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Week 9: The D-Man -versus- ztwhite
- Thread starter Mr. TM
- Start date
(I apologize for, once again, not having a whole lot of time to debate this week. However, I don't think I need a whole lot of information to win this one. But this is not a conceited statement. I've said it for no other reason than the fact that it's blatantly obvious that the Rock was a much better heel than he was a babyface.)
Ah irony. Its the story of the Rocks career. Irony made him, broke him, and launched him into a worldwide phenomenon. And its only fitting that an ironic occurrence is the perfect opener for todays debate which will prove that the Rocks career as a heel was FAR superior to his career as a babyface.
The irony that I speak of has to do with ztwhites statement when choosing his side in the debate
This phrase was created by the Rock as a tool to generate more heel heat and it worked like a charm. But, ironically again, once the Rock turned babyface, this heelish moniker turned into his calling card as he electrified arenas all over the world. More on that later
First of all, something needs to be clarified. The word "better" in this debate can go in many directions. I believe that the most fair way to judge if the Rock was "better" as a heel or a face should be determined by his effectiveness as either persona. That being said, away we go...
We all know the story... the Rock is a third generation superstar that began his WWE career as the incredible failure, Rocky Maivia. Vince was still stuck in his old school mentality and tried to dictate to the audience which superstars they should cheer and who they should boo. So, he took some ugly tassels, an aqua blue set of tights, a REALLY bad hairdo and a smile and threw it on Dwayne Johnson, hoping that the crowd would see his legacy and swoon. Vince even tried wrapping an Intercontinental Championship around Rocky's waist, hoping it would impress the audience enough to appreciate his talent, look, charisma, and skill. Obviously, it was a massive failure. Rocky Maivia was booed out of every arena across the world and people were so vocal about their hatred for him that they began a chant wishing that he would cease to live. Dwayne Johnson was genuinely hated by the crowd and was born to be a heel. (Ironically, this began to elevate him.)
So what did Vince do about this when he had nowhere left to turn? He gave the audience what they wanted. Vince turned him heel, handed him a microphone, and told him to tell everyone in the audience exactly how he felt about them. Thus, "The Rock" was born and a career was launched. At first, the Rock was supposed to be a pawn in the Nation of Domination. But, he was such a breakout heel-star that the other writers decided to have him overthrow the leader of the Nation, Ron Simmons, and lead the faction on his own. He began speaking in the third person and cutting some of the best promos in the industry, constantly showcasing his brilliant mind and bullied antics. He started his sentences with The Rock says and after gaining the Intercontinental championship he began referring to himself as The Peoples Champion to gain more heat and it worked like a charm. (The Rock elevated himself some more.)
He led the Nation to feud against Degeneration X which is one of the best faction vs. faction feuds in the history of professional wrestling. The Rocks personal feud with Triple H for the Intercontinental elevated both superstars to new heights (no pun intended), especially after their classic Two out of Three Falls match and their ladder match at Summerslam.
The WWE realized that the Rocks heel persona was the greatest idea they ever could have given him and wanted to cash in on its success, so they allowed the Rock to feud with Mark Henry, simultaneously disbanding the Nation and allowing the Rock to jump into the world title picture. (Another elevation occurred.)
NOTE: Now comes the biggest argument that I can make in this debate to prove to everyone that the Rock was a better heel than a babyface.
As the Rock was entered into the Deadly Games Tournament, he began to cut more and more heel promos and the audience took notice of his talent on the mic. Being bad is cool, and the Rock was a perfect example of this. So, people began to cheer him and he quickly rose to become one of the WWEs most popular superstars. In other words, the Rock was such a good heel that it turned him babyface. He advanced in the tournament and eventually won it, while simultaneously shocking the audience by being in cahoots with Vince McMahon the whole time, thus taking the head seat in the most powerful faction in the WWE, the Corporation. Now, the Rock was not only the WWF champion, but the youngest champion in history and the first WWE champion of African-American decent. (If THIS isnt an elevation, I dont know WHAT is.)
The Rock was on top as the WWEs top heel and now had the chance to elevate OTHER talent. He began by feuding with Mankind (after screwing Mankind at Deadly Games with the help of Vince McMahon) in one of the Rocks most infamous feuds that involved headlining multiple PPVs and multiple WWE championships changing hands. This epic feud ran until February, and then the Rock was finally able to begin a program in one of the most infamous feuds in WWF history.
Stone Cold Steve Austin and the Rock were the epitome of the most popular babyface facing the most popular heel at Wrestlemania XV. Building up to the event, they exchanged classic interviews, segments, and encounters that are some of the most memorable in history. They faced off with the Rock coming out on the losing end, but none of that mattered. The Rocks heel persona had finally elevated him to an untouchable status and he was a made man.
