When all is said and done - John Cena's place in wrestling history

[Slyfox696]

He's a 5 time World champion. His three WWE Championship reigns place him 5th all-time for length of reigns, behind Sammartino, Hogan, Backlund, and Morales. He's main-evented for the biggest promotion in the world for four years, and shows no signs of stopping. He is currently the biggest thing in wrestling, with mainstream crossover appeal only third behind Hulk Hogan and The Rock. He is the present and the future of the WWE.

When John Cena finally hangs up the boots for good, where will he stand in wrestling history? Will wrestling fans look back and consider him the greatest ever? Will he be the record holder of World titles? Will people see him as a "great", but not a "legend"? Will he share the stage with guys like Hulk Hogan and Steve Austin, or just below them with guys like Bret Hart and Ric Flair?

When all is said and done, where will John Cena rank in wrestling history?

 

[klunderbunker]

First of all, Flair is with Hogan and Austin, not Hart.

Second of all, this is as his career stands right now, as it's impossible to tell what his future holds. He could pull a Rock and leave for something else, get hurt, or some other unexpected thing or he could be the big dog for years to come. As for your question, it's the lower of the two for me. He's a lot like HHH in my eyes: great, but he doesn't have that X factor that Hogan and Austin have. I'd put him ahead of HHH because I think HHH's title reigns hurt him in the long run which is a strange concept but in my eyes they do. I think the big things against Cena are that he's never really carried things on his own for very long, and when he did it didn't work that well (his year long reign when everyone kept getting hurt), and that he's never been on top in a boom period. Now that obviously could change, but based on what we've seen thus far, I wouldn't bet on it.

In summation, I put him just above HHH but not in the highest level. THink of Cena as the king of the B-List. He's certainly one of the best ever, but not the best of the best, if that makes sense.

 

[SavageTaker]

I think that John Cena’s place in history will be besides Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold if he decides to stay in wrestling for a longer amount of time than some other guys have.

When he finally retires from wrestling, I will look back at him as one of the greatest ever. He might not be considered the greatest ever, but I think he will definitely be in the top 5. He has already been a very accomplished wrestler thus far and he will only be more accomplished once he hangs up his boots. As far as World Title reigns, I don’t think he is going to be the record holder. Instead, I hope he does have some lengthy title reigns. I would definitely prefer a wrestler who has only held the World Title a few times for long amounts of times and had a memorable reign over a wrestler who has held it 20 times and they were all short and nothing special.

Anyways, I will definitely remember him as one of the greatest ever and rightfully so. He will rank up there with Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold and he will definitely be in the Hall of Fame one day.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

While I think it's still sort of early in Cena's career to determine how he'll ultimately wind up when compared to the all-time greats, I have a feeling that fans are going to be kind of split on this.

Cena's a multiple time world champion, the only world champ in the WWE to have a reign last a full year or more in about twenty years. He's currently the real public face of the WWE, the current golden boy and has some degree of mainstream appeal. These facts in and of themselves will probably guarantee him a spot in the WWE Hall of Fame someday, barring a major fall out with Vince McMahon.

A lot of fans, however, aren't really all that crazy about John Cena. For me personally, I still sometimes look back on him back in his rapper days and just immediately think Marky Mark Wahlberg of Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch back in the early 90s. Both guys had muscular physiques, wore similar clothing, both used the prominent Massachusetts accents and so on and so forth.

Ultimately, however, I think a lot of fans feel that John Cena has been shoved down their throats by the WWE over the past several years. Cena is very popular among young fans especially, he's pretty saft overall for the kids, but some older ones feel that he doesn't have much of an edge to him. The WWE has touted the guy as the public face of the company, given him lengthy title reigns, tried to make him into a movie star after giving the music scene a shot. I think he's a little overexposed.

I think the guy is fairly decent in the ring overall, maybe somewhat limited, but the guy usually has some pretty solid matches.

If Cena were to retire today, I don't think he'd rank among the "all-time greats". I think he'd be thought of overall as great, but I don't think I could call the guy legendary.

 

[X]

I think that John Cena’s place in history will be besides Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold if he decides to stay in wrestling for a longer amount of time than some other guys have.

Now that's just absurd Taker. Has John Cena revolutionized the business in any way whatsoever? No. So don't ever put him next to Hogan or Austin, because that's just ridiculous. Not unless Cena does something insane over the next few years and somehow revolutionizes wrestling like those two did and single-handedly brings in a new wrestling boom. Otherwise, keep him away from those two names.

When he finally retires from wrestling, I will look back at him as one of the greatest ever. He might not be considered the greatest ever, but I think he will definitely be in the top 5. He has already been a very accomplished wrestler thus far and he will only be more accomplished once he hangs up his boots. As far as World Title reigns, I don’t think he is going to be the record holder. Instead, I hope he does have some lengthy title reigns. I would definitely prefer a wrestler who has only held the World Title a few times for long amounts of times and had a memorable reign over a wrestler who has held it 20 times and they were all short and nothing special.

