What do the WWE see in Dolph Ziggler?

[JDHale]

Dolph Ziggler debuted in WWE almost seven years ago now, and has had various roles in the company. He has been up and down the card, and has been at jobber status all the way up to main event status. Looking at his position now, he would best be described as upper midcard, leaning on the main event border in my opinion. Whether it be you are a casual fan or a hardcore fan, it is easy to see looking over the entirety of his Ziggler career that there has been little consistency throughout, and the WWE have been extremely cautious with whether to let go of the leash on Ziggler and let him loose. He is at the moment having arguably the best push of his career, becoming the Sole Survivor in the Match of the Year (according to Slammys) and beating Luke Harper in a TLC match where he was compared to WWE legends such as HBK. He also scored a victory over Rollins on a Smackdown a few weeks back, which was brought up as a big victory. He then won RollingStones.com wrestler of the year which Booker T stated on commentary Monday and several legends agreed was well deserved. You would think from this that Ziggler would go on to become 'The Man' as the WWE have been calling him, or at least 'a man' in the main event scene.

However on Monday we saw a change in his direction. It started off with him losing the IC Championship on Raw to Barrett, where even though he was made to look strong it was still a cheap loss and a hit to his momentum, and it ended with him being fired with Rowan and Ryback, which depending on how long he is kept off of tv could seriously harm his push (check Reigns for evidence). After the firing it made me question what WWE see Ziggler as.

To me, I think he's best described as a secret weapon in the WWE's eyes. He is someone who can make anyone they want to push look like a serious threat due to his selling ability, but he's also a guy that they can give a win to, in order to make most the audience go home with something to smile about if others lose. I feel like they had finally realized he also has the potential to be a main eventer recently, but I have some suspicions, the main being (and this is just pure speculation on my part!) that I feel they are only giving him this push to try make him sign a new contract as if he hasn't resigned a new deal his current contract runs out in a month or two if I'm correct. I hope if my guessing is right he does sign a new deal and he gets given a shot at the WWE World Heavyweight Championship later this year, maybe even at Wrestlemania if wishes come true.

What do you guys think and how would you best describe how the WWE sees Ziggler? Finally, do you think Ziggler will ever win the WWE World Heavyweight Championship or is he gonna spend his career in the midcard? Please let me know!

 

[TheICChampion]

I think Ziggler is in the "Hell of a Hand" category that Jericho talked about in one of his books. Basically he's in the category of being a former World Champion like Jericho was, but now they feel they can put him in a match with anyone and know it will be a decent match, they can give him some mid-card titles, but forget about seeing the World title again anytime soon. Like Jericho, it's not really Ziggler's fault, but unlike Jericho, it's because Ziggler keeps getting injured. Wouldn't you be a bit cautious about how you push someone when you don't know if or when he's going to get injured again?


That all being said, I believe that Ziggler can make it to the main event scene, perhaps even winning the World title again at some point, but it's a long way off. There's nothing really wrong with being in the mid-card, because not everyone can be a main event superstar, but I'm sure that sooner or later Ziggler will hopefully show that he can be relied on as a main-eventer.

 

[chuckmdubya]

Ziggler is pretty much the top face now. I say that because I think he is the guy the fans most want to see, it seems most would rather see him than Cena. Problem is he has no heel counterpart to help him grow. In times where Wrestling legends are born there is always a great heel and face combo. Hogan had several talented anatagonists to help push him, Heenan, Andre, Savage, and even Slaughter. Austin had McMahon, Rock, HHH, and Taker. Ziggler needs a charismatic villain to create a career feud with and he just doesn't have it.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

It's funny you keep comparing him to HBK, because in one glaring aspect it's true. They're both good at making other people look good. That doesn't bode well for main event title wins though. Again, just look at HBK.

The most glaring difference between the two is mic skills. When HBK spoke, people listened and cared. He could hold an audience very well. Anyone who says DZ is better than just decent with the mic is either an obvious mark or delusional. That's one reason his current push has been so good. How much has he really spoken on a live mic? Barely at all. Now maybe in time his mic skills will get better (they're certainly better than a few years ago), but as of right now they're not good enough to hold an audience. Especially being a face. When a face chases a championship and then finally wins it the payoff is over. The biggest way to hold an audience beyond that is to use your mic skills to keep the audience invested in you as a character. He has never shown the ability to do that.

I would love to see how the roster would shake out if they started unscripting promos again. That goes for everyone, not just DZ.

