It seems to me that we just don't see enough people tap out anymore. It's all about hitting one high impact move and it's over. Some wrester's desparately need a new finisher, and I think the finisher needs to be in the form of a submissive move. Diva's for example, half of them don't even have a decent finisher. So give them some new fangled submission that only looks like a woman would do. With Submission finisher's, there is such a dramatic climax to a match. Will he tap? Will he make it to the ropes? I'm gonna give a small (huge) example. Night of Champions: Triple H vs John Cena for the WWE Championship. Nearing the end of the match Cena had Triple H in the STFU, and every thought that it might've been over, that we were gonna see Wrestlemania 22 all over again. NOT! In what quickly became a huge match moment in WWE history, Triple H reversed the STFU, into the Crossface. The matches climax looked to be at its peak, but instead, the drama and excitement goes through the roof, and the crowd became totally unglued. It's moments like that... That make submission finisher's the most exciting finishers to matches, ever.
What Wrestlers Need a Submission Finisher?
- Thread starter kingrko
- Start date
IrishCanadian25
Going on 10 years with WrestleZone
Well, for starters, I'd like to see enhanced emphasis put in the Anaconda Vice by CM Punk. The GTS is effective, but it does not strike me as the finisher of a World Heavyweight Champion. The Anaconda Vice would be a great focus for him.
John Morrison. Here's a guy who is talented and flexible, but could use an added dimension to his game in order to go to the "next level." I have been saying for some time now that an adjusted version of the Abdominal Stretch (like when Razor Ramon used to lift an opponents leg up) would work well, and a guy like Morrison could use it as a way to mock the abs of his opponent. "The Flab Expose" would be what I'd call it.
Finlay could employ a Sleeper Hold like Rowdy Roddy Piper did - though he's too much of a high-impact guy to use a submission as a main finish. I've said that a high impact powerslam called an "Irish Car Bomb" and a sleeper hold called "The Hangover" would suffice.
John Morrison. Here's a guy who is talented and flexible, but could use an added dimension to his game in order to go to the "next level." I have been saying for some time now that an adjusted version of the Abdominal Stretch (like when Razor Ramon used to lift an opponents leg up) would work well, and a guy like Morrison could use it as a way to mock the abs of his opponent. "The Flab Expose" would be what I'd call it.
Finlay could employ a Sleeper Hold like Rowdy Roddy Piper did - though he's too much of a high-impact guy to use a submission as a main finish. I've said that a high impact powerslam called an "Irish Car Bomb" and a sleeper hold called "The Hangover" would suffice.
justinsayne
Cody Rhodes is an excellant
I've always felt that Finley should use the Coverleaf as a finisher, he should keep the Celtic Cross, but I think the addition of a submission would be good, and the Cloverleaf would be the perfect submission, and would work well with the fact that he's irish, he could use the Celtic Cross to set-up the Cloverleaf, similar to how Cena uses the F-U to set up the STFU
I also think Mark Henry is in huge need of a new finisher, especially now that he's holding a title, the Slam he does looks stupid, as does that dumb splash, I mean the splash could work but it would look more effective he he would at least do it off the second rope, doing just from the regular standing position looks ******ed, I would give him something like the slam Big Boss Man used to use, or if he's able to do it, the Mark Of Excellence, you know the move Mark Jindrak used before getting released, but as far a a submission goes, why not have him use the torture rack, no one else uses the move right now, and Mark Henry has the power to really make it work, that or he could go back to useing the Bear hug, it really doesn't look all that impressive, but it's better than the slam he's using currently
I also think Mark Henry is in huge need of a new finisher, especially now that he's holding a title, the Slam he does looks stupid, as does that dumb splash, I mean the splash could work but it would look more effective he he would at least do it off the second rope, doing just from the regular standing position looks ******ed, I would give him something like the slam Big Boss Man used to use, or if he's able to do it, the Mark Of Excellence, you know the move Mark Jindrak used before getting released, but as far a a submission goes, why not have him use the torture rack, no one else uses the move right now, and Mark Henry has the power to really make it work, that or he could go back to useing the Bear hug, it really doesn't look all that impressive, but it's better than the slam he's using currently
DeadmanInc.
