Who has the biggest legacy???

[pepentorresHHH]

bret hart o shawn michaels???
i just finished watching the montreal screwjob after also watching their last man standing match, and both of this men s dvds and i was wondering who do you think has had the biggest impact on the industry??
Bret Hart carried the company from 93-96 and has had some truly amazing matches in his almost 20 year career and has won almost everything that there is to win.
Shawn Michaels won every single belt there is to win, has brought us and innovated a great number of matches such as the ladder match, the iron man match, hell in a cell, the elimination chamber.
both men took part in one of the most infamous moment in wrestling history and their carrer s changed from that point on.... bret s career went in decline after that and shawn michaels career just carried on greatly after he came back after his back injury.

who is better as far as the legacy they will leave???

 

[Queers and Steers]

i think its Shawn Michaels. i mean hes a guy you can throw in any type of match especially an upstart match concept and he has proven that if hes involved in it the bar will be set high! to me the fact that hes great in any match setting tips the scale in his favor to me Brett Hart was always just the same ol thing over and over! even though he was technical to the tee he also was very boring and to me hbk was the definition of excitement! his clothes his matches hiss assholish attitude (to me that made him better)
i mean growing up as a kid there was nothing better than watching the showstopper. they are without a doubt the happiest times of my life. i can literally remember watching every pay per view for fifteen years! and for 10.5 of those years he was the sole reason i watched . Brett Hart never had tyhat type of impact on me

 

[WrestlingHistorian]

This one is a hard one for me, I loved Shawn Michaels during his initial run in the WWF and I loved Bret Hart since the mid 80's when he was a tag-team competitor, but if I had to choose one that has the biggest legacy in wrestling I would have to choose Shawn Michaels, but only by a slight margin, people seem to forget just how good Bret Hart really was.....

 

[SavageTaker]

i think shawn because of the simple fact that he was able to continue wrestling longer, i think had hart not been injured by goldberg and not had his stroke then he would be pretty equal with shawn,but shawn has had more time therefore he was able to further his legacy IMO.

 

[Rated R SuperFan]

Shawn Micheals will leave a better legacy becuase the WWE fans have a jaded view of Bret Hart . Plain and simple people have forgotten how good Breat Hart was in the ring and on the mic . They will remember the damn Montrel Screw job and his bull**** stint in WCW . They will forget all about his 5 reigns as WWE Champion 2 reigns as Intercontinental Champion and his 2 reigns as World Tag Team Champion the fact that he is a 2 time triple crown winner a former King Of The Ring and won a Royal Rumble . They will forget all of this because Shawn Micheals is still working in the WWE and Bret Hart had his career Stolen from him in alot of ways by Vince McMahon and by a Bill Goldburg kick that was WAY off the mark .

 

[WrestlingHistorian]

Shawn Micheals will leave a better legacy becuase the WWE fans have a jaded view of Bret Hart . Plain and simple people have forgotten how good Breat Hart was in the ring and on the mic . They will remember the damn Montrel Screw job and his bull**** stint in WCW . They will forget all about his 5 reigns as WWE Champion 2 reigns as Intercontinental Champion and his 2 reigns as World Tag Team Champion the fact that he is a 2 time triple crown winner a former King Of The Ring and won a Royal Rumble . They will forget all of this because Shawn Micheals is still working in the WWE and Bret Hart had his career Stolen from him in alot of ways by Vince McMahon and by a Bill Goldburg kick that was WAY off the mark .

While the fans will have a jaded memory of Bret, the current crop of fans and the fans that came in during the "attitude era" are the ones who will always wonder "Why was Bret considered so good?". Bret was a great talent in the ring and had amazing psychology while wrestling, more so than maybe even that of Shawn Michaels, but Shawn is still active so the current fans and the "attitude era" fans will remember him more. Like I said in my other post in this thread, Shawn get's my vote but Bret was not far behind at all, to me, both men are ring legends.

 

[Hayes]

Bret Hart is my favorite wrestler of all-time, but I have to try to look at this subjectively and I feel it's hands down Shawn. I recently read Bret's book and I loved it, but you can't help but sense bitterness and self-loathing it The Hitman's words. Shawn came back to the WWE and on his second go around gave us some really awesome matches particularly last year's ladder match with Jericho. Bret was a better in ring psychologist, technician, and storyteller. Shawn however is a pure athlete and cuts really fast paced matches. Plus he always had much more charisma and mic skills than Bret. To me there in-ring ability is separate but equal, and Shawn is a much better entertainer. My favorite match of all-time is Hart v. Austin at Wrestlemania 13, and my second favorite is Michaels v. Taker in the first ever Hell in the Cell. During there times in mid to late 90s as the top dogs in the WWE they were neck in neck for both leaving behind great legacies. I also understand that Shawn was a real asshole at that time but he's repented, made huge changes and deserves redemption. Shawn is coming off an excellent year where he retired Ric Flair and had an outstanding feud with Jericho. Bret's releasing DVDs and books with an underlying theme of feeling sorry for himself. I love Bret but Shawn definitely has the bigger legacy.

