Whisper in the wind?

[Mjolnir]

I believe that I am becoming somewhat notorious on the forum for my dislike of Jeff Hardy (if we want fashion designers to be World Heavyweight Champion, my pick would be for Maria)...

Seriously though I have been given negative rep for this anti-Hardy stance, and told numerous times that Jeff is so entertaining and exciting (P.S. if all of the other Hardy-haters want to send me some positive rep, I'll hit you back!).

Let's take a look at one of Jeff's top 2 "entertaining" moves, the Whisper in the Wind. Very played out move by now IMO... if you throw Jeff into the corner and follow him in... BINGO, and it seems to me that he connects 99% of the time.

There are so many ways that an opponent (think of someone sly like Edge or Jericho, or maybe a monster like Knox or Umaga) could "scout" and counter this move, aside from very simply moving out of the way (which I think I have seen a couple of times).

My Example: The way he flips off the top, it make sense that a good opponent could catch him in the ocassional sitout powerbomb, or a nice neckbreaker once in a while.

This would add something to his matches in my opinion... one positive thing I see in Jeff is that he sells his bumps pretty well... the occasional counter could be a really cool alternative to J.R. yelling "Whittthhhhpppper in the Wind" as Jeff hits it once again (I'm sorry but didn't he land this move TWICE in the tag match last night on Superstars against Jericho and Diggler, two seemingly intelligent Superstars?)...

So c'mon... Hardy hating aside... what do you think, shouldn't this move be countered more often? What are some cool ways that you think a Superstar could counter the Whisper in the Wind?

 

[Sparky]

I believe that I am becoming somewhat notorious on the forum for my dislike of Jeff Hardy (if we want fashion designers to be World Heavyweight Champion, my pick would be for Maria)...

Notorious? I doubt it. This is the first post I have seen of yours.

Seriously though I have been given negative rep for this anti-Hardy stance, and told numerous times that Jeff is so entertaining and exciting

They have a right to do that. because they beliave he is entertaining. You have a right to dislike somebody, but constantly shitting on him will do nothing but aggravate his fans.

(P.S. if all of the other Hardy-haters want to send me some positive rep, I'll hit you back!).

Asking for rep?

Let's take a look at one of Jeff's top 2 "entertaining" moves,

No videos?

the Whisper in the Wind. Very played out move by now IMO... if you throw Jeff into the corner and follow him in... BINGO, and it seems to me that he connects 99% of the time.

and Everytime you land on the ropes in a match with rey he will give you the 619, Everyone does a move thats predictable. Normally its an entertaining move they can do without putting anybody at risk.

There are so many ways that an opponent (think of someone sly like Edge or Jericho, or maybe a monster like Knox or Umaga) could "scout" and counter this move, aside from very simply moving out of the way (which I think I have seen a couple of times).

and when the other person has to reverse it they Will. the move looks good and would affect them if it was real. unlike some moves.

This would add something to his matches in my opinion... one positive thing I see in Jeff is that he sells his bumps pretty well... the occasional counter could be a really cool alternative to J.R. yelling "Whittthhhhpppper in the Wind" as Jeff hits it once again (I'm sorry but didn't he land this move TWICE in the tag match last night on Superstars against Jericho and Diggler, two seemingly intelligent Superstars?)...

Wait, What would you prefer him to do, Every time he gets Irished whipped to just slam into the turn buckle? That isn't going to help him one bit is it? the Whisper in the wind looks alot better then just waiting for the person to come running at you and kicking them in the face.

 

[Suneeboy]

No, it shouldn't be "scouted" because its professional wrestling and its scripted. I mean c'mon dude they right the shit out before they come out and do it. Its not real so you can't think in that context.

Its basically two guys dancing with each other to entertain a crowd. The whisper in the wind is one of Jeff Hardy's moves. Why would you want it countered? The fans don't want countered. I don't want it countered, unless its a big match for suspense purposes. It is one of the most over moves in the WWE. You need to practice more on your Hardy hating.

 

[Nate DaMac]

You said two moves and only bashed one. Botch. Get used to it, everyone has predictable moves. It's used as his turn the tides moment. Reversing into a powerbomb or neckbreaker is extremely high risk. You'd have to be extremely perfect. I say the best mode of reversal would be moving out of the way. And don't ask for rep. You'll only get it from people with low rep.

 

[Uncle Sam]

It's an alright move. I mean, it feasibly shouldn't hit his opponent, but wrestling is all about suspension of disbelief. The Rock shouldn't have danced around before an Elbow Drop. Cena shouldn't sit around for five minutes before grazing someone's shoulder with his fist.

Only huge guys should counter it, and in the most obvious way; catching him. So, all the big guys on SmackDown like, uh, Khali or Knox, take note.