Getting Noticed By Management
CM Punk should use the Anaconda Vice again. The GTS could be a set-up move for the Anaconda Vice, but it just doesn't seem like a good finisher. I really hope they make CM Punk a heel and let him use the Anaconda Vice again. His natural heel persona and a sadistic submission maneuver like the Vice could propel CM Punk as a true main eventer.
I think Edge should use the Edgecator more often (I haven't seen him use it since his Royal Rumble match with Shawn Michaels). He really needs to move away from the Spear as his main finisher and start using the Edgecator and Edgecution again. His Spear comes off as really weak when you have bigger guys like Batista (and Lashley when he was around) using the same move. He could still use the Spear as an occasional finisher though since the surprise element fits his opportunistic character.
Submissions are great for heels especially, which is why I think Edge should have a submission maneuver, being the top heel right now. If they allowed him to be a little more sadistic than cowardly, a submission finisher would be great for him.
I think Edge should use the Edgecator more often (I haven't seen him use it since his Royal Rumble match with Shawn Michaels). He really needs to move away from the Spear as his main finisher and start using the Edgecator and Edgecution again. His Spear comes off as really weak when you have bigger guys like Batista (and Lashley when he was around) using the same move. He could still use the Spear as an occasional finisher though since the surprise element fits his opportunistic character.
Submissions are great for heels especially, which is why I think Edge should have a submission maneuver, being the top heel right now. If they allowed him to be a little more sadistic than cowardly, a submission finisher would be great for him.
loads of guys could use a new submission finisher, but it would also be nice if the ones people had made people tap out. When was the last time some one submitted to the walls of Jericho, or the crossface.
Edge could definatly use the submission finisher and I think another guy to have a submission finisher should be MVP, he's a pretty technical guy, not to mention that the playmaker sucks
Edge could definatly use the submission finisher and I think another guy to have a submission finisher should be MVP, he's a pretty technical guy, not to mention that the playmaker sucks
Monkey_Mania
I Am The One Who Knocks
I agree that C.M. Punk needs to go back to using the Anaconda Vice. It was a great move and even I not being a Punk fan would mark out whenever he used it. I've never understood why he stopped using it.
MVP is in desperate need of a submission move. His Playmaker finisher leaves a lot to be desired. I think he could pull of the Sharpshooter really well. He could use the Playmaker to set the move up and then lock in the Sharpshooter.
Also. I know that Charlie Haas isnt a major player but I havent seen him use his submission move in forever. Hass Of Pain is an amazing submission. Maybe he could teach it to Shelton Benjamin or someone who could utilize that move properly.
MVP is in desperate need of a submission move. His Playmaker finisher leaves a lot to be desired. I think he could pull of the Sharpshooter really well. He could use the Playmaker to set the move up and then lock in the Sharpshooter.
Also. I know that Charlie Haas isnt a major player but I havent seen him use his submission move in forever. Hass Of Pain is an amazing submission. Maybe he could teach it to Shelton Benjamin or someone who could utilize that move properly.
BigShowEatsPizza
New Member
I totally agree that more submissions need to be used. Watching The Great Khali put his hands on people's faces as a submission really makes me want to change the channel... I mean, it's great watching Triple H and HBK use the crossface, but we gotta see more matches that end with tap outs. I think they should give some of the smaller heels finishing submission moves. I could picture Santino or Chavito making somebody tap out. (That is if Santino ever starts wrestling seriously again and if Chavo wins a match). Maybe even Cody Rhodes. He is DEFINITELY in need of a good finisher...
PlayTheGame
The Cerebral Assassin
I think MVP needs a submission finisher. If he debuted a new effective submission finisher that was really a force to be reckoned with then his character could get out of the slump that it seems to be in.
