I can see why they havn't been doing it.

As far as the IWC goes, I agree with alot of the posters here, there's just no making them happy. Zach Ryder gets a push, and all of a sudden he's hated. Even the live crowds started booing him. Here's a guy the iwc wanted pushed, who used youtube to gain popularity, and the fans decide "Nah not into him" after wanting it. It's part of the reason why you don't see much change, when they do give the change, it's not accepted so they go with what works.

 

[SmarkySmark84]

The guy in your avatar thrived when wrestling was "PG".

It was also a time when Air Supply was popular and Coke tasted like shit, so that's not really saying much.

"PG" was a different thing in the 80's and early 90's. It wasn't until after Gremlins came out in 1984 that the MPAA adopted PG-13 as a rating between PG and R, and practically everything was PG unless it dropped F-bombs and starred Arnold Schwarzenegger. In fact, remember when Jake the Snake tied up Macho Man in the ropes and had a cobra bite him on the fucking arm? That shit was traumatizing to six-year-old me. Still considered "PG" for the times though, but I say that one moment in particular was more hardcore than anything ECW ever pulled.

 

[juggalotus]

Its just human nature to complain about everything and anything. Complaining about things in pro wrestling will stop when pro wrestling ends, which sure isn't anytime soon.

 

[Scofield]

In the past 2-3 years, we (The IWC) have wanted to see alot of change in the product that is WWE. Let's have a look...

- New talents to take over the main events

- New talents to bring prestige to the championships

- Overall better wrestling matches

- PPV's which were generally better and had more then one drawing match

- 'Indy' favourites to make it on the big stage

- Better storylines

- Better extreme wrestling

- Better womens and tag divisions

Well we have new young and entertaining talents in the main events/picture, the midcard titles have become interesting again, PPV's have become worth the money we're paying and usually have consistently entertaining matches, both brands are alot more entertaining to watch, the storylines (However not always great) have improved alot, and we even have indy favourites D-Bry and CM Punk with the two major titles!

So apart from excessive weapon violence, a decent divas division and a good tag team division, It's all there - everything the IWC seems to have wanted these past few years. However, having less extreme matches helps them become more meaningful and enjoyable, giving them a 'wow' factor. It also helps build intensity to rivalries which lack in the 'wow' factor. The tag team division is still in the slum, but the WWE tried to fix it with Air Boom, and were actually having regular appearances and were a good draw until Bourne decided to participate in some 'extracurricular' activities. The divas division also looks hopeless, but let's be honest, who at this point really wants to see less of Ziggler, Punk, Rhodes etc so that we have to watch more divas matches? (I'm not saying that I don't enjoy womens wrestling, but atm it's pretty awful).

I'm pretty sure that judging from all of this, the WWE does listen, and has done ALOT to try and satisfy the IWC. Sure we have a few holes here and there, but if you compare the products from the past 3 years, 2011-present has really satisfied alot of our wants to a certain degree. We forget sometimes that the product isn't just specifically written for keyboard warriors. Personally, there was a period of time between 2007-2010 in which I couldn't really enjoy either RAW or SD, but now I not only enjoy, but look forward to watching WWE weekly.

I guess you could say that alot of us still put 80's-90's on a pedestal, and so alot us in the IWC watch and compare the product rather then REALLY watching it and trying to see the shows for what they are - just generally good entertainment. It's difficult to enjoy something when all you want to do is critique it, for whatever reason. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. You might not enjoy every episode of your favourite sitcom, but you may still enjoy it! It shouldn't be THAT bad that judging from the criticism from alot of people on this site that it seems to be ruining your day!

So I ask you now, even though the WWE is giving us so much to offer; why are we still unhappy?

Discuss.

From my experience of watching the posts on here for many years. Nothing could please the IWC. You could have CM Punk win the World Heavyweight Championship unify it with the WWE after beating Daniel Bryan & Kurt Angle in a Triple Threat unification match or have Melina tag teamed by the Spirit Squad live on RAW and the IWC would still find something to bitch about. Granted the IWC knows their stuff, but from what I seen they get too carried away with their fantasy and completely forget about logic.

