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Crytera
Guest
It's quite obvious HBK is the better wrestler. Only Cena marks would say he's better, but in reality, no. HBK can put on a great match when he has to.
Who's The Better Wrestler?
- Thread starter breakitdown.
- Start date
Everyone talks about Cena having the belt so long, and 3 titles. Look, I actually like Cena, but to put him in Michael's league is crazy. And, I know there aren't many marks on this site, but titles really mean nothing because Vince decides who gets what title and for how long. The only thing that makes a wrestler a "true" champ, IMHO, is if he has sacrificed for the fans and given to the fans, and entertained the fans. So far, Cena seems to have a great work ethic, and he has improved. I won't bash him, but in 15 years we'll all remember the showstopper. It remains to be seen if anyone will remember Cena.
herooftime
Dark Match Jobber
come on hbk it by far better, sure he got older and thin out alot but he has not lost that much of a step
cena has alot of raw talent but in no way is he at the level osay hbk hhh ston cold the rock or taker
cena has alot of raw talent but in no way is he at the level osay hbk hhh ston cold the rock or taker
austinlee87
New Member
How can you even ask the question? HBK is arguably the greatest in-ring performer ever. He can do it all. Cena's fan base consists of females. He doesn't even have a damn offense. He gets his ass beat for 90 percent of the match, and in the last 2 minutes, he acts like fucking Hulk Hogan and comes out of nowhere and gets a body slam, 5 knuckle shuffle, and then the FU or STFU....WOW what a hell of a "superstar." Fuck Cena...send him back to Ohio Valley Wrestling and have him work on a gimmick.
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njmtitan
Guest
are all u guys fucking dummys comparing shawn michaels and john cena bitches Shawn michaels is one of the greatest wrestlers to ever lace up an wrestling boot. He's done and changed the face of wwe than anybody has ever done Man u guys are stupid comparing cena to Michaels
BRandonkin
Pre-Show Stalwart
have you seen Michaels in recent weeks dominating matches. How about when he was rocker flying off everything. Hardys and Paul and London are modern variation of th Rockers. Look at Michael back in the 90's and watch why ross call michaels the best counter wrestler in the WWE. Watch the iron man match from Wrestlemania XII. Watch the Wrestlmania 23 and how Michaels carried the match just for Cena to forget that his knee is hurt. How many moves could Cena do in an 60 minute match.
I mean, we know that Shawn Michaels is the better wrestler. But when it's all said and done, I think people will respect Cena as an all-time great because of his domiation of the WWE Title over the past few years, like Stone Cold and The Rock's domination of the title from 1998-2002, like Hogan's domination of it for most of the 80s and Ric Flair's domination of the NWA Title for most of the 80s. A while from now when both of their careers are over--which I hope is many years down the road--people will remember Cena's sheer domination over all of his peers moreso than Michaels, in my opinion. Michaels really only had one nice, lengthy title reign, and that was in 1996, and Cena has had multiple long reigns now, and this is truly the "Cena era" of wrestling, regardless of whether people like him or not.
No, no, no, and no. Nobody will respect John Cena for being given the title. Wrestling isn't like baseball or football where the best at the sport wins, in wrestling it's either the most popular or the best choice to further a storyline. The only, and I mean only, fans of John Cena are women and little kids, or teenagers. He hasn't dominated anything, he's just been put over by every major star on the roster in a desperate attempt to make him look good in the ring. Nobody is going to respect this guy when his career is done, and though its mostly McMahon's fault for pushing him, the blame needs to also lie on John Cena for not taking it upon himself to learn enough moves to hold on a ten minute match.
The Cena era of wrestling? If this is the Cena era, somebody shoot me dead now. The way I see it, soon enough every single fan will turn on Cena like they did to Bret Hart in 97, and Vince is going to realize once again that just telling the crowd who to like doesn't make them likable.
You think people are going to see Cena as more dominant than HBK? Please, Cena can't even hold a candle to anything HBK has ever done. All you have to do is just look at the ratings of matches...three of the only four matches that have been given five stars by Dave Meltzer involved HBK. I haven't even seen one three star match from Cena yet. It's not about title runs, it's about talent.