 

[Bloodlust]

A good way to counter the Whisper in the wind would be to catch him in the powerbomb postion and fall back, throwing the opponent face first into the mat.

 

[Mjolnir]

The reason for this post was not to hate on Hardy... and point well taken about talking about rep on posts... however, it doesn't seem like most of you are really addressing the question at hand... what are some creative ways to counter the Whisper in the Wind?

I agree that everyone has predictable moves... and that Rey will ATTEMPT a 619 when you land in the ropes, but he gets countered a whole lot more than Hardy in this case... and I would venture to say that Rey is just as over with the crowd (especially the kids and teens), just like Jeff

Also, this is not a real fight, and I have no idea how this would "affect" someone in a real fight... have you ever seen someone in a real fight use an Irish Whip? Ever? The opportunity to use this ridiculous (by real fighting standards) move would never happen. I realize that this is sports entertainment, and that this is a "dance", however it would be nice to see something unpredictable every once in a while. As far as "scouting a move", I am talking about "scouting" in the kayfabe sense of "scouting", you will hear J.R. use this exact term when a Superstar counters someone's move during just about any Smackdown broadcast.

Anyhow, I totally agree that this is his 'turn the tide move', but that still doesn't mean it can't be countered. I would say that the better wrestlers take pretty big risks... like Jericho countering R-Truth's top-rope cross body into the Codebreaker... this couldn't be any worse than Jeff diving off a 16' ladder, or any of his other extreme stunts...

Still interested in ways this move could be countered... and hoping that we see some of them in the future. Even if he hit it 19 out of 20 times, and got countered once in a blue moon, it would make the Whisper in the Wind more exciting IMO. Thanks for the good discussion so far everyone!

 

[TwistofRKO]

Are you new to wrestling, or what's going down here?

Isn't the set up to the 5-knuckle shuffle predictable? Every single time the victim aimlessly throws a punch and gets dropped. It's wrestling, it's how it works. There's no reason to counter either of the moves because they are valuable moves into getting the crowd into the match, huge spots.

Very cluttered posts, half of which is pointless, but I dug out one question that you asked and I'll be kind enough to answer that.

Creative ways to counter it? Not as easy as you think, it's contains some corkscrew action so you aren't setting up for a powerbomb or powerslam, so basically, all I could say is to move out of the way or hit a sidewalk slam.

 

[klunderbunker]

It's kayfabe. Just about every move in wrestling can easily be countered but isn't. Think of something like Booker's axe kick. The guy stands there hunched over for about 10 seconds, waiting to be kicked. Why would you do that, knowing who you're facing? Same with Mysterio and the 619. Just about every wrestler has something that they'll do that is pointless like that. it's a scripted sport so of course things like this are going to happen. It wouldn't make sense if it was treated like a shoot fight. hardy gets over by taking these big bumps and flips, so why kill his biggest moves?

 

[Nate DaMac]

You know, you probably would have got your point across better had you left out the Hardy bashing. At any rate to your actual question, countering the move is really tricky. The powerbomb wouldn't work. Not because it's dangerous for Hardy, but it's dangerous to the opponent. Think about it, to jump on someone's shoulders for a hurricanrana is dangerous, but add a corkscrew flip to that. Off the top ropes. The flip adds a lot more force and momentum to the fall. To put someones neck at risk likd that? Not smart. The neckbreaker could be done, though it would likely look like shit. I still say just move out of the damn way. You still only bashed one move after promising 2. I demand answers!!!

 

[freaky107]

I understand what you are saying. Its bullshit how he hits the whisper in the wind every time. As other posters have pointed out, most superstars have predictable moves i.e the 619, but that gets countered every now and then. To answer your question though, i would say to go to the rope and shake it before hardy jumps off the turnbukle, making him fall

 

[JenovasWitness]

I'm not a fan of the Whisper in the Wind either. I keep trying to formulate what is going through a wrestler's mind as he whips Hardy into the turnbuckle:

"Ok, I just punched the hell out of Jeff in the corner. Next thing I'm-a gonna do is whip him across the ring and I'm going to follow him in and clothesline the shit out of him. OK, everything is going according to plan, he should hit that turnbuckle at any second now. Hmmm, he is hopping up the ropes. That is very athletic looking. Oh hey, he made it all the way to the top, bravo. I wonder what he is going to do next? Hmmm, he is jumping backwards and flipping through the air...if he lands like that, he could get hurt! Someone needs to break his fall, I'd better..." SPLAT.