Top Five?!?! Seriously? Sly is a big Cena mark and I doubt even he would put Cena that high. I mean jesus Top Five man? Hogan, Austin, Flair, Hart, HBK, boom there's five right there that are better. Care to dispute any of those?

Anyways, I will definitely remember him as one of the greatest ever and rightfully so. He will rank up there with Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold and he will definitely be in the Hall of Fame one day.

He'll be in the HOF I'm sure, because the WWE HOF is a sad and pathetic joke. Nothing against Cena, but any wrestling HOF with Pete Rose, Tony Atlas and Koko B. Ware can't be taken seriously, atleast not by me.

I'd rank Cena on the same level as guys like Booker T, Scott Hall and Kevin Nash. Top contender for quite a few years, but not on the upper echelon level of a Flair or Hogan.

 

[Chill]

It's a tough one, I was watching a bit of Cena's DVD the other day and sometimes it's hard sometimes to not get caught up in the euphoria that is John Cena (and I say that as neither a huge fan or hater). But when it comes down to it, I would say that he will probably be regarded as one of the best ever.

I think there is a chance he will be up there with the Hogans and Austins because, like them, Cena is the face of the WWE....neither Hogan or Austin were the most refined of performers in the ring, rather they were these huge personalities that people related to and that's what Cena is today. It doesn't matter that he isn't the best wrestler because many of his so called 'legendary' predecessors weren't the best wrestlers yet are regarded as true greats....plus he is actually capable of putting on entertaining matches regardless of what haters might say.

In addition, Cena has also moved beyond the realm of wrestling and has enjoyed reasonable success in other entertainment fields and he is arguably WWE's top asset today....in the future, I think Cena will probably be mentioned in the same breath as Hogan and Austin (provided he doesn't catch the acting bug and leave...but even then, his contributions to WWE are probably impactful enough to cement him up there near the best). Time will tell I guess but certainly he will be regarded as one of the biggest names of the 2000s...

 

[SavageTaker]

Now that's just absurd Taker. Has John Cena revolutionized the business in any way whatsoever? No. So don't ever put him next to Hogan or Austin, because that's just ridiculous. Not unless Cena does something insane over the next few years and somehow revolutionizes wrestling like those two did and single-handedly brings in a new wrestling boom. Otherwise, keep him away from those two names.

Ok, I might have gone too far. A little too far. I apologize for that.

I think that he has brought in a lot of new fans like Hogan and Austin did. Maybe not as many fans as them, but he still has brought new fans in. I am not certain he will change wrestling like Hogan did or like Austin, but time will tell. In a couple of years we will more than likely be entering another wrestling boom and then we'll see what Cena will do as the face of this generation of wrestling.

Top Five?!?! Seriously? Sly is a big Cena mark and I doubt even he would put Cena that high. I mean jesus Top Five man? Hogan, Austin, Flair, Hart, HBK, boom there's five right there that are better. Care to dispute any of those?

He’s in my top 5 favorite wrestlers right now. I guess I can see from your perspective on why he wouldn’t be on your list of top 5 wrestlers. Maybe he’ll end up in a top 10 list of all time wrestlers, but like I said time will tell. He has been doing good thus far and he can only get better.

He'll be in the HOF I'm sure, because the WWE HOF is a sad and pathetic joke. Nothing against Cena, but any wrestling HOF with Pete Rose, Tony Atlas and Koko B. Ware can't be taken seriously, atleast not by me.

It’s a shame that the WWE HOF isn’t legit. If it was then it would mean something when he gets inducted (I'm certain it will happen if he stays on good terms with the company). Now if we are talking about a Real and Legit wrestling Hall of Fame, then I think he has a good chance to make it in if his career continues on the track it is on.

I'd rank Cena on the same level as guys like Booker T, Scott Hall and Kevin Nash. Top contender for quite a few years, but not on the upper echelon level of a Flair or Hogan.

I can only agree with you on Kevin Nash. But like I already said twice and now a third time, time will tell as to how far he will go in pro-wrestling.

 

[X]

Ok, I might have gone too far. A little too far. I apologize for that.

Apology accepted.

I think that he has brought in a lot of new fans like Hogan and Austin did.

The amount of fans that Cena has brought in is nowhere near Hogan or Austin. Not even close.

I am not certain he will change wrestling like Hogan did or like Austin, but time will tell. In a couple of years we will more than likely be entering another wrestling boom and then we'll see what Cena will do as the face of this generation of wrestling.

I don't get why people just assume that another wrestling boom period is inevitable. Why is that? Wrestling didn't break into the mainstream until the 80s era, and it didn't become "cool" until the 90s. What new area can wrestling branch into to bring in another boom period? I honestly can't think of anything new there is left for the wrestling business to do, other than somehow incorporate the booming industry of MMA. Every boom period has come about from great change in the wrestling product, what's left for the product to do? Any opinions on this one Sly?