The Cena era of wrestling? If this is the Cena era, somebody shoot me dead now. The way I see it, soon enough every single fan will turn on Cena like they did to Bret Hart in 97, and Vince is going to realize once again that just telling the crowd who to like doesn't make them likable.
You think people are going to see Cena as more dominant than HBK? Please, Cena can't even hold a candle to anything HBK has ever done. All you have to do is just look at the ratings of matches...three of the only four matches that have been given five stars by Dave Meltzer involved HBK. I haven't even seen one three star match from Cena yet. It's not about title runs, it's about talent.
No, no, no, and no to you. If this isn't the Cena era, then who's era is it?
It is about title runs. That's why Ric Flair is the greatest of all time.
You said eventually the fans will turn on Cena? Shit, the fans turned on him soon as he won the title.
This is Cena's world now, just like a few years back it was Triple H's world and before that it was Stone Cold and The Rock's world and before that it was Bret and Shawn's world and before that it was Hogan's world. Don't try to fuckin disrespect my viewpoint because it is true. When people look back on this era ten years from now they will say that Cena was the best. The best wrestler? Of course not. But the most dominant motherfucker in the business right now is Cena, whether you like it or not. So STFU. I'm the expert here.
And for the last time, this is fuckin ENTERTAINMENT. I am so tired of hearing you people talk about who can and cannot wrestle. If you want wrestling, watch the Olympics. Shut the hell up about wrestling moves and what not. If Cena's matches were that bad then they would not keep putting him in a position to be in the main events of all these Pay-Per-Views. So please, stop acting like this is a competitive sport. This is a business. In time, Cena won't be beating everybody. Like his song says "The Time is Now". But it won't last forever, I promise.
It is about title runs. That's why Ric Flair is the greatest of all time.
You said eventually the fans will turn on Cena? Shit, the fans turned on him soon as he won the title.
This is Cena's world now, just like a few years back it was Triple H's world and before that it was Stone Cold and The Rock's world and before that it was Bret and Shawn's world and before that it was Hogan's world. Don't try to fuckin disrespect my viewpoint because it is true. When people look back on this era ten years from now they will say that Cena was the best. The best wrestler? Of course not. But the most dominant motherfucker in the business right now is Cena, whether you like it or not. So STFU. I'm the expert here.
And for the last time, this is fuckin ENTERTAINMENT. I am so tired of hearing you people talk about who can and cannot wrestle. If you want wrestling, watch the Olympics. Shut the hell up about wrestling moves and what not. If Cena's matches were that bad then they would not keep putting him in a position to be in the main events of all these Pay-Per-Views. So please, stop acting like this is a competitive sport. This is a business. In time, Cena won't be beating everybody. Like his song says "The Time is Now". But it won't last forever, I promise.
First of all buddy, theres absolutely no need to get disrespectful and start flaming people for their opinions. What exactly is it that makes you the expert on this hmm?
Wrestling is not about title runs, it's only about that to idiotic wrestling fans who don't appreciate good matches and watch simply for the soap opera element. Look at Davey Boy Smith and the Dynamite Kid, two of the greatest wrestlers of all time who never got a title shot. People still respect them as two of the greatest ever.
Ok maybe you're right about this being Cena's era as he has held the title 20 of the last 24 monthes, but that does NOT mean people will respect him or say to themselves "Wow that guy was a really dominating wrestler". Anyone with half a brain can see that Cena doesn't dominate shit, he gets his ass handed to him in every single match, then he does about three moves, the FU, and it's over. That's dominating?
And yes, you wanna talk about entertainment, you know what's really entertaining? FUCKING WRESTLING. The people who watch the WWE for the soap opera bullshit and to see great stories like Katie Vick and Hawk killing himself are not wrestling fans, they are fans of shitty writing. If I want wrestling watch the Olympics? No, it's my choice what to watch. And amateur wrestling, if you knew anything about wrestling at all guy, is nothing like professional wrestling, so you can't even compare the two. Me and every person on this board watch WWE and TNA for WRESTLING MATCHES.
