Who's passing the torch to whom in the WWE?

[CM Steel]

For years now in the WWE there has always been a saying about veteran wrestler's who often pass the torch to the up and coming guy in wrestling. It has been said many years.

-Hulk Hogan passing the torch to the Ultimate Warrior (R.I.P.)
-Ric Flair passing the torch to Bret Hart
-Bret Hart passing the torch to Shawn Michaels
-Shawn Michaels passing the torch to Stone Cold Steve Austin

And so on...

But who makes those decisions on who's passing the torch whom in all wrestling? The wrestler's? The fans? The bosses? Let's use the comparison between Hulk Hogan and John Cena for example. These two men have never been in the ring against each other but yet wrestling fans and the IWC wants to compare these two but for a decent reason. Same thing for people comparing Stone Cold and CM Punk. Why?

So in your own honest opinion. Who's passing the torch to whom in the WWE?

 

[S'All Goodman]

When i read through these posts and comments i always see people wanting the veterans to pass the torch in every match they are in. IMO, passing the torch is a very rare occassion and shouldn't happen too often as it wouldnt mean as much when it does happen. for example, Jericho coming back the past couple of years to put young guys over and give them a bit of a rub. I don't think it will make as big of an impact when he finally loses to Wyatt because he hasn't won too many high profile matches since Wrestlemania 26 and he will be remembered for losing to Fandango at Wrestlemania 29. So i think the only guys who can pass the torch are Cena, HHH and Lesnar. Anybody else, IMO, it wouldn't count and wouldn't be as effective.

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

When I think "passing the torch", I'm thinking its the guy at the very top of the card "giving" that spot to someone else for an extended period of time. while the torch passer steps away for a while.

I don't consider Jericho putting guys over now as passing any torch.

And I don't consider the Rock losing to Cena as a passing of the torch either, which I have heard before. That makes no sense. Cena has been on top of the company longer than the Rock was. He basically IS the torch.

As for who makes the decision? That would be Vince McMahon obviously and the fans have a lot to do with it. If the fans aren't on board w/ the guy, Vince isn't going to give him the ball.

S'all Goodman is right, it's rare occassion and there are a lot of variables involved w/ the timing and where each guy is in their career.

 

[King Patrick Star]

The important thing to remember about this whole “Passing Of The Torch” sentiment is one must hold the torch in order to pass the torch. In my opinion the only torch being passed on here is the eternal flame that Vince McMahon is holding and subsequently passing to Triple H. Long live the Boss!! Long live the King Of Kings!!

 

[Redemption-2012]

Passing the torch would be John Cena putting over a Roman Reigns or a Cesaro or Dean Ambrose at WrestleMania for the WWE World Title in a one time deal type of matchup. Passing the torch is a HUGE deal considering the circumstances surrounding the meaning and the amount of pressure to the receiver of said "torch".

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

Ever since I have been watching WWE (roughly 25 years now) here are the best examples of passing the torch.

Hogan to Warrior:
Hogan was the top guy for going onto 7 years by the time he dropped the title to Warrior. While this was a legit passing, the torch came back to Hogan pretty quick as by the beginning of 91 it was clear that Hogan was the top guy again.

Bret to Shawn:
While it was never passed onto Bret as he became the guy during a transitional period for the WWF, without question Bret became the man in the WWF at some point during 93. So now fast forward 3 years and you have Bret putting over Shawn at Mania 12. Bret would drop back for 6 months and in that time Shawn had a top run in the company (while brief) that really wasn't seen since Hogan's heyday. Now by the time 97 rolls around and Bret is back you have a multitude of guys on top with one being Shawn because of the events of Mania 12.

Shawn to Austin:
As 97 turns into 98 we have the explosion of Austin who spent 97 getting more and more popular by the day. While he was firmly established by this point, Shawn dropping the title to Austin at Mania 14 is cited by most as the beginning of the Attitude Era simply because it was the night Austin became the unquestioned top guy.

The Rock to Brock:
While Rock was never really passed the torch and got over on his own (which I will cover later) Brock was in a perfect position to have it handed to him. Rock was on his way out, Brock having debuted just months earlier was on the fast track and they meet at SummerSlam 02 with Brock getting a clean win and becoming the man. This would be cemented by his dominance over Taker in the following months.