He’s in my top 5 favorite wrestlers right now. I guess I can see from your perspective on why he wouldn’t be on your list of top 5 wrestlers. Maybe he’ll end up in a top 10 list of all time wrestlers, but like I said time will tell. He has been doing good thus far and he can only get better.

Top Five wrestlers right now yeah, but not top five ever. He'd be lucky to crack the top 20.

I can only agree with you on Kevin Nash. But like I already said twice and now a third time, time will tell as to how far he will go in pro-wrestling.

Why only on Kevin Nash? Booker T won just as many world titles as Nash has, I'd say their careers are pretty equal.

 

[GameOver]

Savage, The Rock, The Undertaker, TRIPLE H there's another 4 that are clearly way ahead of Cena in terms of overall impact

Cena will go down as a huge thing for kiddies and women
the guy that despite the fact he couldn't wrestle for shit most of the time
was dreadfull on the mic except early in his career and had 50% of the audience hating his guts for most of his tenure, he was still allowed to shine.

Anyway as we know now world title reigns means nothing so the fact he's had 5 is irrelevant. ffs CM Punk has had 2 and he's not a world champion. So oh no CM Punk is on the same level as Randy Savage in WWE title reigns by that logic.

Edge is well above all of them, does that mean he's in the top 3? No.
He's good but he's not the best thing ever.

 

[The Snake]

Cena - Regardless of whether anyone really likes him, is the modern day Hogan, or the slightly more modern Rock. But I think for those living through this era, we will remember Cena as good, perhaps great, but not quite top grade, staking a claim to be the ever type stuff. The question is, is the modern day equivalent going to be remembered like the originals?

Sure, he's had title reigns, but Cena hasn't really had THAT moment - Hogan had the leg drop, Hart the Screwjob, Austin had an era and the Rock was created something special everytime he got on the microphone.

As much as I think Randy Orton is a prick, I think he might be the one of this generation to leave a greater legacy (pardon the pun), he has time on his side, and it seems that he is the one that has star quality about him, Cena has the hard working ethic without the twinkle or spark that is in the all time greats.

It's very hard for me to actually form an opinion, because since I have watched wrestling "full-time" I don't think I have seen any legends created, HBK and Taker were already there, the only arguable ones are Angle and HHH - However, when all is said and done, I think Cena will be remembered on that pedestal beneath both the great superstars (Hogan, Rock, Austin) and also the great ring scientists (Flair, Hart, Steamboat), he is the superstar for this generation (I'd put down Jericho for the latter category), but I don't think an exemplary one.

 

[SavageTaker]

Apology accepted.

Thank You.

The amount of fans that Cena has brought in is nowhere near Hogan or Austin. Not even close.

You’re very right about this. But remember, both Hogan and Austin didn’t bring a lot of new fans immediately. They started off with their characters and then after some time business picked up and a lot of new fans started watching. Right now Cena is bringing in new fans and after a while a lot of people will start watching.

I don't get why people just assume that another wrestling boom period is inevitable. Why is that? Wrestling didn't break into the mainstream until the 80s era, and it didn't become "cool" until the 90s. What new area can wrestling branch into to bring in another boom period? I honestly can't think of anything new there is left for the wrestling business to do, other than somehow incorporate the booming industry of MMA. Every boom period has come about from great change in the wrestling product, what's left for the product to do? Any opinions on this one Sly?

I assume there will be another wrestling boom because wrestling is a cycle. When it started in main stream it was mostly kids watching, then those kids grew up and wrestling had to change to retain those same kids who were watching. Wrestling is just one big cycle and it will continue being on big cycle. And right now John is the face of this generation of wrestling and if there is another wrestling boom then he will be the top guy like Hogan and Austin were during those wrestling booms.

Top Five wrestlers right now yeah, but not top five ever. He'd be lucky to crack the top 20.

Yes top 5 right now.

Why only on Kevin Nash? Booker T won just as many world titles as Nash has, I'd say their careers are pretty equal.

Because of the time period that Kevin Nash won the title. Booker only won his world titles in WCW because there weren’t that many guys who could make good World Champions and because the title didn’t have any or little prestige. When Nash won the World Title it meant something.

 

[Canadian Knight]

He maybe seen as this generation's Hogan but I think when it is all said and done he will have a high ranking in the history of the business. Sorry, I mean WWE. Remember that he is one of the wrestlers that keeps the fans coming in. They maybe the younger ones but he brings them in. Just like Eddie Guerrero. As for his ranking who can tell after all we are talking about at least ten to twenty years from now

 

[Black Snow]

This is a tough question. I don't think Cena will leave for movies. Let's be honest, he's done two movies and they both bombed. His second one actually made less than the first. They did well on DVD but it seems fairly obvious that only hardcore Cena fans are willing to put down their money to see him in theatres. This may change in the future but right now things don't look too good for Cena in the movie business. He has crossover appeal by nowhere near the level of guys like The Rock and Hulk Hogan.

