What has Vince's booking of Reigns done to his confidence?

[steven87gill]

That ending segment was crapped on by the live crowd & panned by pretty much everybody on social media & rightfully so. Reigns has got a bright future ahead so long as they change course now with a heel turn & don't go down the Cena route with him & force him into a face role he clearly isn't ready for. You can defend Cena all day long (and I'll agree with you to an extent) but that guy would've been a bona-fide legend & true needle mover for WWE on the level of a Rock or Austin if they'd gone with the nuclear heat he was getting in 2006 & had the stones to actually turn him heel, instead of wussing out & him ending up as the dull-as-dishwater 'safe pair of hands' we've been stuck with for a decade now, not really doing anything particularly positive or negative for business, just sort of being there.

It's incredibly frustrating to watch them make the same missteps with Roman that they made with Cena 10 years ago.

 

[multiverseman.com]

This is your fault for thinking that the hardcore fans are the most passionate. They're just the biggest whiners.

Casual fans just want to enjoy a product. Hardcore fans want to run a product.

This is simply not true. Hardcore fans are like fans of any other genre. They just want to be entertained by what they see and hold promoters accountable for their product. Just like Breaking Bad, just like Walking Dead, just like any show. If you entertain them, they're happy. You don't have to do exactly what they want, but it has to keep them entranced or they complain.

The difference is, WWE is a spectator sport where they encourage crowd participation. They tell you your opinion matters and that's what they go by. So when they don't like your product, what do you expect to get but boos? In an era where fans are less engaged in the product than ever, you reap what you sow.

There have been smart fans since the internet began. They didn't hijack shows because even when they found fault with something, the presentation kept them into it.

WWE's lost the ability to keep them into it and it's reached a fever pitch.

 

[multiverseman.com]

That ending segment was crapped on by the live crowd & panned by pretty much everybody on social media & rightfully so. Reigns has got a bright future ahead so long as they change course now with a heel turn & don't go down the Cena route with him & force him into a face role he clearly isn't ready for. You can defend Cena all day long (and I'll agree with you to an extent) but that guy would've been a bona-fide legend & true needle mover for WWE on the level of a Rock or Austin if they'd gone with the nuclear heat he was getting in 2006 & had the stones to actually turn him heel, instead of wussing out & him ending up as the dull-as-dishwater 'safe pair of hands' we've been stuck with for a decade now, not really doing anything particularly positive or negative for business, just sort of being there.

It's incredibly frustrating to watch them make the same missteps with Roman that they made with Cena 10 years ago.

I agree with you completely. This idea that Cena is simply "controversial" and that the boos don't matter as long as you're paying attention is damaging and illogical. Sure, Cena's a star. Sure, he's done decently in spite of the boos. But ratings have gone down, buyrates were sinking, and they got a weak TV deal. All because the real money in Cena was him being a HEEL. Keeping him the way he's been for years now is vanilla, safe booking, but it's not what keeps a promotion hot.

 

[SoulTrain4]

This is your fault for thinking that the hardcore fans are the most passionate. They're just the biggest whiners.

Casual fans just want to enjoy a product. Hardcore fans want to run a product.

Real fucking talk. One set of fans want to see what they had planned and the other wants to dictate plans.

This is why I dislike the IWC, it's like a bunch of adults constantly telling children Christmas is a sham and Santa is isn't real, it's corny.

Sure we have opinions but our opinions are not facts and probably not at all the opinion of the larger audience.

If you want to ruin Wrestlemania for yourself dweebs fine, but let the kids have fun, let them cheer Cena, Roman, Orton and whoever else they want.

I couldn't imagine going to WWF and people screaming about "Why they shoving The Rock down my throat??! Don't they hear the boos?!"

GTFOH.

 

[laodaron]

This is simply not true. Hardcore fans are like fans of any other genre. They just want to be entertained by what they see and hold promoters accountable for their product. Just like Breaking Bad, just like Walking Dead, just like any show. If you entertain them, they're happy. You don't have to do exactly what they want, but it has to keep them entranced or they complain.

Absolutely false. If you're booing Roman Reigns, it's because you're trying to tell the WWE who YOU want pushed. If you don't like Breaking Bad, you stop watching. You don't try and ruin the show for everyone else.

The difference is, WWE is a spectator sport where they encourage crowd participation. They tell you your opinion matters and that's what they go by. So when they don't like your product, what do you expect to get but boos? In an era where fans are less engaged in the product than ever, you reap what you sow.

No, they don't encourage your participation. They'd do just as well if you sat like a Japanese crowd. Fans aren't less engaged, that's a myth, and you can't present any numbers to say otherwise. There's just more ways to be engaged, so the medium you use probably has less numbers.