Other wrestlers that also deserve a submission finisher: HHH (I'm a huge HHH fan, as you could probably tell, but the Pedigree just looks sloppy anymore, and its usually countered), Edge (his spear sucks), Kane (maybe a scary-looking choke maneuver), & Ric Flair (that one was a joke)
Other wrestlers that also deserve a submission finisher: HHH (I'm a huge HHH fan, as you could probably tell, but the Pedigree just looks sloppy anymore, and its usually countered), Edge (his spear sucks), Kane (maybe a scary-looking choke maneuver), & Ric Flair (that one was a joke)
CaseyisBA52'sGFnow
Dark Match Winner
Matt Hardy should start using the "Scar" in the WWE so that he can have his own identity away from Jeff Hardy. if he turned heel and started using a submission hold i think he would be a whole lot interesting than he is now.
I think this is a great idea. For one thing, many submission holds can be applied on any opponent no matter how big they are. Can you picture CM Punk hitting someone like, say, Mark Henry with the GTS? I'm sure he would be able to slap on the Anaconda Vice, though!
Even Rey Mysterio is a good example. The 6-1-9 into the West Coast Pop is great, but it would add some extra variety to his matches if he was able to pull out a signature submission hold just when you think he's down and out.
The Undertaker has been using the triangle choke to end his matches here & there. In most cases it's been just as exciting as seeing use the tombstone (very dangerous for his opponent) or the Last Ride (bad for his back).
And as the title of the thread indicates, the key here is that these would need to be submission FINISHERs. We can't have opponents constantly reversing or breaking out or reversing them. Unless you set the precedent that a submission move really is a match-ender, it will definitely not have the desired impact with the crowd.
Even Rey Mysterio is a good example. The 6-1-9 into the West Coast Pop is great, but it would add some extra variety to his matches if he was able to pull out a signature submission hold just when you think he's down and out.
The Undertaker has been using the triangle choke to end his matches here & there. In most cases it's been just as exciting as seeing use the tombstone (very dangerous for his opponent) or the Last Ride (bad for his back).
And as the title of the thread indicates, the key here is that these would need to be submission FINISHERs. We can't have opponents constantly reversing or breaking out or reversing them. Unless you set the precedent that a submission move really is a match-ender, it will definitely not have the desired impact with the crowd.
smackdown27
Dark Match Jobber
I think Shawn Michaels need it most of all as he is such a pathetic wrestler otherwise. All he knows is how to deliver a Chin Kick and a good for nothing Inverted Atomic Drop. The rest of the match, he absolutely bore people with his headlocks and sleepers.
I find it funny that people boo Cena because of his limited offense but he has still got more moves than HBK including a submission move in form of the STF. He has got a Bulldog, a Hiptoss and a very athletic move where he comes from behind, leaps in the air and smash his opponent's face into the canvas. His finisher is better than HBK as well.
I find it funny that people boo Cena because of his limited offense but he has still got more moves than HBK including a submission move in form of the STF. He has got a Bulldog, a Hiptoss and a very athletic move where he comes from behind, leaps in the air and smash his opponent's face into the canvas. His finisher is better than HBK as well.
I agree that Shawn Michaels could use a submission, finisher, and I also think it could be something he'd be amazing at utilzing. I don't agree that Shawn Michaels is a pathetic wrestler, and that his match skills are limited to nothing more than Sweet Chin Music and the Inverted Atomic Drop. While Shawn Michaels could definitely be even greater with a submission finisher, I don't know if he'd actually NEED it.
As for Cena's STFU, the move doesn't look like it hurts at all. Cena doesn't really even wrench back on the opponents neck. He just locks his hands around the chin and thats it. While it is an exciting finisher that really gets the crowd going, the move itself sometimes just doesn't look that painful.
Now that Lance Cade is ready to become a more upper card wrestler, he could use a new finisher. IMO his sit-down-spinebuster just doesn't seem devastating enough. He could use something like a Texas cloverleaf or even a variation of the Walls of Jericho.
