Who passed the torch to Stone Cold Steve Austin?
- Thread starter D-Will316
- Start date
At the risk of being somewhat blackballed, austin, as entertaining as he was flipping people off, raising hell, cussing on tv, and driving monster trucks into arena, he owes his success in the ring to McMahon and to those he wrestled. In this sense, he was John Cena before John Cena.
Who made the WM submission match, Bret. WHo made WM 14, a broken-backed HBK. Who carried Summerslam 98, Taker (Austin even admitted he had a terrible match). Triple H, Rock, I could go on with a list of people Austin wrestled who made Austin look better than he was in the ring, despite Austin being the face of the company.
(Similarly, John Cena is carried by those he wrestles. Hell, he'll probably even be carried by Sheamus at TLC.)
But back to Austin and the torch question, I guess I say McMahon let Austin borrow it... isn't that how it really works anyway?
Who made the WM submission match, Bret. WHo made WM 14, a broken-backed HBK. Who carried Summerslam 98, Taker (Austin even admitted he had a terrible match). Triple H, Rock, I could go on with a list of people Austin wrestled who made Austin look better than he was in the ring, despite Austin being the face of the company.
(Similarly, John Cena is carried by those he wrestles. Hell, he'll probably even be carried by Sheamus at TLC.)
But back to Austin and the torch question, I guess I say McMahon let Austin borrow it... isn't that how it really works anyway?
RATED R CHAMPION
EDGE
WELL MAYBE HART GAVE AUSTIN THE PLATFORM AND ALL, MAYBE THE MATCH AT WRESTLEMANIA 13 WAS VERY GOOD, BUT IN TERMS OF PASSING THE TORCH IT WAS MICHAELS. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT PASSING THE TORCH YOU THINK ABOUT THE ESTABLISHED GUY WHO LOSSES TO A HOT COMER, AND THAT HOT COMER THEN BECOMES THE "MAN", SO THE ESTABLISHED "PASSES THE TORCH TO THE YOUNG COMER", TALKING ABOUT THAT SHAWN MICHAELS WAS THE MAN BEFORE AUSTIN AND AFTER WM 14, AUSTIN BECAME THE MAN , THAT WAS THE PASSING OF THE TORCH.
NOW, WHO PREPARED AUSTIN THE MOST? WHO MAYBE CEMENTED STONE COLD AS A SUPERSTAR, THAT COULD BE BRET HART
NOW, WHO PREPARED AUSTIN THE MOST? WHO MAYBE CEMENTED STONE COLD AS A SUPERSTAR, THAT COULD BE BRET HART
There definitely is no denying that they were already prepared to build the company around him. His feud with Hart made him a main eventer, but he didn't beat Hart so clearly the torch wasn't passed.
One thing is for certain though, the title around his waist solidified the Austin character, and made it official. Although he was probably the top draw already, he didn't have the torch officially I would say until he had the belt. The belt is a very important prop in this argument.
I am one of the people who feel that if HBK was at 100% he still would've dropped the title to Austin at 'Mania because it was just the right thing to do. Whether he wanted to or not isn't the issue, the fact is he did drop the title. That match at Wrestlemania with Austin winning was a turning point not only in Austin's career, but it then ushered in an official era. He officially reached the top of the mountain at WM 14 and wasn't the man until he put the belt around his waist. He then took that torch and ran with it. It was given to him by HBK by way of Vince McMahon and the fans.
In closing the transition was already in full steam from HBK to Austin and him beating HBK cleanly put the stamp on the Austin era. Torch passed.
BeansOnToastUK
Occasional Pre-Show
Ok i think this got taken the wrong way. I KNOW HHH cannot have passed the torch when he was a mid-carder with a bad character but what i said was that i was suprised nobody has mentioned HHH in their posts because as much as were talking about the torch being passed, being given the chance to do his own character at the KOTR 96 is what really made Austin. and this wouldnt have been possible if HHH didnt screw up. Granted this might have still happened but it was just worth a mention.