 

[Savage1]

This is difficult to decide and its mostly because I have a great deal of respect for both of these guys. I will give the nod to Shawn on this one though. It hurts me to even have to make a choice. I would've picked Bret if we were going solely off the 80's and 90's but after Shawns comeback, against all odds and that terrible back injury, Shawn is the man. He has been an innovater and showstopper in the truest sense of the words. Just when you think he cant get any better, he gets better. Just when you think he cant have a better match then his last, he does. He is responsible for some of the best matches in the history of this business and he did a lot of it after he broke his back. I would guess that his match at Wrestlemania this year will, once again, set the bar and raise the standards and stop the show...he will once again show us why they call him Mr. Wrestlemania! Shawn is one of the top 3 guys in this business ever!

 

[Tastycles]

Bret Hart will absolutely not be remembered as much as Shawn Michaels, laregly due to the WWE popularity rollercoaster. Bret is on neutral terms with the company these days, but Shawn is the man who came from the brink of retirement and who, crucially, never left the company when he probably should have done, unlike Hart.

The WWE have a tendency to build their guys up as being more important than they were. If you ever watch something theymake about WCW, you will see Ric Flair and all of the others who went to WCW after its demise looking about 20 times as important as Sting. It's just what they do.

In an ideal world, where this didn't come into play, I'd struggle to make a pick. While Hart won more championships, and was probably technically better, Michaels certainly did a lot more to change wrestling. He popularised the ladder match, and was a part of the first Elimination Chamber and Hell in a Cell matches.

Hart, while technically very solid, didn't really do anything new, and technical ability isn't what is remembered. Michaels has done more to change the face of wrestling, and he is the more memorable in terms of his promos, angles and matches.

So, all in all, michaels will leave the larger legacy, though it won't be as superior as the WWE will make it out to be.

 

[LokiCobain]

Bret Hart had the misfortune of taking pride in actual wrestling, which in wrestling, means nothing. People would rather see shananagans than legitimate wrestling, and if anything, DX's legacy would trump Bret Hart's alone, with and without Shawn Michaels.

 

[AlexEqualsMoney]

I honestly think their legacies are fairly equal in clout. i will agree that Michaels will seem to have the edge in retrospect due to the fact that he was able to keep going longer.

if you look at it though, they both were part of awesome tag teams early in their career. they both had singles success. they were both part of factions that helped start the attitude era. and of course their paths intertwined multiple times, with the climax being the Screwjob.

they're both known for making their opponents look (almost) as good as they do. they've had some epic matches with some huge names......it's almost like their careers mirrored each other til the end.

the fact that michaels has stayed on good terms with WWE and has been able to stay at the top of his game since his return is probably what will push him over the edge.

 

[BlitzSage]

Bret Hart had the misfortune of taking pride in actual wrestling, which in wrestling, means nothing. People would rather see shananagans than legitimate wrestling, and if anything, DX's legacy would trump Bret Hart's alone, with and without Shawn Michaels.

I can sort of agree with you. But, performance-wise, Shawn is one of the best ever, bar none. Despite being one of the oldest wrestlers still wrestling, he can still out-perform Cena, Batista, and even Orton and Edge any day.

Though he is more well known for DX, he revolutionized tag team wrestling a decade before that. If you watch some of those old Rocker matches you can tell their influence today. And while the Excellence of Execution was giving perfect matches, Shawn was right there with him.

But what gives Shawn the bigger legacy is that he did what you said: he blended old school with new school. He could compete with Bret in an hour-long match, or electrify the crowd with Taker in the Cell. By doing this, he really helped usher in, just as much as Flair or Hogan or Taker did, the Modern Era of wrestling.

 

[schaeffershawn]

I will never understand the respect that Hart gets. His brother was a better and more compelling performer. This is sports entertainment boys and girls and while Bret was a great technical wrestler, his promos were boring, and when they tried to change his character to reflect the times he came off as if he were lost out there.

HBK on the other hand is sports entertainment he can leave it all in the ring and do what bRet could never make you suspend disbelief. When did Bret ever have a fued like HBK's with HHH, or with Jericho or with JBL were there was so much emotion it almost felt real, the truth is he only ever had that with Owen and HBK. That is why his legacey is greater because he left u with more then just flawless matches, he left us with flawless angles, promos, and plot twist. To blame the short sightness of the fans or the office is pure ignorance to the simple fact that the WWE is a sports entertainment company and for teh better part of 20 years HBK has been one of teh afces of that sports entertainment. In reality Hart was something out of teh 40's or 60's when wrestling was rasslin

 

[CENAtion]

I will never understand the respect that Hart gets. His brother was a better and more compelling performer. This is sports entertainment boys and girls and while Bret was a great technical wrestler, his promos were boring, and when they tried to change his character to reflect the times he came off as if he were lost out there.

