We want wrestling, dont we?

[a0161613]

Having watched the two Impacts since BFG, something struck me. There has been only one decent wrestling match in four hours.

I don’t want to complain too much that there aren't enough matches (that's for another thread) but when Mickie and Sarita put on the best TNA match of the last fortnight that doesn't involve basic punches and kicks before a premature or BS ending or a DQ through interference, it is a bit of an indictment for a company who claims to put on the best matches.

I know what TNA can do with their in ring product when they put their mind to it - we all do, but even with the Immortal angle going on, every other match or segment doesn't have to involve them.

The prime example of this was the AJ / Pope match. It should have been great. The build-up was really promising, I liked all the segments leading up to it but the match itself prior to and including the interference was absolutely lacking any energy. We know these two can go and they should have been able to have good, clean match. Pope could have looked strong too. We absolutely didn’t need more reinforcement that Fortune and Immortal are one unit for now. I knew that last week and I know nothing changed.

I expect it to continue unfortunately. Until they can learn that they have the talent to keep the drama to a minimum and let the talent impress the viewing public, then they may never truly succeed. I am all for angles, with good writing and good promos but they need to find a balance with in ring action that people want to see. Pope and AJ could have had a match that would have made people want to watch TNA. Instead we had another unmemorable match/angle that was worth nothing, changed nothing and could have been fast-forwarded through by a casual viewer.

 

[Djm]

Wrestling is more than just matches.

Besides, if you bring up Pope and AJ, people will just start talking about how they can't draw, and blah blah blah.

 

[a0161613]

Well no, wrestling in and of itself isnt just more than matches - you're thinking of sports-entertainment. Impact had plenty of promo after BFG. Tonight should have been the time for the in ring action to be given a chance.

Pope hasn't been given a chance on top so his ability to draw is untested but the guy is capable and entertaining. I would say AJ is a successful draw given he is a relatively unknown guy and the length of his last title reign.

 

[Djm]

A pro wrestling product is a complete package. A good pro wrestling television product is able to balance in-ring action with storylines and character development. There isn't a single professional wrestling company that doesn't do that.

 

[Kenny Powers]

TNA used to have a good balance of wrestling and drama, but now its more about the drama then wrestling. Maybe we will see more quality matches in the future, but with this Immortal angle going on it looks like we will see more talking and less action. TNA seems to focus their time more on the Immortal angle and Reaction then the actual matches that take place on the show. The show doesn't have to be all matches, but it should have a steady balance.

 

[ilapierre]

A weekly wrestling program should attract viewers and capture their interest so they will buy the monthly pay per view. Impact doesn`t even need to air one match as long as the show is entertaining enough to draw new fans, maintain regular ones, and increase ppv buyrates. I could care less if there is 10 matches or if there is 3, its all about the quality of entertainment the match brings. Frankly, there`s too much wrestling if anything on shows like RAW. And its not memorable. Impact aired some great matches the night they didn`t feature much wrestling. That`s memorable.

Now there would be a problem if a pay per view was lacking in wrestling. But that`s never the case. A pay per view is all about the wrestling entertainment. A regular tv
show trying to increase ratings and build a fanbase is all about entertainment. Doesn`t necessarily need to be actual wrestling.

 

[SpecialFNK]

I don't think people should be worried about the in ring wrestling right now. if in another month or so from now TNA is still having 80-90% of the show non in ring wrestling then you could have more to complain about.
you have a huge angle right now. this is something that has been in the planning for months. all the Immortal/Fortune stuff is setting them up more and more to be hated and major heels. your likely going to continue seeing them in the coming weeks.
I personally have been entertained the last 2 weeks, but I do think TNA could have had more actual wrestling.
in order to have had more wrestling you would have had to do without something that did happen. in the last 2 Impacts, if you wanted to see more in ring wrestling.. what specifically would you have eliminated?
I think the book signing with Mick Foley where Kendrick was talking could have easily been eliminated. I don't see how this had any reason for being done. what did it accomplish? nothing. how long was that, 5+ min? you could have had more wrestling during that time.