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard, ever. Why do they keep booking him? Because he's Vince's toy who he sees as the next star of the company and because his merchandise sells like hot cakes. There has never been a single Cena match that was even mildly good. So, by your logic, David Arquette being the main event of WCW PPV's was because his matches were good? Or for that matter, Lashley, Batista, Vince McMahon, Vince Russo, all of whom have been in main event PPV matches means that they put on good matches? No, that by far is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Stop stating your opinion as fact, you're entitled to it but once you start telling people to STFU and that they don't know anything, you're crossing the line. And once again, I'll ask you, what makes you an expert on this, and makes everyone else not one?
Wrestling is not about title runs, it's only about that to idiotic wrestling fans who don't appreciate good matches and watch simply for the soap opera element. Look at Davey Boy Smith and the Dynamite Kid, two of the greatest wrestlers of all time who never got a title shot. People still respect them as two of the greatest ever.
Ok maybe you're right about this being Cena's era as he has held the title 20 of the last 24 monthes, but that does NOT mean people will respect him or say to themselves "Wow that guy was a really dominating wrestler". Anyone with half a brain can see that Cena doesn't dominate shit, he gets his ass handed to him in every single match, then he does about three moves, the FU, and it's over. That's dominating?
And yes, you wanna talk about entertainment, you know what's really entertaining? FUCKING WRESTLING. The people who watch the WWE for the soap opera bullshit and to see great stories like Katie Vick and Hawk killing himself are not wrestling fans, they are fans of shitty writing. If I want wrestling watch the Olympics? No, it's my choice what to watch. And amateur wrestling, if you knew anything about wrestling at all guy, is nothing like professional wrestling, so you can't even compare the two. Me and every person on this board watch WWE and TNA for WRESTLING MATCHES.
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard, ever. Why do they keep booking him? Because he's Vince's toy who he sees as the next star of the company and because his merchandise sells like hot cakes. There has never been a single Cena match that was even mildly good. So, by your logic, David Arquette being the main event of WCW PPV's was because his matches were good? Or for that matter, Lashley, Batista, Vince McMahon, Vince Russo, all of whom have been in main event PPV matches means that they put on good matches? No, that by far is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Stop stating your opinion as fact, you're entitled to it but once you start telling people to STFU and that they don't know anything, you're crossing the line. And once again, I'll ask you, what makes you an expert on this, and makes everyone else not one?
I had a feeling you would say none of Cena's matches are good. So I've compiled a list of his matches that are good.
And I apologize if you feel like I disrespected you, I had no intention to, I just get upset when people bash my boy. So once again, I apologize. Here are Cena's ten best matches:
Backlash 03 for the WWE Title vs. Brock Lesnar-Cena's first title shot where he actually busts Brock's ass and makes him bleed.
Vs. Undertaker-Vengeance 03-another solid match Cena holds his own against the Taker-in American Badass mode
Judgment Day 05 for the WWE Title vs. JBL-exciting I Quit match much better than their match at Mania 21
SummerSlam 05 for the WWE Title vs. Chris Jericho-Jericho took Cena to school and really brought out what I think is Cena's best match
Taboo Tuesday Triple Threat vs. Kurt Angle and Shawn Michaels- great triple threat match that people really don't talk about that much
WrestleMania 22 for the WWE Title vs. Triple H-Triple H really made Cena look good, tapping out to the STFU. Reminds me of the Mania 14 match when HBK put Stone Cold over.
Royal Rumble 06 for the WWE Title vs. Edge-another great match seeing lots of back-and-forth. Cena takes the belt from Edge.
Unforgiven 06 vs. Edge-TLC--Cena beats Edge in his own game for the title in his hometown, nice violent match.
Royal Rumble 06 vs. Umaga--this is actually a solid match with Cena punishing the Samoan bulldozer.
