Who passed the torch to Stone Cold Steve Austin?

[D-Will316]

Who passed the torch to Stone Cold?

Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels

I'm pretty sure that I saw this already, but can't for the life of me find it so....
HBK and The Hitman both jump started his push, but who's impact or which match is most important.

WrestleMania 13 Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (submission only) - In this match Austin walked in a heel and walked out a face. The match was excellent and the finish was perfect, having never submit. Austin won the Royal Rumble this year, but didn't face the Champion. Would Austin be different today If he faced Psycho Sid instead?

WrestleMania 14 Shawn Michaels vs. Steve Austin (wwf championship) - Austin again won the royal rumble and this time got his WM main event. Match was good, but kind of ruined when Tyson counted to 3 way too fast. This was also the start of the most popular era in wrestling. The Austin/Attitude Era.

So which won was more relevant to Austin's success in your opinion?

 

[klunderbunker]

Of those two matches, Hart by far and away. When Austin beat Shawn, it was nothing mroe than a formality. It was known before the Rumble that Austin was the undisputed top star in the company and that he would be given the title at Mania, no questions asked. Before the submission match, Austin was just a cocky young heel that hadn't proven a damn thing. The timing was perfect when he fought Bret though as people were just fed up with the standard good guy vs. bad guy thing and Bret agreed to be the guy that made the turn that everyone wanted to be made as an old school good guy turned to the dark side while the brash young gun that was the voice of the entire generation stepped up to fight him. That match did more for a wrestler than anything in history save for maybe Hogan beating Sheik. Shawn losing the belt was just a formality. Austin vs. Bret was arguably the second most important match of all time, so this isn't close.

 

["Cool Guy" Jensen]

In my opinion, I think both Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart can be given credit for passing the torch to Stone Cold, however in different ways. The submission match between Stone Cold and Bret Hart, especially the ending is what put Steve Austin on the map, turning him into a house-hold name. Shawn Michaels can be given the credit for giving Austin his first ever WWE Championship, which helped start the "Austin Era".

While both can be given some of the credit, some can argue that The Undertaker somewhat helped. I say that because, had it not been for HBK's back injury during the casket match with Undertaker, he might not have dropped the title to Steve Austin at Wrestlemania 14, who knows? HBK could have remained champ for longer, and the "Austin Era" would not have existed as early.

Vince McMahon is who made Stone Cold Steve Austin "The Toughest S.O.B. in the WWE". Had it not been for all those attacks on the chairman, Austin would not have had such the strong following he has now. Same with the attacks on The Rock.

So, I cannot just pick one person to made Stone Cold Steve Austin, but if you're talking about who "passed the torch", I'd pick Shawn Michaels over Bret Hart. If you ask who made it, I've say it's a mixture of HBK, Bret Hart, Vince McMahon, and... to a lesser extent, The Undertaker and The Rock.

 

[InterestingDrug]

I would say Bret Hart. The WM13 match put him over as a legit main eventer and star of the future. There's no denying that. Stone Cold is a self-made star. There really wasnt much of anything like him in WWF at the time. He just needed that one match that proved that he had arrived. That was the WM13 match.

Shawn Michaels never was a guy that carried the WWF/E. He has always been a great performer and has had some of the best matches ever, but he never was the face of the organization. There was always a more known star than Shawn. Someone more recognizable. Prior to Stone Cold, Bret Hart was the face of the WWF. You never saw Shawn Michaels immortalized on the Simpsons or footage of him in the opening of sitcoms (Malcom). Bret passed the torch to Austin as the face of the company.

 

[Slyfox696]

No one. No one passed the torch to Steve Austin, he just reached out and grabbed the mother fucker.

Who helped make him more? Definitely Bret Hart. Bret Hart is the guy who gave Austin the platform he needed to take off and be the superstar he was. But, in the end, Austin made himself, with his character that was completely unique at the time, and something that people wanted to see.

