Lex Luger your thoughts

[relentless1]

Lex was a very serviceable member of the Main Event scene in late 90s WCW, especially vs the nWo, they needed somebody to lead the charge physically since Sting was secluded in the rafters and Luger did a great job at that, definitely the right man for the job. His stint in the face Wolfpack was dumb ill admit that but in the heel Wolfpack he was a perfect fit, I always like Lex better as a heel anyways, its just too bad he had a bicep injury that put him out of that group way too early. His Total Package stuff was good too although he didn't need to feud with Sting more so the up and comers were best suited to get the rub from him and I saw good potential in the Tag Team he formed with Buff Bagwell towards the end of WCW, they could have gotten some mileage out of that had WCW survived. Didnt much care for him in the WWF but thats only because they tried to stick Hogans gimmick with him and it didn't really work. All in all id say I liked Lex, I still make sure he's in the roster of the WWE Smackdown/2k series one way or another.

 

[Goldie]

True that he put Luger over when he first came in but when it came down to dropping the belt Flair was his own booker. While I like both guys Flair only offered to drop the belt when he was playing for a new contract and thrown off the booking committee. When he was told to drop the belt but said he was only going to drop it to his friend Sting he should have been stripped. You can't have wrestlers booking, too much ego involved.

I think it was Flairs book when Jim Herd was playing hardline in contract negotiations.... Herd wanted Flair to drop the belt to Luger, but Flair refused, believing that Sting or Barry Windham were more deserving.

As it happened Flair left for WWE in 1991 without losing the title officially, and Luger won the vacant title.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Very true. Flair had his chances Bash 88 Starrcade 88 even in 1990 and countless other events and he never dropped it to Luger. Also held down Vader. I Think Luger was MORE than capable of holding the belt. Just check out the audience when they THOUGHT he won the belt over Flair at the Bash.

How did Flair hold down Vader ?? WCW chose Luger to succeed to Flair as champ in 1991 because they thought Sting failed they year before, Flair was leaving for WWE, he had no say in Vader being bypassed.

Likewise, Flair was WWE champion when WCW chose to go back to Sting when Luger gave his notice.

Flair was still in WWE when Vader was chosen to be champ after Sting (and a brief charity run for Ron Simmons that wasn't worth much except a feel good moment). When Flair returned to WCW the company chose Sid Justice to replace Vader, Flair was working part time as a mid carder, fueding with Barry Whyndam & Rick Rude while wrestling a part time schedule.

Flair had no stroke when WCW came to him to be champ again in late 93, they felt Vader wasn't successful enough (most of his run being when Flair was in WWE) and Sid (who unlike both Sting & Luger was never one of Flair's close friends behind the scenes) was fired, WCW went back to him because of his name recognition and because other than Sting (who had feuded extensively with Vader) they didn't feel they had another credible main eventer.

Flair did play a major role in recruiting Hogan to come in, AFTER he won the belt, but that had nothing to do with Vader, especially since Vader was the only main event heel on the roster after Flair left in his storyline dictated "retirement" in late 94. Flair in fact had so little stroke that he didn't even have a contract heading into that match, he had to threaten to no show the PPV in order to force WCW to extend his deal so he knew he would get paid during his "retirement" angle. If Vader wasn't treated properly in Flair's absence that wasn't his fault.

Once Hogan came in he had final say on all angles involving any top tier stars that might work with or against him. Guys like Flair & Sting took their orders from Hogan, later when he arrived Savage did too. Same with Vader.

In short, most of Vader's tenure WCW bypassed him for guys like Sting & Luger when Flair wasn't even working there, and once Hogan arrived it was his show, he had final say on everything. Vader was losing at SC 93 no matter what, WCW already decided his time was done, but that wasn't Flair's fault, he was a part time midcarder who originally was booked to wrestle Harlem Heat in tag match on the show, he was promoted to the main event only because Sid was fired.

As for holding Luger back, Flair did more than any other wrestler he ever worked with in building Luger's character and promoting him on TV. Flair never sold for anyone the way he sold for Luger, except maybe in tag matches against The Road Warriors. First as his partner then as his opponent, Flair more than anyone made Luger a star. And Flair never had a problem putting the belt on Luger in 91, WCW screwed that up by firing Flair when he refused to sign a new deal (at steep pay decrease). They easily could have kept him for another month at his previous pay to get the title match on PPV or have him drop the title earlier before his existing deal ran out. Keep in mind WCW owed Flair several thousand dollars in back pay they attempted to renege on until he sued them (leading to the WCW Title Belt showing up on WWE TV in the fall of 1991).

Luger certainly has made it clear in interviews over the years that Flair helped him enormously in his early days and has nothing but good things to say about their time together, given all the politics and self promoting that takes place in the industry, it's rare when you find two guys who worked together that often and have so little negative to say about those times.

 

[NSL]

Based on his accomplishments in pro wrestling and how hard he worked, I'd say he surely has the qualifications for HOF. I don't particularly care about his drug use or whatever the hell happened with Elizabeth.... not as a barrier to induction.

Still, although I've caught garbage on this forum previously for bringing this up, I ask whether an organization would want to honor a guy who pulled the crap Luger did when leaving WWE to return to WCW.

Basically everything she said. I hated him, and never rooted for him (even as the All-American against Yokozuna), but he certainly had a long enough career, and enough accolades to earn a spot in the HOF. His personal issues/demons are obviously a slight against him, but that shouldn't have anything to do with his wrestling career.