Other than the consistent boner for IWC poster boys like Dolph Ziggler or the incoherent bashing of Cena (NOT a Cena fan myself, quite dislike him also but also see the positives in Cena)...other than all of that I have seen some completely ridiculous thoughts & ideas being shared on here regarding booking decisions and fantasy storylines. I am surprised no one has suggested a handcuffs on a pole match between Chyna & Vince McMahon at Wrestlemania where Chyna gets to cuff McMahon to the ropes and takes a dump on him.

A real wrestling fan or IWC fan or whatever you care to call it will see the positives aswell as the negatives & be happy with at least one or two things the WWE is doing...the very subject you happen to be either BITCHING about or loving.

 

[CH David]

Why is the IWC still unhappy? Because the IWC is full of fucking morons that's why. Everyone is so fickle in their opinion that they will change as soon as the masses do. People were clamoring, fucking clamoring for the Rock to come back. "He was so fucking amazing with the mic skills that he will out-mic anyone!!! He came back, but his skills aren't that good anymore! Cena is better than Rock!" Like for real? Quit being a fickle bitch, and stick to your own opinions. Rock came back and I'm still ecstatic. Punk is the champ and I'm still overly excited for him. Cena isn't around the title but people say he needs it now! REALLY?!

It goes with anything. The IWC is all about flavor of the month. Once that person gets to popular the group turns and says "oh my God he sucks!!!!". Once you come up with your own opinion and can separate yourself from being a follower of the crowd to someone with independent thought, though potentially similar opinions, you'll enjoy the product more. When I turn it on I rather enjoy it. Why? Because it's not something meant to be taken too seriously. It's pro wrestling for fuck's sake. I don't put much stock in what a douche Johnny Ace probably is in real life. I pay attention to the product on the tv. So long as Cole isn't an annoying loser and distracts me.

 

[Scofield]

Why is the IWC still unhappy? Because the IWC is full of fucking morons that's why. Everyone is so fickle in their opinion that they will change as soon as the masses do. People were clamoring, fucking clamoring for the Rock to come back. "He was so fucking amazing with the mic skills that he will out-mic anyone!!! He came back, but his skills aren't that good anymore! Cena is better than Rock!" Like for real? Quit being a fickle bitch, and stick to your own opinions. Rock came back and I'm still ecstatic. Punk is the champ and I'm still overly excited for him. Cena isn't around the title but people say he needs it now! REALLY?!

It goes with anything. The IWC is all about flavor of the month. Once that person gets to popular the group turns and says "oh my God he sucks!!!!". Once you come up with your own opinion and can separate yourself from being a follower of the crowd to someone with independent thought, though potentially similar opinions, you'll enjoy the product more. When I turn it on I rather enjoy it. Why? Because it's not something meant to be taken too seriously. It's pro wrestling for fuck's sake. I don't put much stock in what a douche Johnny Ace probably is in real life. I pay attention to the product on the tv. So long as Cole isn't an annoying loser and distracts me.

Couldn't have said it any better!!

I hear alot with the IWC about, CM Punk v Stone Cold would be a dream match up etc etc etc. Watch it come around where they do have a match up that isn't half bad but not a classic and then the IWC would bitch about how it sucked when they were the ones who clamoured for it in the first place.

Another prime example:

"Daniel Bryan not being pushed enough"

"Daniel Bryan should be World heavyweight Champion"


Well what happens......they start pushing Daniel Bryan, surprise us all by having him win MITB....pull out the surprise factor and have him actually win the WHC at TLC. Fullfill every internet nerd wrestling fans fantasy in having a former RoH alumni win the big one in WWE...and for once not having the typical WWE big guy run with the ball and what does the IWC do?

BITCH.

 

[wrestlingfanatic98]

Very good points and a well drawn up argument. I have to say that I feel like the current dissatisfaction from the IWC is baffling. Cena is starting to change his character up thanks to his current storyline with Kane, so the character is fresher. Younger guys are in the main event, which is needed to keep the main event itself fresh. The only problems are the divas and the tag team divisions, though the tag team division was close. I just want to know why so many people were wondering why Ryder didn't get a push of some kind, only to turn around and bash him when he got the push. Why are people being worse than congress?