There have been smart fans since the internet began. They didn't hijack shows because even when they found fault with something, the presentation kept them into it.

Sure. But 7 guys at a Live Show is not an entire section. The prevalence of the internet has come close to ruining professional wrestling, but only be empowering hipster douchebags that want to shit on something instead of letting other people like it. You don't have to like everything, but that doesn't mean the things you don't like have to be destroyed.

WWE's lost the ability to keep them into it and it's reached a fever pitch.

Nah, I'm more engaged than ever before in pro-wrestling. As far as I'm concerned, this is possibly the best era ever of professional wrestling.

 

[CyberPunk]

Absolutely false. If you're booing Roman Reigns, it's because you're trying to tell the WWE who YOU want pushed. If you don't like Breaking Bad, you stop watching. You don't try and ruin the show for everyone else.

No, they don't encourage your participation. They'd do just as well if you sat like a Japanese crowd. Fans aren't less engaged, that's a myth, and you can't present any numbers to say otherwise. There's just more ways to be engaged, so the medium you use probably has less numbers.

Sure. But 7 guys at a Live Show is not an entire section. The prevalence of the internet has come close to ruining professional wrestling, but only be empowering hipster douchebags that want to shit on something instead of letting other people like it. You don't have to like everything, but that doesn't mean the things you don't like have to be destroyed.


Nah, I'm more engaged than ever before in pro-wrestling. As far as I'm concerned, this is possibly the best era ever of professional wrestling.

Except that shows like Breaking Bad aren't broadcast live in an arena full of people. Pro-wrestling has always been about crowd participation. That's the very base of pro-wrestling. Unlike any other medium, pro-wrestling encourages audience participation. For a long time, the biggest revenue stream for any pro-wrestling show has been gate money and money made from live audience merchandising. It's only last few years where other mediums have come to fore in wrestling. Still a wrestling show would look weird on TV without active crowd participation.

Look, I know you love this main event, and that is great. You are free to choose what you like. However, Lesnar vs Reigns build up has given me zero reasons to invest in this feud. Last night's confrontation gave me no real reason to tune into their match. And the crowd pretty much booed through the segment, whether you want to admit or not they did. That didn't make for good TV. Will this dent Reigns' confidence? Hopefully not. He is good enough but somehow WWE has put him in a position where he has no option but to go swinging. If he swims great, if he sinks, WWE will find someone else.

 

[Wald]

Are the people saying it's just the IWC turning on Reigns actually even watching the shows? He got booed out of the building last night and that wasn't a smarky crowd, at best he has had a 50/50 reaction on Raw in recent weeks.

Do you think the IWC is that big? And if it is that big does that not make the IWC more prominent attendance wise than the casuals?

 

[Navi]

Are the people saying it's just the IWC turning on Reigns actually even watching the shows? He got booed out of the building last night and that wasn't a smarky crowd, at best he has had a 50/50 reaction on Raw in recent weeks.

Do you think the IWC is that big? And if it is that big does that not make the IWC more prominent attendance wise than the casuals?

No and I would hazard a guess that most people in the audience have no idea what the IWC is. At a house show recently with Tyler Breeze and Sasha Banks there, people around me had no clue as to who they were. So obviously they don't watch NXT, have the network, or are members of the IWC.

Most of these shows consist of fans who probably watch RAW and SD and that's the extent of it. Nothing wrong with that, but when they boo someone like Reigns that means more than someone who posts on an internet wrestling site does. They are making a determined choice on not liking what they see based on just seeing him on TV for a few minutes each week.

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

This is your fault for thinking that the hardcore fans are the most passionate. They're just the biggest whiners.

Casual fans just want to enjoy a product. Hardcore fans want to run a product.

You're talking about "hardcore fans" like they're some outside entity. YOU are a hardcore fan. Anyone posting on this message board is a hardcore wrestling fan.

This intra-subculture debate about the IWC and its effect on the product and how fans should behave at live events , is becoming farcical.

Just come to grips with the fact that fans have a voice, and not everything that the WWE puts out there is going to be accepted. And because of the live interaction aspect of pro wrestling, they will let those voices be heard. If you can't accept it, I suggest you limit your WWE viewing to 1980's PPVs on the Network.

 

[laodaron]

You're talking about "hardcore fans" like they're some outside entity. YOU are a hardcore fan. Anyone posting on this message board is a hardcore wrestling fan.

This intra-subculture debate about the IWC and its effect on the product and how fans should behave at live events , is becoming farcical.

Just come to grips with the fact that fans have a voice, and not everything that the WWE puts out there is going to be accepted. And because of the live interaction aspect of pro wrestling, they will let those voices be heard. If you can't accept it, I suggest you limit your WWE viewing to 1980's PPVs on the Network.