WrestleMania 23 vs. Shawn Michaels--good main event was a let-down compared to the Undertaker-Batista match, but still a solid match with HBK bringing out a solid performance in Cena.
Sure, if you compare these matches with HBK's top 10, it's a no-brainer, I know that. But a lot of people say 'none of Cena's matches are good' but in sincerity, some of them are.
Hogan dominated all of his matches but every single one of them he got his ass kicked, then came back, hulk up, leg drop, brother, 123. So, that is not a valid point to say that Cena hasn't dominated. Cena has defeated everybody they have put in front of him. Right now, he is the man. When the kids who love him now get older and they are the ones doing all the posting on WrestleZone forums, they will say that Cena was the man, just like the kids from back in the day say Hogan was the man even though we all know Flair was the better wrestler.
So yes, Shawn is the better wrestler per say, but Cena has dominated the last three years and Shawn really only dominated in one. The bottom line is who puts the asses in the seats, and Cena of today puts more asses in the seats that HBK did in 96. Just like Hogan put more in the seats than Flair in the 80s and Stone Cold and The Rock did than Bret and Shawn did when you compare their respective eras. Yes, Shawn is the better in-ring perfmer, but to say that Cena's matches are that bad is truly an insult because he has come leaps and bounds from where he once was. If Vince McMahon told you he wanted you to be the man and dominate the WWE, you would do it in a heartbeat and not worry about what the Internet world has to say about your wrestling skills.
And I feel like I am an expert in this because I'm one of the people who actually understands that this is a business and that just because you are not god's gift to the squared circle (Cena, Stone Cold, The Rock, Hulk Hogan, Undertaker), that that does not mean that you cannot be a star and a good WWE entertainer. That's the bottom line. Too many people do not realize that pro wrestling is all about money and think that if you are not a technical wizard like Ric Flair or a Shawn Michaels or a Kurt Angle that you suck. Triple H isn't a great technical wrestler but he's one of the best of all time, as is the other guys that I mentioned before. And what is so bad about having a champion that kids and women can love and cheer for ? Why is that so bad. I'm sure people were chuckling when WWE first put the belt on Bret Hart in 1992, a sharp distinction from the die-hard Hulkamaniacs of the 80s. Just my opinion. If those qualities really mattered then guys like Cena Hogan and others would not get a chance to be champions. How stupid would Vince McMahon be if he said "Well, he moves merchandise and equals ratings but he's not a great wrestler so we're not going to make him our champion." Come on, dude let's be serious here.
And I apologize if you feel like I disrespected you, I had no intention to, I just get upset when people bash my boy. So once again, I apologize. Here are Cena's ten best matches:
Backlash 03 for the WWE Title vs. Brock Lesnar-Cena's first title shot where he actually busts Brock's ass and makes him bleed.
Vs. Undertaker-Vengeance 03-another solid match Cena holds his own against the Taker-in American Badass mode
Judgment Day 05 for the WWE Title vs. JBL-exciting I Quit match much better than their match at Mania 21
SummerSlam 05 for the WWE Title vs. Chris Jericho-Jericho took Cena to school and really brought out what I think is Cena's best match
Taboo Tuesday Triple Threat vs. Kurt Angle and Shawn Michaels- great triple threat match that people really don't talk about that much
WrestleMania 22 for the WWE Title vs. Triple H-Triple H really made Cena look good, tapping out to the STFU. Reminds me of the Mania 14 match when HBK put Stone Cold over.
Royal Rumble 06 for the WWE Title vs. Edge-another great match seeing lots of back-and-forth. Cena takes the belt from Edge.
Unforgiven 06 vs. Edge-TLC--Cena beats Edge in his own game for the title in his hometown, nice violent match.
Royal Rumble 06 vs. Umaga--this is actually a solid match with Cena punishing the Samoan bulldozer.
WrestleMania 23 vs. Shawn Michaels--good main event was a let-down compared to the Undertaker-Batista match, but still a solid match with HBK bringing out a solid performance in Cena.