Also, Santino Desperately needs a believable finisher. With his Judo background I'm sure he can come up with some sort of submission.
Also, Santino Desperately needs a believable finisher. With his Judo background I'm sure he can come up with some sort of submission.
Afro-Ameri-Spawn
Houston's Hometown Hero
I find it funny that many of the people mentioned such as Shawn Michaels, Edge, andMark Henry already have submission finishers. Shawn has the figure four variation, Edge has the Edgucator, and Mark Henry has the Deep Wrenching Bear Hug. Although a the Hercules Hernandez variation of the torture rack back breaker would probably suit his frame and size very well.
Now with that said, the one wrestler that I do think should have a submission finisher is MVP. I was watching the old AWA and saw a wrestler, I can't remember which, using the old Indian Deathlock. And while many of the moves used today are modified versions of old moves, I saw this as being the one move that could be used as is or updated a little. It requires little skill and could be set up by MVP's patented mafia kick.
Now with that said, the one wrestler that I do think should have a submission finisher is MVP. I was watching the old AWA and saw a wrestler, I can't remember which, using the old Indian Deathlock. And while many of the moves used today are modified versions of old moves, I saw this as being the one move that could be used as is or updated a little. It requires little skill and could be set up by MVP's patented mafia kick.
smackdown27
Dark Match Jobber
OK... so even if Shawn is not a pathetic wrestler, I would still like to hear what else has he got other than Inverted Atomic Drop, Sweet Chin Music and some boring headlocks that even me and you can apply on anyone.
To answer Spawn's question, Shawn's Figure Four variation (as you called it) is not his own neither is the Crossface that he often use. If he wants to prove he is anything more than a rookie even after all those years, he should bring out a more innovative submission move as well as a few more wrestling moves which he currently lacks big time. All he is at the moment is a showman.
Shawn Michaels doesnt need a submission finisher, for the same reason the Undertaker didnt need a submission finisher, but theres nothing to stop him from getting one.
As far as his moveset goes, well the scoop slam, elbow drop, any number of chain wrestling moves, backdrops, piledriver (illegal, but he still uses it), hip toss, arm drags, russian leg sweep, suplex, superplex, moonsault and thats just off the top of my head, also dont forget that he can mat wrestle with the likes of Kurt Angle. I really shouldnt get into this here though so maybe you should start a Shawn Michaels hate thread or something.
I also think if they were to start pushing Tommy Dreamer he could use a submission finisher, I dont see why not seeing how he never gets his regular finishers in, he could do a variation of the indian deathlock or something, who knows then WWE might turn him into a matchwinner.
I like the idea or an Edge submission, something he could capitalize on. Tricks the opponent into the position, locks it in and gets the tap out, that would suit his character. An opportunistic submission. Although the spear works very well, a secondary finisher is always good as it stops repetitive match endings.
smackdown27
Dark Match Jobber
I don't think this forum is the right place to start love threads or hate threads but it is just right to point things out which some people might be unaware of.
First of all, Piledriver and Russian Leg Sweep are not his moves so get real. He uses those two moves once a year.
Backdrop is not an offensive move, it's a counter move.
Don't actually remember him doing a Hip Toss other than a match against Cena where he returned the favour to Cena by using Cena's Hip Toss back on him. Besides, he hasn't got enough power to deliver a Hip Toss to guys like Triple H and Undertaker on a regular basis anyway.
When did he Mat Wrestle?
Oh yeah... I remember... When he applied the Head Lock to Kurt Angle at WM21 for 10 straight minutes. People like me who paid hard earned cash to watch WM21 were absolutely weeping to see that kind of boring wrestling match at the biggest PPV of the year. Thanks to Kurt Angle who made us happy again with his electrifying wrestling moves.
And, the reason he needs a submission move is because he is no Undertaker. If he is, where is his Chokeslam, Tombstone, Last Ride, Snake Eyes, Old School, Big Boot, DDT (not just any DDT but a running DDT) and a Leg Drop (not just any Leg Drop but a vicious one on the edge of the ring).
