What do you remember from the environment in which the Attitude Era blossomed?

[braveh]

The late 90s was a very sleazy time period wasn't? The offensive personalities like Howard Stern and Don Imus dominated radio, sleazy shows like Jerry Springer and Ricki Lake dominated tv. Jerry Springer even beat Oprah in the tv ratings for a couple of years.

When Jordan quit basket and tried baseball there wasn't really any major sport in America that was thriving. NFL was in disarray, NHL was going through a backlash after a few years of popularity, NBA had nothing after Jordan quit, baseball were trying heal the wounds after the strike.........boxing was dead and gone as soon as Tyson lost the second bout against Holyfield.

In the middle of this was the attitude era with all time high of sleazy and offensive wrestling programming. ............and record high ratings and ppv-buys!

What are your thoughts on this time period and how did the attitude era fit into the puzzle?

 

[Zeven_Zion]

I think wrestling was not only trendy at that point but maybe even a bit ahead of its time. It was just re-done in a cool way which fit into the whole TV/entertainment industry, people's psychology and their viewing habits. Add to that great talent, writing, the situation with WCW and it would've been hard NOT to succeed.

Wrestling was doing then what Superhero movies are starting to do now to improve their appeal. Superhero movies are going from what they were to a bit darker, grittier more realistic version of it. They're being re-done and re-booted to fit the patterns that have been developing recently. So was wrestling in the late 90's.

The Attitude Era as well as the 80's showed how important it is to be truly "tuned in" and reflective of social, cultural, racial, economic and even political issues. It's part of why it's successful.

Nowadays? They got it all backwards. Instead of reflecting, the WWE distorts. They're like an old man trying to appeal to the youth but not using their jargon right and wearing clothes he shouldn't even be looking at.

They seem to have lost "it" and replaced it with "shit". (Copyright, Zeven Zion - 2012)

Sad but true. No wonder people loved that time in wrestling, it was amazing.

 

[Airehk]

I agree with what braveh is saying. The media was surrounded with sleaze in terms of what got people's attention. This is the era where South Park and Family Guy became relevant and everyone wanted to see "what will happen next". WWE at the time did just that.

Today we have a much more logical aura of sorts, yet it is filled with drama and what's going on behind the scenes of cliche/picture perfect personalities. It seems we are all interested in what devilish details are behind the face value of components. We look to shows like Breaking Bad, Weeds or Mad Men to satisfy this, however at the same time we also seem to enjoy our typical sitcom — from a television standpoint.

With WWE trying to compliment this, their evolved history and current roster, its tricky for them to actually get a good grasp on this and seem legitimate at the same time. The thing is WWE needs to relate to what's going on outside of their world to lure viewers in, but at the same time, its sleazy entertainment. Always has been, always will be. So where does this leave them?

In order to succeed in what they are, they need to use what is popular — sensible and reasonable thought — and peek people's interest in terms of what could happen or what would happen if. Also please us with more than what's expected. Hard to say where that sits in their business, but it applies on all levels. Plain and simple, its all in the booking that will help them grow. That, and the gimmiks as people can see right through a lot of the B.S. We need not reality TV but reality on TV.

 

[lalilulelo]

I agree with your outlook.

The 90's was a time of disenfranchisement and angst in American youth. The 80's had brought all of this big-time Wall St. ideology to the forefront. Like Gordon Gecko said, "Greed is good," and that was what the 80's was all about: everything had to be bigger. This is no more evident than in pro wrestling itself. Just look at how Hulk Hogan became not just the most popular wrestler in the world but also arguably the first pro wrestler to become an American icon, and I feel this is because, in his presentation, he was given to us as being larger than life; Hulk Hogan was a superhero.

Also, during this time, McMahon crushed the smaller, regional promotions by getting bigger. He added more lights, he put on shows in the biggest arenas, and even his performers were huge, steroid laden monsters of men that would look like freaks in today's ring. Everything had to literally be bigger.

However, the 80's had its share of harsh reality: the explosion of the Challenger; the Iran-Contra Affair; the seedy underbelly of Los Angeles' music scene and the famously violent culture of New York; it was just a time where the rich got richer, but things got worse for the poor, i.e. Reaganomics, though I don't want to engage in a political discussion whatsoever. All I'm saying is that all of this combined, the presentation of the 80's as being a time of affluence and growth while really being a time of violence and anger, built up into the 90s.