HBK on the other hand is sports entertainment he can leave it all in the ring and do what bRet could never make you suspend disbelief. When did Bret ever have a fued like HBK's with HHH, or with Jericho or with JBL were there was so much emotion it almost felt real, the truth is he only ever had that with Owen and HBK. That is why his legacey is greater because he left u with more then just flawless matches, he left us with flawless angles, promos, and plot twist. To blame the short sightness of the fans or the office is pure ignorance to the simple fact that the WWE is a sports entertainment company and for teh better part of 20 years HBK has been one of teh afces of that sports entertainment. In reality Hart was something out of teh 40's or 60's when wrestling was rasslin

Now dont get me wrong I agree with you on one point, HBK has the bigger legacy. BUT you talk about HBK having this big time heated feuds that seem real, what was Bret Hart vs Stone Cold Steve Austin from 96-97. That was a feud that was driven on the fact it seemed so real and that both men wanted to kill each other. Austin wanted to hurt anyone associated with Bret, and Bret wanted Austin out of the WWF. Both men showed a hatred for the other and tried ending each others careers. Now yes Austin in my opinion was the catalyst for the feud but its not like Bret backed down. This feud had the feel of both men absolutely hating what the other stood for and were trying to rid the WWF of it. Also in my opinion, outside of Austin vs McMahon this is the most important feud in the WWF/E over the past 20 years.

 

[The Big Gunnzbowski]

HBK on the other hand is sports entertainment he can leave it all in the ring and do what bRet could never make you suspend disbelief. When did Bret ever have a fued like HBK's with HHH, or with Jericho or with JBL were there was so much emotion it almost felt real, the truth is he only ever had that with Owen and HBK.

You're forgetting his feud with Stone Cold Steve Austin... His Feud with Michaels ENDED with the screwjob. I don't see how you also overlooked the Hart Foundation of the early-mid nineties. Bret, Owen, Pillman, etc... You're looking at TODAY, completely overlooking the past. If you wanna talk about feuds, look at the Hart Foundation vs DX. Back when the stable scene was busting at the seams with greatness. Hart paved the way for alot of todays superstars in so many ways, you can't really count them. I don't know how old you are, but you need to find some videos from the 90's and watch Hart in action back then... His ability will speak for itself. Which leads me to my next point...

The really sad thing in all of these "Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart" threads, is that people truly have forgotten what an athletic, technical, awesome wrestler Bret Hart was. Alot of people who are fans today, never got the opportunity to watch Bret Hart wrestle like alot of us did. Bret Hart truly was a great wrestler. He was a better technical wrestler than Michaels by a VERY wide margin. When he was a heel, he got Vickie Guerrero heat... Everything he did, he did so well, in that you could see and feel the raw emotion he put into his performances. Even if he couldn't handle the mic like some guys today, he still was able to pour his emotions into his promos. You believed him. He could carry a match better than almost anybody of his time. The tag "The best there is, The best there was, and The Best there ever will be" was not a throwaway tagline. It was true and still holds true to this day. Alot of people also mistakenly credit Michaels as being the "innovator" of the Ladder Match. Contrary to popular belief, it was Bret Hart that brought the idea of the match to the WWF. Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels were in the very first WWF ladder match. It wasn't until 2 years later that the first televised WWF ladder match was held with Razor Ramon facing Shawn Michaels for the IC title.
Bret Hart did have the bigger legacy at one point in time, but considering the fact that Shawn Michaels has been around years longer, outlasting Hart in the business, I have no doubt that Michaels will leave behind the bigger legacy. However, I challenge you to look at todays' talent, and show me someone that doesn't have great potential that came out of "Stu Hart's Dungeon". The Hart Family will have a much bigger legacy left behind in the wrestling industry long after Shawn Michaels is gone. So, depending on what you think defines a legacy, it will be an ongoing argument that will continue until the dust finally settles...but let's save that for another thread...

 

[Ryanhitman316]

i think its Shawn Michaels. i mean hes a guy you can throw in any type of match especially an upstart match concept and he has proven that if hes involved in it the bar will be set high! to me the fact that hes great in any match setting tips the scale in his favor to me Brett Hart was always just the same ol thing over and over! even though he was technical to the tee he also was very boring and to me hbk was the definition of excitement! his clothes his matches hiss assholish attitude (to me that made him better)
i mean growing up as a kid there was nothing better than watching the showstopper. they are without a doubt the happiest times of my life. i can literally remember watching every pay per view for fifteen years! and for 10.5 of those years he was the sole reason i watched . Brett Hart never had tyhat type of impact on me

Are u serious? Bret Hart is so popular today and he doesn't even wrestle anymore. He has so many fans including myself. About Bret Hart being boring and he does the same thing over and over check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WilVYilItb0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhd9gLRGzdc

 

[andy zones]

I will never understand the respect that Hart gets. His brother was a better and more compelling performer. This is sports entertainment boys and girls and while Bret was a great technical wrestler, his promos were boring, and when they tried to change his character to reflect the times he came off as if he were lost out there.