In my opionion I have to say Michaels offically "passed" the torch but it could not have been without Bret Hart putting Austin over the year before, but since the thread topic was who passed the torch my awnser is HBK.
I agree with a lot of the argument though that Austin was already the top draw by the time he won the belt at WM so he didn't seemingly get the torched "passed" to him because in that sense it would make the assumption that HBK put Austin over and that was not the case.
Austin was already over, and HBK was injured and it only seemed fit to have him win the belt. Austin was a much better draw in my opionion than HBK and after Austin got the belt from Shawn thats when RAW began to overtake Nitro in the monday night wars. (which I"m not saying was ALL because of Austin there were many reasons behind it, but it was definitly a major factor)
I agree with a lot of the argument though that Austin was already the top draw by the time he won the belt at WM so he didn't seemingly get the torched "passed" to him because in that sense it would make the assumption that HBK put Austin over and that was not the case.
Austin was already over, and HBK was injured and it only seemed fit to have him win the belt. Austin was a much better draw in my opionion than HBK and after Austin got the belt from Shawn thats when RAW began to overtake Nitro in the monday night wars. (which I"m not saying was ALL because of Austin there were many reasons behind it, but it was definitly a major factor)
Slam Master
Pre-Show Stalwart
Both Michaels and Hart played important roles in Austin's rise. Bret helped Austin in late 1996-early 1997. Michael's was aligned with Austin to win the tag titles in the summer of 1997 which helps anyone get somewhat over. They had a great match at King of the Ring 1997, great interview segments and backstage vignettes during that time, and his feud with DX and the match with Michaels put Austin as the champ. Bret's match at WM13 was a classic, but Michaels' was for the belt on the biggest stage of them all.
Undercurrent
Occasional Pre-Show
I believe many of you are failing to understand that a loss doesn't necessarily hurt a career. Austin may have lost to Bret at WM 13, but he came out looking like a legit main eventer who was going to carry the company into the future.
Bret Hart stated on several occasions that Austin was the future of the industry and deserved every bit of success that came his way. Was Shawn that supportive? I highly doubt it.
Bret Hart stated on several occasions that Austin was the future of the industry and deserved every bit of success that came his way. Was Shawn that supportive? I highly doubt it.
ted sheckler
Pre-Show Stalwart
I don't think people are arguing whether his matches with Bret elevated his career or not. Of course they did. But the term "passing the torch" certainly does not mean losing two high profile matches...
Bret pulled Austin up to mainevent status... But he didn't put him over as the number one guy. And as I said before.. The torch wasn't even Brets to give. The number one guy in the business (storywise) at that point was Shawn.. He had beaten Bret twice.. beaten the Undertaker twice.. beaten Sid... destroyed the Hart Foundation.. HBK put Austin over clean in the middle of the ring on the biggest stage of them all and Austin was officially "the man".. the top dog in WWF. If thats not passing the torch I don't know what is..
Austin was already the top dog come WM14, HBK giving him the belt, knowing he had to reitre and the Undertaker forcing him too, didn't make a whole pile of difference in my opinion. Austin would have been at the top even if he didn't win the title. He was so over with the crowd it was ridiculous. There was no doubt that it was Bret who made Austin, elevated him onto Brets level. Anyone can see that. Bret did alot more for Austin than HBK did.
Just put it that way.
ted sheckler
Pre-Show Stalwart
Austin was the "most over" person at that point.. But that doesn't mean he was "the top dog" in WWF. He had the people and Bret elevated him to the upper card/main event status but Austin didn't have any wins over proven maineventers.. His win over Shawn Michaels cemented him as "the guy".. "The champion" "The new face of the WWF" That is the moment the Austin era begun.
Eventually.. but not like the push he got from winning the title from HBK.