This culmination came to us in the form of the Seattle sound, aka Nirvana. When they arrived on the scene, suddenly teens and young adults found their outlet. Suddenly MTV was dominated not by cocaine fiends with teased hair and neon green guitars, but by young, angry people with flannel shirts and combat boots. Suddenly, gangster rap artists began to emerge, telling stories of police brutality and what life is like for the other half. The 90s was a time to draw down.

This is I think what braveh is talking about. We still had ridiculous shows and music, but shows like Springer and Stern focused more on this dark side to American living: blue-collar, "white trash" living, impoverished Americans; in the case of Stern, often times sideshow entertainers, strippers, etc. The 90s put the spotlight on these people.

That's why Stone Cold was so popular. The average American male was Working Class and had grown to hate the CEO of the 80s, and Stone Cold was their release. He was the anti-hero; he did bad things to bad people, and he was the ultimate badass for it. Even Hulk Hogan couldn't compete with that.

So, in the most roundabout way in which I could get to my point, yes, I think braveh has made a great observation. I'm going to cut myself off now before I ramble even more.

 

[RJJ]

I agree with your outlook.

The 90's was a time of disenfranchisement and angst in American youth. The 80's had brought all of this big-time Wall St. ideology to the forefront. Like Gordon Gecko said, "Greed is good," and that was what the 80's was all about: everything had to be bigger. This is no more evident than in pro wrestling itself. Just look at how Hulk Hogan became not just the most popular wrestler in the world but also arguably the first pro wrestler to become an American icon, and I feel this is because, in his presentation, he was given to us as being larger than life; Hulk Hogan was a superhero.

Also, during this time, McMahon crushed the smaller, regional promotions by getting bigger. He added more lights, he put on shows in the biggest arenas, and even his performers were huge, steroid laden monsters of men that would look like freaks in today's ring. Everything had to literally be bigger.

However, the 80's had its share of harsh reality: the explosion of the Challenger; the Iran-Contra Affair; the seedy underbelly of Los Angeles' music scene and the famously violent culture of New York; it was just a time where the rich got richer, but things got worse for the poor, i.e. Reaganomics, though I don't want to engage in a political discussion whatsoever. All I'm saying is that all of this combined, the presentation of the 80's as being a time of affluence and growth while really being a time of violence and anger, built up into the 90s.

This culmination came to us in the form of the Seattle sound, aka Nirvana. When they arrived on the scene, suddenly teens and young adults found their outlet. Suddenly MTV was dominated not by cocaine fiends with teased hair and neon green guitars, but by young, angry people with flannel shirts and combat boots. Suddenly, gangster rap artists began to emerge, telling stories of police brutality and what life is like for the other half. The 90s was a time to draw down.

This is I think what braveh is talking about. We still had ridiculous shows and music, but shows like Springer and Stern focused more on this dark side to American living: blue-collar, "white trash" living, impoverished Americans; in the case of Stern, often times sideshow entertainers, strippers, etc. The 90s put the spotlight on these people.

That's why Stone Cold was so popular. The average American male was Working Class and had grown to hate the CEO of the 80s, and Stone Cold was their release. He was the anti-hero; he did bad things to bad people, and he was the ultimate badass for it. Even Hulk Hogan couldn't compete with that.

So, in the most roundabout way in which I could get to my point, yes, I think braveh has made a great observation. I'm going to cut myself off now before I ramble even more.

Enough with the BS. If it wasn't for Hogan and the NWO, Austin would've never been a huge fan favourite(Maybe a great heel). Hogan was the reason why the fans started cheering the bad guys. He made the color black look cool. And if I remember correctly, a year before Austin-McMahon started, there was a guy named sting was going against authority and kicking everybody's ass including his boss(Eric bischoff), and he was getting the same crowd reaction if not even bigger that steve did during his rivalry with McMahon.

 

[wrestlingfan]

I think wrestling was not only trendy at that point but maybe even a bit ahead of its time. It was just re-done in a cool way which fit into the whole TV/entertainment industry, people's psychology and their viewing habits. Add to that great talent, writing, the situation with WCW and it would've been hard NOT to succeed.

Wrestling was doing then what Superhero movies are starting to do now to improve their appeal. Superhero movies are going from what they were to a bit darker, grittier more realistic version of it. They're being re-done and re-booted to fit the patterns that have been developing recently. So was wrestling in the late 90's.

The Attitude Era as well as the 80's showed how important it is to be truly "tuned in" and reflective of social, cultural, racial, economic and even political issues. It's part of why it's successful.

Nowadays? They got it all backwards. Instead of reflecting, the WWE distorts. They're like an old man trying to appeal to the youth but not using their jargon right and wearing clothes he shouldn't even be looking at.

