Were Cena or Shawn ever THIS over?

[bigbootydaddyV]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKFyI7pqqLg&feature=related

Ok so i was on youtube earlier just surfing around and came across the Lex Luger "i'll be your hero" video and it got me thinking... Who has been THAT over since Lex Luger... Obviously the more I thought about it I did come to the conclusion that Rock and Stone Cold were definitely over much more than this, but who else? Were Shawn or Cena ever THIS over? I mean Lex Luger had crazy momentum from the 4th of July to Summerslam and even up to Mania. We all know he screwed it up by having a big mouth (just as well because Bret got to go over instead, personal bias there, sorry). But the buzz around Luger that summer was like nothing I've ever seen. I mean he literally toured around the Lex express and was one of the biggest things in wrestling since Hogan... you can see in the video how many kids looked up to him and just everyone in general was in Luger's corner it seemed like. Unlike shawn or cena who manage to draw the ire of every male over 18, it didn't seem like Lex had at this time, if anything he was the closest thing to Hulk Hogan the WWF had till SCSA and the Rock. People ultimately love shawn michael's matches because you knew you'd see something great, but I don't think the character ever got over like Luger had in an instant on the 4th of July. Shawn had the better career and was relevant much longer, there is no doubting it, as has Cena, but have either of them been as big as Lex was on the Lex express? What do you all think?

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

If you mean over in terms of being a fan favorite, I'd say cena is certainly that now, I wouldn't even hesitate. Eerything in the company is focused solely on him justn as it was for lex at that time. I'd also like to say that orton is not far away, if not on that level right now. Orton got so over in such a short space of time, it was really unpresidented and now orton cant put a foot wrong whatever he does.

May be just me but I'd certainly say cena is as big in WWE now as lex was then, and like I said orton is not far behind...

 

[HBKStreakbuster]

Jeff Hardy was THIS over during his hay day...little kids idolized him and wore his gear, women loved him and wanted to F him, and guys got behind him because of his enormous talent and avg joe look...When Hardy's music hit the place went bananas...end of story.
WWE releasing him was a freaking HUGE HUGE HUGE mistake. He has 8 of the top 10 best sellers, and now they have a pathetic Miz, no talent geek bringing nothing to the cash register

 

[Foshinzo]

Even with the Lex-Express, he wasn't as over as HBK was at his height. Luger might have had the bus for a few months, but did he ever get to pull off an iron man match in the finale of a Wrestlemania, while making one of the most memorable entrances of all-time? No. Luger was definitely over after he scoop slammed Yokozuna, don't get me wrong because I'm not saying that. All I'm saying is that even at his height, he wasn't even as over with kids as Bret was. Bret didn't have a bus, but I remember that me and all of my friends loved Bret, and we never even talked about Luger. The bus was more because WWF wanted him to be over, not because he really was. This was an era where, for a few years, the WWF was desperate for a Hogan replacement, since Hogan was considered too old and washed up. Therefore, I'm just saying that the crowd didn't really like him as much as WWF wanted you to think, even at his height. He was over, like I said there is no doubt about that, but he was not the biggest star at that time. I think a lot of it too was that he feuded with Yokozuna, who was the biggest heel at that time. If it wasn't for Yokozuna, I'd bet that he would have stayed the Narcissist, or at least wouldn't have tied the Rumble with Bret and gotten a 'Mania match. But, that's just my opinion as how I remember it.

 

[drobs85]

Jeff Hardy was THIS over during his hay day...little kids idolized him and wore his gear, women loved him and wanted to F him, and guys got behind him because of his enormous talent and avg joe look...When Hardy's music hit the place went bananas...end of story.
WWE releasing him was a freaking HUGE HUGE HUGE mistake. He has 8 of the top 10 best sellers, and now they have a pathetic Miz, no talent geek bringing nothing to the cash register

Hardy left, he wasn't released. He quit! "In his hay day". That was just last year as far as Hardy goes. Cena definitely is now, along with Orton. And Triple H 5 years ago. But those are a hand few included with the obvious ones in The Rock, stone Cold, and HBK. I'd also say Bret Hart 96-97. But Luger did get over huge in that time.

 

[No Count Pup]

This is an excellent topic. Lex Luger was incredibly over from the summer of 1993 through Wrestlemania 10. I don't think The Undertaker, Bret Hart, Randy Orton, Triple H, Dusty Rhodes, or even Ric Flair were ever as over as Lex Luger during that time.