HBK on the other hand is sports entertainment he can leave it all in the ring and do what bRet could never make you suspend disbelief. When did Bret ever have a fued like HBK's with HHH, or with Jericho or with JBL were there was so much emotion it almost felt real, the truth is he only ever had that with Owen and HBK. That is why his legacey is greater because he left u with more then just flawless matches, he left us with flawless angles, promos, and plot twist. To blame the short sightness of the fans or the office is pure ignorance to the simple fact that the WWE is a sports entertainment company and for teh better part of 20 years HBK has been one of teh afces of that sports entertainment. In reality Hart was something out of teh 40's or 60's when wrestling was rasslin

This topic has been discussed previously on this forum. link
forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=25991

For those fans thinking that HBK was a better wrestler than Bret, I think these guys are either new to wrestling or dont use any type of brains while watching wrestling. Bret Hart was a better and bigger performer than HBK till 1997. There is no secret to that. Bret was a bigger draw than HBK. Bret Won the title way back in 1992 while HBK won the title in early 1996 that clearly shows who was running the shows as main eventer till 1996.Not to mention when hbk won his first title hart had already won 3. HBK never drew better than hart as a matter of fact he is the least drawing champion after sid in wwe history. Till 1997 Bret had more classic matches than hbk.Just put a comparison.
When People say Bret was boring that clearly shows that they seriously lack knowledge about in ring wrestling and mentality. Sure wwe stands for entertainment but it also stands for wrestling ....DOnt forget that.
When People say that after every thing is said and done shawn probably ends with bigger legacy than bret. well it really doesnt mean that he will. It will depend upoun the tastes of people. Dont forget that wrestling is not only about USA , fans from all around the world watch wrestling, If this is the case then Bret will always be ahead of shawn in terms of legacy because bret s fan base is by far bigger than hbk internationally. This is evident from his book sale.Also Dont forget It is vince who called bret the greatest storyteller and biggest Drawing international wrestler ever. If Bret is not wrestling today it doesnt make HBK a better wrestler than bret. It s all about quality not longevity.
I also think shawn s days as a premium wrestler were over atleast 3 years back and he is just dragging and imposing himself on us like flair did. Just Watch HBK Latest Encounter with Kozlov closely and carefully you will get enough evidence of it.He is and will always be a great wrestler but he is not and never be in bret hart league. But i have nothing against HBK fans as they have the right to their opinion just like me.

 

[jericho3150]

Bret was a bigger draw than HBK.

Yep very true... and Backstreet boys sold more albums than Nirvana...Pearl Jam... Iggy Pop... The Ramones... combined.

Till 1997 Bret had more classic matches than hbk.Just put a comparison.

Ok Ill put a comparison... now from 1991 on.. which is when Bret was when Bret was one his way in his singles career.. Shawn was still in the Rockers but it seems like a fairly good time to start..

Bret was involved in the PWI Match of the Year in 92...96...97.
Shawn was involved 93...94....95...96... thats just until his injury... of course he also has 04..05...06..07...08.

Wrestling Observer Star Ratings (and Meltzer is a big fan of Brets)

****
3/17/91 Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Perfect ****
4/?/91 Shawn Michaels vs. Kato ****
1/24/93 Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty ****
4/2/95 Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel ****
2/18/96 Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart ****
8/18/96 Shawn Michaels vs. Vader ****
6/9/97 Shawn Michaels vs. Steve Austin ****
1/22/07 Shawn Michaels vs. Edge (Street Fight) ****
4/1/07 John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels ****
5/18/08 Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho ****

8/26/91 Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect ****
8/30/93 Bret Hart vs. Jerry Lawler ****
7/24/95 Bret Hart vs. Hakushi ****
9/24/95 Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte ****

****1/4
6/23/96 Shawn Michaels vs. Davey Boy Smith ****1/4
3/31/96 Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart (Iron Man) ****1/4
8/25/02 Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H (Street Fight) ****1/4
11/17/02 Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Booker T (Elimination Chamber) ****1/4
3/30/03 Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho ****1/4
12/29/03 Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels ****1/4
2/16/04 Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels ****1/4
5/3/04 Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit ****1/4
4/23/2007 John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels ****1/4
9/7/08 Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels (Unsanctioned) ****1/4


8/29/92 Davey Boy Smith vs. Bret Hart ****1/4
6/13/93 Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect ****1/4
1/22/95 Diesel vs. Bret Hart ****1/4
3/31/96 Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart (Iron Man) ****1/4

****1/2
11/25/92 Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels ****1/2
7/23/95 Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Jarrett ****1/2
4/28/96 Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel (No Holds Barred) ****1/2
4/18/04 Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H ****1/2
5/2/05 Shelton Benjamin vs. Shawn Michaels ****1/2
6/26/05 Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle ****1/2
10/5/08 Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho (Ladder) ****1/2