 

[burnout4200]

If I had a choice between great matches or a great story I'd pick great story without thinking twice. A good wrestling match is fun but it doesn't suck me in like a great story.

The point of the story is that the bad guys are running the show. To get that point across they have to dominate and fuck up the show. Without all of these swerves the story just wouldn't work. I'm more than willing to give up a few good matches to watch this story play out properly.

TNA went years drawing a 1 with great matches. Well it's time for them to try something new. A great story will draw better than a great match any day of the week. I'm all for the change of pace.

This is going to get me shit but matches bore me after awhile. The only thing that gets me interested in a match is if it's progressing a story. Well unless MCMG is involved of course, but I grew up a Rockers fan so that's a given. I enjoy a great match but I never want to go back and watch it again. Now a great story is different. I've you tubed a million NWO/Sting clips and how long did he go without wrestling during that era? He was the most over person in the history of the company and he didn't have to wrestle a single match to do it. That proves that wrestling is not as big of a necessity as people make it out to be. I don't see threads on this forum about great matches. Everyone is talking about the story and the drama. That's what we want whether you realize it or not.

 

[Dizzy]

The concept of more storylines and segment action is basically to put more serious emphasis on PPV matches.

The whole concept of pro-wrestling is the TV show a few matches and storylines leading to a PPV which makes you want to see how it plays out.

TNA is basically doing the formula that made the Attitude Era special even during WCW's NWO formation, it was used the similar way.

You can't blame them for trying to increase buyrates. Considering that is what makes money and not 10-15 minute matches on TV. You never see Brock Lesnar fighting on TV every week right? There is a reason.

Considering WWE's buyrates are falling drastically since last year and even worse this year, I'm all for finding ways to elevate buyrates and keep the talent healthy.

 

[Thriller Ant]

I really think the issue is the need/ perceived need (depending on who you talk to) to explain everything through promos. Did we need to hear from Hardy, Hogan, Jarrett and Bischoff as to what the deal was with the whole "They" thing? Yes, and no one can deny that. But building off that same segment, did we need talking to show that Fourtune was aligned with them? No. There is so much storytelling that TNA could/should have done through matches, but instead is done through the incessant talking that seems to have dominated lately. For the Fourtune/They combination, all it would take would be a member of one group helping a member of the other win a match. It's very simple, more interesting for a viewer, and gives us wrestling on a wrestling program.

 

[wrestlemaniac]

I'll take a match over a story but if tna wants to get that "bigger" audience then yeah they'll have to go with more story. A story in my opinion doesn't have to be great for it to result in a great match. Actually I thought tna already had a bit to much talking before the hogan crew came along and well that just added more talking. I for on rather a hold for hold, chan, mat wrestling than all this blah blah blah going on, hell I'll even take these flippity floppity "wrestlers" over the talking but i guess if it helps pull in more fans...I dont mind so much, rather have tna around than go back to watching wwe

 

[CabanaBoomBoom514]

It's as the chant goes: WE WANT WRESTING!!! *clap*clap*clap*clap*clap*

I understand were your coming from. I also understand that TNA is trying to make interesting and compelling storylines for the audience so their fans care what's going on in the ring which a wrestling company is supposed to do. But their is no point having them 10-20 minute promos every single time. And some of them are just so boring and confusing that causes someone to lose interest.

And because of their low ratings, I don't think TNA is not even in a position to make such long promo time since not many really care. They should really as you suggested wrestlemaniac, focus more on it's wrestling. They have the talent for it, so why not just put it SIMPLER storylines and let them go. The fans will be entertained while keeping track of what's going on better. And they should get out of the impact zone for a while and try to make money having impact televised in different areas. They have the cash for it.