That means that he'll probably stay in wrestling and would only go to films full-time if he was in Austin's position where he physically couldn't wrestle again as opposed to The Rock's position where he was able to make a choice and picked movies over wrestling.

Another factor that we can't really determine is injuries. Cena doesn't have the best history but not the worst either. He has had two big injuries within a year but he healed from both relatively quickly. Although, he may have returned too quickly thus making him more injury prone in the future. I mean, it was only half a year between the first and second one. This is more of a personal opinion that an objective observation but I believe Cena executes his moves in a fairly sloppy fashion. Quite often I cringe and hope for the man when he executes that silly top rope legdrop.

So, after all of that I'll assess Cena assuming he stays healthy. There are four true legends in wrestling who transcending what it means to be a top star. These guys put the entire industry on their backs. They are Bruno Sammartino, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan and Steve Austin. They are the cream of the crop and at this point it looks like no one will ever reach their level. But never say never.

Right below them are guys who lit the industry on fire. They didn't change it as a whole but they were true icons. I'm talking about The Rock, Randy Savage, Undertaker, Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels.

Below even them are guys who were workhorses and did a lot for the business. They aren't the first wrestlers on everyone's lips but they're big deals. Triple H, Bob Backlund, Dusty Rhodes, Harley Race, Edge, Kurt Angle and Sting. John Cena may eventually be in this category but he isn't right now. If I had to bet some cash I'd say that'd he eventually be seen in this light.

The fourth group that I put Cena in right now is guys who had good runs and are very memorable. Booker T, Ultimate Warrior, Goldberg, Kevin Nash, Batista and Chris Jericho are here. Cena and Jericho will probably move up once their careers are all said and done.

Cena is so hard to judge because if he stays healthy and he finally tries a main event heel run then he can rocket up in the ratings easily. Right now I have to give him an incomplete. He's like Ricky Steamboat that way. He's done a lot but even if he's perfect as a main event face that only means he's achieved 50% of his potential.

 

[HypnotizedHero2010]

the rock could have easily reached the "legend" status if he stayed and i see the same for john cena. of course this all depends on when he retires and how his gimmick plays out for the rest of his career but he has what it takes to be a hogan or a steve austin.

 

[X]

You’re very right about this. But remember, both Hogan and Austin didn’t bring a lot of new fans immediately.

It only took each of them about a year to become acquainted with the audience before they took off. Cena has had 7 years. He's obviously very popular with the audience, but his popularity absolutely pales in comparison to Hogan or Austin.

They started off with their characters and then after some time business picked up and a lot of new fans started watching. Right now Cena is bringing in new fans and after a while a lot of people will start watching.

So you think Cena is going to bring forth a new wrestling boom? The dude has had SEVEN YEARS, if it hasn't already happened, it's not going to. It's not like all of a sudden millions of new fans are going to start watching WWE for John Cena. The guy has had the same exact gimmick since day one, his popularity isn't going to get any higher, and he isn't going to bring forth any new resurgence for wrestling or the WWE. It's not going to happen, and I don't see what gives you the impression that it will.

I assume there will be another wrestling boom because wrestling is a cycle.

I've heard this ten million times, but I don't see it. Wrestling was unpopular for a good 80 or so years before it's first "boom" period, why the hell do people think it's due for another one? Like I said before, the only two boom periods took place because of drastic changes in the business at each of those points. There are no drastic changes for the business to take from here, not that's going to revolutionize the business.

If you're going to take pro wrestling's history into account when talking about these boom periods, it's MUCH more likely that we aren't due for another boom period for a good 15-20 more years. At which point Cena will be an old man.

When it started in main stream it was mostly kids watching, then those kids grew up and wrestling had to change to retain those same kids who were watching. Wrestling is just one big cycle and it will continue being on big cycle.

But you see when the Attitude era happened and the business had to cater to those grown up fans, it was the first time that had ever happened. Wrestling had never been risque before that, so obviously when you break the number one taboo/boundary in the business, it's going to be a big deal. My point though is that you can't break a boundary twice, can you? Another Attitude Era would seem absolutely tame in comparison and wouldn't draw nearly as well as the original did, because it's old news now.

Because of the time period that Kevin Nash won the title. Booker only won his world titles in WCW because there weren’t that many guys who could make good World Champions and because the title didn’t have any or little prestige. When Nash won the World Title it meant something.

Umm...what? You're telling me that Kevin Nash's Title victory over Goldberg, which he only won from interference from Scott Hall with a freakin' TASER meant more than Booker T beating Nash himself in a cage match? They're on the same tier, Nash is overrated as hell to begin with.

