Who's Being More Stubborn?

[Con T.]

There's two things that people want to see next year for Wrestlemania: Sting-Undertaker, and Bruno Sammartino going into the Hall of Fame. Both of these events aren't happening, pretty much because both guys are being stubborn, to the point of obnoxiousness. The question is, who's being more of a stubborn prick; Sting, or Bruno?


First, here's Sting's side:

[YOUTUBE]0g1m2cXOQGM[/YOUTUBE]

I don't think Sting seems to get that there is a wide discrepancy between the way Vince treats Sting, and how Vince treats Booker T. If Sting paid any attention at all, he'd see the whenever WWE mentions him, it's with a certain reverence. Sting can do no more for TNA; he can do something for the fans, which at the end of the day, is more noble than helping TNA


Bruno's side:


[YOUTUBE]_qETyx2uUdo[/YOUTUBE]

So what if the Hall of Fame is a marketing ploy? You know who the Hall of Fame is meant for? The fans, jackass, the fans. The only person that gets hurt from your stubbornness are the fans.


So who's more stubborn?
Both are being assholes, yes
But who's more of one?

 

[hatehabsforever]

I'd accuse Sting of being the more stubborn of the two.

 

[Con T.]

I'd accuse Sting of being the more stubborn of the two.

I should also ask
Does Bruno in the Hall of Fame
Mean something to you?

(I'm not trying to accuse, just legitimately curious)

 

[hatehabsforever]

I should also ask
Does Bruno in the Hall of Fame
Mean something to you?

(I'm not trying to accuse, just legitimately curious)

Bruno should be there
Not a snowball's chance in hell
He will tell Vince yes.

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

I'd love to see Bruno get acknowledged in the Hall of Fame and I'd also like to see Sting and Taker. I think the time for a Sting and Taker match has passed us by because Taker isn't in good shape. I wish we could have seen this like 5 years ago but oh well. I'd say Bruno's the bigger asshole because the man with the longest title reign in history SHOULD get in the Hall of Fame but because he's being stubborn about it, I may never get to see it.

 

[Con T.]

I'd love to see Bruno get acknowledged in the Hall of Fame and I'd also like to see Sting and Taker. I think the time for a Sting and Taker match has passed us by because Taker isn't in good shape. I wish we could have seen this like 5 years ago but oh well. I'd say Bruno's the bigger asshole because the man with the longest title reign in history SHOULD get in the Hall of Fame but because he's being stubborn about it, I may never get to see it.

I'm not so sure the window has passed. Taker is brittle, but this could be his farewell match, and would likely be in shape. Sting is in remarkable shape for his age. Could use quite a bit of rogaine though.

The match would never be all that great; it's the environment that matters. Hogan-Andre was a bad match, but is one of the greatest of all time due to environment.

Environment, Jack
It can make any match great
It's happened before

 

[shattered dreams]

Vince.

 

[Con T.]

Vince.

Would be fair, except Vince wasn't even involved in the last Bruno negotiations; that was Hunter, who Bruno had nothing but good things to say about. Sting even admits Vince always treats him great in negotiations, and is accomodating.

Vince is an asshole
But I'm not blaming him here
This is on these two

 

[Wolf Pac]

Sting. He's a way bigger name than Booker T, I doubt Vince would ever treat him like a joke. They speak very highly of Sting even though he's never been with the company, and I believe they have or are gonna release a DVD on Sting, they wouldn't do that if they were ever gonna treat him the same way as they did Booker back then. Plus it's a different age now, guys like Cena, Orton, Punk, Sheamus are nowhere near Sting's level like how Austin, Rock, HHH and all those guys were, so Sting would be treated like a god over today's crop of main eventers.

As for Bruno, I honestly don't care, I've never seen him in action.

 

[shattered dreams]

Because it worked out so well for Goldberg ...


I don't see how Sting is being stubborn now. Maybe back then but right now he has a job. Why isn't the Undertaker stubborn for not going to TNA to wrestle Sting there? There is some amusing irony that Booker T ended up being practically the only WCW guy to actually get further built up.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Because it worked out so well for Goldberg ...

