When all is said and done - Randy Orton's place in wrestling history

[Slyfox696]

He's a 5 time World champion. He's arguably the greatest heel in the current generation of wrestling. He comes from a wrestling family, and is still making a name for himself. He's only 29 years old, and has been main-eventing for 5 years, and being placed with feuds with every great the WWE has to offer. He is clearly a man the WWE will depend on into the next decade.

When Randy Orton finally hangs up the boots for good, where will he stand in wrestling history? Will wrestling fans look back and consider him the greatest ever? Will he be the record holder of World titles? Will people see him as a "great", but not a "legend"? Will he share the stage with guys like Hulk Hogan and Steve Austin, or just below them with guys like Bret Hart and Ric Flair?

When all is said and done, where will Randy Orton rank in wrestling history?

 

[The Todd]

It's still a little too early to tell as Orton hasn't, for me, had that career defining feud yet. Hogan had Andre, Hart had HBK, Austin had McMahon, Orton so far had one with 'taker when he was still too inexperienced and the current one with HHH that is not getting over as well as the wwe would have hoped. What is needed in my view is a big programme between Cena and Orton. If that happened and invovled a huge WrestleMania match it could turn Orton from bags of potential to the finished real deal.

So far he has had one good title reign, and is in the middle of a second one which could go down well. He needs an iconic reign to be up there with the others.

If his career was cut short and he left in the near future he would hardly be remembered by future generations, there is a lot more he needs to do. He has passed his Father already but I don't think that was ever in doubt.

If he can lead Legacy to great things and have that one huge feud over the title he can rank highly. He won't ever be anywhere near Austin or Hogan and it would take a lot to be with The Rock, Flair and Hart but it is possible.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Great post by Pebble...Orton hasn't yet had that defining feud/moment yet. He's had ALOT of moments where he has been on the cusp of extreme greatness...but he is not yet ready to be discussed amongst the greatest of all-time.

That considered, the guy is still VERY young. He has plenty of time to continue cementing his legacy. I think this feud will likely come from someone who isn't established as a main-eventer yet...as it seems like he has feuded with mostly everyone else.

If he doesn't get that feud, though, I seem him falling among the champions of the mid-nineties in terms of lasting value. The Lugers, the Yokos, Vaders, Diesels, and Sids of the world. I sincerely hope this is not the case, however, as I think that RKO is far more talented than any of those mentioned.

 

[supersrc]

As of right now he would most likely go down just slightly over the millian dollar man or slightly under heel HHH, being one of the best villans in the buisness. However thats if it ended today, he still has so much time potential and possiblities. Most people said it all he needs is that "it" moment much like HHH stephany helsmly era, Hogan slamming andre or HBK winning the ironman match.

I honestly thought it was when he beat benoit for the world titls it was epic emotional and memerable, of course because of what happened wwe will not look back on that so randy does need another even bigger moment. I think a old fashion fued with Edge would hold the potential.

Now when I say old fashion fued I mean much like the Rock Austin fued, epic matches both characters rotateing heel and face rolls.

I think in the end he will end up one step ahead of HHHs Kurt Angles' and Ultimate warriors, the Main eventers but just a step under the HBKs and and Undertakers the Icon/legends.

 

[Razor]

When Randy Orton finally hangs up the boots for good, where will he stand in wrestling history?

A slow mess of a wrestler I'm incredibly bored of after 2 minutes on my TV...but a wrestler who does his job as a heel like none other at the moment.

Will wrestling fans look back and consider him the greatest ever?

Perhaps. But he has a long way to go when it comes to rivaling the badass heels that everyone clamors over. Your "Million Dollar Man" and the like.

Will he be the record holder of World titles?

If they keep playing hot potato with the titles, then sure. Why not. Edge has what, 9? Triple H has some ungodly amount. I mean hell, Orton's only 29. He has plenty of time to rack up 15 more month-long title reigns.

Will people see him as a "great", but not a "legend"? Will he share the stage with guys like Hulk Hogan and Steve Austin, or just below them with guys like Bret Hart and Ric Flair?

As of now, if he keeps his current path of "That was a good feud, but not GREAT" then he'll end up the like Bret Hart or Flair. This past Triple H feud or his earlier one with Cena were the feud where Orton could have really went off. But if I remember correctly Cena was injured, and this past Legacy feud fell incredibly flat. Sad, really. It's not like Orton can't do his job.