 

[Mr. Steve]

the rock could have easily reached the "legend" status if he stayed and i see the same for john cena. of course this all depends on when he retires and how his gimmick plays out for the rest of his career but he has what it takes to be a hogan or a steve austin.

I disagree there. First off, The Man Formerly Known as The Rock had already achieved everything he could. What else was there for him to go for? Dwayne Johnson souldn't have been Legend status, but he would've been damn close to it.

Now onto the subject: Cena's place in history is that of Cena's place in history. In all honesty, he's this generation's Ricky Steamboat. Note that I haven't said he's equal to Steamboat, though. He's the guy that will most likely stay a face his entire career. He might say the whole "I'm just me" speech, but fact of the matter is, he's a face. Besides, Vince wants to milk his run as one until the tit runs dry. Until there's a drop in shirts, Cena's the good guy. That's how it is with the old man. As to how his place in history will be, it all depends if he doesn't do a Dwayne Johnson and sticks to movies full-time. But so far, it's looking as he might go down in history as a damn good worker, all around good guy and "actor". And he has earned himself a damn good niche, and in my opinion, it's rather unfair to compare him to Austin and Hogan.

 

[Doomsday Device]

Ive never been a Cena fan, and much less can I say Im a fan of his work. But if he truly does have the passion for the business and loyalty as much as I hear I have to respect that.

Most likely he'll be seen as one of this generation's best.

He just got married and that makes me wonder how his career will shape up from this point on. He'll have to make time that he doesnt have for his wife, and when ever she gets pregnant she'll need him by her side and Im just saying he'll have to take time off and that might cool off his career somewhat noticeably.

But whatever, he's done it all and if everything were to end tomorrow Im sure he'll just say he had a fantastic run.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Apology accepted.



The amount of fans that Cena has brought in is nowhere near Hogan or Austin. Not even close.

I am always astounded how highly both Hogan and Austin are regarded. I think that they are big because they have more effectively pulled the wool over the eyes of wrestling fans than most. They are two of the biggest names in the industry, but they are both very overrated.

Hulk Hogan is very similar to Cena. Hogan captured the kiddie market like Cena has today. Hogan was all over the place in the mid-eighties (in "Rocky III"), on cartoons, talk shows, everything. But looking back now, as I watch some of his promos and matches from my Wrestlemania Anthology collection, I have noticed something- Hogan's act has aged badly. In the 80's, fans were less cynical, and more willing to suspend disbelief. Hogan's promos were generally a load of crap, and he fought the same type of match over a hundred times. Hogan's popularity is more the genius of Vince McMahon's promotion and Wrestlemania than anything. Cena is doing the exact same thing today Hogan was doing then, but the audience has changed, as society has. Fans aren't into goody-goody, moral babyfaces. They now want flawed heroes instead.If Hogan's onscreen persona reflected his real personal life, you would have your flawed hero right there.Hogan only gets cheered now out of nostalgia.

The biggest evidence that the fans have changed is "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. He gets the fans attention by cussing, flipping the bird, getting drunk and showing disrespect. Austin would have not worked in the 80's, but in the cynical '90's, where fans had already tasted blood through "crash TV" like the old-ECW, fans were more willing to embrace Austin. Maybe because he was the WWE version of Sandman (drank beer, defied authority, etc), so the idea was hardly original. Fans were more cynical and society lacks respect today, so Vince McMahon modelled a character and a storyline to appeal to the masses. Unlike Hogan and Cena, Austin did have a bigger move-set. He was a great wrestler as "Stunning" Steve Austin in WCW. But his neck injuries meant that he could take less bumps. So he was limited in his matches, and his best matches were with people like Bret Hart or the Rock, who could carry him. He stunk when facing the Undertaker or Kane, or anyone else who wasn't a great wrestler themselves.Also, Austin's catch-phrases were pretty repetitive "What?", "That's the bottom line?" "Give me a hell-yeah". Besides, Austin was not a company guy, would play politics, walked out on his fans and the WWE numerous times, and his personal life isn't anything to be proud of (just ask his ex-wife, Debra McMichael).

I believe that Cena isn't liked because he has too much going for him. He is a company guy, unlike Hogan or Austin, he does what he is told. He is no worse a wrestler than Hogan, nor any worse on the mike than Austin, and at least he doesn't repeat the same catch-cries, other than "The Champ Is Here". His personal life is more in order as well, and he attracts the future generations. But this is why fans don't like him. They don't like people who have it all together, and seem to be liked. They would prefer controversial, ambigious figures, who have flaws like their fans. That is why Cena will never be considered as great as the fans. It has nothing to do with the fans, but that Cena is the right man for the wrong time.