 

[JDHale]

I think Ziggler is in the "Hell of a Hand" category that Jericho talked about in one of his books. Basically he's in the category of being a former World Champion like Jericho was.. Like Jericho, it's not really Ziggler's fault, but unlike Jericho, it's because Ziggler keeps getting injured. Wouldn't you be a bit cautious about how you push someone when you don't know if or when he's going to get injured again?
That all being said, I believe that Ziggler can make it to the main event scene, perhaps even winning the World title again at some point, but it's a long way off. There's nothing really wrong with being in the mid-card, because not everyone can be a main event superstar, but I'm sure that sooner or later Ziggler will hopefully show that he can be relied on as a main-eventer.

That may well be the best way to describe his current situation, props to you! In terms of being cautious because he's essentially injury prone I'm not entirely sure, because I don't think he gets injured that often. I know he got the two concussions that stopped his first main event rise, but I don't remember him ever being injured before that, however that is likely me being biased and not remembering/being bothered to research into it. Just to finish, I think the midcard is good for most, but again I always see Ziggler above that. I guess it's just the waiting game now anyways! Thanks for your opinion!

Ziggler is pretty much the top face now. I say that because I think he is the guy the fans most want to see, it seems most would rather see him than Cena. Problem is he has no heel counterpart to help him grow. In times where Wrestling legends are born there is always a great heel and face combo. Hogan had several talented anatagonists to help push him, Heenan, Andre, Savage, and even Slaughter. Austin had McMahon, Rock, HHH, and Taker. Ziggler needs a charismatic villain to create a career feud with and he just doesn't have it.

I can't say he's above Cena as the majority of casual fans are still loving him whether you like it or not. However since Survivor Series, Ziggler has become a favorite in the area I live (but like I said mostly second to Cena), especially to the kids which can only be good news to him. I agree that he needs the right guy to feud with, but to add to that it needs to be a high profile match on a big PPV too in my opinion. He has potential to become a legend, but in the end it comes down to how they want him to be used. I'm hoping he gets the top face spot as he's definitely a fan favorite now to casual and hardcore fans alike, but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets the Jericho spot that TheICChampion mentioned throughout his time in the WWE. I'm hoping he gets what he deserves.

It's funny you keep comparing him to HBK, because in one glaring aspect it's true. They're both good at making other people look good. That doesn't bode well for main event title wins though. Again, just look at HBK.

The most glaring difference between the two is mic skills. When HBK spoke, people listened and cared. He could hold an audience very well. Anyone who says DZ is better than just decent with the mic is either an obvious mark or delusional. That's one reason his current push has been so good. How much has he really spoken on a live mic? Barely at all. Now maybe in time his mic skills will get better (they're certainly better than a few years ago), but as of right now they're not good enough to hold an audience. Especially being a face. When a face chases a championship and then finally wins it the payoff is over. The biggest way to hold an audience beyond that is to use your mic skills to keep the audience invested in you as a character. He has never shown the ability to do that.

I would love to see how the roster would shake out if they started unscripting promos again. That goes for everyone, not just DZ.

I just want to state that they compared him to HBK on the commentary team at TLC and it wasn't me putting my opinion into my writing. I do agree with you in that we can't say he's better than decent on the mic, but that's because we haven't heard him enough as you also said. Now that might work in his favor you would assume as we consider him just decent, but then again I think guys like Ziggler and Bryan (and Cesaro and Ryback in recent times) have an advantage with the mic with what they're saying instead of how they say it. What I mean by that is I think they could just talk about their passion for the business and how they struggled to reach the point they're at and are being prevented from being the best wrestler and the crowd would be invested into them. It's not something you necessarily need the 'right voice' for and it's something Ziggler has shown on the App in promos but not in the middle of the ring with a live mic. I also agree with you that there should be less scripted promos, and it would definately make for interesting viewing to see how they would react. Thanks for getting involved!

 

[Prince Vee]

When's the last time he had a feud with a superstar or a stable? When is the last time he had a good storyline.

In my personal view I think WWE is just using him to give some good matches on Raw and Smack down and to make the shows entertaining. They probably are using him only to give matches not storylines.

So I don't think he'll even get into the WWE WHW title scene with a lot of contenders ahead!

 

[d_henderson1810]

When's the last time he had a feud with a superstar or a stable? When is the last time he had a good storyline.

In my personal view I think WWE is just using him to give some good matches on Raw and Smack down and to make the shows entertaining. They probably are using him only to give matches not storylines.

So I don't think he'll even get into the WWE WHW title scene with a lot of contenders ahead!

He reminds me of a modern-day Chris Benoit (not that he will do anything to his family). Let me explain:-

I took an interest in Benoit's career prior to his crimes, and I noticed that he was always considered a very good worker, who put on a show every week, but was lacking on the mike.