 

["Cool Guy" Jensen]

Sure, Randy Orton hasn't had that one defining fued yet. But I think about it as, if Orton doesn't have one defining fued, then he will have all different types of fueds that show off who he is. In my opinion, Randy Orton's first major fued was with Mick Foley, and then with The Undertaker. Those two fueds helped make Randy Orton stronger and showed that Randy Orton really had what he takes to make it far in the WWE. I know it made me take him more seriously during 2004-2005.

Randy Orton was lucky enough to really have great fueds with two great legends, so early in his career. If you ask me, it made Randy Orton's career better from the start and made it a bit easier to move up.

This five-year fued with Triple H is not helping Randy Orton at all. I always felt that their matches were much better in the beginning. Now, their matches are getting boring and a bit stale. I feel that their chemistry in the ring is beginning to deteriorate, which you'd think would be a sign for their fued to end. Not likely.

Randy Orton's place in the WWE can change at certain stages of his career. I'm hoping that he will remain in the WWE for his entire career. That way, if he stays loyal to the company for a long, long time, his place will be a little more concrete. He's only 29 years old and has already been in the WWE for 7 years, so he has a lot of time left in him as long as injuries don't become an issue for him.

 

[rkoshouldvewon]

Orton is definitely the best of his generation so far. But if he were to retire tomorrow, he wouldn't be considered one of the greats. You have to keep in mind his generation (from '02-'09) sucks in general. And I don't necessarily mean talent wise.. but creatively and storyline wise. A huge ingredient in becoming a great is what story lines the wrestler is involved with (Austin and McMahon, HBK and Bret Hart, Taker and Mankind). As people have said in this thread, Orton hasn't had that ONE feud yet. If I had to guess who that competitor would be I'd say Edge. I don't remember them having a program together besides Rated-RKO. Title reigns don't mean that much. HHH has way too many and so did Flair. Edge has 9. But for me Shawn Michaels is better than all of them and he's only been champion 4 times.

 

[yoshi_doce2006]

Randy Orton.

Pluses:

Great athletic ability, great ability to be as heel, smart in the ring, gets over with the crowd.

Minuses:

Given bad material on the Mic, not a gifted technical wrestler, never had a memorable title run, boring overall.

Honestly he needs to improve a great deal to be known as one of the greats in the history of the industry. He is a boring performer and on the mic so I usually change the channel when he comes out because of it. Much of the problem can be solved with better writers, others can be solved by booking the champion as a strong champion which the WWE doesnt do with anyone anymore. Most of the problem can be contributed to writing but he will never be as good technically as Ace which is who he will always be compared.

 

[RKOLEGACYRULZ]

Randy Ortons place will be with legacy when they all win the titles in that stable he ll be keeping the belt past this PPV since advertisements show him Sept11 at a house show as the Heavyweight CHampion I like him better than having HHH (steroid freak user or cena) WWE is going the right direction and he deserves to be heavyweight champion
Of course the 5 year feud with HHH is boring the hell out of me and all the wrestling fans yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwner have him feud with Mark Henry,Edge when he becomes face,Great Khali also fits in there!

 

[Барбоса]

Orton has been somewhat unlucky in his feuds so far. His Legend Killer gimmick was and to an extent still is great but it didn't exactly give him the best oppostion for the most part. Giving the RKO or spitting in the faces of men over twice his age might add shock value but there was never going to be any sustainability. That said it did eventually produce a fine battle with Foley.

The feud with the Undertaker I thought was pretty good but it did come two/three years too soon for Orton. Imagine the same 9 month feud taking place this year with Orton one of the top heels in the business.

His feud with Cena was ended early by injury and led to another confrontation with HHH.

The Legacy vs HHH/McMahons story had potential but there was always one underlying problem. Both HHH and all the McMahons have spent the vast majority of their careers in front of the cameras as heels and pretty damn hateable ones too. Wrestling fans still remember Mr McMahon and the Corporation and the Reign of Doom of the McMahon/Helmsley era. Seeing them get punted in the head was always going to be welcomed more than was intended. If the McMahons had never been on TV before then the whole scenario would have made Orton the most detested heel in history.