Why only on Kevin Nash? Booker T won just as many world titles as Nash has, I'd say their careers are pretty equal.[/QUOTE]


Thank God Cena is not like Nash! Kevin Nash is the most selfish, overrated piece of garbage in wrestling. He spends more time in the medical room than in the ring, and has derailed more wrestler's careers than any other. No good deed goes unrewarded with Nash, who constantly will only extend himself at a price. He is a crap wrestler, injury prone, and only moderately entertaining on the mike. If McMahon and Bischoff weren't in love with height, Nash would have been sent packing long ago. Cena puts over more people than Nash ever did, and I know whose matches I would rather watch.

So, Cena didn't change. the audience did. Fans want something different today. Why should Cena be blamed for the fan's differing tastes. That's their fault, not his.

The amount of fans that Cena has brought in is nowhere near Hogan or Austin. Not even close.


I am always astounded how highly both Hogan and Austin are regarded. I think that they are big because they have more effectively pulled the wool over the eyes of wrestling fans than most. They are two of the biggest names in the industry, but they are both very overrated.

Hulk Hogan is very similar to Cena. Hogan captured the kiddie market like Cena has today. Hogan was all over the place in the mid-eighties (in "Rocky III"), on cartoons, talk shows, everything. But looking back now, as I watch some of his promos and matches from my Wrestlemania Anthology collection, I have noticed something- Hogan's act has aged badly. In the 80's, fans were less cynical, and more willing to suspend disbelief. Hogan's promos were generally a load of crap, and he fought the same type of match over a hundred times. Hogan's popularity is more the genius of Vince McMahon's promotion and Wrestlemania than anything. Cena is doing the exact same thing today Hogan was doing then, but the audience has changed, as society has. Fans aren't into goody-goody, moral babyfaces. They now want flawed heroes instead.If Hogan's onscreen persona reflected his real personal life, you would have your flawed hero right there.Hogan only gets cheered now out of nostalgia.

The biggest evidence that the fans have changed is "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. He gets the fans attention by cussing, flipping the bird, getting drunk and showing disrespect. Austin would have not worked in the 80's, but in the cynical '90's, where fans had already tasted blood through "crash TV" like the old-ECW, fans were more willing to embrace Austin. Maybe because he was the WWE version of Sandman (drank beer, defied authority, etc), so the idea was hardly original. Fans were more cynical and society lacks respect today, so Vince McMahon modelled a character and a storyline to appeal to the masses. Unlike Hogan and Cena, Austin did have a bigger move-set. He was a great wrestler as "Stunning" Steve Austin in WCW. But his neck injuries meant that he could take less bumps. So he was limited in his matches, and his best matches were with people like Bret Hart or the Rock, who could carry him. He stunk when facing the Undertaker or Kane, or anyone else who wasn't a great wrestler themselves.Also, Austin's catch-phrases were pretty repetitive "What?", "That's the bottom line?" "Give me a hell-yeah". Besides, Austin was not a company guy, would play politics, walked out on his fans and the WWE numerous times, and his personal life isn't anything to be proud of (just ask his ex-wife, Debra McMichael).

I believe that Cena isn't liked because he has too much going for him. He is a company guy, unlike Hogan or Austin, he does what he is told. He is no worse a wrestler than Hogan, nor any worse on the mike than Austin, and at least he doesn't repeat the same catch-cries, other than "The Champ Is Here". His personal life is more in order as well, and he attracts the future generations. But this is why fans don't like him. They don't like people who have it all together, and seem to be liked. They would prefer controversial, ambigious figures, who have flaws like their fans. That is why Cena will never be considered as great as the fans. It has nothing to do with the fans, but that Cena is the right man for the wrong time.

 

[supersrc]

First of all, Flair is with Hogan and Austin, not Hart.

Second of all, this is as his career stands right now, as it's impossible to tell what his future holds. He could pull a Rock and leave for something else, get hurt, or some other unexpected thing or he could be the big dog for years to come. As for your question, it's the lower of the two for me. He's a lot like HHH in my eyes: great, but he doesn't have that X factor that Hogan and Austin have. I'd put him ahead of HHH because I think HHH's title reigns hurt him in the long run which is a strange concept but in my eyes they do. I think the big things against Cena are that he's never really carried things on his own for very long, and when he did it didn't work that well (his year long reign when everyone kept getting hurt), and that he's never been on top in a boom period. Now that obviously could change, but based on what we've seen thus far, I wouldn't bet on it.

In summation, I put him just above HHH but not in the highest level. THink of Cena as the king of the B-List. He's certainly one of the best ever, but not the best of the best, if that makes sense.

KB makes perfect sence to me and I think he nailed it on the head.
You have your jobbers (the jamie nobles) your midcarders (Shelton Benjamins) Main eventers (HHH Ultimate Warrior) icon/legends (The Rock HBK Taker) and well Super Legends (Hulk Hogan and Austin)

Cena isnt adored by man woman and child like the Icon/legends and Super Legends, but the kids do love him and that has put him in main event staus.