11/25/92 Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels ****1/2
11/17/96 Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin ****1/2

****3/4
7/19/93 Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty ****3/4
9/22/96 Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind ****3/4
8/27/95 Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (Ladder) ****3/4
3/14/04 Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels ****3/4
4/3/05 Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle ****3/4

3/20/94 Owen Hart vs. Bret Hart ****3/4
12/17/95 Bret Hart vs. Davey Boy Smith ****3/4

*****
3/20/94 Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (Ladder) *****
10/5/97 Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker (Hell in the Cell) *****

8/29/94 Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (Cage) *****
3/23/97 Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (Submission) *****

Also Dont forget It is vince who called bret the greatest storyteller and biggest Drawing international wrestler ever. If Bret is not wrestling today it doesnt make HBK a better wrestler than bret. It s all about quality not longevity.

Your right about the fact that Vince has called Bret the Greatest in Ring "storyteller of all time" and I truely think that the 2 legacys will be... and I even seeing this being setup right now is

Bret Hart great worker greatest in Ring Storyteller WWE all time...
Shawn Michaels greatest in ring Performer WWE all time...

Whether you disagree or not is not the point... I truly believe in 10..20 years this will be how these 2 are looked back on..

 

[andy zones]

Yep very true... and Backstreet boys sold more albums than Nirvana...Pearl Jam... Iggy Pop... The Ramones... combined.

If you think that shawn is a better wrestler than bret then you are right about the statement you made above.



Ok Ill put a comparison... now from 1991 on.. which is when Bret was when Bret was one his way in his singles career.. Shawn was still in the Rockers but it seems like a fairly good time to start..

Bret was involved in the PWI Match of the Year in 92...96...97.
Shawn was involved 93...94....95...96... thats just until his injury... of course he also has 04..05...06..07...08.

Wrestling Observer Star Ratings (and Meltzer is a big fan of Brets)

****
3/17/91 Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Perfect ****
4/?/91 Shawn Michaels vs. Kato ****
1/24/93 Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty ****
4/2/95 Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel ****
2/18/96 Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart ****
8/18/96 Shawn Michaels vs. Vader ****
6/9/97 Shawn Michaels vs. Steve Austin ****
1/22/07 Shawn Michaels vs. Edge (Street Fight) ****
4/1/07 John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels ****
5/18/08 Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho ****

8/26/91 Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect ****
8/30/93 Bret Hart vs. Jerry Lawler ****
7/24/95 Bret Hart vs. Hakushi ****
9/24/95 Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte ****

****1/4
6/23/96 Shawn Michaels vs. Davey Boy Smith ****1/4
3/31/96 Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart (Iron Man) ****1/4
8/25/02 Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H (Street Fight) ****1/4
11/17/02 Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Booker T (Elimination Chamber) ****1/4
3/30/03 Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho ****1/4
12/29/03 Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels ****1/4
2/16/04 Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels ****1/4
5/3/04 Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit ****1/4
4/23/2007 John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels ****1/4
9/7/08 Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels (Unsanctioned) ****1/4


8/29/92 Davey Boy Smith vs. Bret Hart ****1/4
6/13/93 Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect ****1/4
1/22/95 Diesel vs. Bret Hart ****1/4
3/31/96 Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart (Iron Man) ****1/4

****1/2
11/25/92 Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels ****1/2
7/23/95 Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Jarrett ****1/2
4/28/96 Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel (No Holds Barred) ****1/2
4/18/04 Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H ****1/2
5/2/05 Shelton Benjamin vs. Shawn Michaels ****1/2
6/26/05 Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle ****1/2
10/5/08 Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho (Ladder) ****1/2

11/25/92 Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels ****1/2
11/17/96 Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin ****1/2

****3/4
7/19/93 Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty ****3/4
9/22/96 Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind ****3/4
8/27/95 Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (Ladder) ****3/4
3/14/04 Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels ****3/4
4/3/05 Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle ****3/4

3/20/94 Owen Hart vs. Bret Hart ****3/4
12/17/95 Bret Hart vs. Davey Boy Smith ****3/4

*****
3/20/94 Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (Ladder) *****
10/5/97 Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker (Hell in the Cell) *****

8/29/94 Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (Cage) *****
3/23/97 Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (Submission) *****




Your right about the fact that Vince has called Bret the Greatest in Ring "storyteller of all time" and I truely think that the 2 legacys will be... and I even seeing this being setup right now is

Bret Hart great worker greatest in Ring Storyteller WWE all time...
Shawn Michaels greatest in ring Performer WWE all time...

Whether you disagree or not is not the point... I truly believe in 10..20 years this will be how these 2 are looked back on..

It seems like you are interested in putting comparisons. Have a look on the carriers of both these wrestlers.

