Week 4:- "What if ...Hogan v Flair at WM8

d_henderson1810

Mid-Card Championship Winner
Time for my famous series again. This week I ask what you think would have happened if....Hulk Hogan had fought "The Nature Boy" Ric Flair at WM8?

Hogan and Flair were originally scheduled to meet at WM8 for the WWE Title. However, I heard that Hogan wanted time off, but also wanted to beat Flair for the title. Anyway, different things and politics conspired to prevent this match happening at Wrestlemania 8, and instead they had their first match at "Bash At The Beach 1994" in WCW.

So, what if Hogan and Flair had had that match at WM8? Who would win? Would it have been a match for the ages? It was touted at the match between the two biggest icons of the 80's, so how do you think the match would go down? Would WWF/E have ruined the match, or would be one talked about for years?

Tell me what you think would have happened?
 
tough one. on one hand Hogan was on his way out but had he battled Flair maybe he woulda stuck around as there woulda been another big battle for him.

I say it woulda been a good WrestleMania match for maybe 20-30mins then Sid, Mr Perfect and possibly Savage gets involved somehow. Sid was part of Flair winning the title at the Royal Rumble and there was gonna be heat from Hogan for Sid eliminating him. and Savage was on a roll and was fueding with Mr Perfect and Flair leading upto Mania 8 though that would probably have been different if Hogan wasn't leaving.

the other thing though it would seem set in stone that it would be for the Title i say they have Flair drop the title b4hand and have Savage battle Mr Perfect or suprise return of The Ultimate Warrior in a WrestleMania 7 rematch with Savage winning this time. This way Flair vs Hogan is pure Icon vs Icon for bragging rights as it should be.

couldn't go with the Real Worlds Title vs the World Wrestling Federation title since Flair was sued for using the belt but they coulda still said it and just not used a physical belt, anyway they have a barn burner ending still in a no contest so neither guy loses face and in the 2nd main event Savage still battle The Warrior.

I wonder if there really was much ego vs ego since they battled seemingly harmoneously in WCW soon after with both winning atleast once.
 
I am not sure this match would have been that eventful. Its really hard to say with this one- on paper it would look like it could be one of the most iconic WM main events of all time. However, Flair never really got over in his first WWF run. At least I dont recall ever feeling like he was a credible threat. WWF was larger than life character at that time, Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Undertaker, HBK, Papa Shango- Flair was a deep South -old school looking wrestler. In my opinion he did not fit with the cartoonish wwf product. On top of that- he was still high in his career, but his career had already peaked at that time, as had Hogan's (at least until a few years later when it was all reinvented). So at the time you had two guys that were on the way out (for the time being). So if the match had gone on- i have no doubt that we would all look back at it as a top WM main event- however at the time I don't think the WWF fan base would have appreciated it as much.
 
I think Vince called it right when he said they were put together a couple of years too late.

I was a watching every week back then and you could see that the fans had grown tired of Hogan by Royal Rumble 92. Flair was interesting, in that he was new and was a strong heel, something Vince was always poor at promoting. If the match happened it would have been Hogan going over for the title and dropping it at Summerslam in some garbage match.

No way they would have had Hogan vs Flair and not have it for the title baxck then. No-one cared about icon vs icon matches, it was all about the title. Had they fought in a non-title match and had Savage vs Sid, for example, for the belt than Savage vs Sid would have overshadowed them. That's how big having the WWF title was back then
 
Hulk Hogan would have won the match, no argument. Flair was booked originally to go over Savage, but Savage went ballistic and threatened to pull ot of the match if he didnt go over. Hogan was not going to do the job either, thus why he and Sid were paired up.
The match would have been usual Hogan fodder, hindisght shows the right decision was made.
 
I am so torn on this topic. On one had I could imagine how epic Hogan vs Flair would have been (espeically if there was no law suit and it was title vs title), on the other hand I loved WM8 and it all seemed to work out.

If Hogan vs Flair went on the card I think there is no doubt Hogan goes over. Even with Hogan leaving shortly after. The match would be epic, even just for the site of the two of them standing in the same ring at WM.

If Hogan/Flair did go on, I see the card going like this:
WWF Champion Hulk Hogan vs Real Worlds Champion Ric Flair

Macho Man Randy Savage vs Jake Roberts in a steel cage match

Sid vs the Undertaker

The rest going on the same, not sure how Warriors return would have went. Maybe still during the Hogan match or during Savages match one year after he ended his carrer.