Over the next few years, the Rock would turn into a full-blown babyface, and despite his popularity and other championship reigns, he was never able to elevate himself any further. Sure, his promos were classic. Sure, he had many great matches. Sure, he got movie roles. But none of this was attributed to his roles as a babyface character. His heel persona got him to an all-mighty position in the WWF and was the catalyst to holding the audience in the palm of his hands during interviews and segments outside of the ring. Even though Hollywood came calling and the people loved him, he was never as EFFECTIVE of a babyface as he was as a heel. The Rock was nothing more than another popular superstar in a sea of other babyfaces such as Austin and Mankind. He got overshadowed by the Invasion angle and took several leaves of absence to film more movies in Hollywood.
The audience began to resent the Rock as he grew more and more stale and disappeared into the Hollywood scene yet again. So, when the Rock returned after starring in the Scorpion King, he came back with a whole new attitude. He turned heel again, this time taking reality and twisting it onto the audience. He began acting like a brash, arrogant movie star and cut some more classic promos. He began to elevate new talent such as the Hurricane in a short feud that resulted in some of his most memorable promos. The Rock would put on Rock concerts in the middle of the ring and backstage by playing the guitar and mocking WWF superstars and the cities where the live shows were held. Then he took aim at Stone Cold one last time as they headlined Wrestlemania XIX. The Rock would be the victor in Austins final match with the WWE and then have a short feud with Bill Goldberg before wrestling in his final match (at the time) at Summerslam.
This final run was obvious; The Rock wanted to end his career in wrestling in the same fashion that made him a superstar as a heel.
Now that the history lesson is over, its plain to see that the Rock had a great career with the WWE. He was an incredibly popular babyface and a despised heel. So, once again, the question is whether he was better as a heel or a babyface. As a babyface, the crowd was into him. He gained dollars for the WWE in merchandise sales and grabbed PPV buys by chasing the world title on many occasions. However, his wrestling style obviously changed, his roles in storylines became stale, and his only claim to fame existed when he held a microphone. However, in terms of effectiveness, its obvious that nothing could touch his heel persona. It not only elevated himself but others around him. When he was a heel, everything he touched turned to gold and almost every wrestler he faced turned into a main event superstar. His career skyrocketed and his legacy was paved. Outside of promos, his most memorable feuds, matches, and character development came while he was a heel.
The Rock was a hell of a babyface and just what the audience needed at one point in time. But, in terms of effectiveness throughout the majority of his career, if you really want to know which of the Rocks personas was better, there is no doubt that the Rock was the Peoples HEEL.
Ah irony. Its the story of the Rocks career. Irony made him, broke him, and launched him into a worldwide phenomenon. And its only fitting that an ironic occurrence is the perfect opener for todays debate which will prove that the Rocks career as a heel was FAR superior to his career as a babyface.
The irony that I speak of has to do with ztwhites statement when choosing his side in the debate
Is there really any question that the Rock was "the people's champion" ?
This phrase was created by the Rock as a tool to generate more heel heat and it worked like a charm. But, ironically again, once the Rock turned babyface, this heelish moniker turned into his calling card as he electrified arenas all over the world. More on that later
First of all, something needs to be clarified. The word "better" in this debate can go in many directions. I believe that the most fair way to judge if the Rock was "better" as a heel or a face should be determined by his effectiveness as either persona. That being said, away we go...
Humble Beginnings
We all know the story... the Rock is a third generation superstar that began his WWE career as the incredible failure, Rocky Maivia. Vince was still stuck in his old school mentality and tried to dictate to the audience which superstars they should cheer and who they should boo. So, he took some ugly tassels, an aqua blue set of tights, a REALLY bad hairdo and a smile and threw it on Dwayne Johnson, hoping that the crowd would see his legacy and swoon. Vince even tried wrapping an Intercontinental Championship around Rocky's waist, hoping it would impress the audience enough to appreciate his talent, look, charisma, and skill. Obviously, it was a massive failure. Rocky Maivia was booed out of every arena across the world and people were so vocal about their hatred for him that they began a chant wishing that he would cease to live. Dwayne Johnson was genuinely hated by the crowd and was born to be a heel. (Ironically, this began to elevate him.)
The Rock
So what did Vince do about this when he had nowhere left to turn? He gave the audience what they wanted. Vince turned him heel, handed him a microphone, and told him to tell everyone in the audience exactly how he felt about them. Thus, "The Rock" was born and a career was launched. At first, the Rock was supposed to be a pawn in the Nation of Domination. But, he was such a breakout heel-star that the other writers decided to have him overthrow the leader of the Nation, Ron Simmons, and lead the faction on his own. He began speaking in the third person and cutting some of the best promos in the industry, constantly showcasing his brilliant mind and bullied antics. He started his sentences with The Rock says and after gaining the Intercontinental championship he began referring to himself as The Peoples Champion to gain more heat and it worked like a charm. (The Rock elevated himself some more.)