Bret Hart
Championships and accomplishments
Professional Wrestling Hall of Fame and Museum
Class of 2008
Pro Wrestling Illustrated
PWI Comeback of the Year (1997)[108]
PWI Editor's Award (2003)[109]
PWI Feud of the Year (1993)[110] vs. Jerry Lawler
PWI Feud of the Year (1994)[110] vs. Owen Hart
PWI Match of the Year (1992) vs. Davey Boy Smith at SummerSlam
PWI Match of the Year (1996) vs. Shawn Michaels in an Iron Man match at WrestleMania XII
PWI Match of the Year (1997) vs. Steve Austin in a Submission match at WrestleMania 13
PWI Most Hated Wrestler of the Year (1997)[111]
PWI Most Inspirational Wrestler of the Year (1994)[112]
PWI ranked him #1 of the 500 best singles wrestlers of the year in the PWI 500 in 1993 and 1994[113][114]
Stampede Wrestling
NWA International Tag Team Championship (Calgary version) (5 times)[115] - with Keith Hart (4) and Leo Burke (1)
Stampede British Commonwealth Mid-Heavyweight Championship (3 times)[116]
Stampede North American Heavyweight Championship (6 times)[117]
Stampede Wrestling Hall of Fame[118]
World Championship Wrestling
WCW World Heavyweight Championship (2 times)[119]
WCW United States Heavyweight Championship (4 times)[120]
WCW World Tag Team Championship (1 time)[121] - with Goldberg
World Wrestling Council
WWC Caribbean Tag Team Championship (1 time)[122] - with Smith Hart
World Wrestling Federation / World Wrestling Entertainment
WWF Championship (5 times)[123]
WWF Intercontinental Championship (2 times)[124]
WWF Tag Team Championship (2 times)[14] - with Jim Neidhart
King of the Ring (1991, 1993)
Royal Rumble co-winner (1994)[125] – with Lex Luger
Second Triple Crown Champion[125]
Slammy Award for "Put a Fork in Him, He's Done" (Best Finisher) (1996) The Sharpshooter
Slammy Award for Best Music Video (1996)
Slammy Award for Which WWF champion, past or present, in attendance, is Hall of Fame bound? (1996)
WWE Hall of Fame (Class of 2006)
Wrestling Observer Newsletter awards
5 Star Match (1994) vs. Owen Hart in a cage match at SummerSlam
5 Star Match (1997) vs. Steve Austin in a Submission match at WrestleMania 13
Best Pro Wrestling Book (2007) Hitman
Best Pro Wrestling DVD (2006) Bret "Hit Man" Hart: The Best There Is, The Best There Was, The Best There Ever Will Be
Feud of the Year (1993) vs. Jerry Lawler
Wrestling Observer Newsletter Hall of Fame (Class of 1996)
Feud of the Year (1997) with Owen Hart, Jim Neidhart, British Bulldog, and Brian Pillman vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin

Vs Michaels Shawn Hickenbottom

Championships and accomplishments
American Wrestling Association
AWA World Tag Team Championship (2 times)[155] – with Marty Jannetty
Central States Wrestling
NWA Central States Tag Team Championship (1 time)[8] – with Marty Jannetty
Continental Wrestling Association
AWA Southern Tag Team Championship (2 times)[1][8] – with Marty Jannetty
Pro Wrestling Illustrated
PWI Feud of the Year (2008) vs. Chris Jericho
PWI Match of the Year (1993)[156] vs. Marty Jannetty on Monday Night Raw on May 17
PWI Match of the Year (1994)[157] vs. Razor Ramon in a ladder match at WrestleMania X on March 20
PWI Match of the Year (1995)[6] vs. Diesel at WrestleMania XI on April 2
PWI Match of the Year (1996)[6] vs. Bret Hart in an Iron Man match at WrestleMania XII on March 31
PWI Match of the Year (2004)[156] vs. Chris Benoit and Triple H at WrestleMania XX on March 14
PWI Match of the Year (2005)[156] vs. Kurt Angle at WrestleMania 21 on April 3
PWI Match of the Year (2006)[156] vs. Vince McMahon at WrestleMania 22 on April 2
PWI Match of the Year (2007)[156] vs. John Cena on Raw on April 23
PWI Match of the Year (2008)[156] vs. Ric Flair at WrestleMania XXIV on March 30
PWI Most Popular Wrestler of the Year (1995, 1996)[157]
PWI ranked him # 1 of the 500 best singles wrestlers of the year in the PWI 500 in 1996.[158]
Texas All-Star Wrestling
TASW Texas Tag Team Championship (2 times)[8] – with Paul Diamond
Texas Wrestling Alliance
TWA Heavyweight Championship (1 time)[1][8]
World Wrestling Federation / World Wrestling Entertainment
WWF Championship (3 times)[155]
WWF European Championship (1 time)[155]
WWF Intercontinental Championship (3 times)[155]
WWF/E World Tag Team Championship (4 times)[155] – with Diesel (2), Steve Austin (1), and John Cena (1)
World Heavyweight Championship (1 time)[155]
Royal Rumble (1995, 1996)[155]
First Grand Slam Championship
Slammy Award for Best Slammin' Jammin' Entrance (1996)
Slammy Award for Best Threads (1996)
Slammy Award for Squared Circle Shocker (1996) Won for collapsing; Owen Hart accepts the award for making Michaels collapse
Slammy Award for Master of Mat Mechanics (1996)
Slammy Award for US West Match of the Year (1996) vs. Razor Ramon in a ladder match at SummerSlam
Slammy Award for Leader of the New Generation (1996)
Slammy Award for Best Finisher (1997)
Slammy Award for US West Match of the Year (1997) vs. Bret Hart in an Iron Man match at WrestleMania XII
Slammy Award for Match of the Year (2008) vs. Ric Flair at WrestleMania XXIV
Fourth Triple Crown Championship
^ In October 1990, Shawn Michaels and Marty Jannetty defeated the Hart Foundation for the title. Despite winning the match, the win and reign are not recognized by WWE, as the ring ropes broke and the match was not aired on television. As a result, Michaels is only officially recognized as a 4-time World Tag Team Champion.