Flair was booked originally to go over Savage, but Savage went ballistic and threatened to pull ot of the match if he didnt go over. Hogan was not going to do the job either, thus why he and Sid were paired up.

Where did you hear this? I never heard anything of Flair originally being supposed to go over and Savage freaking out. Also, Vince promised Sid hed go on with Hogan at WM when Sid signed.
 
I don't think it would have worked as well. WWF fans were tired of Hogan and did not appreciate who Flair was fully. The idea of it being the two leaders of the wrestling world didn't really resonate with WWF fans. It worked out much better in WCW where Hogan was a new novelty that the fans embraced for awhile and Flair was The Man.

I don't buy that it was ego driven though. I know that is often cited, but it doesn't make sense to me. Hogan and Flair must have worked 50 matches in WCW and Hogan put Flair over and Flair put Hogan over. They actually worked quite well together in my mind. Perhaps the different in wrestling style in WCW helped them mesh better than they would have in the WWF though.

Anyway, the match seems like it SHOULD have happened at Wrestlemania, but looking back I don't think it really needed to. Savage vs Flair turned out to be very good and their rivalry ended up spanning a decade as well.
 
WWE wasn't afraid to book their WM8 main event on a DQ. I wouldn't be surprised if it went that way if we had Hogan/Flair instead. Hogan would have been about to put Flair away then Perfect interferes in the match giving Hogan the DQ Win.

This plays out similar to the Hogan and Sid finish. Perfect and Flair beat down Hogan then The Ultimate Warrior makes a run in.

Flair and Perfect bail out. Hogan wins but does not win the title. But with Warrior's return fans are happy.

End of WM8.
 
People need to remember that if they went with this angle of who is the Real World Champion then it was basically pitting the WCW Champion vs the WWF Champion. Do you really think Vince would book anything other than the WWF Champion winning in that scenario?
 
The real world champion angle was over by now. Flair had won the title at Royal Rumble. There was no WWF vs WCW champion, he was the WWF champion.
 
I was about 13 at the time, and yes this was a very highly anticipated match. On one hand Hogan was growing stale in the fans eyes by then, but it was a match that people wanted to see. Every wrestling magazine that you saw had some sort of mention of the match possibly taking place. The real world champion thing was done and over with, and Flair was the WWF champion. Now in hindsight I don't think it would have lived up to the hype. Their first match in WCW was just a little more than a Hogan squash match. None of my friend's watching with me actually believed Flair had a chance to win. I think the same thing would have applied if they had a match at Mania 8. WCW fed Flair to Hogan so why wouldn't the WWE. I know Hogan was just coming to WCW and needed a big win, but if I am not mistaken he took the title from Flair in his first match with the company. Go back and watch the match, it wasn't exactly an edge of your seat encounter. It was several years late by that point, but still. All in all I don't think the match would have been much better at Mania 8. I think Hogan would have went over pretty decisively or some kind of dq finish like some other people have said.
 
Everyone knew Hogan would win at Bash At The Beach because You dont sign Hogan, bring him and have him lose. It was hardly a squash match, I thought it was pretty even, lasted just under 25 minutes. No one on planet earth thought Savage would win at WM 5 but it was a huge match.

That said, the heat from Flair's Royal Rumble win, coupled with the whole "2 best champs in wrestling" idea would have made Hogan-Flair at WM 8 huge, rivaling Hogan-Andre and eclipsing all of Hogan's other WM matches. Flair was the first wrestler in the Vince Jr era that was actually promoted as having had a career outside WWE, an "international champion" who "wrestled around the world". That was a huge admission by WWE standards in the pre Monday Night Wars era.

Personally, although the whole 60 minute "beat the whole WWE" Rumble win was a dominating, impressive way to finally crown him champ, I always thought they should have had Flair go over Hogan clean at RR to win the belt. Have Hogan disappear for awhile, reeling from the loss. Flair goes on a rampage, not just winning matches but beating down opponents, all the time proclaiming himself "The Perfect Champion" and the man who ended Hulkamania (remember Curt Henning & Bobby Heenan were his managers). Finally, maybe at a Sat Nite Main Event after another screwjob win and subsequent beatdown of some fan favorite Flair is confronted by a returning Hogan who triumphantly beats up the champ and declares himself back.

