WCW Region, Baltimore Subregion, First Round: (10) Verne Gagne vs. (23) Shane Douglas

[klunderbunker]

This is a first round match in the WCW Region, Baltimore Subregion. It is a standard one on one match. It will be held at the 1st Mariner Arena, Baltimore, Maryland.

#10. Verne Gagne

Vs.

#23. Shane Douglas

​

Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Davi323]

I dunno, ECW rules or not, I just can't vote for Shane Douglas in anything but a biggest Douchebag tournament. I know that ECW is probably where Shane Douglas had his best moments of his pathetic career, but even with hardcore rules, could he beat a legend like Verne Gagne? You want to talk hardcore, in his old folks home, Verne shoved a 97 year old guy after getting into a fight with him. If Verne is harsh enough to break the hip of a 97 year old, he certainly would have whipped Shane Douglas's sorry ass in his prime.

 

[The Crock]

Even though this is in ECW, Shane Douglas' home turf, it would be an absolute travesty for Verne Gagne to not advance. I understand that people may not be familiar with his accolades and while I understand that, I feel that it would be wrong for Verne to lose because of that, or because of a silly stipulation. Verne Gagne is one of the most decorated professional wrestlers of all time and is a 16-time world heavyweight champion. Furthermore, Gagne was one of the top draws in an era that included the likes of Lou Thesz and Killer Kowalski. The man was no pushover physically either, as he was a great amateur wrestler, even once being an alternate for the United States Olympic team.

Shane Douglas can use every weapon in his disposal, but that doesn't mean it will be anything foreign to Gagne. Gagne's been in cage matches, he's been in a violent environment before. He'll be able to hang with Douglas there, but in terms of just wrestling -- it's not even close. Gagne's beaten much tougher competition than Shane Douglas -- guys like Mad Dog Vachon (a legit bad ass), Nick Bockwinkel, Gene Kiniski, and Harley Race (another bad ass) have all fallen to Gagne. There's absolutely no reason to think Shane Douglas could pull this off, hardcore environment or not.

 

[Gelgarin]

Let us see; one of the greatest legends of all time, responsible for single handedly saving technical wrestling and inventor of more holds than any other man in the entire history of the business... against a colossal douchbag who accomplished nothing in his career.

Now, lets get straight to the elephant in the room. Shane Douglas is allowed to use weapons giving his an advantage. Verne Gagne was never a hardcore wrestler, preferring to coast by on legitimate talent instead. A steal chair gives Shane Douglass an undeniable edge, but I intend to refute the argument that this should grant him victory using three different arguments.

Argument the first: using weapons is not hard.

Shane Douglas was considered good at making use of a hardcore environment. Now, go and read some interviews featuring Shane Douglas expressing his views on the world; then come back and tell me that anything he excelled in can possibly be difficult to master. To put it in layman's terms, Shane Douglas is shit - and there is no logical reason why Verne Gagne can't swing a kendo stick just as hard.

Argument the second: The grizzly bear argument.

Suppose for a moment that Mr. Douglass was in the ring, in a conventional singles match, against a 1,600lb grizzly bear. He's going to get fucking torn limb from limb isn't he? Now suppose we tweak the match type into an ECW style contest to give Mr Douglass a bit of an advantage (after all, most bears can't swing steal chairs or wrestle unenjoyable spotfests). The result, even with the advantageous match type, Shane Douglass is still going to get torn limb from limb.

The reason? Because he's utterly outclassed in every way. These days nobody on wrestlezone is close to ******ed enough to seriously think that Shane Douglass was a superior wrestler to Verne Gagne, so don't let the match type case you to vote against reality. After all... bears and stuff.

Argument the third: give me a fucking break.

OK; come on... it's Verne 'fucking' Gagne. Hands down the man is one of the most talented competitors ever to lace up a pair of boots (cliche!).

I didn't think I'd have much trouble with him. But he fooled me. He looks small, but actually he's stronger than most big wrestlers. His smooth muscles are very deceiving.
And does he know how to wrestle? Wow! He has the best liming and leverage of any wrestler I know. And as for pure guts, he'll die before he gives up.
He's very smart in the ring, fast and aggressive. If there are any better contenders around than he is I just hope I have a very good night when I have to meet them in the ring.

See that quote? I'm sure you've guessed it's referring to Verne Gagne, but do you know who it's from? Lou Thesz, that's who. When Lou Thesz thinks that somebody is that good then who the fuck are you to argue?

Verne Gagne was arguably wrestling's first major TV stars. He was one of the best legit and kayfabe workers the game ever saw. He has victories over absolute titans such as Thesz, O'Connor and Carpenter. He was the biggest star that one of the must successful promotions in US history ever had. He was one of the best promoters of all time. He also trained Flair, Steamboat, Henning, Backlund and close to a hundred other stars - changing wrestling forever.

Let me repeat; Verne Gagne changed wrestling forever.

What did Shane Douglass ever do?

Vote Gagne.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Shane Douglas sucks. I didn't care for him while he was with ECW (despite being the only ECW fan to feel that way), and outside of ECW, he really fucking sucked. Like, hard.

No way he beats Gagne. Even if I thought he had a chance, I wouldn't vote that way. If I were to compile my most hated wrestlers of all time, Shane might take the #1 spot. Top five, no question.

Gagne, and if you see it any other way, take inevitable embarrassment into account, and keep it to yourself.

 

[AnvilForever]

Even with Extreme Rules, the only way Douglas wins is by outside interference from Triple Threat, and there is no way I'm going to entertain the thought of a jerk like Douglas beating down a legend like Gagne with the help of Candido and Bulldozer.

