Was Bash at the Beach 94 A Historic Event?

[The Brain]

It seems that the majority people here feel the main event of WrestleMania VIII should have been Hulk Hogan vs. Ric Flair. The two most dominant stars of their respected promotions were finally in the same place at the same time. It was a no brainer. It should have been an historic event. It didn’t happen. Failing to deliver one of the marquee matches of a generation when the opportunity was there is looked at as a missed opportunity.

Fast forward two years and the two stars found themselves in the same promotion again, this time down south. The promoters of WCW weren’t going to miss out on the opportunity the WWF missed and immediately booked Hogan vs. Flair at Bash at the Beach. The match went down as expected. After all they hype Hogan got his hand raised and was the WCW champion. In my opinion this is not looked at as an historic event. Why is that?

Is it because the match didn’t have the same buzz around it after it fell through two years earlier? Is it because even though they hadn’t had a heavily hyped singles match Hogan and Flair had crossed paths many times in the WWF? Is it because the match took place at an event with zero history instead of a premier event like Starrcade? Is it because the WWF was better at promoting events and hyping its past?

Or am I just wrong and this event is remembered as a historic one? I’ve always said I’m a big WWF guy and just a casual WCW guy. Is my indifference toward WCW clouding my perception here? What are your thoughts on Bash at the Beach 94 and its place in wrestling history?

 

[Marks "R" Us]

Personally I feel a couple things kept it from achieving historic status. The main problem in my mind is that it was too fast, Hogan showed up with massive fanfare and was instantly booked in the title match. It made it look like Flair was just was jsut being fed to Hogan (which he basically was). Had Hogan had to earn a title shot it would have added time to build both the fued as a whole and the historic importance of their first big match. It wasn't like Hogan needed the title right away to make an impact his name already spoke more than any title they could put on him. Flair could have set up several roadblocks for Hogan saying he hadn't proven himself in WCW while continueing the fued with Sting he had going on at the time and Hogan could tear through whatever lackeys Flair sent his way. The whole time the keep building up each other and their eventual match in their promos. It just would have made it much bigger in the end in my opinion.

The other big issue also stems from how quickly they rushed the match, and that is simply WCW at that point was much smaller that WWF. It would be like if TNA was able to sign Goldberg vs. Austin and put it on PPV two weeks later. Give the audiance a chance to find out what you have. And at least in the TNA example they would have the advantage of the internet. I remember watching wrestling in 94 and by the time i knew WCW had Hogan he was already champ. The "historic" match was basically just a footnote.

 

[Scooter85]

I think since the match was so rushed that it should have ended in a DQ. That way both mean still come out on top & it doesn't make it seem like Flair was just keeping the title warm for hogan . They could have continue the build by having hogan facing all comers to get to Flair while continuing the feud between flair & sting . That way u could have set up a tag match at holloween havoc between sting & hogan vs flair & a random opponent. But make the stipulation if hogans team win his gets a shit at the title at Starcade . That way u have months of build for perhaps the biggest march of that time .

 

[bigray215]

I think WCW should've waited to have Hogan vs Flair at Starrcade instead of having it immediately at Bash At The Bash. I agree with Marks "R" Us when he said that they should've had Ric Flair setup roadblocks for Hogan to prove that he is worthy of a title shot.

 

[DanTheMan3:16]

The problem i think is the predictabliaby of this match, while this was Flair vs Hogan, i mean cmon though they wouldnt have hogan come in, pay him the largest salary in wrestling history, just to lose. So definitly he was going to win so that might hurt it. Other than that I dont think so, Yes it would have better at Starrcade, or maybe even Great American Bash. However I think it is very historic because this was wcw biggest ppv buy until starrcade 1997. And the reaction of hogan could only speak in volumes.

So as far as records go Yes Historic, as far as match goes I say so. But could have been bigger at Starrcade instead

 

[enviousdominous]

I think you hit the nail on the head when you suggested that the match might have lacked appeal for being held at a transitional PPV like Bash at the Beach. I remember the build to the Hogan Andre match went on for the better part of a year and their died never really ended, Hogan beat Flair and that was all that could be said for their encounter. I rip on Hogan a lot, so my biased imagination wants to believe that Hogan wanted Flair to look pathetic and thus refused to work an extended series with Flair.

 

[klunderbunker]

I agree that it's not historic. Now the question is why wasn't it.

There are a few reasons I think.

I'm not sure I buy the theory that it's because it was at Bash at the Beach. The NWO formed there. Cena had probably his best match ever at MITB. Beach Blast 92 might be the best PPV WCW ever put on. Just because a show isn't a big marquee name doesn't mean it can't be great and have major moments.

To me, it's because the match just happened. There wasn't any surprise to it at all. The match was announced, Hogan was declared the favorite, Hogan won. Hogan being world champion isn't anything new. He had been world champion for most of the 80s and a good while in the 90s. This was nothing new. Flair wasn't made to look as any kind of a threat to Hogan and the match was very basic. He looked like any one of a dozen other people Hogan had beaten. Why should we look at this any differently?