Hogan would reveal in interviews that he didnt know how to handle the RR loss, he thought maybe he'd lost it, that after all these years Flair was better, but he had to return because of the mockery Flair was making of the title and the company, that Hulkamaniacs dont quit and Hogan wasnt going to quit and let down his fans. Of course Flair would initially duck Hogan, eventually agreeing to face him for the title on two conditions. 1st, it happen at WM so all the world can see it, 2nd if Hogan loses he leaves WWE forever.

The match would be set, playing on the whole NWA-WWE dynamic with die hard fans, utilizing the old Heenan-Hogan dynamic, Heenan finally had the horse to beat Hogan & bring him a title, could he finally end Hulka-mania once and for all, and finally if Flair wins again he is entrenched as Greatest Champion Of All Time, hands down, but could he do it at WM, not only the bigest show in wrestling but Hogan's personnal highlight film of career defining moments ? With that set up WWE & McMahon would have gotten the proverbial Match Of The Century. Of course Hogan wins, ending Flair's reign of terror, saving his career, proving the "power of Hulkamania" and quite possibly setting up the rubber match at SummerSlam, possibly in a cage or with No DQ rules.

Now in reality there were unconfirmed stories that Hogan didnt want to lose to Flair, the reason for his RR victory, about as impressive a win as he could get without beating Hogan. Later, plans were changed due to the federal steroid investigation and WWEs decission to distance themselves from Hogan & Piper and anyone else who might be a principal in the case or have a drug problem after WM (the reason for the hastily put together "retirement angle" and match vs Sid) and with that the Dream Match was off. Im not how many fans remember that WWE TV ran a "fan poll" where you could vote for Flair's WM opponent from the Top 4 Contenders (Hogan, Sid, Piper, Savage) and Hogan won, WWE TV ran with Hogan-Flair for 2 weeks before they accelerated the Hogan-Sid feud and Savage was chosen for the title matc
 
So, what if Hogan and Flair had had that match at WM8? Who would win? Would it have been a match for the ages? It was touted at the match between the two biggest icons of the 80's, so how do you think the match would go down? Would WWF/E have ruined the match, or would be one talked about for years?

It certainly would have been talked about for ages, most likely as the match that killed pro-wrestling! This match would have completely and utterly stunk of Hogans ego & Vince's ego/dislike of anything he didn't create! Let's not forget that Hogan couldn't wrestle his way out of a paper bag while Flair could wrestle with a paper bag and make the crowd believe it was a contest :icon_smile:

Even if you ignore the fact that from an actual wrestling perspective the match would have tanked, Flair just wasn't over with the WWF crowd and they wouldn't have really been as 'into' the match as people who watched both WWF & NWA/WCW or just simple people who knew Flair was a wrestling God! Anyone who only remembers Flair for his post-WWE purchase of WCW antics will just think he's an old buffoon who likes to drawl, bleed and stumble about stripping off ranting and claiming to be God won't appreciate that but hey!

For me, if this match had happened, it would have been very similar to the Hogan v Rock match at WM X-8. Hogan would have gone over regardless of whether he won the match or not and most people would think the match itself sucked but the hype & build-up to and around it made the match bearable. Just my opinion!
 
As some have mentioned, had Hogan v Flair gone on at WM VIII, then I would see the card centered around 4 matches:

Hogan v Flair

Savage v Roberts

Sid v Taker

Bret v Piper

Now Bret v Piper plays out as it did, Sid v Taker would be a face Sid against a heel taker. Takers face turn would have been delayed and he never would have turned on Roberts and became face. Sid and Macho would have became allies and had multiple programs leading up to Mania and the two singles matches. For Sid v Taker with how over Sid was and him still being face here, I think Sid would get the win. I forget how soon Sid left the WWF after WM VIII and if it was known before the card he was on his way out, but if wasn't known to be on his way out leading up to WM VIII I couldn't imagine him losing to Taker here. This would also be used as a catalyst for Takers face turn. Savage v Roberts would just be about Savage getting revenge on Jake and beating him badly. Maybe its a no DQ or cage match, either way Savage is gonna win big here. Hogan v Flair would play out much like Hogan v Sid did with Hogan winning due to DQ and Warrior making his return.