Until fans see change in cena's character then fans will always be hostile towards cena, what if they book cena to defeat masked kane and rock, fans will say same old shit.

But many say fans should be happy, there are 4 problems and good reasons why fans are unhappy, first

The title belts/midcard
the IC and tag divisions are fucked basically, there is no build up, no real platform with the IC title which will see these guys go to the main event. The tag division where is the feuds? where is tag divisions making these belts matter? The midcard is in a terrible state, most of RAW's shows are very bland, because when the roster is not there RAW can be hard to watch. The midcard should be the air to becoming the main-event, that is how the torch is passed, like in 2001, stone cold and rock passed the torch towards benoit Y2J and angle.

the lack of edgy gimmicks
There is a real lack of interesting characters in the WWE, look at the AE gimmicks, they were dark unique and entertaining characters that still to this day have a universal cult following like it is with horror fans. The golden generation is missed is well, this is why wrestling has been loved by fans and reason why it destroyed the boxing ratings. Yes stone cold and rock were seen as the faces of the company, but if they do not have the roster to back them up then they are not that effective

the style and booking
the WWE still is not balancing the show out, they have put their eggs in once basket by having this watered down vanilla crap of a show. I have enjoyed the WWE since the summer, but there is still a void that is telling me there is a lack quality in their shows. If they upped the anti and went a bit darker, their shows would be allot better. What is also missing is storylines intertwining, a midcard feud being drawn into the main event, and this gains credibility for the midcard level and makes the show allot more interesting. I have loved the cena kane feud, and the way they crossed that storyline a few weeks ago, and have it effected the lowercard and throughout the show is what is missing

the roster depth
they just do not have the roster, or the personality's which are so boring. Your main event is ziggler punk and johnny trying to screw punk, its not exactly austin HHH rock with vince and shane interfering. If they had a stronger roster it would make up for lack of storylines, but they have neither

Since WWE went public, the wwe have lost so much creativity. if they became a private company they would have more creativity and not a pressure to put on a show that is shackled by the shareholders not wanting a more edgy show that will entertain the fans more, that is why we do not have these classic characters, and that is what wrestling used to be about

 

[DeathClutch]

The product is lacking greatly though Jericho and Kane's recent turns have peaked my interest as a whole the product is lacking and I know what it needs.

CHANGE, and not the CM Punk change but bring back the Cruisers, bring back the Hardcore title bring back gimmick matches on RAW and bring back the tag titles in gimmick matches.

RAW/SD feel the same week in and week out regardless of the gimmick main event because the belts are all the same, there is no change, other than Divas belt.

Using tonight's RAW as an example, imagine Kane as the Hardcore champion in 2012, not his short stint in 2001 but now, he's a monster he'd dominate the division hell Foley/Kane would be fun even if it was designed for Kane to go over, but Kane would look unstoppable and saying a few month down the line you could have someone like Cena cost Kane the bout to someone like Ryder (no shame in a 2 on 1) but leave the 24/7 rule out of the equation, just simply the hardcore title defended in hardcore matches none of the bullshit, it could really enhance Kane at the moment.

But WWE needs to tweak their championships up a little and the matches.

 

[Shotaro]

People are still unhappy because it is easier to discuss something in a negative tone than it is to sing it's praises. Just like it's easier to get a crowd to hate you than love you. We like being negative because it makes us feel better. After all, are you not complaining about the fact that the IWC is still complaining?

Pot, Kettle, black...

 

[Mantis]

People are still unhappy because it is easier to discuss something in a negative tone than it is to sing it's praises. Just like it's easier to get a crowd to hate you than love you. We like being negative because it makes us feel better. After all, are you not complaining about the fact that the IWC is still complaining?

Pot, Kettle, black...

Agreed. People tend to remember the negatives of the program, just like people on these websites tend to remember the complaints more so than the compliments, so it's always going to seem like the majority of people are unhappy with the product even though that may not necessarily be the case.