Wrestling Observer Newsletter awards
Best Babyface (1996)
Feud of the Year (2004) vs. Triple H and Chris Benoit
Feud of the Year (2008) vs. Chris Jericho
Match of the Year (1994) vs. Razor Ramon in a ladder match at WrestleMania X on March 20
Match of the Year (2008) vs. Chris Jericho in a ladder match at No Mercy on October 5
Most Charismatic (1995, 1996)
Tag Team of the Year (1989) with Marty Jannetty as The Rockers
Worst Feud of the Year (2006) with Triple H vs. Shane and Vince McMahon


If you compare them most of shawn s accomplishments have come in between 2004-2008, while bret hart left wrestling in 2000. Seeing the performances of both these guys till 1997(When Bret Left wwe), Bret Hart Clearly Outperform and Outclass HBK.
Mean Jean Has Rightly said That Bret is easily one of the top 5 greatest Technical wrestlers of all time. When we Talk about technique in wrestling we are clearly talking about the in ring performances.
Its not me but vince who called Bret the Greatest Drawing International wrestler of all time. You should know that Bret s popularity internationally is absouletly awesome. He is a living legend in countries like canada, UK, spain, Germany, India, Africa etc...He was voted as the greatest sportsperson in germay for two years in row(94,95) beating even the great borris becker.
Bret Hart easily beats HBK in drawing ability .Bret helped wwe stabilise its position after hogan left . He remained the main face of wwe during 1993-1995. But when Shawn became champ in 1996, wwe seriously started suffering rating loss to wcw. I dont want to go in more details but for me

Bret hart is the greatest technical cum in ring performer of all time
Shawn Michaels greatest Athlete of all time
Bret beats Shawn in pure wrestling ability
Shawn Beats Bret in Entertainment and Mic skills
Bret Beats shawn in drawing power ( Home+Internationally)
Shawn Beats Bret in Charisma
Bottom Line both are legends and any fan can prefer each over other according to his taste.

 

[jericho3150]

It seems like you are interested in putting comparisons. Have a look on the carriers of both these wrestlers.

No not really.. you asked for the comparison with this quote...

Bret had more classic matches than hbk.Just put a comparison.

And it turned out not to be true so i thought id show u.

Bottom Line both are legends and any fan can prefer each over other according to his taste.

I agree 100%. But the thread wasn't about who you prefer or who was better it was about who will have the biggest legacy which is something totally different. And there is no doubt in my mind at least that when all is said and done Shawn will have a bigger legacy than Bret.

 

[BRandonkin]

I think it is Shawn michaels with the biggest legacy. Mostly because Bret Hart matches were always touted as good, but not great. He was consistent. HBK changed wrestling as a tag team, with match specials, and so much more. The WWE looks more like HBK than BRet Hart. HBK was the turn in wrestling. He was the leader of the new school. He was PG dancing like a Stripper and posing for play girl. Your Edges, Y2J, Hardys all have this HBK rock star type feel. Bret is the Shelton and Benoit, Good but not quite connceted with this time. Even Bret knows that the WWE was changing at the time towards the HBK.

No one looks back and talks about how great Bret was in his matches, it goes to Austin. Austin became the star, not bret. Outside of the Ausin and hart match, you really don't talk about Harts matches to much. HBK you do.

 

[andy zones]

I think it is Shawn michaels with the biggest legacy. Mostly because Bret Hart matches were always touted as good, but not great.
Are you coming from planet jupiter.Here is the list of some of the greatest matches in the history of wrestling.