 

[shafe_41]

Dammit. Slyfox beat me to the punch. Who passed it to Austin? Nobody. I wouldn't even say Austin reached out and grabbed the torch. Austin invented the damn torch. It was a torch he carried that was fueled by 100% Whoop-Ass. Sure his match with Bret Hart is a little more memorable than his one with HBK so you could say Bret Hart did help him out a little bit more. But Austin invented the torch that he carried. Austin 3:16 was a torch of its own. From that... came one of the biggest stars in the history of the business.

 

[RicSpade]

You can't just sit there and say Austin invented the damn torch and no one helped elevate Austin because everyone used someone to get to main event status, Ric Flair used Harley Race, Sting used Ric Flair, Hogan used Iron Sheik, Shiek used Bob Backlund, Bret Hart used Ric Flair, Nash used Bret, Shawn used Savage, and Austin had elevation from Bret first before HBK but some would argue that if he hadn't beaten Jake Roberts (as uncoordinated as he was his 2nd run) he wouldn't have been able to put himself over as Stone Cold and let the legend of 3:16 begin.

In all honesty in terms of being a major star it really was made more from Bret due to their long feud, of which included his feud with Owen and his short stint with former tag partner Pillman. HBK while a major star and really placed his hat at Wrestlemania as a main eventer, started by stealing the show with Bret at WM 13.

Then you can go on from there who else made who.

 

[healyz84]

Before I get on this, I just want to point out that if Austin did not face Hart at WM, he would not have faced Psycho Sid. If you do recall, Austin was eliminated from the Royal Rumble, and then came back in to eliminate Vader, Taker, and Hart. It was announced that these four men would face in a fatal four way with the winner facing HBK at WM. But, HBK got injured(lost his smile) and so the eventual winner of this match, Hart, became the champion. He then had to defend the title against Sid, who was already booked in a match with Taker. In the end, Sid beat Hart and the Hart/Austin match became just a submission match (because it did not need the title stipulation, it already was a huge match).

Anyways, you can say that nobody passed the torch to Austin, but thats a load of crap. When Austin came to the wwe, he was the 'ringmaster' a lame protegy of the million dollar man. When he lost his match to Savio Vega, the Million dollar man had to disband his corporation. Of course, Austin says he lost this match on purpose to get rid of the million dollar man. So the next step for Austin was the KOTR, where of course he won and uttered his famous 3:16 proclaimation. But then, what was next for Austin. At this point, Austin could have gone and feuded with the midcard for the next year or so, and then who knows. But, the wwe, and Hart I believe, saw the reaction he got from the fans, and realized it was something special.

So Bret Hart, who had been missing from the wwe since his match with HBK, is constantly barraged by Austin to make his return and fight him. Hart comes, beats him at the survivor series, and eventually beats him at Wrestlemania.

The question then remains, did Hart pass the torch to Austin?

The answer, of course, is no. Austin never beat Hart in a ppv match, he never got that torch passing from Hart. Bret Hart said in an interview that one of his biggest regrets was that he was never able to face Austin again and really pass the torch to him. What Hart did was help elevate Austin to the status he eventually got to. Hart was a huge superstar, he easily could have booked Austin to lose cleanly to the sharpshooter. Instead he had him pass out. The landscape I think would be a lot different if Austin tapped out.

So to answer the question of who passed the torch, the answer is Shawn Micheals. HBK was the last of the old generation of wwe stars (HBK, Hart, Hall, Nash ect) not named Undertaker who was still around at this time. When Austin won the title from HBK, it ushered in the new generation. This feud was the beginning of the Mcmahon/Austin feud. It was also HBK's 'retirement match' as he was never suppose to be able to wrestle again, and did not do so for 4 years.

So HBK, while losing to Austin when he was at the top and at the grandest stage, did pass the torch to Austin.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Passing the torch is a term I wouldn't use for Austin. If you know the story of Austin, you know that he was in the mid-card for many years and was fired by WCW, despite being a success. Austin decided to take it upon himself and reinvent his character. The birth of that character was at King of the Ring when he won over the fans with his Austin 3:16 speech. That's when Austin decided he would just grab the torch and run away with it.