Bret certainly didn't "make" Austin... Steve did that... Bret helped elevated him to Brets level. But enough with all the Bret fans trying desperately to tie Austins success to to Bret simply to add something to Brets legacy. Bret was great.. his legacy stands on its own he helped Austin but he DID NOT pass the torch to Austin... By every definition available Shawn did.
I wouldn't really say that any one of them would be considered the one that passed the torch. Without Jake Roberts, the Austin 3:16 wouldn't have been born, which elevated him. The Brian Pillman angle was awesome, and boosted him further, his matches with Bret made him bigger, and then the final send off was the HBK/Austin/Tyson feud. So really it was a joint effort if anything.
And to go back before the WWF, he really started the Stone Cold persona in ECW after he was fired from WCW, so in a way even Paul Heyman had some hand in it as well.
But to agree with everyone else, it probably would have been done with any group of wrestlers that he had to work with, it seemed destined. There wasn't really any stopping him from taking the torch whether they wanted him with it or not.
And to go back before the WWF, he really started the Stone Cold persona in ECW after he was fired from WCW, so in a way even Paul Heyman had some hand in it as well.
But to agree with everyone else, it probably would have been done with any group of wrestlers that he had to work with, it seemed destined. There wasn't really any stopping him from taking the torch whether they wanted him with it or not.
wrestler36
Championship Contender
I feel like nobody officially passed the torch to Austin, the way that Andre passed to Hogan or Flair to Sting etc. I would think the closest thing as far as a defining moment of Stone Cold as the real deal or the next big thing (sorry Brock) would be his refusal the tap to the sharpshooter. All that blood loss and passing out was amazing. Hart and Austin switched positions that night. He officially became the face for everyone, at least in the states. HBK and Austin could have been just as big, but I think with HBK injured and all the hoopla with Tyson, the media hype overshadowed everything. So, I don't really think the torch was passed to him, but I would say that his match with hart was more defining of him than winning the title at Mania.
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
I want to say it's the Shawn Michaels match at WM14. But that match was more significant to Shawn and his fans as opposed to Austin. You can argue, of course, that Shawn was the man on top, he was champion, and Austin took that title from him, left him completely undignified in the middle of the ring and 'retired' him. However, Shawn was only theoretically the face of the company, as champion. Austin was what the WWE needed, and they used that throughout the attitude era. Austin was already the top of the company at this point.
When it comes to men who are THAT important to the business at a specific time, such as Austin or Hogan, no one really passes a torch. There presence is so great that they are just the top, they aren't passed a torch, they just take one.
When it comes to men who are THAT important to the business at a specific time, such as Austin or Hogan, no one really passes a torch. There presence is so great that they are just the top, they aren't passed a torch, they just take one.
Ok the reason Hogan didn't pass the torch was because he knew he was leaving and it would've looked bad to have a face Bret Hart beat the legendary Hulk Hogan cleanly nor did Hogan want to lose that way to anyone else. He should've lost the belt to Yokozuna and passed the torch through yoko but he couldn't even do that. Really Bret had the torch passed through the other legend in the WWE Ric Flair as soon as Bret won the title from Ric he had the torch because to be the man you have to beat the man. Ric had only fought Hogan one time in the WWE because WWE didn't ever want to give the fans that match right away. Flair did beat Savage who had been in the WWE a decade and had become a 2 time champion in his own right.
So really if you want to talk about who had the torch pre austin it was between HBK and Bret, Bret had given Shawn his spot in the main event, but many feel like he got conned into being a heel because of it. But to say that Hogan never passed the torch to either man so no one gave it to Austin would be a stupid assumption because Hogan wasn't the only main event talent that had been in the WWE.
So really if you want to talk about who had the torch pre austin it was between HBK and Bret, Bret had given Shawn his spot in the main event, but many feel like he got conned into being a heel because of it. But to say that Hogan never passed the torch to either man so no one gave it to Austin would be a stupid assumption because Hogan wasn't the only main event talent that had been in the WWE.