This is an idiotic post. I'm certainly not a casual fan, but I'm not hardcore, either. I'm just a fan.

Fans do not have a voice, and they never have. It's an illusion, and a brilliant work by the WWE. Sure, in indy feds, TNA, or whatever, fans have some sort of voice. But in the WWE, every stupid opinion and fantasy booking is met with the same disdain by the management. They run the stories that they want to. You don't dictate shit to them. You and every other self-righteous fan that thinks your $24.99 ticket to a Live Show buys you the right to be a dick are just wrong.

 

[multiverseman.com]

Absolutely false. If you're booing Roman Reigns, it's because you're trying to tell the WWE who YOU want pushed. If you don't like Breaking Bad, you stop watching. You don't try and ruin the show for everyone else.

Nonsense. Utterly illogical. Breaking Bad isn't professional wrestling. The comparison doesn't hold up. One is a scripted episodic TV drama. The other is a live simulated sport that relies on the crowd as much as anything else.

No, they don't encourage your participation. They'd do just as well if you sat like a Japanese crowd.

I've literally never heard anything more false about wrestling.

Hulk Hogan cupping his ear is asking for crowd participation. Stone Cold throwing the middle finger is crowd participation. Rock saying "If ya smelllll...." is crowd participation. They have a category at the Slammy's called "best crowd". They mic the crowd so you can hear them. They mute the crowd when there's a response they don't like. They pipe in pre-recorded crowd noise. You really don't know what you're talking about.

Japanese wrestling is about move-for-move in-ring drama. WWE is a variety show that takes place in the ring, out of the ring, backstage, and only part of it involves actual wrestling. If WWE was in front of a Japanese crowd, their business would be dead in a year.

Fans aren't less engaged, that's a myth, and you can't present any numbers to say otherwise. There's just more ways to be engaged, so the medium you use probably has less numbers.

I don't have to have numbers lol. The fact that their chanting JBL's name and booing people that are supposed to be faces and cheering heels shows their not engaged. If they were engaged, they wouldn't be trying to entertain themselves. Everybody with ears and eyes has proof.

Sure. But 7 guys at a Live Show is not an entire section. The prevalence of the internet has come close to ruining professional wrestling, but only be empowering hipster douchebags that want to shit on something instead of letting other people like it.

Listen to yourself.

The prevalence of the internet...a network of information...is ruining wrestling lol. That's almost as dumb as saying the WWE doesn't ask for crowd participation. Not quite, but almost.

The internet didn't ruin movies. It didn't ruin music. It hasn't ruined wrestling. Just like TV didn't ruin wrestling, it just changed it. The WWE Network's subs weren't uninspiring and the ratings trending down isn't because of the internet.

You don't have to like everything, but that doesn't mean the things you don't like have to be destroyed.

Wanting people to boo and give heat to a guy you don't like and cheer a guy at live events, but shut up when it doesn't go according to plan is foolish.

If it were 7 guys, we wouldn't be talking about it right now. This idiocy of a vocal minority doesn't hold up. If it were just a vocal minority, they'd be drowned out by a more vocal majority. That's how majorities and minorities work. You'd better be glad they still want to give WWE their opinion. If this were the AWA back in the 80's they'd just walk the hell out and put you out of business.

Nah, I'm more engaged than ever before in pro-wrestling. As far as I'm concerned, this is possibly the best era ever of professional wrestling.

Good for you. It's unfortunate you don't understand the business better though.

 

[multiverseman.com]

Real fucking talk. One set of fans want to see what they had planned and the other wants to dictate plans.

This is why I dislike the IWC, it's like a bunch of adults constantly telling children Christmas is a sham and Santa is isn't real, it's corny.

I've got a newsflash for you. Hold on tight. You are the IWC. You must hate yourself. Trying to differentiate yourself from other fans by acting like you're above the rest of us on here just because you cheer when they tell you is laughable.

Sure we have opinions but our opinions are not facts and probably not at all the opinion of the larger audience.

If the larger audience was so into what they saw, you wouldn't hear the supposed teeny tiny dweebs not doing what you want them to.

If you want to ruin Wrestlemania for yourself dweebs fine, but let the kids have fun, let them cheer Cena, Roman, Orton and whoever else they want.

Who's stopping them?

I couldn't imagine going to WWF and people screaming about "Why they shoving The Rock down my throat??! Don't they hear the boos?!"

GTFOH.[/quote]

You just shot yourself right in the foot.

They did scream exactly that. When Rocky Maivia debuted, the crowd hated him and chanted DIE ROCKY DIE. That's why he became arrogant abrasive Rock. That's why they called him the People's Champion. It wasn't supposed to be accurate, it was a heel move the people didn't like him.

Sounds like you're late to the party.