Yeah, I always found moves like the Axe Kick, the People's Elbow, the Ballin' Elbow, the Five Knuckle Shuffle (my least favourite of the bunch) and the 619 to be ridiculous. But the premise of these techniques is that the wrestler "incapacitates" their opponent prior to using them. The Rock set up the elbow with the 'Pinebuster. Booker would gut kick the guy, Cena uses that spinny-back-suplex-slam thingy, Rey dropkicks the other dude in the ass or some such nonsense.

Hardy just lopes across the ring and starts trundling up the ropes while his opponent...stands there and fucking WATCHES HIM DO IT.

MOVE for the love of CHRIST, MOVE!

I get that this is wrestling, that it is pre-determined and that there is a certain amount of suspension of disbelief that goes into the whole process. But I just cannot buy that every wrestler that Hardy faces is stupid enough to not watch him come hurtling through the air after a lengthy and blatantly telegraphed set up and just the get the fuck out of the way. My suspension of disbelief ends about there.

 

[tbanger]

the point of this thread would probably come across better if he didn't miss it fairly often, i've seen people block it (or at least dodge it) on several occasions. and altho JW above makes a good point, we have to realise the opponent is running and therefore it is difficult for him to do anything other than rapidly stop. rapidly changing direction and moving out of the way is pretty difficult when you're running, in my opinion

 

[Biggest Triple H Fan Ever]

I find the whisper in the wind very cool and awesome looking. But, like you said, I think it would be cool if they have it reversed sometimes. I could imagine some cool reverses like, a codebreaker, a dropkick, a powerbomb, a submission move. There is many ways the move can be reversed, and it would make the move look more realistic if people reverse it at times.

 

[Spillz3000]

Boom! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0zv8D5RYaE

WCW United States Championship Match
Rhyno(c) Vs. Jeff Hardy

Probably the best counter I can remember. It wasn't the most convincing Whisper In The Wind but non the less Rhyno countered it with The Gore.

 

[shalliin]

Creative way to counter the WitW? How about instead of the opponent stopping while he climbs the rope, he continues, pushes off the second rope, and using both of their momentum, flips over backwards, his shoulders in jeff's stomach, and then they fall back, like a moonsault move that Jimmy Yang Wang does to a standing opponent, but with jeff in midair.

Or as someone said, catch in a powerbomb position and then instead of a standard powerbomb, a little turn and bounce his back off the top rope then throw back over the head in an alley oop move.

or another possibility, stop earlier and super kick him kind of like HBK did during a match with SHelton Benjamin a year or so ago when Benj tried a springboard off the top rope into a super kick.

Another way, a slight turn, and you have him in a choke/side arm slam ala rock bottom.

SOme of the flashier guys could do a drop kick or leaping heel kick of some kind.

Now this all said, just because there are ways to counter it, doesn't mean it should always hit, and honestly, it doesn't hit all the time.

A variety on Jeff's part would be instead of a WitW, he could hit a corkscrew headscissor/hurricarana and throw the opponent into the turnbuckle or through the rope, or event caught on the ropes in the set up position for the 619/ running seat choke.

 

[Hacksaw Highway]

A variety on Jeff's part would be instead of a WitW, he could hit a corkscrew headscissor/hurricarana and throw the opponent into the turnbuckle or through the rope, or event caught on the ropes in the set up position for the 619/ running seat choke.

That sunds pretty damn dangerous/easy to botch. I'm sure some people could pull it off, possibly including Jeff, but at the end of the day a 200+ pound man crashing down onto your neck in a corckscrew motion from 5 feet above the ring sounds like a recipe for disaster, especially when you consider how many wrestlers have necks that are eother surgically repaired, injured, nagging/sore, or formerly injured, or any combination of the 4.

 

[shalliin]

That sunds pretty damn dangerous/easy to botch. I'm sure some people could pull it off, possibly including Jeff, but at the end of the day a 200+ pound man crashing down onto your neck in a corckscrew motion from 5 feet above the ring sounds like a recipe for disaster, especially when you consider how many wrestlers have necks that are eother surgically repaired, injured, nagging/sore, or formerly injured, or any combination of the 4.

Which is why you wont see this or some of the other types of possible counters for not only the Whisper in the Wind, but also for a lot of moves.
The most easily performed of physically possible counters might also be the most dangerous. Like Shawn's super kick to Shelton, lesser athletes with a little slower timing or too quick on the trigger could have landed Shawn's foot in Shelton's throat. Not to mention some of the other moves that are performed.
Hey, thanks for noticing. A lot of people forget that while the matches are scripting, for the most part there is also a lot of freedom during the match depending on the crowd reaction. Only a few wrestlers really like to have every spot of a match planned in advance, and the most famous match of this was of course at Wrestlemanie III Steamboat vs Macho. Over 200+ moves,counter moves and actions planned out ahead of time.