Sure, if you compare these matches with HBK's top 10, it's a no-brainer, I know that. But a lot of people say 'none of Cena's matches are good' but in sincerity, some of them are.
Hogan dominated all of his matches but every single one of them he got his ass kicked, then came back, hulk up, leg drop, brother, 123. So, that is not a valid point to say that Cena hasn't dominated. Cena has defeated everybody they have put in front of him. Right now, he is the man. When the kids who love him now get older and they are the ones doing all the posting on WrestleZone forums, they will say that Cena was the man, just like the kids from back in the day say Hogan was the man even though we all know Flair was the better wrestler.
So yes, Shawn is the better wrestler per say, but Cena has dominated the last three years and Shawn really only dominated in one. The bottom line is who puts the asses in the seats, and Cena of today puts more asses in the seats that HBK did in 96. Just like Hogan put more in the seats than Flair in the 80s and Stone Cold and The Rock did than Bret and Shawn did when you compare their respective eras. Yes, Shawn is the better in-ring perfmer, but to say that Cena's matches are that bad is truly an insult because he has come leaps and bounds from where he once was. If Vince McMahon told you he wanted you to be the man and dominate the WWE, you would do it in a heartbeat and not worry about what the Internet world has to say about your wrestling skills.
And I feel like I am an expert in this because I'm one of the people who actually understands that this is a business and that just because you are not god's gift to the squared circle (Cena, Stone Cold, The Rock, Hulk Hogan, Undertaker), that that does not mean that you cannot be a star and a good WWE entertainer. That's the bottom line. Too many people do not realize that pro wrestling is all about money and think that if you are not a technical wizard like Ric Flair or a Shawn Michaels or a Kurt Angle that you suck. Triple H isn't a great technical wrestler but he's one of the best of all time, as is the other guys that I mentioned before. And what is so bad about having a champion that kids and women can love and cheer for ? Why is that so bad. I'm sure people were chuckling when WWE first put the belt on Bret Hart in 1992, a sharp distinction from the die-hard Hulkamaniacs of the 80s. Just my opinion. If those qualities really mattered then guys like Cena Hogan and others would not get a chance to be champions. How stupid would Vince McMahon be if he said "Well, he moves merchandise and equals ratings but he's not a great wrestler so we're not going to make him our champion." Come on, dude let's be serious here.
Figure 4, I think a lot of people get the reasoning behind Cena being the champion, it doesn't mean that the people that have watched the program for 20 years has to put up with it. People feel legitimatly pissed off that Vince doesn't care about the fans input anymore, and that he is catering to 5 year old kids and 14 year old girls. The loyal fanbase is pissed and letting their voices be heard. The boos of 10,000 pissed off 20something males will always drown out the 500 kids cheering Cena because he's a "Hawty"
The problem with a lot of the matches you've described is, they aren't that good. The match with Lesnar was awesome, I'll give him that, but it's been all down hill since then. The rest of th ematches Cena is carried threw. Look at the list of guys taht Cena is against. They are all well respected in ring veterans that can make anyone look good. Cena has nearly nothing to do with these matches, except, 1. not sell moves, 2. "You can't See Me", 3. Pump his Shoes up, 4. FU or STFU. That's it.
I can't agree with his match quality going up the last few years. I think they have gotten progressivly worse. The young Cena was at least entertaining. Now the most entertaining parts of the match is the "Boo/Ya" punch segments.
The problem with a lot of the matches you've described is, they aren't that good. The match with Lesnar was awesome, I'll give him that, but it's been all down hill since then. The rest of th ematches Cena is carried threw. Look at the list of guys taht Cena is against. They are all well respected in ring veterans that can make anyone look good. Cena has nearly nothing to do with these matches, except, 1. not sell moves, 2. "You can't See Me", 3. Pump his Shoes up, 4. FU or STFU. That's it.
I can't agree with his match quality going up the last few years. I think they have gotten progressivly worse. The young Cena was at least entertaining. Now the most entertaining parts of the match is the "Boo/Ya" punch segments.
Shocky said it best, but I'll reiterate.