But there's also the very real fact that he left on rather awful terms. Not many people would object to him getting named, and vice versa. He could never be "the" name for any given year, so he'd have to be part of a pretty strong class, probably loaded with NWA/WCW guys.

 

[FlairFan2003]

I think it was Flairs book when Jim Herd was playing hardline in contract negotiations.... Herd wanted Flair to drop the belt to Luger, but Flair refused, believing that Sting or Barry Windham were more deserving.

As it happened Flair left for WWE in 1991 without losing the title officially, and Luger won the vacant title.

Flair never said in his book he wouldn't drop the belt to Luger. He said he refused their contract offer because they were paying Sid on a multi million deal and they wanted to cut his pay to less that $300,000 (I believe it was $250,000). This was after he refused to play a Roman Gladiator gimmick and wear an earing.

Flair was already on WCW TV promoting the GAB PPV, and Luger was in place as the #1 Contender. Flair's deal expired later in June, after the Clash Of Champions TV Special where Luger is named #1 Contender but before the mid July PPV. Flair said in his book that he offered to stay until the Bash PPV and lose to Luger but he wouldn't sign the new deal, he could get a better deal with WWE. If they extended his deal another month at the current rate through the Bash PPV he would stay. WCW refused.

Flair also said in his book that he offered to put over Luger before the PPV, before his deal ran out, but WCW (mostly Jim Herd) was upset he refused to sign the new pay cut deal and declined, he said WCW counter offered he could drop the title to Barry Whyndam thinking because they were life long friends Flair would be less likely to double cross them. Again, he agreed, but thinking that night would be his last date with the company he asked for the back pay on the deposits made on the title belt, WCW refused, and Flair actually refused to put over WHYNDAM, not Luger until they paid him and refused to relinquish the physical title belt until he goy his money back. WCW then fired him even though he had dates on his deal left.

Flair never stated he wouldn't put over Luger. He wouldn't resign with the company for what he considered a low ball deal, especially when guys he felt were much less deserving (Sid) were getting top dollar. If WCW didn't want to extend his deal a month to get Luger put over on PPV he was willing to put him over prior to that before his deal ran out, WCW changed those plans, not him, and the only guy who "got screwed" here was Whyndam who was just hours away from being WCW's choice as World Champ, done in when Flair refused to put him over (despite their life long friendship) because WCW owed him money and he wanted assurances on how he would get paid and they declined to pay him at all.

If WCW was smart they would have extended his deal through the end of July, had him do the Bash PPV and maybe a televised re match, put Luger over, then move on. The cheapest thing would just have been to have cameras present at a house show before his deal expired and have him put Luger over then. WCW screwed Luger there, not Flair.

Flair also said in his book WCW tripled their offer to him to get him back AFTER crowning Luger champion, to just under a million a year, with provisions about how his character would be presented on TV, etc, but he refused and signed with WWE, even though Vince at the time was not giving out guaranteed deals, Vince promised him he would make (at least the same amount) WCW offered and that he could leave at any time if he was unhappy about his storylines.

Jim Herd was fired by the way right after Flair officially went with WWE. Luger must not have been happy either because he left in early 92, when his deal expired, and joined Flair in WWE (a motorcycle accident delayed his in ring debut for almost a year but Luger finished with WCW at the Feb 92 SuperBrawl PPV and joined WWE, less than a month after Flair won the 92 Royal Rumble).

 

[Goldie]

Flair never said in his book he wouldn't drop the belt to Luger. He said he refused their contract offer because they were paying Sid on a multi million deal and they wanted to cut his pay to less that $300,000 (I believe it was $250,000). This was after he refused to play a Roman Gladiator gimmick and wear an earing.
[/I]).

Actually my bad... it was in the Flair biography DVD they realised in 2008 in conjunction with his Hall of Fame, not his book.
I just remember Flair saying in the DVD before he jumped ship to WWE that he was asked to drop the belt to Luger and he said no, but would drop it to Windham who deserved it.

I wasn't talking about the politics as for Flair leaving WCW in the first place- it was the scenario of him dropping the belt to someone- and he mentions in the DVD he would have dropped it to Windham over luger

 

[NSL]

Actually my bad... it was in the Flair biography DVD they realised in 2008 in conjunction with his Hall of Fame, not his book.
I just remember Flair saying in the DVD before he jumped ship to WWE that he was asked to drop the belt to Luger and he said no, but would drop it to Windham who deserved it.

I wasn't talking about the politics as for Flair leaving WCW in the first place- it was the scenario of him dropping the belt to someone- and he mentions in the DVD he would have dropped it to Windham over luger

I'd rather have seen the belt on Wyndham than Luger anyway. And, with their personal relationship, it would make far more sense to have Flair drop it to Wyndham, and then let Wyndham put Luger over, if you're thinking only in the mindset of the bookers and the people not wanting to pay Flair.

The best bet, obviously, would have been to pay the man, have him put Luger over, lose a rematch to solidify the reign, and then he leaves. But, that would make sense, and these are the people responsible for the worst booking era ever...

 

[Just Do It]

I think Luger gets a bad rap from a lot of people. He had some blinding matches in his day and it takes two to tango. His teaming with Sting was fun and his defeat of Hogan in WCW was one of wrestling great feel good moments. If he got the proper win at Summerslam, I think we would have done fine as champion.