He led the Nation to feud against Degeneration X which is one of the best faction vs. faction feuds in the history of professional wrestling. The Rocks personal feud with Triple H for the Intercontinental elevated both superstars to new heights (no pun intended), especially after their classic Two out of Three Falls match and their ladder match at Summerslam.
The WWE realized that the Rocks heel persona was the greatest idea they ever could have given him and wanted to cash in on its success, so they allowed the Rock to feud with Mark Henry, simultaneously disbanding the Nation and allowing the Rock to jump into the world title picture. (Another elevation occurred.)
The Main Event Picture
NOTE: Now comes the biggest argument that I can make in this debate to prove to everyone that the Rock was a better heel than a babyface.
As the Rock was entered into the Deadly Games Tournament, he began to cut more and more heel promos and the audience took notice of his talent on the mic. Being bad is cool, and the Rock was a perfect example of this. So, people began to cheer him and he quickly rose to become one of the WWEs most popular superstars. In other words, the Rock was such a good heel that it turned him babyface. He advanced in the tournament and eventually won it, while simultaneously shocking the audience by being in cahoots with Vince McMahon the whole time, thus taking the head seat in the most powerful faction in the WWE, the Corporation. Now, the Rock was not only the WWF champion, but the youngest champion in history and the first WWE champion of African-American decent. (If THIS isnt an elevation, I dont know WHAT is.)
The Rock was on top as the WWEs top heel and now had the chance to elevate OTHER talent. He began by feuding with Mankind (after screwing Mankind at Deadly Games with the help of Vince McMahon) in one of the Rocks most infamous feuds that involved headlining multiple PPVs and multiple WWE championships changing hands. This epic feud ran until February, and then the Rock was finally able to begin a program in one of the most infamous feuds in WWF history.
The Peak
Stone Cold Steve Austin and the Rock were the epitome of the most popular babyface facing the most popular heel at Wrestlemania XV. Building up to the event, they exchanged classic interviews, segments, and encounters that are some of the most memorable in history. They faced off with the Rock coming out on the losing end, but none of that mattered. The Rocks heel persona had finally elevated him to an untouchable status and he was a made man.
The Plateau
Over the next few years, the Rock would turn into a full-blown babyface, and despite his popularity and other championship reigns, he was never able to elevate himself any further. Sure, his promos were classic. Sure, he had many great matches. Sure, he got movie roles. But none of this was attributed to his roles as a babyface character. His heel persona got him to an all-mighty position in the WWF and was the catalyst to holding the audience in the palm of his hands during interviews and segments outside of the ring. Even though Hollywood came calling and the people loved him, he was never as EFFECTIVE of a babyface as he was as a heel. The Rock was nothing more than another popular superstar in a sea of other babyfaces such as Austin and Mankind. He got overshadowed by the Invasion angle and took several leaves of absence to film more movies in Hollywood.
One Last Time
The audience began to resent the Rock as he grew more and more stale and disappeared into the Hollywood scene yet again. So, when the Rock returned after starring in the Scorpion King, he came back with a whole new attitude. He turned heel again, this time taking reality and twisting it onto the audience. He began acting like a brash, arrogant movie star and cut some more classic promos. He began to elevate new talent such as the Hurricane in a short feud that resulted in some of his most memorable promos. The Rock would put on Rock concerts in the middle of the ring and backstage by playing the guitar and mocking WWF superstars and the cities where the live shows were held. Then he took aim at Stone Cold one last time as they headlined Wrestlemania XIX. The Rock would be the victor in Austins final match with the WWE and then have a short feud with Bill Goldberg before wrestling in his final match (at the time) at Summerslam.
This final run was obvious; The Rock wanted to end his career in wrestling in the same fashion that made him a superstar as a heel.
Now that the history lesson is over, its plain to see that the Rock had a great career with the WWE. He was an incredibly popular babyface and a despised heel. So, once again, the question is whether he was better as a heel or a babyface. As a babyface, the crowd was into him. He gained dollars for the WWE in merchandise sales and grabbed PPV buys by chasing the world title on many occasions. However, his wrestling style obviously changed, his roles in storylines became stale, and his only claim to fame existed when he held a microphone. However, in terms of effectiveness, its obvious that nothing could touch his heel persona. It not only elevated himself but others around him. When he was a heel, everything he touched turned to gold and almost every wrestler he faced turned into a main event superstar. His career skyrocketed and his legacy was paved. Outside of promos, his most memorable feuds, matches, and character development came while he was a heel.
The Rock was a hell of a babyface and just what the audience needed at one point in time. But, in terms of effectiveness throughout the majority of his career, if you really want to know which of the Rocks personas was better, there is no doubt that the Rock was the Peoples HEEL.
Cena's Little Helper
Mid-Card Championship Winner
D-Man wins by default.
tdigle's Score
D-Man - 5
ztwhite - 0
tdigle's Score
D-Man - 5
ztwhite - 0
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