They seem to have lost "it" and replaced it with "shit". (Copyright, Zeven Zion - 2012)

Sad but true. No wonder people loved that time in wrestling, it was amazing.

Actually WWE's product today reflects the way society is today. Campy and pop. Society's gone softer along with WWE

 

[crippler]

Enough with the BS. If it wasn't for Hogan and the NWO, Austin would've never been a huge fan favourite(Maybe a great heel). Hogan was the reason why the fans started cheering the bad guys. He made the color black look cool. And if I remember correctly, a year before Austin-McMahon started, there was a guy named sting was going against authority and kicking everybody's ass including his boss(Eric bischoff), and he was getting the same crowd reaction if not even bigger that steve did during his rivalry with McMahon.

The nWo , Stone Cold Steve Austin and Sting beating people up wearing black all happened around the the same time so the nWo had nothing to do with Austin being a success also Austin was wearing black when Hogan was in his yellow trunks in the WWF (WWE). Also Vince has no control who the fans cheered or booed. Give Hogan credit where its deserved if it wasn't for Hogan wrestling would have never been as popular as it was. But he has nothing to do with the successes or fans liking Stone Cold. It was at The King of the Ring when Austin 1st said "Austin 3:16 says I just whipped your ass!" that got him cheered. Hogan did alot for the business but the fans cheering Austin he did not.

 

[RJJ]

The nWo , Stone Cold Steve Austin and Sting beating people up wearing black all happened around the the same time so the nWo had nothing to do with Austin being a success also Austin was wearing black when Hogan was in his yellow trunks in the WWF (WWE). Also Vince has no control who the fans cheered or booed. Give Hogan credit where its deserved if it wasn't for Hogan wrestling would have never been as popular as it was. But he has nothing to do with the successes or fans liking Stone Cold. It was at The King of the Ring when Austin 1st said "Austin 3:16 says I just whipped your ass!" that got him cheered. Hogan did alot for the business but the fans cheering Austin he did not.

First of all, I didn't say Hogan was the first to wear black. I said Hogan made black look cool. As far as I know, Austin was wearing black since his ECW days. Alot of wrestlers started wearing black when Hogan did(Sting and Savage-before he joined the nWo- to name a few). Second thing is, If I remember correctly, Austin became anti-authority right after his match at summerslam with owen, to keep him on TV without getting in the ring(wrestle). It was at that time where he gained alot of momentum by interfering in matches and beating people up for no reason, that's what really got him over big time. While all that was happening in the WWF, Sting and Hogan were already at the end of their 1 year long fued.
As far as the KOTR promo, no, it wasn't the main reason why he got cheered, it was great though.

 

[TripleCrown]

There may have been others who did it beforehand, but it was the Undertaker in WWE and Sting in WCW who made black the "go-to" color and UT made funeral themes and somber music popular.

 

[RJJ]

There may have been others who did it beforehand, but it was the Undertaker in WWE and Sting in WCW who made black the "go-to" color and UT made funeral themes and somber music popular.

Undertaker's been wearing black since his debut(1991),it wasn't really that big of a deal, but when Hogan changed his colors to black everybody followed(including Sting), and it became the go-to color.

 

[lalilulelo]

Enough with the BS. If it wasn't for Hogan and the NWO, Austin would've never been a huge fan favourite(Maybe a great heel). Hogan was the reason why the fans started cheering the bad guys. He made the color black look cool. And if I remember correctly, a year before Austin-McMahon started, there was a guy named sting was going against authority and kicking everybody's ass including his boss(Eric bischoff), and he was getting the same crowd reaction if not even bigger that steve did during his rivalry with McMahon.

You took my whole argument all wrong.

I wasn't comparing Hogan in his nWo days, and I concede I could have been more specific in that. I just meant that Hogan wasn't as relatable, in the 80s, as Austin was in the 90s. Again, I should have been more succinct in my point, knowing the potential volatility that my argument possessed.

Hogan, in the nWo, was one of the greatest villains in wrestling history, I would not dare doubt that. However, Austin was an anti-hero; not only did you want to be him, you could relate to him. Relativity is what makes a hero beloved, and that's the distinction I draw between Hogan and Austin, and the reason I named Austin my prototypical wrestling idol of the 90s. We admired Hogan, but we connected with Austin. It's the difference between Superman and Batman, and I say that both heroes, in each case, were great. And yes, Sting didn't get the credit he deserved, either. However, he was the Crow (and I mean that in a literal and figurative sense), whereas, again, Austin was Batman. The Crow was a character of vengeance, whereas Batman was a character of Justice: Austin vs McMahon was a feud to right the wrongs of corporate avarice, and Sting was more of a phantom, searching to smite the people who had ended him. Both were similar characters, but Austin was a redneck everyman, and that made him more popular, at least to a lot of people in the 90s.