This is ridiculous. Bret passed the torch to Austin. He may not have beat bret but he sure as hell made a name for himself by feuding with him. The final minute of his WM13 match with Bret is far more memorable and historic than his match with Michaels. Its fact. Also, like others have said, Austin was already the face of the company by WM14. Hell Austin was a bigger star than Michaels ever was or has been in 1997. The feud with Bret is what made him a player, hence the torch was passed.
King Douche
Pre-Show Stalwart
yeah the feud with Bret Hart literally made Austin a house hold name. I mean that feud was awesome, with Austin going to Bret's family and beating them up so Bret could accept Austin's challenge to wrestle him in a match. Then they had a classic match at Survivor Series in 1996 at Madison Square Garden, which resulted in fans cheering Austin and booing Hart. And Austin was the hell and Bret the face. Then of course their submission match at Wrestle Mania 13 was just an instant classic. Bret Hart for sure passed the torch to Austin. Cannot say HBK anyways since in the 90s HBK did not want to put anyone over and Bret Hart did not mind to put people over. If HBK did not have to leave after WM 14 to heal from his injuries, he proably would not have dropped the belt to Austin cause of his ego.
theHeadliner
Getting Noticed By Management
That's a good point, and the reason behind Hogan not wanting to job the right way cus he was leaving is the same thing Bret did at Survivor Series 1997. Bret was turned heel because he was becoming stagnet with his character and Vince had given the top face spot to Shawn and wasn't going to change it, mainly because HBK was really the man at the time when it came to having great matches. He went out and had a different match every time and put it all on the line. Austin benefitted from both Shawn and Bret, and they both contributed to his receiving of the torch. When they aligned Austin and Shawn with the tag titles they it was important because HBK was the top guy and he was associated with that top guy in not only matches, but the classic vignettes and promos between the two. They had a classic match at King of the Ring with a cool concept(tag champ vs tag champ). There is also no doubt that Austin's matches with Bret elevated his ring status ten-fold.
If anyone truly passed the torch to Austin and making him a name to be recognised, it was OWEN, not Bret Hart.
During that now infamous match with Owen, Austin suffered a broken neck, an injury that greatly shortened his career (not that it mattered). But he STILL finished the match and even took away a victory.
The roll up may not have looked that convincing but that was the point; Austin was legitimately hurt and still didn't quit. It was a moment where kayfabe was broken and the true heart of a champion and future legend was laid bare. Austin's career went from high to high from that day on.
During that now infamous match with Owen, Austin suffered a broken neck, an injury that greatly shortened his career (not that it mattered). But he STILL finished the match and even took away a victory.
The roll up may not have looked that convincing but that was the point; Austin was legitimately hurt and still didn't quit. It was a moment where kayfabe was broken and the true heart of a champion and future legend was laid bare. Austin's career went from high to high from that day on.
lordslix0129
Got Root?
There wasn't just one person that passed the torch to Stone Cold, it was a combination effort of everyone he feuded with in his first 3 years of the WWF, but most of all, it was Vince Mcmahon. Bret Hart and HBK helped solidify Steve Austin as not only a well rounded wrestler, but a main event attraction. They really helped make Austin a house hold name, but not a legend or an icon.
Vince's feud with Steve Austin between 97-99 helped elevate him into iconic and legendary status, but it was a combination effort of Vince and Rock that helped Steve become as popular as he was for those two years. Steve took charge, but he had the perfect heels to go against.
Imagine if there was nobody else to feud with after HBK and Bret retired? You can't wrestle yourself.
Vince's feud with Steve Austin between 97-99 helped elevate him into iconic and legendary status, but it was a combination effort of Vince and Rock that helped Steve become as popular as he was for those two years. Steve took charge, but he had the perfect heels to go against.
Imagine if there was nobody else to feud with after HBK and Bret retired? You can't wrestle yourself.