Greatest Hart Matches
1. VS Austin(WM13)
2. VS Austin (SS96)
3. VS HBK (WM12)
4. VS HBK (SS92)
5. VS Owen (WM 10)
6. VS Owen ( SS95)
7. VS British Bullodog(SS92)
8. VS British Bulldog (INH 95)
9. VS Piper (WM8)
10. VS MR Perfect (SS91)
11. VS MR Perfect (KOR 93)
12. VS Team Austin ( Canadian Stampede)
13. VS Undertaker (SS 97)
14. VS Undertaker (ONO 97)
15. VS Demolition (1990)
16. VS Dynamite kid (1979)
17. VS Chris Benoit (Mayhem 99)
18. VS Chris Benoit (Owen Tribute Match)
19. VS Hakushi (INH 1)
20. VS Jerry Lawler ( Kiss my foot Match)
21. VS Diesel (SS95)
22. VS Flair (Saskatoon 92)
23. VS Bam Bam (KOR93)
24. VS Diesel (KOR95)
25. VS Sting (WCW)

He was consistent. HBK changed wrestling as a tag team, with match specials, and so much more. The WWE looks more like HBK than BRet Hart. HBK was the turn in wrestling. He was the leader of the new school. He was PG dancing like a Stripper and posing for play girl. Your Edges, Y2J, Hardys all have this HBK rock star type feel. Bret is the Shelton and Benoit, Good but not quite connceted with this time. Even Bret knows that the WWE was changing at the time towards the HBK.

No one was more consistent than bret. Hart foundation is considered better tag team than The Rockers. If posing for playgirl made hbk better than bret then congratulations to you and your hero.

No one looks back and talks about how great Bret was in his matches, it goes to Austin. Austin became the star, not bret. Outside of the Ausin and hart match, you really don't talk about Harts matches to much. HBK you do.

It is your assumption just go and check other forums bret is still more talked and respected person than hbk. I dont need to go into hbk s earlier life to prove what kind of individual he was and believe me he was not saint. As far as wrestling is concerned Bret could outwrestle HBK anytime.

 

[titans]

This thread should be reserved for people who actually watched 'both' performers during their prime....I'm almost positive several of the HBK marks posting comments have never watched Hitman perform or (if they did) caught him at the end of his career when he was no longer the #1 guy....I hate to burst any of these young HBK marks bubble, but for those who are a certain age (25 and above) Bret is likely to win this in a landslide....The legends tournament results between the two (48-24 in favor of Bret) says alot....Bret wrestled 24 years (longer than HBK has) and was the WWE's top moneymaker for four consecutive years....Bret was by far the stronger international draw of the two and that's evident by the way Hitman's DVD and autobiography have sold....Michaels two sets have sold nowhere near the amount of copies worldwide Hart's has....I firmly believe both wrestlers were equal in terms of in-ring performance....Both wrestled very effective, yet very different styles...The difference is who had the bigger influence on a global scale...Most knowledgeable wrestling fans know Hart takes this hands down

 

[titans]

andyzone, you are correct my friend.

it's also amazing that fans in numbers still mark for bret despite him being almost nine years retired....the current generation of wrestling fans will take michaels because (unfortunately) hitman was forced into retirement.....again, this thread is good only for those who watched both during their prime.

 

[ZEUS]

Mostly because Bret Hart matches were always touted as good, but not great. He was consistent. HBK changed wrestling as a tag team, with match specials, and so much more. The WWE looks more like HBK than BRet Hart. HBK was the turn in wrestling. He was the leader of the new school. He was PG dancing like a Stripper and posing for play girl. Your Edges, Y2J, Hardys all have this HBK rock star type feel. Bret is the Shelton and Benoit, Good but not quite connceted with this time. Even Bret knows that the WWE was changing at the time towards the HBK.

No one looks back and talks about how great Bret was in his matches, it goes to Austin. Austin became the star, not bret. Outside of the Ausin and hart match, you really don't talk about Harts matches to much. HBK you do.

Wrong on so many levels. Bret Hart matches were almost always the best match of the card, and that would include cards where HBK wrestled. There is a reason it took HBK so long to actually win a world title, Bret was having better matches.

Tag Team Wrestling- Bret also changed Tag Team Wrestling. The Hart Foundation was one of the first WWE teams to have a double team finishing move, and the revolutionized the "big guy/little guy" type of team.

Match Specials- Who invented ladder matches? Not HBK, Bret Hart brought them to WWE from Stampede wrestling, where he had many with the likes of Dynamite Kid. Most were superior to HBK's there too. Bret was a better cage match wrestler (HIAC doesn't count, it didn't exist until after Bret left WWE).

Bret Hart was actually the turn in wrestling- Who was the first wrestler to swear on TV? Bret Hart. Who was the first wrestler to punch out the boss? Bret Hart (on tv and off). HBK's DX stuff got over wo wildly partly because of the reaction to it that Bret portrayed.

Matches- Austin became a star when Bret left WWE. That is a fact. The only people who talk about HBK's matches more or those who never actually watched Bret's. Bret had way better matches with Davey Boy, Mr. Perfect, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall (aside from the WM X ladder match), Stone Cold and Owen than HBK ever did. I suggest you watch more Bret Hart matches before making such ludicrous statements.