Triple H to Batista:
While Trips wasn't handed anything either (Will get into it later) there is no doubt that with Austin, Rock and Brock gone he was the man. Heading into Mania 21 Evolution is dissolved and Batista is on the verge of stardom with Triple H passing him the torch and making him look as good as anyone has ever made anyone else look with their match at Mania 21 and the following PPVs.

Now what I also find interesting are the examples of guys who should have had this type of moment but never did and still managed to get over on their own.

Bret Hart
92 was a major transitional year for the WWF and no one benifited more than Bret. While no one really never put him over during this time his exposure into the main event coupled with the lack of top talent now that guys like Warrior, Flair, Macho and Hogan were gone made Bret the top guy. The opportunity was there for guys like Macho and Hogan to put him over but for one reason or another Bret never got those matches.

Triple H:
99 Was a breakout year for Hunter and his moment should have been winning the title over Austin at SummerSlam. However this didn't happen and he had to settle for beating Mankind the following week for his first title reign which ended a week later against Vince. While this seems like the kind of stuff that would kill a main event push, Hunter was able to stay the course while on the same roster with guys like Austin, Rock, Taker and Angle and wind up being the man a few years later.

The Rock:
This one is interesting as Rock really got over before there was a chance for him to be passed the torch. No way was he winning at Mania 15 and shortly after that was his face turn and there was no turning back from there. However, there was opportunity at the following 2 Mania's for his moment which never were. At Mania 16 he could have gone over Austin had Austin not had to take time off, of he could have gone over a Tripe H who 8 months earlier should have been passed the torch with Austin. Than at Mania 17 Rock could have had his moment against Austin but I'm sure his leaving the company for a few months to film either Mummy Returns or Scorpion King had something to do with his loss.

Randy Orton:
He was the first to leave Evolution and the first to get a title. As soon as he became champ he lost it to Hunter and while Batista got his spot at Mania 21, it could have easily been Orton who had that moment.

John Cena:
This one is tough because back in 04-05 Cena was behind Orton and Batista in terms of guys the company was going to get behind. He had his moment at Mania but it was against Bradshaw and was the lesser of the two title changes. Now credit to Cena because he got over on his own and established himself as the top guy when Batista started going down to injury first at the end of 2005 which lead to him missing Mania 22 and than again a few years later as he either missed Mania 24 or 25.

 

[FlairFan2003]

There are so few examples of this its unreal why fans get so worked up. Nobody passed the Torch to Hogan. Backlund was leaving wrestling so they went with a heel (Iron Sheik) for shock value with a surprise win ending his 5yr title reign. Once Hogan (who was on the verge of having long time main event star and multi time World Champ Nick Bockwinkle 'pass the torch' to him in the AWA) was signed they hot shotted his title win but Sheik wasnt champ long enough for it to matter as a special consequence. It would have meant a lot more taking the top spot from Bockwinkle. Didnt stop Hogan from being huge.

Harley Race did pass the torch to Flair but that was after Flair already had a 2 plus year run as champ. Having Race, a fixture at the top of the card for a decade, the 7 time champ, put Flair over clean to regain the title was a major show that the power had shifted. Before that while Flair had a nice run as champ he really wasnt the clear #1 until his definative win.

No one passed the torch to Brett. He was initially chosen by default after Warrior injured Flair, sending him off TV and to the Mayo Clinic, killing their feud and any plans to crown Warrior champ. He was fired soon after. With Savgage already asking off the road Brett got the belt by default. He did well during a down time in the company but never got a definative win to prove he was #1. Didnt hurt his career though.

Hogan never really passed the torch to Warrior. Unlike Race who largely left the scene and had only a few short runs after, there was never any doubt that when Hogan came back he was #1 and sure enough a year later he was not only back but was champ.

Austin & Rock rose slowly but never got a win over a long time #1 guy to elevate their status. HBK was not the face of WWE or an iconic legend, he was just the top bad guy on the show when Austin topped him. Fact is Austin with or without the belt by then was the #1 guy.
Your over all presentation and career advancement marks how you do, not a 'pass the torch' moment. Fans way over rate this.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Ultimately it's a combination of the fans and the boss who ultimately pass the torch. The fans make let the boss know who they want the torch to go to but at the end of the day its the boss deciding who is getting the torch and who the torch is taken away from.

