Which Meant More To Wrestling: Austin's Coronation, or Hulk Hogan's Heel Turn

I think Hogan's heel turn meant a little bit more due to the fact that the payoff was quicker. Austin wouldn't really take off until his WM 13 match against Bret Hart and even after that it took him another year to win the title which I thought was the right plan. Hogan turning heel changed the landscape of both companies and you still feel the effects of that today with everybody wanting the Hogan of this era, Cena, to turn heel. Austin's coronation meant a lot but I'll take Hogan's heel turn slightly more.
 
I think Hogan's heel turn meant a little bit more due to the fact that the payoff was quicker. Austin wouldn't really take off until his WM 13 match against Bret Hart and even after that it took him another year to win the title which I thought was the right plan. Hogan turning heel changed the landscape of both companies and you still feel the effects of that today with everybody wanting the Hogan of this era, Cena, to turn heel. Austin's coronation meant a lot but I'll take Hogan's heel turn slightly more.

Man, are we watching the same programming of that time? Yeah, Austin didn't really take off as a face until WM 13, because he was too busy getting the shit boo'ed out of him with his Bret Hart. People don't realize, there was a window between August and January where Steve Austin was regularly getting the most heat on the shows, and eventually, they all caught on to what he was doing. So yeah, if you argue it took him til Wrestlemania 13 to be the most over face, sure, because he was busy being the most over heel in the Federation at the time. Hogan was shocking, andf I'd never argue that, but his turn is ultimately undercut by his own politics. You can't just forget the long term history of each event. Without that promo, I don't believe McMahon would have given him the ball to run with. You just can't ignore that
 
Just some more thought on this excellent topic. Austin's coronation was big for Steve Austin's career. It was big for WWE, in hindsight, because it was the birth of the rattlesnake. It was a cool moment, but by no means as memorable a moment as Hogan turning NWO. Vince would not have given Austin the ball to run with if he had not pulled off such a great speech at the KOTR, probably, unless he pulled that speech off on a Raw or pay per view at any point in the next year or two. But the Hogan heel turn happened at the exact right place at the right time for WCW. In brought instant success and enraged (as well as engaged) WCW's audience. Austin's character over the course of a few years would mean more to wrestling than the NWO angle and Hogan's heel turn. But Hogan's heel turn meant more to wrestling in July 1996, it meant more to smartening the WWE up, it meant more at the time to the Attitude era than Austin's 3:16 speech. In hindsight, Austin's speech meant a lot more than it did at the time. It doesn't mean a whole lot right now though because we're in the PG era. But it did mean a lot because there is still a WWE today (although i'd argue there always would be with Stone Cold or not). Steve Austin meant a lot to WWE but his 3:16 speech didn't instantly change wrestling in June 96. Hogan's legdrop on Savage did though. Hogan's heel turn to the NWO had a lasting impact on wrestling until the PG era and so did Austin's run as the rattlesnake. But i can think of another memorable happening that perhaps meant more to wrestling than either. And that was the Montreal Screwjob.

Now before any of you get all whiny and tell me to give the Montreal Screwjob a rest, hear me out. I really don't understand how this has been left out of the complete thread. Austin's coronation speech was big for his career in 1996 but it was not the biggest thing for business in 1996 or 1997. Vince SCREWING WWE hero Bret Hart in hindsight may have been the single biggest moment in WWE and wrestling history. It angered the wrestling world. Not only the wrestling world but all of Canada. It angered Americans who were not even wrestling fans but who were aware of Bret Hart. Because it was real and not part of staged wrestling, the world took notice. There was no reality tv bullshit or real things happening like that ever on tv at this point. No net and no spoilers. It was completely unexpected and it brought major attention to wrestling. This night changed wrestling as much as the Hogan heel turn because what Vince did was almost as unforseen as a Jesus-like Hogan turning over to the dark side. Loyal Hart fans followed him to WCW, other fans were disgusted and stopped watching WWE, but most tuned in excited out of their minds and glued to their seats waiting for a new hero to emerge to avenge Bret Hart and put Vince McMahon in his place. That hero had been a year and a half in the making and his name was Stone Cold Steve Austin. It was an angle no one could help but love: wrestling fans and bandwagon jumpers alike could relate with a blue collar employee who hates the man and decides he's not gonna take shit from a tyranical corporate boss anymore and beat him up. It was a 90s theme, sticking it to the man. This whole Austin changing wrestling crap began when Vince turned heel not when Austin made a King of the Ring coronation speech poking fun at Jake Roberts religious beliefs. Stone Cold spent months and years after the Monteral Screwjob whoopin McMahon from that timeframe and that is when the tide turned for WWE and wrestling in general (although the NWO and Hogan's heel turn had the single biggest overall 'at the moment' impact in changing the wrestling landscape in the late 90s). Austin vs Vince simply turned the tide of favour back to WWE building upon what Hogan and the NWO started (the whole renegades vs the Man theme). The fans got what they wanted, bandwagon jumpers who tuned in after the Screwjob got what they wanted. The rattle snake after, not before the Montreal Screwjob is what turned the tide most for WWE. Vince's heel turn coupled with Austin's proactive reaction to the turn.
 