Sure Hart helped him get over, and Shawn eventually put him over as well, but the thing that helped Austin the most was timing. If Shawn wasn't hurt, then who knows if Austin wins at Wrestlemania? Austin wasn't passed anything. The torch was taken from Hart and Michaels at the time and Austin decided to run with it. I don't think the correct term is 'passing the torch'. It's more like 'taking the ball and running with it'. That's what Austin did.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

Passing the torch is a term I wouldn't use for Austin. If you know the story of Austin, you know that he was in the mid-card for many years and was fired by WCW, despite being a success. Austin decided to take it upon himself and reinvent his character. The birth of that character was at King of the Ring when he won over the fans with his Austin 3:16 speech. That's when Austin decided he would just grab the torch and run away with it.

Sure Hart helped him get over, and Shawn eventually put him over as well, but the thing that helped Austin the most was timing. If Shawn wasn't hurt, then who knows if Austin wins at Wrestlemania? Austin wasn't passed anything. The torch was taken from Hart and Michaels at the time and Austin decided to run with it. I don't think the correct term is 'passing the torch'. It's more like 'taking the ball and running with it'. That's what Austin did.

I agree 100%. Others helped Austin but even without Hart or HBK Austin was getting over. He took the ball and left everyone in the dust.

Now as far as who helped Austin the most, I would say Hart. That match really cemented the Stonecold character.

 

[THE SWAG]

I think is a combination of things of course hart and hbk with there series of matches, but i would have to say more so the mcmahon fued put him on the map, just having the rebel going up against the asshole boss which everyone wanted punch in the face and he did it.

 

[P. Nut Butters]

I think another guy may have said this before me, but anyhow - Steve Austin wasn't another case of "Here is your top guy - now where should we take him?" I think Austin lit himself his own torch.

I was watching WrestleMania 14 yesterday, and I'd forgotten just how good of a match Austin/Michaels was. I believe Austin's matches stole the show at 13 and 14, but by 14 there wasn't any doubt who Austin could be. Also, I think it might be seldom heard, but I got the ol' original VHS WM14, and at the end it's got a post-match press conference between Austin, McMahon and Tyson... it was really interesting because it kinda climaxed the Austin shift. Here he was, telling all these reporters from Wrestling Media, Newspapers and even the Boxing world that Steve Austin OWNS professional wrestling. He's saying that having beaten Shawn Michaels and also with the kudos of Mike Tyson - it doesn't get more concrete than that.

Austin used what he had to propel himself off the backs of Bret, Vince and Shawn. The biggest key was not somebody passing Steve a torch, it was Austin lighting it for himself.

 

[ted sheckler]

I've always know the passing of the torch to mean such things as "Andre passing it to Hogan @WM3" and Hogan to Warrior... Bret to Shawn... HHH to Benoit...ect.." And something that fits in that whole idea is Shawn passing it to Austin.. NOT Bret beating Austin...

To be fair I certainly think Brets matches and feuds really helped propel him to the top but at that time the torch wasn't even Brets to give. The number one guy in the company at the time was Shawn.. Shawn was even maineventing PPV's as Bret(as the champ) was in the upper midcard.. Bret knows that he never passed the torch to Austin because he even listed it as one of his big regrets that he wasn't around WWE to put people over properly.

After Austin lost to Bret he was viewed as "ONE OF" the top guys.. But after the DX feud with the Tyson spots Austin became "THE GUY"

 

[BeansOnToastUK]

I'm suprised that nobody has mentioned Triple H. I say this because Triple H was mean't to be winning the 1996 King of the Ring. But didn't because he was a "naughty boy" and got held back for a year. This allowed Austin to cut the promo that set out his career creating... Austin 3:16. Everything from this point on was pretty much his own creation but out of the 2 you have to say Bret hart because it's the one match where a heel and face have switched roles within a match when they wasn't designed too. Plus they had the classic match at Survivor Series in 96 aswell. Bret deffinately gave Austin the credability and by the time Austin and HBK fought he was pretty much bigger than HBK at that stage anyway (unless you include there match at the 97 King of the Ring)

 

[Blade]

Like it's been said, passing the torch to and putting on the map are too completely different things. No one passed the torch to Austin. He lit his own, said fuck you and ran with it.