The other issue I think a lot of people have with it is how it came about. the title match was set up at a COTC where Flair unified the two world titles and then attacked Sting. Hogan came out for the save and said he wanted a title shot. he got it and won it. That's not exactly "three years to be a champion, that's a long time" now is it?

To me it was a combination of those things: a lack of build and a lack of anything new. That doesn't make for a very exciting match.

 

[Defekt]

I think there are a few reasons this match isn't viewed as historic.

1. As a whole, the popularity of pro wrestling had decreased greatly by 1994.

2. Few people watched WCW in 1994. Hogan's arrival helped, but it was still a couple more years before business picked up, and it was seen as equal with the WWE.

3. Hogan's stardom had faded by 1994, as he had been out of action over a year, and the WWE, the most visible wrestling company, had replaced him with smaller, more action oriented wrestlers.

4. The match had no build. Flair was never booked like The Ultimate Warrior or Andre the Giant. He was a cheating heel who always managed to keep the title. Without a good back story the match is kinda lopsided.

5. Lastly, Hogan and Flair have had dozens of matches since then. Historic matches are often (but not always) rare encounters between huge stars, but Flair and Hogan have been feuding on and off for years.

 

[god-soldier]

I think it was a historic event why well I will tell you as a die hard wrestling fan it was a match that I had been waiting for since the late 80's. Hogan vs Flair is what I had wanted for a long time in my eyes the real ultimate challenge!!! Just because it was in WCW didn't make a difference too me just as long as they had the match that was the most important part it didn't matter where they had it as ling as it was on pay per view and for a world title if it wasn't then it would be meaning less but since it was at the bash at the beach it was still historic event. If it was at starrcade it would make no difference because they would have deliveried the same kind of match it just would have had more story behind it but we all knew we wanted the match it would make no sense to drag out the match 6 months longer it would have gone stale because the build up would have taken too long we were past all that by the time bash at the beach took place because it should have happened 2yrs ago by now they had too strike while it was still hor and fresh in everyone's mind it made sense to have it then. If you look at bash at the beach history after that event it was always a big event because it had all the big events it was second to starrcade and as important as summerslam so WCW succeeded in making a big event mean something so yes it was historic because ot started off with biggest most antcipated match in wrestling history and unforgetable moments would follow

 

[thebarber]

Hulk Hogan signing in June 1994 and being thrown straight into a main event did not help.
Having Hogan not wrestle a lick beforehand didnt help the cause either.
I feel the match sold for 6 months and being the headline act at Starrcade 1994 would have been a great build, certainly more appealing than Hogan vs Beefcake was/

WCW was also a massive step backwards in fans eyes. Hogan past his WWE prime and Flair being looked at inferior by WWE FANS I think did not help either. Vince had the best opportunity to sell and cash in on this match at Wrestlemania 8. But to answer the question, to a degree Id suggest it was an Historic event, heel I look at BITB as their Summerslam in WCW.

From memoy, the card also had Steve Austin vs Ricky Steamboat in Steamboats last match where he hurt his back. Certainly a great card and under appreciated

 

[Big Sexy]

It was all about the build. WWE and WCW both fucked up Flair/Hogan. The WWE had the great build but then for whatever reason never followed up by actually having the match. WCW had the match but they had it immediately with no build. Hogan had never been in WCW before and they just had him come in and win the title in his first match, on his first ppv.

What they should have done was debut Hogan against a guy like Vader and keep Flair feuding with Sting over the belt. Then maybe at Halloween Havoc you have a Hogan/Sting vs Flair/Vader tag match to start getting the Hogan/Flair feud into full swing. Then at Starrcade you have the epic showdown where Hogan gets the belt. WCW was way too impatient with Hogan coming in.

 

[bigbootydaddyV]

I think a part of it not being as memorable or hyped was Hogan just wasn't as big a star anymore, figuratively or more importantly Physically. He was a shell of his former self once he was off the roids and it just wasn't as fun watching a hogan match to me. Plus, at this point his rep wasn't worth nearly as much due to the steroid scandal and the crap movies/tv he was putting out. The match itself was also very rushed and didn't have a proper build to it and like you said was just made to capitalize on WWF not doing it. Then again, I can't think of too many matches in WCW that had that big historic feel to it, they never had a match with enough hype to have that rep.

 

[MondayNight90s]

We have to remember that it was Eric Bischoff that brought Hogan in. Now, hindsight is 20/20 but other than the year long buildup to Starrcade 97, Bischoff was known for hotshotting matches that he could have milked for a bigger pay day. A great example of this was Hogan vs Goldberg. Now, that's not exactly the classic that Flair/Hogan should have been but Hogan/Goldberg could have been built up for the rest of the year toward another huge Starrcade draw. As Marks "R" Us said, it was like Flair was just being fed to Hogan.

 

[The Eighties]

It had a few problems from the hotshot booking, lack of feud build and Hogan's damaged persona and look post-steroid scandal.