Serious question, would you put the blame for that on Vince, on Goldberg, or on both? Because I know my answer to this question.

Why isn't the Undertaker stubborn for not going to TNA to wrestle Sting there?

Hardly the same thing, now, is it?

 

[shattered dreams]

Serious question, would you put the blame for that on Vince, on Goldberg, or on both? Because I know my answer to this question.

Depends on how you look at it. If Vince had done a better job integrating WCW, don't you think Goldberg might have felt differently working there?

Hardly the same thing, now, is it?

At any non Wrestlemania show I don't see a significant difference. They might even get paid more to do it in TNA.


I forgot Mysterio on the guys that got built up further list since he wasn't there for the invasion (like everyone else). But remember Russo pitching an idea that maybe the angle would work once all the names were actually there was so terrible that they got rid if him.

 

[Con T.]

Because it worked out so well for Goldberg ...

What does Goldberg have to complain about? He came in, made his money, and left in a year. Goldberg was always going to have issues in WWE; why should I believe Sting, who's coming in for far less dates and would presumably be paid a hefty sum, is going to end up like Goldberg?

I don't see how Sting is being stubborn now. Maybe back then but right now he has a job. Why isn't the Undertaker stubborn for not going to TNA to wrestle Sting there?

I want you to legitimately answer this question; I like TNA too, but if Undertaker were to come to TNA, and TNA were to run a Wrestlemania-esque stadium for a PPV, that they would honestly even fill the building?

Also, I don't get how past WCW guys not being built up is WWE's fault. All of the guys coming in from WCW, save for Booker T, did as well as they were going to. Fuck, some of them like Lance Storm overachieved, all things considered. Who on the WCW roster that came over to WWE didn't get the proper build? Chuck Palumbo? Sean O' Haire?

 

[shattered dreams]

I want you to legitimately answer this question; I like TNA too, but if Undertaker were to come to TNA, and TNA were to run a Wrestlemania-esque stadium for a PPV, that they would honestly even fill the building?

Who cares? The size of WM crowds actually detracts from my enjoyment when I watch the matches on the show. The entrances would be slightly less amazing, that's about the only difference I might care about.

I just don't get why the talent is stubborn just because they won't do exactly what you want them to regardless of reason.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Depends on how you look at it. If Vince had done a better job integrating WCW, don't you think Goldberg might have felt differently working there?

Frankly no, I don't think he would have felt differently working there had Vince done things differently. I think Goldberg had his own agenda, his own sense of self worth, and when Vince and the WWE didn't cater excessively to him, he decided to leave, and in a pretty unprofessional manner at that.

Even with the way that Vince integrated WCW, there were plenty of guys who excelled there. Even Booker T hasn't really had too bad of a career there.

At any non Wrestlemania show I don't see a significant difference. They might even get paid more to do it in TNA.

So you are suggesting that Sting leaving the clearly second place promotion, after achieving pretty much everything possible there, including being the first and only inductee into their premature Hall of Fame, to go to the number one promotion for a large payday, significant exposure, and induction into another Hall of Fame, that's the same thing as the Undertaker heading in the other direction where he would have absolutely nothing personally to gain?

Remember now, trolling is against the rules on these forums.

 

[Con T.]

Who cares? The size of WM crowds actually detracts from my enjoyment when I watch the matches on the show. The entrances would be slightly less amazing, that's about the only difference I might care about.

Wrestling's onlygoal
Make the promoter money
You would fail at this

 

[Con T.]

I just don't get why the talent is stubborn just because they won't do exactly what you want them to regardless of reason.

Yes, because it isn't like Sting wouldn't get a massive payday from one match. For one match, Sting could likely name his price, do something he even admits he'd like to do, and retire to earn royalty checks for years. Yes, Sting clearly doesn't benefit from this.