 

[somehetero]

Alot of the reason why I think the product is lackluster compared to the Attitude Era is the lack of a fanatical crowd. I think the crowds today just aren't nearly as into the product as they were back in the late 90's, and it makes the energy and suspense less likely to move someone. Remember Attitude days when the crowd used to be nothing but signs? EVERYONE brought one.

If the live crowd is always hyped and popping loud for superstars or surprises, it will carry over into the excitement generated as the shows move from week to week. I feel like there are several problems that all lead back to this issue.

1) The announcing is focused too much on story telling and not enough on the excitement of what's actually happening in the ring. This has alot to do with JR being gone. He called the action as it happened rather than trying to portray "heel" or "face" announcer persona. As much as some of you like the Cole "heel" announcer, you have to admit that nothing conveyed the intensity of what was going on in the ring like JR's "BAH GAWD!!!".

2) Lack of longstanding superstars. CM Punk may well be on his way. Orton is close. Other than those two, Cena is really the only full time guy that gets a loud reaction every time he comes out. Jericho is up there close, but he's just now coming back and who knows how long he'll stay. Undertaker is only around for 'mania season. Nothing pops the crowd like a true, longtime superstar. Everytime The Rock, Austin, HBK, and HHH to some extent came out to the ring back in the 90's, the crowd went NUTS. You have to build longstanding superstars who consistently get loud pops in order to build MORE superstars to get the same. It's just like the old saying "it takes money to make money". The WWE has very little "money" right now.

3) Superstar entrances have been watered down. The only one who really has any production value anymore is the Undertaker. The rest are just guys coming out to music. The pyro is almost all gone, usually only used for returns after long absences or Wrestlemania. Entrances that create tension and aid in the construction of a heel character have been cut short. Drew McIntyre is a perfect example of the latter. His entrance used to start at the slow paced beginning of the song (Broken Dreams by Shaman's Harvest - great song) with a drawn out camera effect making him look like a pencil sketch as he slowly walked to the ring, smirking at the crowd. Now his music just starts in the middle of the song and he comes out with no added value.

4) Most of the upcoming content is spoiled on the internet, and everyone has access to it nowadays. There are really very few surprises, and when everyone knows something is going to happen, there is alot less excitement when it happens.

5) Some of the live crowds just suck. I don't know if it's specific to area or age, or anything really. Sometimes when Raw is live on a Monday Night, the crowd is just there - they don't react nearly as well as they should be reacting.

I think there are many ways to get around these issues, but I feel like the only way to quickly reverse the trend of crowds that care less and less about the show is to have RAW stay in one spot for several weeks in a row, where the crowd loves the show and is always hyped for the entire time. When people see on TV how awesome the crowd is, they'll want to be a part of it when it comes to their town. This is part of the reason they pipe sound in on Smackdown. Not only do they want the TV audience to know who the crowd is supposed to love and hate, but they also want the TV audience to think that the crowd is ACTUALLY loving or hating those stars, even when the crowd is just silent.

Chicago is the answer. Chicago has the best live crowd in this era. CM Punk is their guy, and he's the current face of the show. Have Raw in Chicago for 4 straight mondays and let the Chicago crowd show everyone how it's done. Let them boo the hell out of Cena, constantly chant for Punk and other crowd favorites, and pop when top guys come out or hit big spots.

With Punk at the top of the chain and currently in a battle with the GM of Raw, I feel like it'd be VERY easy to work something like that into the storyline. Have Punk challenge Laurainitis to a match where Punk will vacate the title and leave Raw if he loses, but if he wins, he gets to control Raw for a month. As part of his control, he has it in Chicago every week while he's in charge.

The tough part would be booking the arena for four straight Mondays. May be hard, but doable.

TL;DR - WWE is suffering from crowd apathy. A good way to fix this is to hold Raw in a city with a great live crowd for several weeks in a row and portray to the TV audience that it's cool and tons of fun to be loud, scream for your guys, and chant stuff during the show. Other live crowds will catch on.