As for Orton's in-ring ability, I don't really have a problem with him. The RKO is great, can be hit from almost anywhere just like against Carlito and Evan Bourne. I like his back-breaker and the punt is realistic if done well. I even think that the way he does a headlock has potential even if he does it too much. I think he could crank back on it more and hold the opponent more to the side so that when it might look like it is about to be broken he could slip into the back-breaker. Have the announcers talk it up like he is almost choking the opponent and you have another sinister move. His of Flair-like knees to the forehead and the Garvin stomp (which he should use more) both add to his dark character. In his current role, Orton does not need a vast repetiore of moves as less is more. As long as everything he does is done with a dark deliberateness, his character will continue to be over.

As for his place in history, I do not see Orton as approaching Hogan, Austin or the Rock mainly for the same reasons as HHH won't either. Neither of them is a convincing enough face to be as over as those three. However, as a heel I think that Orton has the potential to rival or even surpass the work that HHH and Flair have done. I see a major feud with Cena in the future and perhaps even with Edge if his supposed face comeback against Jericho goes over well.

 

[lenguy]

theres still to much time in between to really confirm anything about his place in wrestling history.but given what hes accomplished already, within the next decade*if he lasts that long*if this current trend continues. We'll all see a lot more from the legend killer. Hes what, in his 7th year already. has had 5 major world title reigns.held the IC title for an impressive amount of time.and i think held the tag titles once or twice.hes got a good solid 10 years before he starts to slow down. Ortons hot right now.he plays his role just fine.i for one dont find him boring.hhh is boring.ortons role is just suited for him.

i figure like hhh.he'll play the majority of his career as a heel.then maybe 8 or 9 years from now he'll end his career as being the top babyface.as for defining fued.i assure you the wwe will look back at his run with hhh as being*epic*even though we didnt see the same view on it.but yeah theres still plenty of time for him to have that career altering fued

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I'm pretty much of the same opinion of Orton's overall greatness now as I am with Cena's. If Orton retired tomorrow, I wouldn't consider him one of the "all-time greats".

It's easy to forget how young Orton really is. He's only 29 years old but he's accomplished a great deal. Orton, potentially, has many many years ahead of him to further cement his legacy in the industry. Orton has a great overall look I think and is easily the overall best of his generation in my opinion. He's a pretty good overall athlete, has some great mic skills, and is arguably the most over heel of the past few years.

I also agree that Orton hasn't really had that "career defining feud", though he's had some good feuds with the Undertaker, HBK, Foley and even Cena.

I think Orton's biggest problem right now is the feud with Triple H. These two have been at it off and on for the past 5 years and I'm just tired of seeing it. Due in part, I think, to the PG rating, the feud can't ultimately go as far and become as personal as it could be and it's just becoming stale. For the most part, the latest feud seems to be on par with the others he's had with Triple H: Trips comes off like this near unstoppable badass that Orton can't handle one on one, Orton wins a handful of scraps usually due to some sort of intereference, but ultimately is forced to slink away after Trips ultimately proves his dominance.

Orton has the potential to be one of the best when it's all said and done. A fresh feud, as of right now, is definitely one thing that's needed.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Orton, if he sticks with it, could be a legend in this business. He is very athletic, plays a good character, and is naturally gifted. He could be remembered as on of the all time greats of wrestling. But, if he was to quite tomorrow, in about 5 years, it would be Randy who? I don't think that he has done enough yet to even be considered a great or even be considered a person to remember. I think that we have a while to go before we could even start to really debate this point, but as of right now, his future looks bright.

 

[GNR8701]

Orton can get to the level of Austin but it is not going to be easy. HHH is really really dragging Orton down. Cena and Edge had about a 5 year fued but they really made it interesting because Edge would have the upperhand for a long time and then cena had the upperhand for a long time. Lita also played a much better role than stephanie. HHH vs Orton has not been interesting at all because it has been HHH always dominant like everyone else has mentioned.