But in terms of who put him on the map, Hart. There's simply no other answer. Never would Austin have been able to show his main event potential if he hadn't been booked to face Bret Hart that night. Sure, the 3:16 speech got him over. But that didn't show much apart from the fact that he could talk, which isn't enough to become a main eventer. But when Bret Hart and Austin put on that match at Wrestlemania 13, it showed that Austin was the future.
Michaels put Austin over because he had to. Who knows what would've happened if Michaels had been healthy or if Hart had still been in the company. But Michaels having to retire does not count as passing the torch to Austin.

 

[gers09]

i am a HBK fan more then bret but i would say bret because of the submission match by the time stone cold faced hbk he was star but it was the submission match that help to make stone cold the fans knew after that match what he would do to entertain them and i was one hell of a match the hardcore old school fans love when someone leaves blood like steve did

 

[Suneeboy]

When you talk about "Passing The Torch" there is no denying that Shawn Michaels was the guy. He did the honors on the grandest stage of them all to give Austin his 1st World Title and cement his legacy. He catapulted Austin to SUPERSTAR STATUS! Bret put him over, and there were others who helped him, but HBK did the honors and passed the torch end of story. Austin ran with it well.

To say he took the torch is a good argument, but it is flawed and I respectfully disagree. HBK then went into retirement after that match...how is that NOT passing the torch to him? He was the face of the WWE, and he jobbed cleanly to Austin who then became the undisputed face of the WWE. There really isn't much to debate here.

 

[Slyfox696]

To say he took the torch is a good argument, but it is flawed and I respectfully disagree. HBK then went into retirement after that match...how is that NOT passing the torch to him? He was the face of the WWE, and he jobbed cleanly to Austin who then became the undisputed face of the WWE. There really isn't much to debate here.

The problem is that HBK WASN'T the face of the company when Austin beat him, Austin was already the face of the company. Austin was clearly the guy the WWE was building around, and that was able to be seen in the summer of 1997. You can't pass a torch to a guy who already has it.

Austin's two matches with Hart, and his feud with Hart, is what got him his notoriety. But, I wouldn't say Hart passed him the torch, he just helped make him famous.

Nobody passed Austin a torch, he just grabbed it and ran.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

When you talk about "Passing The Torch" there is no denying that Shawn Michaels was the guy. He did the honors on the grandest stage of them all to give Austin his 1st World Title and cement his legacy. He catapulted Austin to SUPERSTAR STATUS! Bret put him over, and there were others who helped him, but HBK did the honors and passed the torch end of story. Austin ran with it well.

Actually, Austin was catapulted to Superstar status in his match with Hart, but he did win his first major title against Shawn, who was injured and HAD to retire. It's not exactly passing the torch when you didn't want to pass it in the first place. Hence, why Austin took the torch and ran with it.

To say he took the torch is a good argument, but it is flawed and I respectfully disagree. HBK then went into retirement after that match...how is that NOT passing the torch to him?

Because Shawn didn't want to do it. If he was healthy, you can believe he would have tried his damnedest to keep the title. If HBK was healthy and was still active after this match, I'd say he may have passed the torch. But being forced to retire due to injury isn't passing the torch.

He was the face of the WWE, and he jobbed cleanly to Austin who then became the undisputed face of the WWE. There really isn't much to debate here.

Actually there is. Austin winning over Shawn was a formality due to HBK's back. There was no passing of any torch. It was the WWE taking the spotlight off of Shawn and putting it on Stone Cold. The matches that made him a star was his KOTR victory and his Submission match with Bret Hart. Austin was already a star before his match with Michaels. So HBK did not pass a torch to Stone Cold. Just the WWE Title that he had to vacate due to his injuries.

 

[mr.davidson]

U have to have the Torch first before you can pass it.

Neither of those 2 ever owned the torch it the first place it belongs to Hogan. He might have pssed to the ROCK, but as 4 those 2 as good as they are the never had it 2 begin with.....