I would rather have TNA around as well, but for that to happen, they company needs a face lift simalar this if they want higher ratings. Less talkie, more wrestlie.

 

[gd]

I agree, somewhat, I suppose. The whole show can't be straight wrestling, obviously. They need plenty of time to promote overcomplicated, convuluted storylines. However, I'd like a little bit of total nonstop action in the ring, know what I'm sayin'.

Doesn't have to be the main event matches either, they'll likely be shit anyway. Just 2 or 3 spotty X-Division type matches of the MCMG wrestling every week would be enough. If you buy into the whole "they should be an alternative product thing", that's clearly something they should try to do. But they clearly haven't been. Hell, I really enjoyed the Foley/Flair match a few weeks ago simply because it was a legit match of decent length with an actual ending.

 

[klunderbunker]

I mostly agree. Drama does indeed sell storylines, but at the same time you have to have some wrestling thrown in there too. Not like 5 10 minute matches on a show, but a few here and there. Even a couple three minute matches work fine. It breaks the monotony and gives the fans something to get into. A lot of people, myself included, simply like to see wrestling for the athleticism and showmanship of it. It's what makes the sport a sport. If I wanted pure angles and no action, I'd watch a drama. I watch wrestling for the mixture, which is a bit lopsided at this point.

 

[Joe's Gonna Kill You]

I definitely think that TNA should have more Wrestling each week they need to find a perfect balance between matches and promo/segments. I would like to see to also the matches the do have given mire time and have Clean Finishes the last two weeks alot of the matches were short and did not end cleanly. So hopefully we can get some better wrestling in the next two Impacts.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

You do need drama to push the storylines, you do need promos to get you to care about the wrestlers involved and what they're doing. However, I also agree that you need to have wrestling matches in order to show off the product and to, at the very least, give viewers a taste of what they could see if they were to decide to shell out the money for a ppv.

Not every match has to be some 5 star classic, hell none of 'em have to be, nor does there have to be 5, 6 or 10 matches on the card. Most of the formula that Raw has followed this year has basically had 4 matches with 2 generally lasting 5 minutes or less and 2 going past the 10 minute mark and it's a formula that I think has worked very well for Raw and, in my opinion, has helped make Raw a much better show in 2010 than it was in 2009. I do like seeing matches for the showman ship and display of athletic ability. Sometimes, a match can tell a better story than talking on the microphone can.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

You do need drama to push the storylines, you do need promos to get you to care about the wrestlers involved and what they're doing. However, I also agree that you need to have wrestling matches in order to show off the product and to, at the very least, give viewers a taste of what they could see if they were to decide to shell out the money for a ppv.

Not every match has to be some 5 star classic, hell none of 'em have to be, nor does there have to be 5, 6 or 10 matches on the card. Most of the formula that Raw has followed this year has basically had 4 matches with 2 generally lasting 5 minutes or less and 2 going past the 10 minute mark and it's a formula that I think has worked very well for Raw and, in my opinion, has helped make Raw a much better show in 2010 than it was in 2009. I do like seeing matches for the showman ship and display of athletic ability. Sometimes, a match can tell a better story than talking on the microphone can.

I totally agree. Unlike WWE, TNA actually has the cohonies to offer different styles of matches.

For example, they can have your usual spot fest with all the flippy shit. That can last 5-10 minutes and noone's going to complain, it's a good opener and it usually gets the fans fired up. That's what the X-Division is about. Two X-Division matches is fine with me as well.

TNA just signed two awesome female wrestlers, Mickie James and Winter. I've seen Katie Lea in and out of WWE and the girl can go. All of the KO's can go, really, except for Lacey. Last week we saw that the KO's can provide something more than a piss break so there's another match.

Then you have your tag-team division. TNA is uncontested in that department. I don't care if it's EY and OJ, Beer Money, The Guns -- whoever it is, TNA delivers good Tag Team wrestling.