I would put cena just below HHH not icon/legend, but sadly a main eventer

 

[Black Snow]

I am always astounded how highly both Hogan and Austin are regarded. I think that they are big because they have more effectively pulled the wool over the eyes of wrestling fans than most. They are two of the biggest names in the industry, but they are both very overrated.

Hulk Hogan is very similar to Cena. Hogan captured the kiddie market like Cena has today. Hogan was all over the place in the mid-eighties (in "Rocky III"), on cartoons, talk shows, everything. But looking back now, as I watch some of his promos and matches from my Wrestlemania Anthology collection, I have noticed something- Hogan's act has aged badly. In the 80's, fans were less cynical, and more willing to suspend disbelief. Hogan's promos were generally a load of crap, and he fought the same type of match over a hundred times. Hogan's popularity is more the genius of Vince McMahon's promotion and Wrestlemania than anything. Cena is doing the exact same thing today Hogan was doing then, but the audience has changed, as society has. Fans aren't into goody-goody, moral babyfaces. They now want flawed heroes instead.If Hogan's onscreen persona reflected his real personal life, you would have your flawed hero right there.Hogan only gets cheered now out of nostalgia.

The biggest evidence that the fans have changed is "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. He gets the fans attention by cussing, flipping the bird, getting drunk and showing disrespect. Austin would have not worked in the 80's, but in the cynical '90's, where fans had already tasted blood through "crash TV" like the old-ECW, fans were more willing to embrace Austin. Maybe because he was the WWE version of Sandman (drank beer, defied authority, etc), so the idea was hardly original. Fans were more cynical and society lacks respect today, so Vince McMahon modelled a character and a storyline to appeal to the masses. Unlike Hogan and Cena, Austin did have a bigger move-set. He was a great wrestler as "Stunning" Steve Austin in WCW. But his neck injuries meant that he could take less bumps. So he was limited in his matches, and his best matches were with people like Bret Hart or the Rock, who could carry him. He stunk when facing the Undertaker or Kane, or anyone else who wasn't a great wrestler themselves.Also, Austin's catch-phrases were pretty repetitive "What?", "That's the bottom line?" "Give me a hell-yeah". Besides, Austin was not a company guy, would play politics, walked out on his fans and the WWE numerous times, and his personal life isn't anything to be proud of (just ask his ex-wife, Debra McMichael).

I believe that Cena isn't liked because he has too much going for him. He is a company guy, unlike Hogan or Austin, he does what he is told. He is no worse a wrestler than Hogan, nor any worse on the mike than Austin, and at least he doesn't repeat the same catch-cries, other than "The Champ Is Here". His personal life is more in order as well, and he attracts the future generations. But this is why fans don't like him. They don't like people who have it all together, and seem to be liked. They would prefer controversial, ambigious figures, who have flaws like their fans. That is why Cena will never be considered as great as the fans. It has nothing to do with the fans, but that Cena is the right man for the wrong time.

I don't think you're really saying anything about Hogan that most fans don't already agree with. You're going to be hardpressed to find a lot of people that believe Hogan's promos are still great or that the man was ever a great wrestler. Telling us that Hogan can't wrestle and his promos were cheesy is like telling us the sky is blue and the grass is green. EVERYONE already readily accepts that as fact. No one calls Hogan a technical marvel. But you can't deny the success of the fan. He gave fans exactly what they wants at that time. That's the difference between Hogan and Cena. They may give fans the same basic thing but when Hogan gave it to them it was cutting edge and it drew in tons of new fans. Now when Cena gives the same thing 20 years later it's the furtherest thing from cutting edge and one of the main reasons why the WWE is marketing itself more towards children. As it's been said, Cena isn't really bringing in many new fans and he's had 7 years to do it.

Again, what new information are you giving us on Austin? What does the personal life of Steve Williams have to do with the wrestler Steve Austin? Austin is like Hogan. They both gave fans exactly what they wanted at the time they wanted it. Wrestling as a whole was flipped on it's ear when both men became top stars. So what if the origins of their gimmicks are Billy Graham and Sandman ripoffs? It worked.

You're completely missing the mark. Being a company man doesn't make Cena a legend. It's only worth the coveted "brownie points." His wrestling ability isn't very relative either nor is such a trivial matter like his catchphrases. Throw all of that to the wayside. The bottomline is that the greatest of the greats are the ones that gives fans exactly what it is they want. Cena only does that for about half the audience after all of these years.

You're right on one point. If Cena came around in the 80s he probably would have been huge because back then fans were looking for great bodies and goodie goodies. It was a simple time. But he didn't. THAT'S why he isn't one of the greats. The greats are the right people at the right time. It involves a lot of luck, Vince's approval and the inborn charisma of the wrestler making the perfect combination.