HBK is just a showman and the fact that he wins every match makes me sick. The other thing that surprises me is that people don't let him know how bad he wrestles while they are pretty quick to jump on Cena who is much better than at least Shawn Michaels.
Actually this forum is the perfect place for threads like this, post your thoughts about Shawn Michaels and people will reply telling you why they think your right or wrong.
The fact that he does these moves "once a year" is testament to the fact that he doesnt need to do them everymatch to bolster his moveset. I also forgot the Indian Deathlock
Backdrops are indeed offensive moves, you dont necessarily have to be countering some one elses moves to do them.
Okay you got me there
WrestleMania 21 is a good example, it wasnt just headlocks and sleepers it was takedowns and amatuer moves in general, I enjoyed it as it surprised me to see Kurt Angle upstaged (fake obviously, but surprising nonetheless)
The Undertaker is a legend, but to praise his moveset and then slate HBK's is just wrong, both guys do the moves that are best for their style and size, if you wanted to analyse it Undertaker probably does less moves than Shawn Michaels
Fact is Shawn has his regular moveset, he also has his little sequence where he builds up to his finisher (clothesline, flip up, inverted atomic drop, chop, elbow drop, dancing around, sweet chin music).
Shawn Michaels then just wrestles for the rest of the match, you'll usually see something new from him and he always surprises with what he can do.
Watch any of his matches with Y2J, they both do there regular moves but they do different innovative things in between.
Another example is Backlash 08 vs Batista, he didnt do many of his moves but if you watch him work over Batista's arm that is a testament to the great wrestler he really is.
Back on topic though, he really doesnt need a submission finisher, if he were to use one then he should have a few jobbers tap out to the indian deathlock, that will give the move some credibility with most fans, but I cant see why he needs one, Shawn Michaels is fine as he is.
I still maintain that MVP could use a submission finisher, something to get hime back on the winning track and add more suspense to his matches.
M
Mantard
Guest
I still hold firm that CM Punk needs to bring back the Vice. I don't think he's really the type that should win on pinfalls alone. Plus, the Anaconda Vice was just cool.
MVP would do very well to get a submission finisher. Very well indeed.
I think Kennedy would do well with a decent one too. The Mic Check is okay, but the (I think it was called) Green Bay Plunge/JFK was good too. But a submission for Mr. K would be nice.
MVP would do very well to get a submission finisher. Very well indeed.
I think Kennedy would do well with a decent one too. The Mic Check is okay, but the (I think it was called) Green Bay Plunge/JFK was good too. But a submission for Mr. K would be nice.
AnthonyMango/NoFate007
A Post Is Worth A Thousand Words
CM Punk - But only when he turns heel. I think his Anaconda Vice could work well, but not as a face.
MVP - But he just needs a new move in general. So he really needs both a submission (one that doesn't look "devastating" but looks legit) and something he could use for an impact finisher (and not the "kick to the head").
Lance Cade - He doesn't look like the type of powerhouse that can pull off a move like a powerbomb or something for his finisher, so he should go for a more technical submission.
Kane - Good lord does this guy need a submission. When you've got the Undertaker and Big Show using the choke slam, you need something else. Kane should go for something that looks like it could kill you, especially if they are in fact turning him heel again.
Matt Striker - To me, the "teacher" gimmick goes well with a submission....especially since hitting someone with a ruler would be a DQ lol.
Vladimir Kozlov - If you want me to take this guy seriously and not just as Smackdown's representative answer to ECW's Mike Knox and Raw's Snitsky, then give him a different finisher other than a freaking headbutt (or the terrible "scoop, drop him down, then inverted DDT")
John Morrison - I think he should still keep his finisher, but just add a submission to his arsenal.
MVP - But he just needs a new move in general. So he really needs both a submission (one that doesn't look "devastating" but looks legit) and something he could use for an impact finisher (and not the "kick to the head").
Lance Cade - He doesn't look like the type of powerhouse that can pull off a move like a powerbomb or something for his finisher, so he should go for a more technical submission.