First off, every match you mentioned, and this is just my opinion, sucked horribly. I hated every single one of those matches and the only one I even thought was decently entertaining was the TLC match with Edge at Unforgiven 06, and that was only because of the FU off the ladder through two tables, which I'll admit was sick. I honestly have not seen one match by Cena where I stopped and said "Damn, that guy's good" or even nodded my head in approval, and thats from his debut against Angle to his last match on Raw. And he is just getting worse and worse as it is, whats the problem with catering to children and women? Because they don't make up the majority of WWE or wrestling fans. Most of the people out there are men from the ages of 16-30 who want to see real wrestling and good wrestling. They don't want to see Cena do his lame ass routine every week. You bring up the fact that Hogan did the same, and guess what, nobody respects Hogan either. They respect Hogan for what he did for the business, but theres no self-respecting wrestling fan who could ever say Hogan was a good wrestler. And the thing is mate, that was TWENTY years ago. That was fine back then in those days to have a limited move set and to cater to the kids and women, because WWE was almost entirely watched by little kids. WWE used to be very kids-oriented in those days, but when we got into the late 90s the kids had either grown up or moved on and it was time for a change, and that's when we saw the Attitude era and all of the adult themes it brought with it. And if you notice, that was the best era in WWE history for that reason. Now it's like the WWE is trying to digress back to the Hogan days with their kid-friendly champ who spouts out garbage about how he's a marine and whatnot. The guy is as clean as could be, theres not even a hint of danger or rebelliousness to him. And that's the problem. The WWE seems to think it should be going backwards in time with its product to relive the 90,000 at Wrestlemania 3 and those golden days, instead of improving their product to move forward.
First off, every match you mentioned, and this is just my opinion, sucked horribly. I hated every single one of those matches and the only one I even thought was decently entertaining was the TLC match with Edge at Unforgiven 06, and that was only because of the FU off the ladder through two tables, which I'll admit was sick. I honestly have not seen one match by Cena where I stopped and said "Damn, that guy's good" or even nodded my head in approval, and thats from his debut against Angle to his last match on Raw. And he is just getting worse and worse as it is, whats the problem with catering to children and women? Because they don't make up the majority of WWE or wrestling fans. Most of the people out there are men from the ages of 16-30 who want to see real wrestling and good wrestling. They don't want to see Cena do his lame ass routine every week. You bring up the fact that Hogan did the same, and guess what, nobody respects Hogan either. They respect Hogan for what he did for the business, but theres no self-respecting wrestling fan who could ever say Hogan was a good wrestler. And the thing is mate, that was TWENTY years ago. That was fine back then in those days to have a limited move set and to cater to the kids and women, because WWE was almost entirely watched by little kids. WWE used to be very kids-oriented in those days, but when we got into the late 90s the kids had either grown up or moved on and it was time for a change, and that's when we saw the Attitude era and all of the adult themes it brought with it. And if you notice, that was the best era in WWE history for that reason. Now it's like the WWE is trying to digress back to the Hogan days with their kid-friendly champ who spouts out garbage about how he's a marine and whatnot. The guy is as clean as could be, theres not even a hint of danger or rebelliousness to him. And that's the problem. The WWE seems to think it should be going backwards in time with its product to relive the 90,000 at Wrestlemania 3 and those golden days, instead of improving their product to move forward.
Very good points, I agree. But I've said this before, the most constant theme in WWE is change. Cena has been on top the last three years, and I promise that it will not last forever. Now with the emergence of guys like Mr. Kennedy, MVP, and C.M. Punk, times are slowly beginning to change again, and thus a new era of WWE will begin.
The name of the thread is who is the better wrestler: HBK or Cena. And my answer was HBK, of course. What I said was that Cena's time at the top will be remembered more twenty years from now, despite the fact that HBK has put on much better matches and is a better in-ring performer. It is sort of like comparing the Attitude era to WCW in those days--sure WCW may have had better wrestlers and bigger stars overall, but WWE was producing the better product. In the Hogan days, NWA had better wrestlers and those guys worked their ass off, but WWE produced the better product and raked in more cash. That is what matters most, folks. That is all I'm saying. I know that Cena is not an all-time great, and I know that HBK is better. All I'm saying, is that if you really evaluate their careers and down the line when you say "Who was THE MAN for a longer period of time", then you have to say Cena. Sure, match-wise, HBK is top five, easily. But Cena is THE MAN. This is HIS show now. For the last three years it has been his. That is just the truth.