Also, I don't know if you remember, but Chris Benoit was a world-class seller of a move. He showed pain after a move.

So, in many ways, Ziggler has a lot of Benoit's wrestling qualities. He gets the match in the middle of the show, it is given time, and both men come out looking better after the match. Both were great sellers.

Both Benoit and Ziggler were/are admired for their workrate and match performance. Both had runs with the World Title, but then seemed to be relegated to the mid-cards, and were used to both to do jobs or get a win, but make their opponent look good as well. Whenever either wrestled, it was often the best match on the card, and even made a poor PPV bearable, as there was at least one match that didn't stink.

Too bad there could never have been a Benoit v Ziggler feud. I think they would have had some world-class matches.

So, no, I wouldn't compare Ziggler to HBK. I think he is more like Chris Benoit the wrestler (not the man), in style and what he brings to the table.

 

[Mudlup50]

Let me just say this, I think there are 5 people who can win the Rumble this year at this point.

1. Reigns-If they aren't changing direction on him(which would be stupid) then he's going to win
2. Bryan-If they know Reigns isn't ready and want to give Bryan a bigger rub than he needs, then he will
3. Orton-They might just give us Orton/Lesnar at Mania featuring a cash in by Seth, thus reigniting their feud for Extreme Rules
4. Ryback-They gave him a promo last week, he's been a big part of WWE since his return and helped take the authority out of power, than he gets fired...which leads to
5. Dolph-Last week I would have laughed at you for suggesting him winning but losing the IC title, being fired for taking the Authority out of power. If he wins the Rumble(with his endurance) he'd have an easy feud with the Authority, he's already over but this would only help and then he'd have feuds with Orton, Rollins, Cena and a few others ready to go.

I think Ziggler might be getting pushed because he's going to Mania. Will he, I don't know. But my money right now is on him or Ryback

 

[MERPER]

They see the perfect/ideal mid-card guy and that's what he is.

His matches are among the top-2 every night. He can have always go long to fill time, he has fun moves and, being mid-card he can either perform with other mid-carders or occasionally move up vs. a top-tier guy when the story calls for it or injuries to other roster guys occurs.

He is also the very best at selling injury and opposition moves, which helps build other guys on the roster.

Simply put, he is very versatile for them because he can legitimately wrestle anyone on the roster, put on a good match, build his brand or theirs and despite being a face now, can also turn heel IMHO.

 

[JDHale]

When's the last time he had a feud with a superstar or a stable? When is the last time he had a good storyline.

In my personal view I think WWE is just using him to give some good matches on Raw and Smack down and to make the shows entertaining. They probably are using him only to give matches not storylines.

So I don't think he'll even get into the WWE WHW title scene with a lot of contenders ahead!

In answer to your question he's been in a feud with the Authority the past few monthss and before that he had a feud with The Miz and Cesaro to an extent, although that was nothing to shout about in all honesty. I do agree with your point of view however in that WWE do use him mostly for good matches, which is probably why he became a huge player after the Survivor Series match.

The realistic side of me also agrees with you that he won't get into the WWE World Heavyweight Title scene, but then the massive fan side of me wants to think that he has a possible shot in the near future with him being a main character in the Authority angle. The fan side of me would also argue that he doesn't have a lot of contenders ahead of him also, but with no facts to back it up other than personal views and assumptions I can't really say definitively. Some good alternate points though, thanks for adding your views on this!

He reminds me of a modern-day Chris Benoit (not that he will do anything to his family). Let me explain:-

I took an interest in Benoit's career prior to his crimes, and I noticed that he was always considered a very good worker, who put on a show every week, but was lacking on the mike.
Also, I don't know if you remember, but Chris Benoit was a world-class seller of a move. He showed pain after a move.
So, in many ways, Ziggler has a lot of Benoit's wrestling qualities. He gets the match in the middle of the show, it is given time, and both men come out looking better after the match. Both were great sellers.
Both Benoit and Ziggler were/are admired for their workrate and match performance. Both had runs with the World Title, but then seemed to be relegated to the mid-cards, and were used to both to do jobs or get a win, but make their opponent look good as well. Whenever either wrestled, it was often the best match on the card, and even made a poor PPV bearable, as there was at least one match that didn't stink.
Too bad there could never have been a Benoit v Ziggler feud. I think they would have had some world-class matches.
So, no, I wouldn't compare Ziggler to HBK. I think he is more like Chris Benoit the wrestler (not the man), in style and what he brings to the table.