This will be a long, violent match, but Gagne gets a decisive victory.

 

[The Brain]

I don't care if this is the ECW region, a medicore wrestler like Shane Douglas is not going over Verne Gagne. Obviously ECW has the reputation of hardcore wrestling and weapons but I don't remember that being a part of Douglas's game. He's a Ric Flair wannabe and stuck more to a traditional style match. I'm sure he'd want to prove himself against a legend like Gagne. I don't expect weapons to be a factor and Gagne gets an easy victory here.

 

[PsychoBlack]

Shane Douglas like many of the other ECW alums accomplished nothing outside of the indie. Vern Gagne is one of the most influential wrestlers of all time. There is no conceivable way to convince me Shane can beat Vern no matter what type of match it is.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Verne takes this easily.

So what if he never wrestled ECW Rules - he overcame guys like 'Mad Dog' Vachon and Larry 'the Ax' Hennig who were not shy about bending the odd rule. He had success against every style of wrestler he came up against - rulebreakers, check; technical guys, check; powerhouses, check.

Shane Douglas? It says everything about Shane that his most famous moment in the mainstream was getting handed the IC Belt by HBK before losing it within the quarter hour to Razor Ramon. Even his importance to ECW should be tempered against the fact that he was never used by the WWF to any degree once they owned the intellectual rights.

 

[NSL]

I hate posting after Gelgarin

Let me make this clear first: I'm voting Gagne. Shane tore apart guys like him throughout his career, in every interview he ever did. Verne would be more than a bit pissed, and would win handily.

However...I'd at least like to think that Shane would get in his head a little, and have the crowd at his side. May not sound like much, but that's how you excelled in ECW. He'd be more creative with the weapons (which he'd need), and he'd at least draw some blood. I know anyone can swing a chair, but it's the other things you can do with it. Shane is the same guy that broke a guy's neck with a DDT onto a belt. With a chair, there's more opportunities.

No matter how hard he tries though, Verne Gagne picks up the win here.

 

[syxxeffect]

Verne Gagne takes this one easily. Weapons or not Gagne has more wrestling talent on his worst day than Shane Douglas.

 

[IHW]

Verne Gange would demolish. Douglas simply couldn't beat Gange in a one on one pro-wrestling match; ECW rules or not.

 

[shattered dreams]

Argument the second: The grizzly bear argument.

Suppose for a moment that Mr. Douglass was in the ring, in a conventional singles match, against a 1,600lb grizzly bear. He's going to get fucking torn limb from limb isn't he? Now suppose we tweak the match type into an ECW style contest to give Mr Douglass a bit of an advantage (after all, most bears can't swing steal chairs or wrestle unenjoyable spotfests). The result, even with the advantageous match type, Shane Douglass is still going to get torn limb from limb.

The reason? Because he's utterly outclassed in every way. These days nobody on wrestlezone is close to ******ed enough to seriously think that Shane Douglass was a superior wrestler to Verne Gagne, so don't let the match type case you to vote against reality. After all... bears and stuff.

I don't think any company would book one of their best performers getting mauled by a bear. This is E-C-Fn-W. The trained bear would put a paw on Douglas and he would fall through a conveniently placed table and overly blade. Then he would go under the ring, get a shotgun and win the match. Don't make the mistake of considering this as an argument for Douglas. It is just an argument on something I consider more interesting than the obvious fact that Gagne should win this match.

 

[Tastycles]

Glad to see Gagne is winning. I'm sure the Gagne ammunition will come out in due course, but the main thing to note that he was successful in NWA, very successful, before he ever set up AWA, so no tired arguments along those lines please.

Onto Douglas, he was a big deal in ECW, but that's about it, and was garbage elsewhere. The thing is, the good wrestlers that passed through ECW had one stint then went on to bigger and better things. Douglas never really left for a long period of time and had to keep coming back. I don't think the locale matters, Gagne would beat Shane Douglas in any setting.

 

[Natural Selection]

Shane is the same guy that broke a guy's neck with a DDT onto a belt. With a chair, there's more opportunities.

Don't get me wrong Verne wins by more then a mile. But on the neck thing alone after hearing both sides and the footage I tend to believe Shane on this one. Gary thought he was going to sell that DDT better then any DDT ever and he fucked up thus breaking his neck. Shane is a complete fucking douche known to re write history at times but was a leader to the guys he worked in that ring with. And self obsessed asshole or not Gary fucked that DDT up NOT Shane. This is all side topic though. Verne wins over a bloodied Shane after 15-20 minutes of insanely violent wrestling.

 

[Peoples_Champ]

I respect Verne Gagne for everything he's contributed to the sport, and I know he's a bonafide champ. But this is ECW rules, and as much of a bitch Shane Douglas is, voting for anyone other than him in an ECW Rules match is a mistake.

Shane Douglas wins by referee screwjob.

 

[Silly Willy Nilly Vanilly in the Milly]

Verne Gagne was one of the greatest wrestlers in history, but Shane Douglas has homefield advantage here.
And that's probably the only reason why I vote Douglas.
Hard choice, would prove a very close match.

 

[Davi323]

Now that this has been swapped over to WCW from ECW, Shane Douglas stands zero chance. It was not a very good chance before, even with his ECW experience, but in the WCW region, with conventional rules, Verne Gagne would crush him. Any hope Douglas had went out the door as soon as KB realized the mistake. Verne Gagne is one of the best wrestlers of all time...what is Shane Douglas, except a douchebag with a grossly inflated sense of self worth? No way Douglas can match Verne's wrestling ability, and without being able to resort to hardcore tactics as a backup, Douglas gets massacred.