At the best of times, both men were great and you're right that Hogan doesn't get enough credit with the hardcore fans. However, my argument was not in that vein and I apologize for not being clearer in my distinctions.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

What are your thoughts on this time period and how did the attitude era fit into the puzzle?

I remember Titanic racking up huge dollars at the box office. I remember the internet was growing but not that dominant. I remember Disney having a rebirth with some popular family films. I remember Guiliani cleaning up Times Square. I remember so-called "political correctness" gaining steam. I remember Nickolodeon growing significantly in popularity. I remember Seinfeld getting great reviews and ratings. I remember a thriving economy and cheap gas.

So other than the last part I disagree with the theory you are trying to present.

The Attitude Era succeeded due to it's superstars. People tuned in to see what a heel Hogan looked like and they stuck around to see who would take him down. Later they turned their attention to Austin and his feud with the most powerful man in wrestling who had changed from that announcer guy to the boss that we always knew he was. They stuck around to listen to a guy named The Rock electrify and to worship a guy like Foley who seemed to have a death wish.

The rest was all superficial. Val Venis, Sable, bloodbaths and the Godfather didn't bring in viewers. They may have kept some people from changing the channel but they were not draws. Things like going live and blowing shit up were probably more influential to the success of wrestling during this period compared to the "sleeze".

Speaking in simplistic terms about Jerry Springer all you want and people will buy the correlation without thinking, researching or remembering but in the end the success of professional wrestling in is the hands of it's superstars.

 

[ProWrestlingFan84]

My favorite memories of the 'attitude' era were the fact of how WCW/WWF and to a degree ECW brought out some of the best times of wrestling as a whole. The best thing was the competition. WCW and WWF competing for the top viewership on Raw and Nitro was great stuff. It's one of the reasons why I wish WWE could have stronger competition so perhaps the product could improve again. The wrestling product as a whole was really on fire and hugely popular. I remember at the time having watched wrestling for probably 6-7 years and then all of the sudden it seemed everyone in school loved wrestling. Also during that time some of the best wrestling games were made by such as WCW/NWO World Tour, Revenge and WWF Wrestlemania 2000 and No Mercy. Maybe if TNA or one day ROH gets that break through period, there might be a huge boom, who knows.

 

[Nada]

It was just how the fans were so into it, in the Attitude era it never felt like the fans were sitting down on their asses, they cared not just for Austin and McMahon but for everyone. Upper midcarders got insane reaction, only guys like Steve Blackman got no reaction.

Today you can count on 1 hand how many people in WWE even get any sort of pop

 

[GameOver]

yeah agree with Nada, it was a total package more then any other era or roster
Every title (WWF, Women's, Tag Team, Light Heavweight, European, Hardcore and IC) were defended regularly if not at every PPV and they had meaning, not just pfft you didn't get a pop so give it to this guy, oh wait we change our mind put it back, na on second thoughts give it to Wade Barret for kicks.
Everyone from jobbers to main eventers all had a role and all had either entertaining or compelling storylines, everyone could speak there own promo's with few restrictions, the in ring action was constant (not always great but constant) and the fans were heavily into that and WCW which helped both sides. and much like the few die hard TNA fans i remember in those days there was heavy WWF sucks WCW rules and vice versa like brand extensions fans were for the first few years of that part.

and above all the focus wasn't spread thin for multiple brands, shows you had RAW and Heat and everyone worked for those two shows and then towards the end Smackdown came along but it wasn't seperate til WCW went belly up. and the best bit of all...

Sunday Night Heat b4 the PPV's. Good Times.... got an extra 1hr of TV free of charge added onto the PPV's which set the stage for the PPV.

 

[doubles69]

Ironically enough, WWE has actually tried to keep with with the times in terms of popular TV culture. It just doesn't seem to be as natural of a fit as it was back in the 90s when the popular theme was "pure chaos" and "politically incorrect."

Think of a lot of their gimmick wrestlers that haven't caught on as well as they thought: Brodus Clay & Fandango (rub to Dancing with the Stars / So You Think You Can Dance), Jillian Hall (rub to American Idol), Zack Ryder (rub to The Jersey Shore), AJ Lee (a rub to nearly every reality TV show, which always seems to have a love-sick puppy nailing every guy on the roster).