WWE tried to put the title on somebody else last year, but RVD fucked up and Edge evidently was not good enough to carry the ball long-term. But time will tell, like I said, and soon Cena will start losing just as many matches as he wins. Kennedy, MVP and C.M. Punk will be THE guys in the coming years.
And the matches that I listed really aren't that bad, maybe you should watch them on youtube or something. I know they're not any match of the year candidates, but they are okay. I'm just trying to make the point that it's not like Cena is the Ultimate Warrior or Goldberg. Do you guys think he's that bad?
Yea, so Hogan doesn't have much respect within the whos who of the biz, but if it were not for Hogan, there would be no biz, honestly. I know Vince created him, but Hogan was the one who made people believe that this shit was real and made people fans of this great 'sport'. Not Flair, not HBK. Hogan. And yea, he's a politician and a son of a bitch, but I love him, and because of his contributions I will love him regardless of his humungous ego. If I made wrestling, my ego would be that big too.
I'm sorry that I've offended so many people by telling the truth. This is a money-making machine, and Cena makes McMahon money. That's what matters. I love Cena, but I would love to see a great technical wrestler as the champion just as much as the rest of you. But, we just have to deal with what we get for now.
And that's not fair that I'm taking on two members of WrestleZone's Evolution in a handicap match, by the way.
The name of the thread is who is the better wrestler: HBK or Cena. And my answer was HBK, of course. What I said was that Cena's time at the top will be remembered more twenty years from now, despite the fact that HBK has put on much better matches and is a better in-ring performer. It is sort of like comparing the Attitude era to WCW in those days--sure WCW may have had better wrestlers and bigger stars overall, but WWE was producing the better product. In the Hogan days, NWA had better wrestlers and those guys worked their ass off, but WWE produced the better product and raked in more cash. That is what matters most, folks. That is all I'm saying. I know that Cena is not an all-time great, and I know that HBK is better. All I'm saying, is that if you really evaluate their careers and down the line when you say "Who was THE MAN for a longer period of time", then you have to say Cena. Sure, match-wise, HBK is top five, easily. But Cena is THE MAN. This is HIS show now. For the last three years it has been his. That is just the truth.
WWE tried to put the title on somebody else last year, but RVD fucked up and Edge evidently was not good enough to carry the ball long-term. But time will tell, like I said, and soon Cena will start losing just as many matches as he wins. Kennedy, MVP and C.M. Punk will be THE guys in the coming years.
And the matches that I listed really aren't that bad, maybe you should watch them on youtube or something. I know they're not any match of the year candidates, but they are okay. I'm just trying to make the point that it's not like Cena is the Ultimate Warrior or Goldberg. Do you guys think he's that bad?
Yea, so Hogan doesn't have much respect within the whos who of the biz, but if it were not for Hogan, there would be no biz, honestly. I know Vince created him, but Hogan was the one who made people believe that this shit was real and made people fans of this great 'sport'. Not Flair, not HBK. Hogan. And yea, he's a politician and a son of a bitch, but I love him, and because of his contributions I will love him regardless of his humungous ego. If I made wrestling, my ego would be that big too.
I'm sorry that I've offended so many people by telling the truth. This is a money-making machine, and Cena makes McMahon money. That's what matters. I love Cena, but I would love to see a great technical wrestler as the champion just as much as the rest of you. But, we just have to deal with what we get for now.
And that's not fair that I'm taking on two members of WrestleZone's Evolution in a handicap match, by the way.