In reality, its the person who rakes in the most cash for the company is who gets the torch, that's why Cena still has had it for damn near 10 years. Much like in 1990, Hogan may have lost the title to Warrior but Hogan was still the top dog and the top draw so in essence he didn't actually pass the torch, at most he lent it to Warrior while he took a break. Better yet lets go back to the first Starrcade. Going into Starrcade Flair had the torch even though at the beginning of the night Race was still champ, their awesome cage match was symbolically letting the fans know who the torch now belonged to and ideally the former torch bearer leaves the main event scene to let the new torch bearer get established.

Anyways that's how I see it, the fans get behind the most popular guy, that guy makes the company the most money, the boss puts that guy at the top and finally the torch passing match takes place so the fans know there is a new top dog.

 

[Brandonk]

I always looked at it as this:
Andre the Giant passing the torch to Hogan at WM3
Hogan passing the torch to the Rock at WM 18
The Rock passing it tonJohn Cena at WM 29

 

[Creepy Old Man]

Hogan, Bret, Austin and Cena are the only torch-bearers in history. Sammartino was never proven as an international star and pre-dated the WrestleMania era, Warrior and Savage were parts of Hogan's era, Michaels was a part of Bret's era, and Rock was a part of Austin's. Undertaker was the cornerstone, but never the public face. Between Austin's departure in 2003 and Cena's ascension to the throne in 2005, names like Lesnar, Triple H, Angle and Benoit jostled for the position of "the man", but none ever truly attained it. That period was more of an ensemble effort.

That said, I can sense Cena's time on top winding down. He put over Bryan clean last year, and is only champion right now because Bryan got injured. He's starring as the villain of a movie, which I can't imagine happening a few years ago. He's tweeting about how life would be better as a heel. He's in his late 30s and has burned the candle at both ends for over a decade. In my opinion he's entertaining the idea of becoming a supporting player to a new company face, and possibly even considering that long-awaited heel turn.

 

[Mudlup50]

I always looked at it as this:
Andre the Giant passing the torch to Hogan at WM3
Hogan passing the torch to the Rock at WM 18
The Rock passing it tonJohn Cena at WM 29

For starters major congrats on joining WrestleZone

Second, shouldn't the torch be passed before someone becomes the face? I mean Cena had been on top for a good 7-8 years before the Rock "passed it" to him >< Even with The Rock getting the figurative torch, by that point Rock had been doing his thing for years, I never considered that a torch passing moment, it was Legend v Icon in my book.

But I think the problem with this question is the fact the torch doesn't exist...at all. It's a figurative thing that never actually matters. So what Cena has the torch right now? So the only way Reigns can be the next top guy is if he beats Cena? Well let's have them fight on Raw and Cena can lose and suddenly Reigns has the "torch". I know that it seems to be a thing but it's not really, if so we should be able to pinpoint every holder of the "torch" and trace a match where they handed it off and you can't. You can try to make a timeline but it can't be proven. Face it, the person who is the face...is the face regardless. Using at least your list, Hogan held the torch for 15 years, Rock for 11 years...so we have 10 more years of Cena being the torch bearer?

All I'm saying is that there is no torch, we can debate this all we want but they just say it to hype up matches and build up guys who are already on top

 

[whoopin' ass]

Currently it isn't being done because wwe still hasn't clued in that they need to make new stars. Jericho was mention and he is putting over new stars but the problem is they are not going to be the big stars down the road. He lost to Fandango at Mania - does anyone see Fandango headlining Mania in 5 years?

Remember, losing isn't the same as passing the torch. Punk and Bryan beat big names to win the title but they were not the focus of the show as champ, usually Cena was. To pass the torch, the new star needs the push and that isn't happening today. Would Austin have been as big if HBK had stayed and they kept focusing the show on DX? Austin/Vince worked because wwe focused on it since HBK was gone - they would have focused on him if he stayed. For Cena(or anyone) to pass the torch, they need to lose clean, lose the rematch clean and then disappear for 6 months so wwe can't run back to them.

Ziggler is the guy who they should be focusing on. Good in the ring, fans like the character and can play that HBK style cocky bad guy that people like.