They're actually trying to keep things relevant, to their credit. However they just have to realize that the whole "dramatic situation" storylines just don't click with male audiences. We don't care about love stories. We care about good versus evil.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Ironically enough, WWE has actually tried to keep with with the times in terms of popular TV culture. It just doesn't seem to be as natural of a fit as it was back in the 90s when the popular theme was "pure chaos" and "politically incorrect."

Think of a lot of their gimmick wrestlers that haven't caught on as well as they thought: Brodus Clay & Fandango (rub to Dancing with the Stars / So You Think You Can Dance), Jillian Hall (rub to American Idol), Zack Ryder (rub to The Jersey Shore), AJ Lee (a rub to nearly every reality TV show, which always seems to have a love-sick puppy nailing every guy on the roster).

They're actually trying to keep things relevant, to their credit. However they just have to realize that the whole "dramatic situation" storylines just don't click with male audiences. We don't care about love stories. We care about good versus evil.

The issue is not to just try to employ elements of popular culture but to do it right.

Popular culture is not limited to the bazillions of singing shows or reality television in general. They think that by having some characters resemble those of a popular show, the established association will automatically draw the viewers in. Never going to happen.

They need to focus on the underlying patterns which form the modern social values and habits. Of course, this is extremely difficult to do without tons of research done, which I am sure WWE is spending boatloads of money on.

They need to grasp what people like in terms of genre and incorporate it to some extent in their programming and that's what's WWE is doing and successfully at that.

They know exactly what drives children crazy. Catchy songs, bright colors, simple characters, simple storylines, goofy segments, repetition of said elements and overall simplicity of the produced content. They hit that on the head.

The issue is that this does not appeal to adults, or at least most adults. One or two storylines that save some face are not enough to make the whole product pleasing to a wider demographic.

Very, very few of the adults that watch RAW actually enjoy the entire show. And I mean thoroughly enjoy it. Everyone else seems to be watching for bullshit reasons. Look at the "What would make you stop watch the WWE" thread. It's a small sample of what's probably going on on a grander scale.

There are many ways to do this and WWE just isn't doing it right. Don't believe me? Keep a close eye on their numbers. PPVs, ratings, you name it. I might be biased but the numbers aren't.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I remember more people hating wrestling and thinking it was trashy than liking it. It was like nobody was indifferent. Kinda like Jersey Shore or Teen Mom now.

Wrestling in general reflects society. Everything is segmented because of the internet. I can watch midget lucha libre if I want. In 1998, I couldn't. I can listen to Leadbelly if I want, in 1998, probably a lot harder to do.

WWE today is still a top TV draw. It's not as emphatically a top, but it's also not as hated.

Also, it's fucking stupid, like you sit in the bathtub and shit yourself level ******ed to compare 1999 numbers to today's numbers directly. So much has changed. More channels, more ways to view, etc. Damn near every Wrestlemania since Mania 20 has drawn over a million buys in an era where it is so easy to watch for free.

If you ever go back and watch a lot of Attitude Era TV, you realize just how unbearable it was for any human with a brain. It was trash TV, like Jersey Shore. 3 minutes of wrestling followed by a crude segment. I'm not bashing the tude, I'm just a guy who was a fan before (so no rosey glasses) and who has gone back and watched and thought "what the fuck?" through a majority of the older shows.

 

[Moneyinc]

At my middle school, a huge majority of the male's were into wrestling. Pretty much every kid on my sports teams would watch while about 50 percent were near obsessed. Even the ones who had not been into it before people like Kane, and Stone Cold made it popular. Stone Cold especially. I had one friend who literally went around stunning as many people as he could while Stone Cold was doing it one Raw weekly before the rumble. My buddy would kick a kid in the knee so they bent over, and then he would proceed to try to stun them. Ha after he finished we would discuss how good the stunner was executed. There were also certain kids who were higher on the list than others because of various real life reasons like "he was flirting with my girlfriend." I actually remember ONE friend of mine who didn't like wrestling, and even still would watch for Kane. It was so popular at the time that you felt like your were missing out if you didn't watch it.

I don't know what the guy above me is talking about, but in middle school in 1997 in Champaign Illinois, WWF and WCW were HOT.

I still remember specifically finding out certain friends of mine were watching wrestling weekly, while I thought they never would have been. I was in 6th grade in 1997. 6th, 7th, and 8th grade WWF had my middle school by the balls. From what I've heard from older friends from my town is that it was pretty darn popular around the High School at that time too.