One final point, you're bang off when you say that Cena brings in the new generation. He really doesn't. That's not to say new fans have come to wrestling since Cena has been the man. They have. But his numbers are absolutely tiny compared to the true greats. I also don't think it's fair to say that a lot of fans resent Cena because he brings in the little kids (which is what it seemed like you were eluding to; apologies if you weren't.) That sells fans short. I'll tell you what I'm looking for in a good wrestler. I'm looking for a guy who is great in the ring and who is generally interesting on the mic. It doesn't matter if they embody the old cliched line of being a "shades of gray" character. Look at The Rock. When he first became huge he was a cut and dry heel. For the majority of the time he was on top he was absolutely a face through and through. How about Jericho? He has spent extended periods of time as either a clear cut face or heel. I love these guys. I know what side of the fence they're on. They're widely know as nice guys. Jericho is about the biggest company man there is. Rock has never really had flaws. So your theories on what fans want is wrong.

Fans want wrestlers who entertain them. That's it. For some people Cena gets the job done. For some other people he doesn't. There isn't a science to it. Your checklist need not apply.

 

[Joup7]

Cena will be a great to say the least. A legend......i'm not sure on that.

And to respond to a note about Ric Flair's standing: in wrestling circles he is a legend with Hogan and Austin. However, he is not as well known outside wrestling circles by the common man. You ask anybody on the street who Hogan is, they will know. Same on Austin. Same on The Rock. Not as many will know Flair. It's unfortunate, but that's what happened. That's why I think the original poster put him with Hart and not Hogan/Austin.

 

[Razor]

When John Cena finally hangs up the boots for good, where will he stand in wrestling history?

A man who was incredibly over, and helped the product along like few others this generation.

Will wrestling fans look back and consider him the greatest ever?

No greater than Hogan or Rock, if that's what you're asking. He's a damn fine pro-wrestler, and works that crowd like putty in his hands. However, until he reigns over a wrestling boom or heralds the company through bad times he isn't to be rated alongside them.

Will he be the record holder of World titles?

I doubt it. Cena has always had relatively longer reigns, hasn't he? Except for that month long title reign where he dropped it to Jericho or someone or another in a month. However, if they want him to start dropping titles left and right ala Edge, then so be it. He'll be just as likely as Orton or Edge to hold the title of "most heavyweight championships."

Will people see him as a "great", but not a "legend"? Will he share the stage with guys like Hulk Hogan and Steve Austin, or just below them with guys like Bret Hart and Ric Flair?

I think he's like Orton. I hate Orton's character, and not because he's a heel. He's fucking boring to watch. However, I understand that Orton does his job like none other. Orton is the heel of these next years. Cena is Orton, except Cena can pull off a heel or face persona. Cena has that crowd worked, just like Orton. Cena can work a match with the greats, like Orton. But there's one caveat. Cena, like Orton, hasn't had that moment to really launch the WWE into the sky. They're doing their part to keep the company afloat, but they haven't really made a Hogan impact.

 

[The Todd]

As much as I'd like him to be, he won't be at Hogan's or Austin's level unfortunately. However, those saying below Hart I can't agree with. Hart was the top guy in the company at a poor time for the WWE. He was always overshadowed by Hogan and Sting due to their company being more popular. If Hart was as good as people say he was he would have pulled the WWE ratings up a bit more but it was Austin who eventually got this done.

Now, Cena is the top guy in the WWE at a time where ratings wise they are doing poorly (compared to past generations) but financially they are doing incredibly well of which Cena is a big part. They are undoubtedly the number one promotion, albeit thanks to Austin in the past, and Cena is the main guy. He is comfortably outdrawing a promotion with Kurt Angle and Sting, two men many will claim to be above Cena.

As far as a business aspect goes Cena will have done more than Hart and HBK did, up there with The Rock. Cena has more mainstream exposure than many superstars in the past have where he can advertise WWE as much as possible.

Providing Cena stays in the WWE for about another ten years he could well be in the B list of superstars in history.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I'm not going to make my opinion on Cena public in this thread(those who know me, know where I stand).

But if you are asking me where Cena is going to rank in WWE history, I have to say, and I can't believe the words are coming out of my mouth, he will be remembered as one of the greats. He has definately helped the business along in the last few years and he does get some kind of reaction from the crowd, love him or hate him. He sells merchandise and he is cross over with the media. He will go down as a great, I hate it, but he will.

Having said that, he is nowhere near the level of great as Hogan or Austin. Both of those guys revolutionized the business in there day and are probably the most popular superstars of all time. Cena isn't and will never be as big as those guys.

 

[GameOver]

Hogan didn't just appeal to kids and the audience certainly wasn't primarily kids.? if anything it was 50/50

Hogan/The Rock appealed to every generation from kids to the elderly
Austin was pretty much all Teens to adults and
Cena is pretty much kiddies and females.

Cena is only as good as the guys he faces and the push he gets from WWE.
But that can be the case for anyone