As far as im concerned - I think it is a long shot to get to Austin level. NEVER HOGAN LEVEL. Hogan was the closest to being bigger than the business of all time to whereas Austin was never bigger than the business and niether will Orton. Orton has a shot because he is in the main event in the prime of his career like Taker, Austin, HBK and The Rock and Bret Hart were. Hogan re-invented pro-wrestling as did Austin. The Undertaker is phenominal, HBK was an Icon, The Rock was great, and Hart was excellent (all puns intended) but none of them re-shaped the WWF the way that the big 2 did (Undertaker kind of did but not as much as Hogan/Austin). Orton will not re-invent the way we look at WWE but he will be one of the greatest of all time if he wrestles till he is 40 and keeps pumping the way he is then he will fall into that class of HBK/Hart/Rock/Taker

Realistically I see him finishing in the group that is directly underneath HBK and Taker and finishing ahead of HHH.

 

[Black Snow]

Orton is a tough one. He's the type of guy that if his career continues on the path that it is now who had some great matches and good feuds but was never an icon of his generation. He's someone who has had a lot of missteps; only half of which are really his fault.

The guy is an amazing heel in both his promos and the way he wrestles. He was born to do that and should continue to do that until the day he dies. The only time another face run would be warranted is if he's around for so long and is so dependable that the fans consider him a legend. People will want to cheer for his as sort of a lifetime achievement award.

Orton should get props because despite being the son and grandson of wrestlers he hasn't really leaned on that. He's already far more successful than those men could have dreamed of being. Bob Orton Jr. isn't nearly the name that Dusty Rhodes or Ted DiBiase Sr. is. That's why Orton is so interesting. He's got pedigree but he's the only true modern era son of a wrestler who has eclipsed his father. He's like The Rock in that regard.

To sum it all up Orton is good and not great. Things like his temper and bad attitude have held him down but he's also had misfortunes like a lack of fun, fresh opponents. He's always getting throw Batista, Cena, HHH, Undertaker, etc. You can only wrestle the same people so many times. Orton is a very important cog in the WWE machine and will continue to remain so for many years to come but he is not irreplacable.

 

[tLight]

WWE has major stock in Orton. Didnt he just resign a 10 year contract? As long as he stays injury free he will continue to be one of the best the pro-wrestling has to offer.

 

[Dave]

I'm not too sire Sly. I mean, Orton has all the skills necessary to make it to the very top of this business. Whether he gets there or not is a question that is very hard to answer right now. I mean, as you say, the guy has been the main guy for the last couple of years and probably the best heel in the business. And I do mean the business, not just WWE. He is very athletic, not injured a lot and is most certainly the an that the WWE will hang thier hat on in the next generation.

The only problem with him is that all the other guys had much more quality to work with. I mean, Hogan was the face of a generation, as was Austin. Arguably, both Austin and Hogan wrestled in the most successful eras to wrestle in. Hogan made the WWE what it is today basically and Austin was the man who lead the Attitude Era, the best era to watch pro-wrestling apparently. Probably the most entertaining anyway. Orton is unlucky because he doesn't have the same things to rely on. Hogan and Austin were wrestling people that were probably some of the greatest and most talked about stars of the time. Andre, Savage, Warrior, Rock, Triple H, Mick Foley, Taker. All of these guys were in their primes and it was interesting to watch.

Randy Orton is the man who lead the WWE in the times to come and it is unfortunate. I say that because he doesn't have the same people to work off of. Triple H and Taker being the main guys that Orton has had fueds with. Both worked well and it goes to show you that when he is put in the ring with people of genuine quality, he does the best work of his career. The only question I have is:

"Would Orton have been as successful as Hogan or Austin if he had wrestled when they did?"

I personally don't think so but I am sure that he will be in the Hall of Fame someday, especially if he continues to play the role for the WWE that he is doing right now.

 

[DaveBalls]

Orton is a great wrestler, he still has a long way to go before he can be mentioned in the same breath as the Bret Harts, Shawn Michaels, Undertakers, Steve Austins...etc. But he has a lot of potential to be one of the best in the business. He may have won 5 World Titles in his short career but, I think it is safe to say that the World Title doesn't mean as much as it did ten years ago. Now days it seems like the Title is being exchanged every other month, between the same main eventers. He is a great heel, and can be a fan favorite at will but I want to see him hold the title as long as Cena or Batista in their big runs.