One thing that was huge about the Attitude era was the gimmicks these groups were coming up with. The NWO wolf pack had the little Wolf Pac handshake thing that people did where they just touch hands or whatever with other members of the pack. That was big because you felt like you were in a group and it just felt really cool to do it.

Dx's suck it was also huge. At first it was the "Suck it" but not in the form of an "x." Then when they changed the suck it action to crossing your arms and then doing the "suck it," it seriously caught momentum.

The attitude era was great for kids who wanted to be "cool." All that mattered was being cool in middle school and being able to walk around with an attitude, and different slogans and things to bust out at your disposal are huge reasons as to why the WWF's attitude era was so priceless.

The Hulkamaniac era was great for young kids. All of those characters were catered more towards younger children than the Attitude era.

 

[BaconBits]

At my middle school, a huge majority of the male's were into wrestling. Pretty much every kid on my sports teams would watch while about 50 percent were near obsessed. Even the ones who had not been into it before people like Kane, and Stone Cold made it popular. Stone Cold especially. I had one friend who literally went around stunning as many people as he could while Stone Cold was doing it one Raw weekly before the rumble. My buddy would kick a kid in the knee so they bent over, and then he would proceed to try to stun them. Ha after he finished we would discuss how good the stunner was executed. There were also certain kids who were higher on the list than others because of various real life reasons like "he was flirting with my girlfriend." I actually remember ONE friend of mine who didn't like wrestling, and even still would watch for Kane. It was so popular at the time that you felt like your were missing out if you didn't watch it.

I don't know what the guy above me is talking about, but in middle school in 1997 in Champaign Illinois, WWF and WCW were HOT.

I still remember specifically finding out certain friends of mine were watching wrestling weekly, while I thought they never would have been. I was in 6th grade in 1997. 6th, 7th, and 8th grade WWF had my middle school by the balls. From what I've heard from older friends from my town is that it was pretty darn popular around the High School at that time too.

One thing that was huge about the Attitude era was the gimmicks these groups were coming up with. The NWO wolf pack had the little Wolf Pac handshake thing that people did where they just touch hands or whatever with other members of the pack. That was big because you felt like you were in a group and it just felt really cool to do it.

Dx's suck it was also huge. At first it was the "Suck it" but not in the form of an "x." Then when they changed the suck it action to crossing your arms and then doing the "suck it," it seriously caught momentum.

The attitude era was great for kids who wanted to be "cool." All that mattered was being cool in middle school and being able to walk around with an attitude, and different slogans and things to bust out at your disposal are huge reasons as to why the WWF's attitude era was so priceless.

The Hulkamaniac era was great for young kids. All of those characters were catered more towards younger children than the Attitude era.

The Attitude Era appeased teenage sensibilities, and obviously, you were a youngin' whilst it was going on. As were most folks who are so in love with it.

I loved it while it was happening too, but seriously, go back and watch some of it. Not PPVs, just some regular RAWs and Nitros. The shows are almost unwatchable. Thy are total clusterfucks. It's way, way more cartoonish than people realize.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

At my middle school, a huge majority of the male's were into wrestling. Pretty much every kid on my sports teams would watch while about 50 percent were near obsessed. Even the ones who had not been into it before people like Kane, and Stone Cold made it popular. Stone Cold especially. I had one friend who literally went around stunning as many people as he could while Stone Cold was doing it one Raw weekly before the rumble. My buddy would kick a kid in the knee so they bent over, and then he would proceed to try to stun them. Ha after he finished we would discuss how good the stunner was executed. There were also certain kids who were higher on the list than others because of various real life reasons like "he was flirting with my girlfriend." I actually remember ONE friend of mine who didn't like wrestling, and even still would watch for Kane. It was so popular at the time that you felt like your were missing out if you didn't watch it.

I don't know what the guy above me is talking about, but in middle school in 1997 in Champaign Illinois, WWF and WCW were HOT.

I still remember specifically finding out certain friends of mine were watching wrestling weekly, while I thought they never would have been. I was in 6th grade in 1997. 6th, 7th, and 8th grade WWF had my middle school by the balls. From what I've heard from older friends from my town is that it was pretty darn popular around the High School at that time too.

One thing that was huge about the Attitude era was the gimmicks these groups were coming up with. The NWO wolf pack had the little Wolf Pac handshake thing that people did where they just touch hands or whatever with other members of the pack. That was big because you felt like you were in a group and it just felt really cool to do it.

Dx's suck it was also huge. At first it was the "Suck it" but not in the form of an "x." Then when they changed the suck it action to crossing your arms and then doing the "suck it," it seriously caught momentum.