Now for the fallout, instead of Savage v Warrior at SummerSlam, it would be Warrior v Flair and Warrior would win the title. Now, if Warrior would still be fired as he was, then I think he would have dropped the title to Savage at Survivor Series. Then Savage would hold the title until WM IX where he would drop it to a returning Hogan. If Hogan were still on his way out then at KOTR, I would hope this time around he would be cool dropping the title to Bret. If not, then it would go to Yoko like it originally did and the rest happens as is.

What would be interesting is if Hogan stuck around after KOTR what would have happened. Me thinks me might start a thread on this very subject once I think it through.
 
Well Bash at the beach wasn't their first match they did have one in Madison square garden in about 1991. I remember Hogan won but I don't remember how. It could have been by count out or disqualification but maybe he did get the pin I don't remember.

To answer the question I don't know what you mean by would wwe have "ruined the match" but I'm pretty sure Vince McMahon wouldn't have had Ric Flair who wasn't already a star through his own doing but through a different company beat his own home made megastar Hulk Hogan.
I don't think it would've been much of a memorable match it would've gone the typical Hulk Hogan routine win with the Hulkster on the wrong end of the stick midway through after a short burst of dominance at the beginning with his bandanna in flairs mouth and turnbuckle punches etc. At the end there would've been the inevitable underhanded tactic by Flair either through his own doing or someone interfering on his behalf spurring Hogan to miraculously either kick out or break the figure four leg lock and hulk up culminating in a boot and a leg drop for the win.
We all know Hogan wasn't scheduled to hang around much after that so some sort of work would've been done forcing the wwf championship to be vacated and the door obviously left open for the Hulkster to one day return.
 
They were wrestling on tour at the house shows. The MSG match ended with a DQ. I attended a house show here in philly where Hogan/Flair ended with a Nasty boys run in (the Rockers made the save).

I still say just the sight of these two facing off at WM would have made it memorable. Some say low House show attendance is why they didnt square off at WM, others say they wanted to split the two up to have more quality matches.
 
Bash At The Beach was the first WCW match between them just to clear up confusion, it was also's Hogan's first actual match in WCW although he had been appearing on TV for a long time.

Flair and Hogan wrestled several times in WWE before the 91 Survivor Series (where Flair causes Hogan to lose to Undertaker). The Madison Square Garden Match took place right before or after that, not sure, but they had multiple matches prior to that. Their first bout was actually in Dayton Ohio (believe it or not). I saw them in Pittsburgh maybe 2 or 3 weeks before S-Series.

All of their WWE matches at the time ended in DQ or count-outs, Hogan won more than Flair but Flair did win some, including the first match. The ending where Flair pins Hogan but the decission is reversed on a technicality became their standard house show match at the time.

I still think the match would have happened at WM 8 if not for the federal steroid issues and the decission to have Hogan leave. You couldnt book Hogan to win the belt off of Flair if he wasnt going to wrestle anymore. If you booked Flair to go over and Hogan leaves then you pretty much just squashed HulkaMania. Also, no one knew when Hogan would (or could) come back. It wasnt like they knew if Flair went over at WM8 then Hogan could come back in the fall and avenge the loss at Survivor Series. Bringing Ultimate Warrior back was done in part to soften the blow of Hogan's exit.

As far as attendance from what I read the first go around did very well on the house show circuit, the second set didnt do as well though that those bouts took place during the in between time when there was no WWE champion prior to Royal Rumble so no belts were on the line. I know in Pittsburgh the two events we had headlined by Flair and Hogan drew 11,000 (Oct 91) and 13,500 (March 92) approximately, which were the best crowds for wrestling events here in several years. Remember, these were non televised, non PPV events, and the cards were not stacked with great matches. I attended a show in betwen those two events that drew in the 6,000-7,000 range that was headlined by Savage vs Jake Roberts (Jan 92).
 
Quote:HBKPerfect23



Flair was booked originally to go over Savage, but Savage went ballistic and threatened to pull ot of the match if he didnt go over. Hogan was not going to do the job either, thus why he and Sid were paired up.