Luger was getting the type of responses that only Hulk Hogan, The Ultimate Warrior, Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin, The Rock, and John Cena have received in the past 30 years.

Unfortunately, Luger joins a group of such wrestlers as Razor Ramon, Jake "The Snake" Roberts, Mr. Perfect, and Eddie Guerrero who never reached their full potential. Imagine how much more entertaining wrestling would have been in the 80s and 90s if those grapplers were a part of the main event scene.

 

[In & Out]

very interesting.....i truthfully can't answer this question but i can offer different insight on it......i was 12 at this time and i HATED this gimmick on luger.....it was corny beyond corny......call me crazy but i preferred the narcissist gimmick over this one.....the whole mirrors thing, the entrance, and the steel plate in his forearm were all over the top but i loved it....bret hart was my favorite wrestler and when luger attacked him @ the press conference i thought THIS IS GONNA BE AWESOME!!!!.....nwa luger and wcw total package luger prior to this era were even better in my eyes than the usa luger......call it bias, youth, and being naive but i hated that luger so much that i don't think i realized how over he was......thinking back on it now i can see he got super promotion but i don't remember how the fans took to him....i just remember me and my brother hating every minute of it.......including the yokozuna "slam"..........he did come in on a helicopter, become the # 1 contender by doing nothing, and ride around in a bus though....lol....maybe that speaks volumes in itself.

 

["The Instant Classic"]

I see a major piece missing from this puzzle. Heels can be "over" too. So with that in mind I'd say that Chris Jericho was over almost as much as Luger was. From his heel turn in 2008, Jericho was instantly able to have the fan loathe him. Here's video proof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFf9u63q6Ws

This video shows how bad fans hated him. If thats not "over" as a heel then the wrestling industry is screwed... cause a heel will never get that kind of reaction

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Austin has been mentioned, which is a plus. He's the most over anyone has ever been. Ever. Period.

Nobody has mentioned 2001-2002 Kurt Angle yet. In the wake of September 11th, pro wrestling once again stepped up to provide the cathartic escape from the reality of coordinated terrorist attacks and 3000+ innocent civilians dead. The embodiment of that was Kurt Angle.

WWE was so tasteful about it too. The heel in this case was Steve Austin. WWE didn't try to shotgun a Muhammad Hassan character to exploit the attacks - they respected the fans enough to put a solid performer like Austin in there to work a great feud with Angle, and just let Kurt run with the patriotism. Kurt's promos during that time were heartwrenching and real. He invested so much of his own true emotion into them, and people responded.

Finally, when Angle made Austin tap out to the Ankle Lock, it made all American wrestling fans once again feel that there was nothing we couldn't accomplish, and that through hard work and dedication, we could make these terrorists tap out to us. Austin was brilliant, but good God Angle was so over. Fans at ringside cried when he won, and so did I, not so much because of Kurt, but because of what it meant for America. It was an amazing moment, and he was more over then than Lex was in the early 90's.

 

[bigbootydaddyV]

Even with the Lex-Express, he wasn't as over as HBK was at his height. Luger might have had the bus for a few months, but did he ever get to pull off an iron man match in the finale of a Wrestlemania, while making one of the most memorable entrances of all-time? No. Luger was definitely over after he scoop slammed Yokozuna, don't get me wrong because I'm not saying that. All I'm saying is that even at his height, he wasn't even as over with kids as Bret was. Bret didn't have a bus, but I remember that me and all of my friends loved Bret, and we never even talked about Luger. The bus was more because WWF wanted him to be over, not because he really was. This was an era where, for a few years, the WWF was desperate for a Hogan replacement, since Hogan was considered too old and washed up. Therefore, I'm just saying that the crowd didn't really like him as much as WWF wanted you to think, even at his height. He was over, like I said there is no doubt about that, but he was not the biggest star at that time. I think a lot of it too was that he feuded with Yokozuna, who was the biggest heel at that time. If it wasn't for Yokozuna, I'd bet that he would have stayed the Narcissist, or at least wouldn't have tied the Rumble with Bret and gotten a 'Mania match. But, that's just my opinion as how I remember it.