The attitude era was great for kids who wanted to be "cool." All that mattered was being cool in middle school and being able to walk around with an attitude, and different slogans and things to bust out at your disposal are huge reasons as to why the WWF's attitude era was so priceless.

The Hulkamaniac era was great for young kids. All of those characters were catered more towards younger children than the Attitude era.

Yup. "Suck it", "Lay the Smackdown", "Candy ass", "Hell yah" were all common phrases in my high school at the time. nWo shirts. 3:16 shirts. Middle fingers were all out in full force amongst the guys in the school.

But bands like Korn, Limp Bizkit, Slipknot, Rage Against The Machine were also the most popular bands amongst the same guys. Jerry Springer was actually popular back then on TV too. It was no doubt a testosterone fuelled age. And WWE took full advantage of it.

The attitude era wouldn't work today without all of these other factors. I don't know what happened in the late 90s that made teenage angst swell so much. And I don't know what WWE needs to do to get back to another boom period that reflects today's society..

I actually think UFC stole the WWE's chance at their next boom period. By then everyone knew wrestling was fake. There wasn't smut and swearing on TV in the current product. But young males still want to see people get knocked out. And UFC was edgy and it was real. And it blew up big time. Whereas in the past, this type of attention may have gone to professional wrestling.

 

[P. Nut Butters]

I loved the 90s. The late-90s/early 00's especially. What a great time to be alive.

Culturally, I would say that the crash TV, sleazeness etc. had already peaked before the attitude Era and in 1999 it was all-but-dead. Certainly by late '99, the 'attitude' in society was not geared so much towards sleaze, where it really had been in late-95 to 98.

I was thinking about this the other day: In the height of the Attitude Era, the smarks were spitting their dummies because 'that [the Attitude Era] isn't what wrestling should be.' If you could timewarp back to 1998/1999 and browse through chatrooms and forums, you would see the 'smarks' shitting the bed about the Attitude Era, the same way people do about today's product. That's always really astounded me, especially considering how revered that era is today. In 1999, the Attitude Era was reviled by the smarts and now it's the holy grail.

I guess you just can't please 'em.

Another talking point that I've found doesn't really exist all that much since about the mid-2000s, but I've been particularly observant of this over the years since I'm a musician. Wrestling seemed to be 'behind the culture' by a couple of years and I can use the musical cultures as a reference.

In 1993 when Grunge was at it's climax, WWF still felt very 80s with the bright-colored attires, characters and bad hair

In 1998 when the boy bands and the tweeny pop like NSync and Brittany Spears was breaking through, the WWF had finally caught up to the 'grunge' kind of style. A more adult-styled rock was in and the young people were catching on to NuMetal, which was a much different movement than grunge in my professional and personal opinion. In-fact, the only time I saw any sign of mirroring in WWF was with the Headbangers, who listened to Marilyn Manson and Pantera (who were almost out the door at that time) and Slipknot.

I've always felt that wrestling is best served in its own little world. Much like music, it's impact on the 'mainstream' cannot and should not be forced. It should break on through to the other side when the people inside wrestling's bubble get so loud that everybody else can't help but take notice. That's what happened in the late-90s and that's why I don't think it will happen again any time soon.

The wrestling business seems to be trying to force it's way above ground and in my opinion, when you do that, you alienate your core audience - and everybody else who doesn't like your product just wonders what the fuck you're doing.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I loved the 90s. The late-90s/early 00's especially. What a great time to be alive.

Culturally, I would say that the crash TV, sleazeness etc. had already peaked before the attitude Era and in 1999 it was all-but-dead. Certainly by late '99, the 'attitude' in society was not geared so much towards sleaze, where it really had been in late-95 to 98.

I was thinking about this the other day: In the height of the Attitude Era, the smarks were spitting their dummies because 'that [the Attitude Era] isn't what wrestling should be.' If you could timewarp back to 1998/1999 and browse through chatrooms and forums, you would see the 'smarks' shitting the bed about the Attitude Era, the same way people do about today's product. That's always really astounded me, especially considering how revered that era is today. In 1999, the Attitude Era was reviled by the smarts and now it's the holy grail.

I guess you just can't please 'em.

Another talking point that I've found doesn't really exist all that much since about the mid-2000s, but I've been particularly observant of this over the years since I'm a musician. Wrestling seemed to be 'behind the culture' by a couple of years and I can use the musical cultures as a reference.