Though i will agree with the statement made earlier.. Stone cold just reached out and withour ever facing Hogan snatched for him self without ever needing to face him.

Austin is unique and he did it all on his own.... The other 2 were just mid card replacements for Hogan until Vince stumbled on to the real deal which was Austin

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

U have to have the Torch first before you can pass it.

Neither of those 2 ever owned the torch it the first place it belongs to Hogan. He might have passed to the ROCK, but as 4 those 2 as good as they are the never had it 2 begin with.....

Though i will agree with the statement made earlier.. Stone cold just reached out and without ever facing Hogan snatched for him self without ever needing to face him.

Austin is unique and he did it all on his own.... The other 2 were just mid card replacements for Hogan until Vince stumbled on to the real deal which was Austin

So Hart and Michaels are midcard replacements for Hogan? Multiple time WWE Champions and first ballot Hall of Famers were mid card replacements for Hogan? That may be the most asinine thing I've ever heard. Sure, Austin grabbed the torch and really didn't need to fight Hogan to get it, but he faced two great wrestlers in HBK and Hart.

Saying their 'midcard replacements for Hogan' is silly. Real silly.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

One could argue that Undertaker passed the torch to Austin.

There are two problems I see with using Bret or Shawn as the ones who passed the torch. Passing the torch entails a WWE superstar beating the top man in the industry, while we could argue Bret Hart was at the top of his game, Austin has never beaten Bret Hart.

For Shawn Michaels, yes Austin did beat HBK. One thing to note though while Shawn Michaels to be the leader of the "New Generation" and Bret was meant to pass the torch to him. Shawn Michaels only had a 1 year run as the top guy.

I would pick the Undertaker at Summer Slam 1998, this is because he was in the WWE at that period for almost 8 years during Austin's rise. Also Undertaker was seen as unbeatable at the time. In fact from what I recall before Austin beat Undertaker, no one in has beaten Undertaker cleanly in a match. Austin being the first to do so solidified him as the top guy and it was symbolic when Undertaker handed Austin the belt.

 

[Midnite Express 2009]

Wow, this one is a hard one to choose. Before I opened this thread up, I was going to say HBK. Shawn basically made the fans believe Austin could have won at WrestleMania while at the same time making the fans believe he was HBK & he still could come out of Mania as champion.

On the flip side, no one really believed that Austin was going to win a "sbumission" match with perhaps one of the most talented submission men ever in wrestling, Bret "The Hitman" Hart. So going into it, Austin needed to overcome those factors and he did, thus creating the ability for fans to really believe, later on, that he could have beaten the icon, Shawn Michaels. So I'd have to give the nod to Bret, for if they had not had that match, who knows, maybe Austin would have still been The Ringmaster with no ring to master.

 

[BOSTN BEANER]

I would say austin just did it himself. Bret put him over with the submission match when austin passed out instead of giving up but it wasn't necessarily passing the torch as much as putting him over. I don't think at the point that austin took over that anyone was worthy of passing the torch so I think it was more austin just taking it while no one else was worthy.

 

[LynchCats]

I'm suprised that nobody has mentioned Triple H. I say this because Triple H was mean't to be winning the 1996 King of the Ring. But didn't because he was a "naughty boy" and got held back for a year. This allowed Austin to cut the promo that set out his career creating... Austin 3:16. Everything from this point on was pretty much his own creation but out of the 2 you have to say Bret hart because it's the one match where a heel and face have switched roles within a match when they wasn't designed too. Plus they had the classic match at Survivor Series in 96 aswell. Bret deffinately gave Austin the credability and by the time Austin and HBK fought he was pretty much bigger than HBK at that stage anyway (unless you include there match at the 97 King of the Ring)

This is a joke, right? Triple H was a mid-card wrestler who had yet to win anything by the time the Hart/Austin WM match took place. For that matter, I don't even consider WM 13 to be the match that passed the torch from Bret Hart to Steve Austin.

When Bret Hart was out for the latter part of 1996 due to injuries, he hand picked Steve Austin to be his return opponent at Survivor Series 1996. I think this was the sign of the passing of the torch more so than the WM 13 match was.