They also have fine mid-carders. Tag Team matches shouldn't happen every single week cuz they don't have that many tag teams and we'd end up seeing the same match over and over again. That's why you have this huge storyline -- Immortals vs whoever steps up. These matches can push the storyline heading into the next PPV. They don't have to end cleanly, as a matter of fact, they shouldn't. Heels always cheat, the good guys are out numbered and outpowered by Immortals. More heat for Immortal and the pay off for the winning face will be bigger.

TNA's lost the wrestling aspect of the shows over the last few weeks, I just think they're struggling to get all the answers out of the way so they can continue with the current stuff. Hopefully they'll get the memo that the reason why TNA survived during the last 8 years wasn't exactly the promos and the angles -- it was the phenomenal athletes they have and the matches they dish out. Problem was -- nobody was there to see it. Now they seemingly start to get into that entertainment groove with the twists, storylines, turns and drama. Combine that with their WRESTLING potential and you have yourself a golden show.

 

[marker]

The problem is that the answer to the question "how much wresting and promos there should be at Impacts" is very subjective. Whatever TNA will do, there will always be people that are unsatisfied. I personally, am not a big fan of a lot of in-ring action. I tend to watch TNA primarily for storylines, drama and characters. I find myself fast forwarding through many matches on Impact. IMO, a match without a storyline or some drama is not very interesting.

 

[rondiesel2005]

I think i remember an interview booker T did about why he left TNA, and one of the reasons is part of management. i remember he said they want him to wrestle Matt Morgan and let Matt beat him in 3 minutes, only problem Booker T has with that is that he doesn't have a feud with Morgan and why should he go out and do 3 minutes with him. I am going to agree with what Marker said about storylines and drama. That is what people want to see. I think one of the reasons why its been very frustrated is because TNA tends to create a storyline that leaves a lot the fans confusing and hard to follow.

if TNA are putting matches on impact, they need to create a storyline. isn't that what's important to wrestling. Great storylines mix in with drama creates good matches. Sometimes i think TNA overdo things too much

 

[a0161613]

A pro wrestling product is a complete package. A good pro wrestling television product is able to balance in-ring action with storylines and character development. There isn't a single professional wrestling company that doesn't do that.

To an extent you are right but there is not a single company that has ever spent as much time on non ring action as TNA have recently.

A weekly wrestling program should attract viewers and capture their interest so they will buy the monthly pay per view. Impact doesn`t even need to air one match as long as the show is entertaining enough to draw new fans, maintain regular ones, and increase ppv buyrates. I could care less if there is 10 matches or if there is 3, its all about the quality of entertainment the match brings. Frankly, there`s too much wrestling if anything on shows like RAW. And its not memorable. Impact aired some great matches the night they didn`t feature much wrestling. That`s memorable.

Now there would be a problem if a pay per view was lacking in wrestling. But that`s never the case. A pay per view is all about the wrestling entertainment. A regular tv
show trying to increase ratings and build a fanbase is all about entertainment. Doesn`t necessarily need to be actual wrestling.

I would agree with you if TNA's PPV buyrates have ever been near average, let alone good. They place big value on Impact and while PPVs arent secondary, they don't build for it either.

I'm not saying there should 10 matches that last 5-10 minutes every week but is having 4 too much to ask alongside a decent main event?

I don't think people should be worried about the in ring wrestling right now. if in another month or so from now TNA is still having 80-90% of the show non in ring wrestling then you could have more to complain about.
you have a huge angle right now. this is something that has been in the planning for months. all the Immortal/Fortune stuff is setting them up more and more to be hated and major heels. your likely going to continue seeing them in the coming weeks.
I personally have been entertained the last 2 weeks, but I do think TNA could have had more actual wrestling.
in order to have had more wrestling you would have had to do without something that did happen. in the last 2 Impacts, if you wanted to see more in ring wrestling.. what specifically would you have eliminated?
I think the book signing with Mick Foley where Kendrick was talking could have easily been eliminated. I don't see how this had any reason for being done. what did it accomplish? nothing. how long was that, 5+ min? you could have had more wrestling during that time.