In 1993 when Grunge was at it's climax, WWF still felt very 80s with the bright-colored attires, characters and bad hair

In 1998 when the boy bands and the tweeny pop like NSync and Brittany Spears was breaking through, the WWF had finally caught up to the 'grunge' kind of style. A more adult-styled rock was in and the young people were catching on to NuMetal, which was a much different movement than grunge in my professional and personal opinion. In-fact, the only time I saw any sign of mirroring in WWF was with the Headbangers, who listened to Marilyn Manson and Pantera (who were almost out the door at that time) and Slipknot.

I've always felt that wrestling is best served in its own little world. Much like music, it's impact on the 'mainstream' cannot and should not be forced. It should break on through to the other side when the people inside wrestling's bubble get so loud that everybody else can't help but take notice. That's what happened in the late-90s and that's why I don't think it will happen again any time soon.

The wrestling business seems to be trying to force it's way above ground and in my opinion, when you do that, you alienate your core audience - and everybody else who doesn't like your product just wonders what the fuck you're doing.

You can't cherry pick like that. There were boy bands in the late 90s, but there was also Limp Bizkit and Kid Rock. Kid Rock/Bizkit and the Tude era are perfect. Loud, raunchy, no real merit, kinda white trashy, and if you go back and actually listen to it, you realize "oh yea, I was 12-16 and that's why this seemed cool...it's kinda dumb...what the fuck does that even mean?"

 

[P. Nut Butters]

You can't cherry pick like that. There were boy bands in the late 90s, but there was also Limp Bizkit and Kid Rock. Kid Rock/Bizkit and the Tude era are perfect. Loud, raunchy, no real merit, kinda white trashy, and if you go back and actually listen to it, you realize "oh yea, I was 12-16 and that's why this seemed cool...it's kinda dumb...what the fuck does that even mean?"

I see what you're saying and I'm not denying any of that. NuMetal did fit nicely. I personally have just always entertained the idea that the culture of early-90s + late-90s wrestling seemed like it could have been a better fit.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I hate when people just use Austin and Hogan because you miss the guy who actually fathered "Attitude in Wrestling"... Brian Pillman.

Pillman was the first guy to take what was going on outside on shows like Springer and Stern and push the boundaries in WCW. The famous "Respect" match with Kevin Sullivan where he unscripted, walked out on a PPV match was the first shot, but within weeks he had caused the first F-Bomb in anger (not counting Davey's "He fell on his fookin arse" for the Shockmaster or Booker's blunder) when he grabbed Bobby Heenan who swore at him, again totally unscripted and unexpected.

Pillman was the guy who went to ECW and threatened to piss in the ring, despite being near crippled and the Philly crowd wanting to kill him for it...and when the time came, a full half hour before Austin 3:16 he gave an equally important debut and later pulled a gun on live TV. The tragedy of Pillman is huge, a) that he overcame cancer to do what he did, only to die that way but more importantly b) that his true part in the creating of a phenomenon is airbrushed over by history... If I get one campaign going it'd be "Pillman for HOF or we riot!"

In 1995 there was a shift to gritty realism in TV and film and more importantly, a general shift in the tolerance towards swearing (In the 80's a Springer episode with multiple bleeps would not even air, by '95 it was a ratings winner.) and a turn away from colorful, safe characters. Look at how bad Batman Forever did compared to Returns...Famously Seven was denied Oscars due to it's "tone", despite the head of the Oscars committee admitting it (and Brad Pitt) should have won. Moviegoers and wrestling fans were ready to go to darker places but media wasn't and that's why 95 WWE was suffering so badly as all they had was camp. Ironically the best character to come out of that era was Waylon Mercy, and very soon we'll see the new version in Bray Wyatt.

Hogan didn't create the NWO, he didn't do anything other than "turn bad". That he then chose to wear black is almost academic as he took on what Nash and Hall had done rather than instigate. Hogan himself was a massive part of the "cheese" of early-mid 90's culture with the terrible "Thunder In Paradise" and "aging surfer dude" persona he was putting out into the media and his cronyism and terrible booking in WCW had got to the point of fans being asked to pay $50 to see him dry humped by THE YETTEEHHH.

So we had a Wrestling biz desperate for change, a man who started it in Brian Pillman, a guy who made the "one man vs the world" mentality popular in Austin and in the NWO a group of renegades who could call the shots over "Billionaire Ted". Exactly what the world was looking for, they were fed up of safe, namby pamby and doing as they were told and for a few years (untill the NWO became parody and Austin aligned with Vince) they could do that vicariously through wrestling. It was suddenly ok to know what "Ho's, Pimping, Money Shot and Puppies" meant, but also to use those terms in everyday life or to tell your boss to "Suck It", so wrestling did change the world in it's way.