Nah, you didn't offend anyone Figure 4, just the opposite side of the coin that everyone needs to have. Most people realize your points are damn good, we just don't agree with the direction the company is going. Its been a point now for several years that often the best wrestlers in the company aren't the champion. This is the case with guys like HBK or Undertaker only having 4 and 5 title reigns, when if this was a just world, these guys would be closer to ten time champions.
We are getting to the point now were title reigns really don't mean anything anymore. Remember, JBL and Nash held the title for nearly a year, and you don't hear there names come up in the top 25 champions of all time.
I know this is the Cena Era, but in my world, we're still in the Lesnar Era. Remember, with Backlash 03, Cena was going to be the anti-Brock Lesnar. His FU was a rip off of the F5. He was the brawler where Lesnar was the wrestler. It would have been perfect if Brock stayed, but he didn't. Cena is definetly missing out on his foible character. Cena is in that tough position, because his Rock is already gone.
HBK and the Undertaker may go down as the two greatest performers in the history of the company. They have transcended the WWE championship, which is something Cena hasn't accomplished, and probably won't. So this is why I pick HBK.
We are getting to the point now were title reigns really don't mean anything anymore. Remember, JBL and Nash held the title for nearly a year, and you don't hear there names come up in the top 25 champions of all time.
I know this is the Cena Era, but in my world, we're still in the Lesnar Era. Remember, with Backlash 03, Cena was going to be the anti-Brock Lesnar. His FU was a rip off of the F5. He was the brawler where Lesnar was the wrestler. It would have been perfect if Brock stayed, but he didn't. Cena is definetly missing out on his foible character. Cena is in that tough position, because his Rock is already gone.
HBK and the Undertaker may go down as the two greatest performers in the history of the company. They have transcended the WWE championship, which is something Cena hasn't accomplished, and probably won't. So this is why I pick HBK.
Many good points, but I'd have to disagree that people will look back and say to themselves that Cena had a longer reign at top. Being on top isn't always about titles. HBK was on top of the WWF from 1994-1998 pretty much, from his ladder match and feud with Razor Ramon in 94-95 to his rise to the champion and biggest entertainer in the business in 96-98. Sure, other people held the title in those periods, but nobody looks back at that period as the "Yokozuna" era, the "Diesel" era or the "Sid Vicious" era. They don't even think of it as the Undertaker era, the only guy that could even compete with HBK in terms of ruling the WWF at that time was Bret Hart, and the fans seriously turned on him in 97. I'm just saying that in the future I think people will look at HBK's peak of 94-98 as being much more impressive then Cena's peak of the last few years.
Good thing for you I've decided to stay out of this.
We all know how I feel about Cena. I don't think he's a very good wrestler but I think he's underrated by a lot of the die-hard fans, and he's not as bad as people make him out to be. He can do more in the ring than he lets on... he just doesn't because he wrestles a brawler-type gimmick similar to what Hogan used to do in the 80s... we've all heard the stories of him pullinh hurricanranas in Japan.
Again, I'm by no means trying to praise Cena's ring skills, and I think 90% of the wrestlers in WWE are better than him, but he has a gimmick and I think it works. He's built himself up to superstar status, and I think he deserves to be where he is.
Are there people who might deserve the belt more than he does? Maybe... but that doesn't mean I'm P.O.'d about his success.
There, see? we're not all that bad... or are we?
*thumbs down, batista bomb*
We all know how I feel about Cena. I don't think he's a very good wrestler but I think he's underrated by a lot of the die-hard fans, and he's not as bad as people make him out to be. He can do more in the ring than he lets on... he just doesn't because he wrestles a brawler-type gimmick similar to what Hogan used to do in the 80s... we've all heard the stories of him pullinh hurricanranas in Japan.
Again, I'm by no means trying to praise Cena's ring skills, and I think 90% of the wrestlers in WWE are better than him, but he has a gimmick and I think it works. He's built himself up to superstar status, and I think he deserves to be where he is.
Are there people who might deserve the belt more than he does? Maybe... but that doesn't mean I'm P.O.'d about his success.
There, see? we're not all that bad... or are we?
*thumbs down, batista bomb*
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