Where did you hear this? I never heard anything of Flair originally being supposed to go over and Savage freaking out. Also, Vince promised Sid hed go on with Hogan at WM when Sid signed.
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There were rumors about the Sid thing but Ive never seen it addressed by any of the principals. In Flair's book he said he didnt know the exact reason they changed WM 8 from him vs Hogan (which was promoted on TV) to Flair vs Savage but he did say that originally they were going to let him retain the title until Savage complained. I dont think he portrayed it as "going ballistic", if I remember in his book Flair kind of blew it off, saying somethinlg like "Randy whined about losing" and making it seem like he was amenable to the switch. Mostly he talked about their actual match, the whole reference to wether or not Vince changed the winner was very small.
 
OK, got it. I do think it was the right choice to have Savage go over. I still kind of wish we got Hogan/Flair.
 
WWE wasn't afraid to book their WM8 main event on a DQ. I wouldn't be surprised if it went that way if we had Hogan/Flair instead. Hogan would have been about to put Flair away then Perfect interferes in the match giving Hogan the DQ Win.

This plays out similar to the Hogan and Sid finish. Perfect and Flair beat down Hogan then The Ultimate Warrior makes a run in.

Flair and Perfect bail out. Hogan wins but does not win the title. But with Warrior's return fans are happy.

End of WM8.

Totally agree! That has always been my thoughts on re booking Mania 8. Have a great match, end it on a DQ but Warrior's return sends everybody home happy. It would of worked!
 
So, what if Hogan and Flair had had that match at WM8?
If I had a time machine, I would go back and try harder to get this match booked…by praying, hoping and wishing of course.

Who would win?
I would have to say Hulk Hogan would have won. Considering that Hogan defeated Sid and Savage defeated Flair, I think the results would have stayed the same as far as Hogan and Flair are concerned. Plus I could see Savage defeating Sid if need be.

Would it have been a match for the ages?
It would have been the Greatest match ever to take place in the history of Professional Sports Wrestling Entertainment. It would have been better if Hulk Hogan was WWE Champion and Ric Flair was NWA / WCW Champion.

It was touted at the match between the two biggest icons of the 80's, so how do you think the match would go down?
I’m sure there would have been run-ins like crazy. I could see Mr. Perfect, Bobby The Brain Heenan and Harvey Wippleman helping Flair. I could see Ultimate Warrior, Macho Man, and Miss Elizabeth helping Hogan.

Would WWF/E have ruined the match, or would be one talked about for years?
They already ruined the match by not having it. It can’t be any worse than it being non-existent. If Vince let Hogan and Flair sit down and go through the match and found an agreement, I think images from the match would be included in every single WWE intro ever created.
 
Say what you want about poor house show attendance (which is what most offer up as the reason, including J.J Dillon and Meltzer), Flair vs. Hogan should've closed out WM8. Not before or since has there ever been a match comparable to the magnitude that is representative to Hogan/Flair. You have, in essence, professional wrestling's quintessential prototypes. The archetype face in Hogan, the model heel in Flair. Hogan/Flair deserved the taglines "Once in a Lifetime," "Match of the Century" and any other overused cliche this business has become known for, because no two men epitomized professional wrestling in the way Flair and Hogan did in the 80's and 90's. It was the clash of styles, Flair's mat savvy to Hogan's brawling technique; a war of culture, with Hogan representing the larger than life All American super hero to Flair's egomaniacial, flashy embodiment of 80's culture and capitalist greed. Flair and Hogan's encounter should have been the end all, be all. They had built in heat, even with the average fan. Obviously, Vince wasn't afraid to acknowledge Flair's past accomplishments, as evidence by bringing the NWA's 15 lbs. Of Gold on WWF television. And despite Flair perhaps (and even as the ultimate Flair fan, this point is debatable) being the all around more complete package, it was a perfect setup to have Hogan come out on top in what would have clearly been the biggest Mania main event of all time. Both Hogan and Flair know how to elicit a reaction, and I can promise you, with Flair's selling and bumping for the Hulkster, and Hogan's theatrics and crowd psychology - it gives me goose bumps to know what that crowd of 70,000 would've done.

Sadly, it didn't come to fruition on the grandest stage, the "showcase of the immortals" as it were. I can assure you, while I do NOT claim to know more about the business than Vince McMahon or Pat Patterson or J.J Dillon or anyone else for that matter, I can tell you if promoted right and marketed correctly, Flair and Hogan could've, would've and should've had the match of a lifetime.
 

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