Now, this folks is how it's done. Wonderful post, wondeful logic. This is how you do it. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to try and tear it apart.

Just some more thought on this excellent topic. Austin's coronation was big for Steve Austin's career. It was big for WWE, in hindsight, because it was the birth of the rattlesnake. It was a cool moment, but by no means as memorable a moment as Hogan turning NWO.

There are people that can quote that entire speech from memory, man. I mean, form beginning to end. I know, I've seen it. People endlessly refer to this moment as "Steve Austin's breakout".Yes, Hogan was memorable, and today there still are comparisons (read: The LeBron going to Miami thing. Now that's culture crossover.) But at the time, everyone still was saying Austin 3:16 Says I just whipped your ass. You remember how many of those pretty black shirts got bought? It's the #1 piece of merchandise in the history of professional wrestling, probably admittedly rivaled by an nWo shirt, or old Hulkamania stuff. Still, people remember that Austin coronation just as much as they do Hogan's betrayal. If they didn't, that shirt wouldn't have caught on the way it did.

Vince would not have given Austin the ball to run with if he had not pulled off such a great speech at the KOTR, probably, unless he pulled that speech off on a Raw or pay per view at any point in the next year or two.

Here we're in agreeance.

But the Hogan heel turn happened at the exact right place at the right time for WCW. In brought instant success and enraged (as well as engaged) WCW's audience.

Again, we agree here to. It was instant shock and credibility for the nWo. It made you want to tune into Nitro. Would never try to dispute that.

Austin's character over the course of a few years would mean more to wrestling than the NWO angle and Hogan's heel turn. But Hogan's heel turn meant more to wrestling in July 1996,

Again, agreeance, that for that one night, it meant more. That said, this thread is about the most important moment to the history of wrestling. You can't throw away the two year build up to Steve, because it was all tied to this one interview, which pretty much introduced us to a new character.

it meant more to smartening the WWE up, it meant more at the time to the Attitude era than Austin's 3:16 speech.

Again, I give more credit to ECW than I do to WCW for that one.

In hindsight, Austin's speech meant a lot more than it did at the time. It doesn't mean a whole lot right now though because we're in the PG era. But it did mean a lot because there is still a WWE today (although i'd argue there always would be with Stone Cold or not).

Well, that's the thing, we do have the gift of hindsight, man, we really do. To not use it would be ignoring the past. I'm intrigued to hear why you believe the WWE would have survived without Stone Cold, though. We all know that as late as 1997, the WWE was in dire financial straits, to the point that they had to give up Bret Hart. Do you believe Vince wanted to give up Bret? Hell no.

Steve Austin meant a lot to WWE but his 3:16 speech didn't instantly change wrestling in June 96. Hogan's legdrop on Savage did though. Hogan's heel turn to the NWO had a lasting impact on wrestling until the PG era and so did Austin's run as the rattlesnake. But i can think of another memorable happening that perhaps meant more to wrestling than either. And that was the Montreal Screwjob.

I won't bother to get into the Montreal Screwjob, but I will let you know I read it. It's a very good defense, and I'd be open to bringing it into the discussion. That said, I don't think Vince would have performed it if he didn't know he had Steve Austin in his back pocket. Just an opinion, but the way I see it. If Vince didn't know Steve could bail him out, we may not have had a Screwjob. And as to your last point regarding the subject, I agree, the immediate value is undeniable. But over the long term, Austin's speech defined the Austin character that would last for years. That just can't be ignored, man.
 
i would have to give a slight edge to the austin speech, for the simple fact that he did it all by himself, what got him over was that he was "the baddest son of a bitch." and he backed it up, the thing with hogan, it was more of partnership with part of the kliq. austin was basically a one man show
 
Hogan, easily. Austin's speech certainly put him on the map, but in terms of revolutionising the business, Austin changed the business, but it was his 1998 storyline that did that. Often too much is read into the events of 1996-97 in the build of Austin, when truth be told, the audience weren't tuning in to see it. That's not to say they didn't care, it just wasn't particularly earth shattering. Hogan turned heel and the nWo instantly dominated WCW, and were instantly the focus of the wrestling world. Hogan was WCW Champion inside a month.

Over on WWF, Austin didn't even make the card for two of the next three PPVs, including Summerslam. Austin's speech may have been the beginning of the beginning for him, but it was two years worth of Bret Hart, broken necks, Royal Rumble wins and Mike Tyson that made him the man he was in 1998, ready to take the company forward. Hogan's heel turn instantly changed the business.
 
There are people that can quote that entire speech from memory, man. I mean, form beginning to end. I know, I've seen it. People endlessly refer to this moment as "Steve Austin's breakout".Yes, Hogan was memorable, and today there still are comparisons (read: The LeBron going to Miami thing. Now that's culture crossover.).

and that why I say hogan because almost 15 years later it is being used as a metaphor for other walks of life
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it also had a more immediate ROI from a business stand point so in the moment it was bigger than Austin which had to build up a little bit slower. it is pretty much if you come home from work and you a really hungry are u just going to put in that hungry man dinner (hogan) or are you going to make a pot roast with mash potatoes and gravy from scratch(austin). we all know that the second choice is better in the long term but when you are hungry as wcw was you going for a quick fix
 

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