Kane - Good lord does this guy need a submission. When you've got the Undertaker and Big Show using the choke slam, you need something else. Kane should go for something that looks like it could kill you, especially if they are in fact turning him heel again.
Matt Striker - To me, the "teacher" gimmick goes well with a submission....especially since hitting someone with a ruler would be a DQ lol.
Vladimir Kozlov - If you want me to take this guy seriously and not just as Smackdown's representative answer to ECW's Mike Knox and Raw's Snitsky, then give him a different finisher other than a freaking headbutt (or the terrible "scoop, drop him down, then inverted DDT")
John Morrison - I think he should still keep his finisher, but just add a submission to his arsenal.
Canadian Knight
Maple Leaf Warrior
Your right, Kane needs one as well as Vlad. ANother one is Snistsky, like using a sleeper hold of some kind. A person like him with strength should use it. Kane maybe a leglock of some kind. Vlad should maybe use a camel clutch or a sleeper as well. Like I say if you have strength use it.
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
You asked for someone to reply to this comment, so here I am.
Your lack of evidence for any of these claims makes this not worthwhile. I've asked it of you before, and I'm asking again seeings as you cannot seem to provide me with anything. Give me one match, just the one, that Shawn Michaels has simply used those two moves. I guarentee you I'll have seen the match.
And I'll offer you a little bit of viewing. Go watch the match Shawn Michaels had with Kurt Angle at WM 21. This is one of the best matches in WWE history if you ask me, due to many different factors. And yes, Shawn used a hell of a lot more than 2 moves.
Or maybe another more recent match? The match he had with Chris Jericho recently? This was a good match, nice storylines going into it, good selling. Show me, once again, Shawns only two moves please?
Furthermore, stop using John Cena as trying to say he's a better 'real' (as people like to say) wrestler than Shawn Michaels. No one will believe you. Shawn isn't the best technical wrestler, however he sure as hell is better than Cena. When you look at more factors when it comes to pro wrestling, the 2 begin to even out. But simply looking at move set it's Shawn by a long slide. If you ask me, you've never seen a Shawn Michaels match.
And, what makes you think knowing 500,000 different moves makes you a better wrestler? My betting is you'd be bored as hell if 2 amateurs stepped into the ring and suddenly started with many different moves. That's not what you pay to see.
So once again, some evidence for your claims would be nice please. And as I said, watch one of those matches with Shawn in. I'll be awaiting your apology for being wrong.
Darkshot77
Pre-Show Stalwart
When MVP wrestled in the indipendents as Antonio Bank$$ he had a submission the T.T.B. Take it to The Bank or the Tribute To Beniot, an armtrap crossface. I understand with the tragic Beniot incident the WWE wanted to go away from his moves, but if Shawn and Hunter can use it MVP could too
Well submissions always add the, 'it could end here' aspect to the match, without it being definate. So there a quite a few that could add sumbissions.
CM Punk: He should start using the vice again, not all the time. But only when he can't lift the guys up for the GTS, and it adds another move to his arsenal so it couldn't hurt.
MVP: He really needs a decent finisher besides a standard boot. I think he could use the Crossface. Oh but oh noes, he would dis'pecting Benoit 'cause it's his movey thingy. If not the crossface then maybe a Sharpshooter.
Batista: It couldn't hurt I suppose. I mean, he can't lift everyone up for the Batista Bomb and we end up with some crappy spear or Spinebuster.
CM Punk: He should start using the vice again, not all the time. But only when he can't lift the guys up for the GTS, and it adds another move to his arsenal so it couldn't hurt.
MVP: He really needs a decent finisher besides a standard boot. I think he could use the Crossface. Oh but oh noes, he would dis'pecting Benoit 'cause it's his movey thingy. If not the crossface then maybe a Sharpshooter.
Batista: It couldn't hurt I suppose. I mean, he can't lift everyone up for the Batista Bomb and we end up with some crappy spear or Spinebuster.