 

[smalltownfan]

If Orton continues on his current pace and he keeps up (or even increases) his intensity, he could very well be in the top 10 greatest of all time. He will never crack the top 5, I don't think, because Flair, Hogan, Austin, Undertaker, and Hart among others are already there and I don't see anyone ever taking one of them out of the top 5. The top 10, though, is a realistic possibility. I absolutely love the direction Orton is going. He is absolutely vicious and has learned well from Flair and HHH. I do agree with a previous post that mentioned that he has not had that defining moment yet. He hasn't had that moment that will be remembered forever. Once he has that, he's well on his way. Also, it all depends on how he wants to be remembered. Does he want to be rememberd as a great leader of a strong faction (Legacy has a LONG way to go unfortunately) or as someone who did it mostly on his own? His direction on that will determine his place in history.

 

[Canadian Knight]

I agree that he will have a way to goes before he is in the same category as Bret, Undertaker or even HBK. However I think he has already surpassed his father is one thing. Orton is the youngest champion and has had it several times. So I think twenty five years from now we will still hear from him.

 

[Milkyway!]

Randy Orton.

Pluses:

Great athletic ability, great ability to be as heel, smart in the ring, gets over with the crowd.

Minuses:

Given bad material on the Mic, not a gifted technical wrestler,

never had a memorable title run,

boring overall.

Honestly he needs to improve a great deal to be known as one of the greats in the history of the industry.

He is a boring performer and on the mic so I usually change the channel when he comes out because of it.

Much of the problem can be solved with better writers, others can be solved by booking the champion as a strong champion which the WWE doesnt do with anyone anymore. Most of the problem can be contributed to writing but

he will never be as good technically as Ace which is who he will always be compared

.

Not sure if we're watching the same wrestler here.

That him? I hope so.

So, I hope you can pick out the parts in your post I put quote marks, and bolding around without getting too bored. Lets go ahead and start with Part I of why you're completely wrong? Want to? Wait, I won't bore you too much will I? Ahh well, not like you'll reply anyways.

Given? Bad material on the mic? What do you mean, given? The wrestlers get to choose their promos for the most part, according to interviews and the such. They are simply given the outline of the storyline, its up to the wrestler to really come up with the details. Sure, they probably know what they're wanting to say before they go out there, but, they have to creativly come up this themselves for the most part. Its why they're professionals, and indy wrestlers aren't.

Wait. A. Minute. Did you just say, Randy Orton has bad material on the mic? The same heel, that makes me want to beat his everloving face in? You are aware that hes a heel? If you don't like the monotone of his voice, then I'm really sorry. It makes him that much more hateable. Maybe you just don't like the words he says, even though, 90% of the time he always says the correct thing to really one-up the current protagonist hes going up agaisnt.

[youtube]AYKxaTy76_c[/youtube]

So thats a bad promo?

[youtube]3crK73dwhmY[/youtube]

So this, is a bad promo? Just by saying his name the building almost collapsed from a sonic boom.

[youtube]hhNYmlaBFH8[/youtube]

This? is bad? Boring?

Okay, I really hope part I wasn't too boring for you. I tried to make it entertaining, honestly. I'm just about as entertaining as a dried fish, I know

I realize smashmouth wrestling, isn't really popular anymore, but Randy Orton is dang good at smashmouth wrestling. Some of the alltime greats of the business, never got technical in their lives. Randy Orton is very good at his style of wrestling, VERY good. Why should he go the route of Ric Flair, Bret Hart, Shawn Micheals, when he can wrestle a style hes great at, and probably one of the best smashmouth wrestlers I've ever seen. If he gets over using a smashmouth style of wrestling, then theres no need for him to convert over into a submission, technical style of wrestling. Hes an artisan at what he does.

 

[Southwind]

I love all the he's boring so Randy Orton sucks arguments it's how you can tell who knows wrestling and who doesn't. Newsflash Orton is doing his job by making you hate him and he's the best in the business at it.

 

[Black Snow]

Agreed. Some people don't know the difference between being boing and being a heel. If a heel makes you hate him then he's doing his job. If any wrestler makes you completely and utterly apathetic then something is wrong. Most of the people who don't like Orton seem to have reasons for hating him so if they know it or not they're actually validating Orton's performance.

As far as wrestling goes Orton might not be the best in the world but he's never had a truly bad match. He doesn't have a ton of great matches to his name either but to call him terrible in the ring is completely and utterly false.