Good point about the Kendrick thing. Funny but isnt that just good for Reaction?

Immortal was set up perfectly last week and I loved the Hardy/Anderson/RVD ending. I didnt need to hear about it this week. Jarrett didnt need to apologise this week. He could have wrestled. As could have the Guns, Doug Williams, Jay Lethal etc

The concept of more storylines and segment action is basically to put more serious emphasis on PPV matches.

The whole concept of pro-wrestling is the TV show a few matches and storylines leading to a PPV which makes you want to see how it plays out.

TNA is basically doing the formula that made the Attitude Era special even during WCW's NWO formation, it was used the similar way.

You can't blame them for trying to increase buyrates. Considering that is what makes money and not 10-15 minute matches on TV. You never see Brock Lesnar fighting on TV every week right? There is a reason.

Considering WWE's buyrates are falling drastically since last year and even worse this year, I'm all for finding ways to elevate buyrates and keep the talent healthy.

As per what I said above, their buy rates have ALWAYS been abysmal. They dont build for PPV.

I agree, somewhat, I suppose. The whole show can't be straight wrestling, obviously. They need plenty of time to promote overcomplicated, convuluted storylines. However, I'd like a little bit of total nonstop action in the ring, know what I'm sayin'.

Doesn't have to be the main event matches either, they'll likely be shit anyway. Just 2 or 3 spotty X-Division type matches of the MCMG wrestling every week would be enough. If you buy into the whole "they should be an alternative product thing", that's clearly something they should try to do. But they clearly haven't been. Hell, I really enjoyed the Foley/Flair match a few weeks ago simply because it was a legit match of decent length with an actual ending.

Completely agree about the Flair / Foley thing.

I mostly agree. Drama does indeed sell storylines, but at the same time you have to have some wrestling thrown in there too. Not like 5 10 minute matches on a show, but a few here and there. Even a couple three minute matches work fine. It breaks the monotony and gives the fans something to get into. A lot of people, myself included, simply like to see wrestling for the athleticism and showmanship of it. It's what makes the sport a sport. If I wanted pure angles and no action, I'd watch a drama. I watch wrestling for the mixture, which is a bit lopsided at this point.

Again, very much agree. They have a couple of weeks to balance this out but I dont expect to. I doubt there has been a change in how they build for PPVs.

What I cant understand is that a basic story of revenge or ambition goes a long way. Immortal is generally a basic storyline, but I get the impression that they want us to believe that they are all geniusses for tricking them. It's not insulting. Yet.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

Isn't this the same TNA where fans used to chant "This is Wrestling" inside the Impact Zone? Maybe they will chant "This is Drama" from now on.

I agree that Pope could have come out looking stronger in that match. I had high hopes on the Pope but now he just seems to have been relegated to midcard hell. He is just being used to show how mighty immortals are.

It seems more and more like WCW/NWO these days. Only thing is the tag team division of TNA is being used like the cruiserweight division of WCW.

 

[SpecialFNK]

you are going to get more wrestling.
right now I would say TNA is trying to bring in additional fans interested in something other than straight wrestling.
the true TNA wrestling fans are not going to go away. even if some wrestling fans turn off right now because of the lack of wrestling I think they should return once TNA does get back to more wrestling.

 

[DangerousDave]

There were many storylines leading into BFG that were resolved or led to new storylines developing shortly there after, like Immortal, that they need to be sorted out and explained. This is especially true for the people that didn't see the ppv. Things have been so shaken up that in order to build interest for the Turning Point ppv they have to take time from wrestling action for a few weeks to get everyone up to date.

Having seen the next two upcoming Impacts, there are more changes that will have to be explained, but I like the direction this is going in. Some good matches are being set up for TP and the story keeps getting better. Just hang in there, the wrestling will return after the shakeup has been explained.