And let's just say Sting isn't about the money... That he cares about what the fans want. I can guarantee you, if we polled fans, a vast majority of fans would rather he go to WWE for one match, than stay in TNA. And the fans, more than Eric Bischoff, more than Dixie Carter, more than Ted Turner, and more than Bill Watts, made Sting into a made man

 

[shattered dreams]

Wrestling's onlygoal
Make the promoter money
You would fail at this

I thought you were chastising Sammartino for not doing it "for the fans."

 

[Con T.]

I thought you were chastising Sammartino for not doing it "for the fans."

The only point in bringing up money is that Bruno and Sting aren't getting hurt by this. The only point, for a promoter is to make money.

I get it; for Vince, it's a money ploy. For fans, there are people who will pluck down this cash to see Bruno, and to see Sting. And that's what both of these men are depriving fans, because they're petty.

 

[shattered dreams]

Even with the way that Vince integrated WCW, there were plenty of guys who excelled there. Even Booker T hasn't really had too bad of a career there.

Plenty?

So you are suggesting that Sting leaving the clearly second place promotion, after achieving pretty much everything possible there, including being the first and only inductee into their premature Hall of Fame, to go to the number one promotion for a large payday, significant exposure, and induction into another Hall of Fame, that's the same thing as the Undertaker heading in the other direction where he would have absolutely nothing personally to gain.

Why does Sting need exposure, money or a Hall of Fame for a company he has never worked for? TNA can pay Taker and randomly induct him in a HOF. It just seems silly to me to pretend that the situations are so different that one is trolling while the other is a must do.

 

[shattered dreams]

The only point in bringing up money is that Bruno and Sting aren't getting hurt by this. The only point, for a promoter is to make money.

So who wins your hypothetical Sting Taker match?

I get it; for Vince, it's a money ploy. For fans, there are people who will pluck down this cash to see Bruno, and to see Sting. And that's what both of these men are depriving fans, because they're petty.

Now it is petty not to make money for Vince in spite of what a wrestler personally want to do?

 

[klunderbunker]

Someone answer this for me: why is it so important to see Sting go to WWE? He's most famous for NEVER going to WWE, so why take away the most famous part of his career? Maybe he's happy with the money and fame he's got and just doesn't want to. Sting doesn't owe anyone a thing and I don't get this mentality that his career is incomplete by not going to Vince's company.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Plenty?

Yes, plenty.

Why does Sting need exposure, money or a Hall of Fame for a company he has never worked for? TNA can pay Taker and randomly induct him in a HOF. It just seems silly to me to pretend that the situations are so different that one is trolling while the other is a must do.

I don't imagine Sting needs the money. If he's been any way intelligent at all managing his money over his illustrious career, I would guess he's likely set for life. All the same, though, the lure of the big pay day must be somewhat of an enticement as his career winds down due to his age, regardless of where he chooses to end it.

Exposure and the WWE Hall of Fame are things he probably doesn't need either. But it just seems to me to be an obvious blank spot on an otherwise pretty successful and complete career. Claims by those that he's truly "the Icon" seem a little hollow to me if he's not displayed his talents on the biggest stage of all. Don't get me wrong, personally, I have no interest in Sting/Undertaker in 2013 or beyond. Ten years ago maybe, but not now. I'm simply responding to Haiku's OP which questioned whether or not his motivations for not ever coming to WWE were selfish.

And I know you don't truly believe the comment that Undertaker randomly going to TNA and entering their Hall of Fame is the same thing as Sting coming to do the same thing in WWE. Black and white and you know it.

 

[BaconBits]

If Sting never appears for WWE, which is the most likely scenario, it's really no skin off my back. I mean, I really don't care. I highly doubt casual WWE fans do either. In fact, I'd bet +90% of the current casual fanbase doesn't even know who Sting is.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Bruno is more stubborn. There is no harm or risk in being inducted in to a Hall of Fame and giving a little speech in front of adoring fans.

Sting wrestling in WWE is far more risky at this point in his career. There is probably some fear in his mind that he would walk in to WM and stink up the joint. Not a good legacy to leave.