I have to be honest that what I remember of Benoit is sketchy but I was a big fan of his as a kid (but got freaked out when I heard he murdered his family) Having said that what you said is all true. Obviously when I was younger I didn't think of Benoit as a seller, just like kids now don't think Ziggler is a great seller, but you are right. I entirely agree with you in the Benoit-Ziggler comparison in terms of career and purpose in the company, at least from what I remember of him anyway. Great comment, bravo!

Let me just say this, I think there are 5 people who can win the Rumble this year at this point.

5. Dolph-Last week I would have laughed at you for suggesting him winning but losing the IC title, being fired for taking the Authority out of power. If he wins the Rumble(with his endurance) he'd have an easy feud with the Authority, he's already over but this would only help and then he'd have feuds with Orton, Rollins, Cena and a few others ready to go.

I think Ziggler might be getting pushed because he's going to Mania. Will he, I don't know. But my money right now is on him or Ryback

I agree with you in terms of 4 names involved but not Ryback, purely because I see it a big possibility that he challenges Rusev for the title at WrestleMania but that's just my thoughts. I still feel Ziggler is ahead of Reigns but I might be crazy, although I did say somewhere that if he were to drop the title to Harper he would become favorite to win (before Bryan returned). Of course that lead to Barrett winning and Ziggler being fired, so whether he gets into the match is not certain either. Either way at least the Rumble is not predictable anymore! Thanks for the views!

They see the perfect/ideal mid-card guy and that's what he is.
His matches are among the top-2 every night. He can have always go long to fill time, he has fun moves and, being mid-card he can either perform with other mid-carders or occasionally move up vs. a top-tier guy when the story calls for it or injuries to other roster guys occurs.
He is also the very best at selling injury and opposition moves, which helps build other guys on the roster.
Simply put, he is very versatile for them because he can legitimately wrestle anyone on the roster, put on a good match, build his brand or theirs and despite being a face now, can also turn heel IMHO.

This pretty much sums up his role now and I guess if he doesn't get put higher up the card then at least he will be featured. Your honest opinion is a very respectable one!

 

[Aquaman6686]

The problem here is that if Vince doesn't see "it" in you, you will NEVER make it to the top for any length of time. Dolph Ziggler is THE top babyface in the company next to Daniel Bryan. If those two were the last two in the Royal Rumble, I think we'd hear one of the most evenly divided crowds in WWE history. But Vince doesn't see "it" in Dolph Ziggler. He sees a midcard talent and will do everything in his (very substantial) power to keep Ziggler there. Every time WWE starts to push Ziggler back to the top, Vince pulls the rug out from under him. It's also laughable that Ziggler has been labelled as "injury prone" after ONE injury. Randy Orton, Batista, John Cena, Triple H, Shawn Michaels...any top star in the industry has missed substantial time due to injuries at one point or another, with Chris Jericho being the only exception I can think of. Vince will continue to keep Ziggler down as long as he can. It's also no secret that Triple H dislikes Dolph Ziggler. He only wants his pet projects to succeed. Anyone that comes from the "Triple H Era" of NXT is guaranteed a monster push, regardless of their talent or lack thereof, while anyone from before then isn't good enough in Triple H's eyes. With any luck Dolph Ziggler's phenomenal talent will overcome the Powers That Be and their bias against him. But it's a long shot.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Two concussions is nothing to sneeze at. Especially the way DZ flops around the ring.

 

[Vader]

I simply don't see how anyone who's character is a 90% ripoff of a midcarder from the late 90s can be the face of the company. Ziggler needs a gimmick adjustment and then maybe...

 

[stonecoldstunner]

Dolph Ziggler is a guy who gets it. He is the whole package...Great charisma, great in the ring, fantastic work ethic...knows his role in the ring and and stays out of trouble. Very intelligent too. His strongest trait is making others look good, so WWE takes advanatage of that. He always has the first match, and 90% of the time it's the best match of the night. I think he is best suited for upper mid card and be a force for the IC or US championships for the next 3-5 years.