I was the same way, I was and still am a HUGE bret fan so back then I was hoping for Bret over Luger at mania. But at the same time, I do remember going ape shit when Luger turned on the 4th of July and slammed Yoko... I was definitely behind him going into summerslam and was hugely disappointed he didn't win the title. As for Shawn headlining Mania let's not forget Luger was poised to have a HUGE WM win if he didn't screw it up with his big mouth. Cena is pretty over right now as is Orton but neither had the company riding on their back... I don't know, maybe it was the fact that I was young and couldn't see what ppl really thought of Lex but it seemed like he was on top of the world at the time with everyone behind him.

 

[neildittmar]

No, because at several points in the video linked Luger is sporting an incredible black fanny pack. Want to get over with the kids and families as big and strong while still showing your sensitive side? You gotta be pimping the fanny pack for all to see!

In all seriousness though...

I'm not sure about HBK, but Cena is definitely this over. I would even say, without hesitation or second thought, that he's much moreso. As for what's specifically highlighted in the video, namely the tireless touring, being swamped by fans, and particularly the attention paid to sick children, Cena has been there and done that for a number of years now. While not quite in the category of a Hulk Hogan, Cena is well on his way to getting there.

While the WWF made a good run of it at the time, Lex Luger was simply never that over.

 

[The Calgary Kid]

It's hard to say in retrospect, as I didn't really get to have the mark-out moment over the "slam". A relative worked for WWF at the time and told me that weekend what was going to happen before it did. It was still exciting, nonetheless, but probably not as much as for some people. This probably didn't allow me to jump on the bandwagon quite as enthusiastically. The whole Lex Express thing was extraordinary, as it had never happened before and probably never will again. Vince really wanted to replace Hogan at that point, and the "All American Hero" was a logical step, on some levels. They couldn't do it with Bret, as he is obviously Canadian. I have always hated the whole "American hero" thing and the "USA" chants (anyone remember fans chanting "USA" for Bret when he faced Hakushi?). Incorporating that into Bulldog's heel turn when he was teaming with Luger was a stroke of genius, in my mind. In retrospect, it's probably a good thing that it didn't work out, as the similarity to Hogan's gimmick was hardly subtle and it was probably a good thing for the industry that the next face of wrestling wasn't cut from the same cloth. They totally backtracked on the idea though, and despite all of the hype, Luger ultimately didn't pull off what he was supposed to. I sort of wonder if that realization had anything to do with it.

I think that Vince probably learned his lesson at that point and future "faces of the company" haven't had the same heraldry as Lex and the fanfare for Bret's win hasn't been replicated, either. Let's face it, not everyone that they want to push works out, for one reason or another, and when it doesn't happen, we're left scratching our heads. It makes their logic look flawed, and can even fill people with doubt the next time someone seems poised to assume the role. From then on, people like Austin, Rock and Cena have had to put themselves over without that sort of assist.

I was disappointed when Lex didn't win the title from Yoko, but Bret was my favorite wrestler and I was obviously ten times happier that he won it. If you watch the end of WMX, Vince is incredibly over the top about Bret winning the title being "the dawning of a new era in the World Wrestling Federation" and whatnot, treating the win as though it was Bret's first WWF title, clearly signaling what I mentioned in terms of Hogan's "replacement" as the face of the company. If you watch the Bret Hart DVD, he says something about it and how he was ultimately chosen over Lex, saying something along the lines of "everyone, including Lex, knew it wasn't going to work".

Lex was incredibly over, and it really is surprising that he wasn't able to capitalize on that. He was pushed extremely hard. I'm not sure if he was more over than HBK or Cena, but they certainly never got a bus to "campaign" across the country for a title shot. There obviously was a reason for them halting his push, or why "everyone knew it wasn't going to work" or whatever. I have heard the rumors about Lex supposedly revealing "spoilers" and that derailing him, but I'm not aware of the specifics. Can anyone fill me in there?

All the same, Luger is certainly worthy of a spot in the HOF this year if they go that route, infamous T-shirt promo notwithstanding.

 

[bigbootydaddyV]

I believe the rumor is lex got drunk and let go to ppl that he was going to go over as the new champ (keep in mind kayfabe was much bigger than) and so this caused them to switch to Bret and the rest was history... funny how some instances can change fates so drastically, even in the scripted world of pro wrestling.

As for the guy who posted the Y2J video... I agree about Heels being able to be over, jericho was definitely one of the best at this