 

[JDHale]

The problem here is that if Vince doesn't see "it" in you, you will NEVER make it to the top for any length of time. Dolph Ziggler is THE top babyface in the company next to Daniel Bryan. If those two were the last two in the Royal Rumble, I think we'd hear one of the most evenly divided crowds in WWE history. But Vince doesn't see "it" in Dolph Ziggler. He sees a midcard talent and will do everything in his (very substantial) power to keep Ziggler there. Every time WWE starts to push Ziggler back to the top, Vince pulls the rug out from under him. It's also laughable that Ziggler has been labelled as "injury prone" after ONE injury. Randy Orton, Batista, John Cena, Triple H, Shawn Michaels...any top star in the industry has missed substantial time due to injuries at one point or another, with Chris Jericho being the only exception I can think of. Vince will continue to keep Ziggler down as long as he can. It's also no secret that Triple H dislikes Dolph Ziggler. He only wants his pet projects to succeed. Anyone that comes from the "Triple H Era" of NXT is guaranteed a monster push, regardless of their talent or lack thereof, while anyone from before then isn't good enough in Triple H's eyes. With any luck Dolph Ziggler's phenomenal talent will overcome the Powers That Be and their bias against him. But it's a long shot.

I don't know whether any of this is true but I honestly think if Ziggler starts earning the WWE more money he'll rise to the top regardless. I don't know what it's like elsewhere but ever since Survivor Series the amount of people in my area that support him is ridiculous compared to prior the event, which can only be good as concerns him. In terms of Vince and HHH disliking him I think it can only be called an assumption, but if there is truth in it then I don't know what they're problem is. In fact you would think Triple H would love Ziggler as he used to come out to his amateur wrestling matches to his theme or at least I was told. Anyways I'm a big fan of his so I'm pulliing for him to reach the top as I am for quite a few others too at the moment (BnB, Reigns, Rollins, Ambrose, Cesaro, Miz/Mizdow, Rusev to name most)

Two concussions is nothing to sneeze at. Especially the way DZ flops around the ring.

We've already continued the concussion discussion as I am calling it on another thread and I'm open to the fact I could be very wrong and they can be a lot more career threatening then I myself realize. And if it is the case I'm happy to admit you were right. Great discussion though, thanks a bunch!

I simply don't see how anyone who's character is a 90% ripoff of a midcarder from the late 90s can be the face of the company. Ziggler needs a gimmick adjustment and then maybe...

Well I don't remember the late 90's as I was only just alive, but in terms of myself and younger people who support him I think it's the simple never give up and passion for the business which is putting him as a fan favorite. His matches certainly help to as he is one of the best storytellers in the business, and the younger fanbase are fond of him on that reason alone. But I'm not saying you're wrong, and maybe he does need a gimmick adjustment. In my opinion Ziggler is one of a few guys who can say they're the best at what they do, and just being passionate and saying he sets the bar puts him ahead of the rest for many viewers who didn't see the 90s, which is a lot nowadays.

Dolph Ziggler is a guy who gets it. He is the whole package...Great charisma, great in the ring, fantastic work ethic...knows his role in the ring and and stays out of trouble. Very intelligent too. His strongest trait is making others look good, so WWE takes advanatage of that. He always has the first match, and 90% of the time it's the best match of the night. I think he is best suited for upper mid card and be a force for the IC or US championships for the next 3-5 years.

I feel you've perfectly answered the question so again props! This is indeed what I think WWE sees him as. I would say he's also someone who they appreciate being there simply because he is so versatile as another commenter has said. Good points!

 

[Vader]

Well I don't remember the late 90's as I was only just alive, but in terms of myself and younger people who support him I think it's the simple never give up and passion for the business which is putting him as a fan favorite. His matches certainly help to as he is one of the best storytellers in the business, and the younger fanbase are fond of him on that reason alone. But I'm not saying you're wrong, and maybe he does need a gimmick adjustment. In my opinion Ziggler is one of a few guys who can say they're the best at what they do, and just being passionate and saying he sets the bar puts him ahead of the rest for many viewers who didn't see the 90s, which is a lot nowadays.
!

It's just a ripoff when he has the exact same look, finisher, and mannerisms as Billy Gunn.

I'm not discrediting Ziggler. He's an athletic guy and talented. More than likely this wasn't Ziggler's decision. But he needs a gimmick change in my opinion. Wrestling is largely internet driven and these kind of things are common knowledge these days. There have always been comparisons that were stretches like Goldberg/Austin, but Ziggler winning the title is no different than if the Renegade in WCW held the belt.

He may still get a push, but for him to get the credit he deserves as a performer and make a legacy he needs his own gimmick.

 

[hollowpoint]

The WWE sees Dolph Ziggler as a farm hand..someone who is reliable, who always puts on good matches no matter the opponent. That seems like a great thing on the surface, but in WWE Superstar terms, that's literally the road to obscurity and stagnation. If you think of him in terms of what Y2J was you can put him in that same mold. He will get an opportunity to be in the main event picture but he wont be a main stay. Dolph is seen as more of a pull in case of emergency Superstar. Cesaro is another Superstar that reminds me of this.