However the short answer as to why it isn't seen as historic is because it didn't happen in the WWF/E. To the bulk of the wrestling fanbase throughout the world WWE is wrestling, for things to matter they have to happen in WWE, and to Vince's credit it's down to his ability to market matches and occasions as a big deal; better than anyone else ever has in the business.

 

[Jackal960]

I think there are a few reasons this match isn't viewed as historic.

1. As a whole, the popularity of pro wrestling had decreased greatly by 1994.

2. Few people watched WCW in 1994. Hogan's arrival helped, but it was still a couple more years before business picked up, and it was seen as equal with the WWE.

3. Hogan's stardom had faded by 1994, as he had been out of action over a year, and the WWE, the most visible wrestling company, had replaced him with smaller, more action oriented wrestlers.

4. The match had no build. Flair was never booked like The Ultimate Warrior or Andre the Giant. He was a cheating heel who always managed to keep the title. Without a good back story the match is kinda lopsided.

5. Lastly, Hogan and Flair have had dozens of matches since then. Historic matches are often (but not always) rare encounters between huge stars, but Flair and Hogan have been feuding on and off for years.

I agree with almost all of the points. Mainly WCW not being as big at that time. To give an even more extreme example if it was an indy match between the two, it wouldn't even be that big (and it wasn't even a historic event) so the company and it's situation matters. WCW was not a big company with many viewers like WWE at that time. There is so much you can hype with a smaller company. If it was in WWE 2 years before it would make a big deal.

As years past, it would never have the chance to be recognized as a historic event. We are often reading WWE's side of the story when we read history. WWE wouldn't promote a match like that in the later years, and since there is no WCW, you can't see a glimpse of the match in opening segments of any program today. But you can see Rock vs Hogan again and again as a historic moment (im not trying to take anything from that match). So it's a bit about promoting the history as well.

 

[JacobTrinchera]

The problem with the match was that it was far too late to care by the time they did it. 1994 was the tail end of Flair as a great worker and the Hogan character was getting beyond stale. WrestleMania VIII was really their last chance to do it justice.

The weird thing is that Hogan did have a match with Flair in the WWE about 10 years later when he came back.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Actually WCW ratings and buy rates were on a significant upswing from late 93 on, largely due to Flair's feuds with Vader & Steamboat. WWE numbers were better but they were way down (they declined significantly with the Brett Hart New Generation thing). No doubt Hogan's character was stale but he was still the biggest draw in the industry at the time.

Much of the appeal was not that the match had never taken place, just it never took place on a televised event or with a title change. Hogan & Flair had dozens of matches in WWE, all ending in count outs or DQs, both getting wins.

As for historic, it was the 1st PPV Match between the two biggest stars of the 80s, the only real Dream Match of the time, and It laid the foundation for the NWO lead revolution 2 yrs later. With no Hogan there wouldnt have been an NWO.
Now I agree they should have built more to the match. Flair was way over as a fan favorite but fearing Hogan wouldnt be cheered they hastily turned Flair almost like clock work as soon as Hulk came in. However, how much of this was Hogan's fault, didnt he want the title right away, would he have waited out a 2ndary feud with someone like Vader ? I do believe Bischoff wanted the instant ratings pay off, Flair put him on the upswing, he thought Hogan would put him over the top.
Drawing out the intensity and interest, holding off till Starrcade would have made long term business sense, maybe added to the legacy of the encounter. Still, considering it was the 80's Dream Match on PPV, it truly re ignited the wrestling wars which pretty much died after 91, the match and initial WCW feud are historic. Realistically, WWE never should have put this on the house show circuit leading into Survivor Series. Vince should have had Flair feud with Piper and Hogan with Taker in 91 with Flair chasing Hogan desperate for a match. They should have had their 1st bout at Royal Rumble with Flair going over, and with the idea that a 2nd win would destroy Hulkamania and Hogan's legacy forever, Hogan should have gone over at W-Mania. For a variety of reasons we didnt get that, maybe thats what upsets fans the most, WCW Could have done it a little better but WWE had it 1st and they fumbled badly.

 

[MondayNight90s]

I agree with almost all of the points. Mainly WCW not being as big at that time. To give an even more extreme example if it was an indy match between the two, it wouldn't even be that big (and it wasn't even a historic event) so the company and it's situation matters. WCW was not a big company with many viewers like WWE at that time. There is so much you can hype with a smaller company. If it was in WWE 2 years before it would make a big deal.

As years past, it would never have the chance to be recognized as a historic event. We are often reading WWE's side of the story when we read history. WWE wouldn't promote a match like that in the later years, and since there is no WCW, you can't see a glimpse of the match in opening segments of any program today. But you can see Rock vs Hogan again and again as a historic moment (im not trying to take anything from that match). So it's a bit about promoting the history as well.

I agree that it was about 2 years too late. If they had done this match back in 1992 at Wrestlemania VIII like they had originally planned, it would have been historic. They had the perfect setup with Flair coming in with the NWA belt and the "Real Champion" angle and Flair screwing Hogan out of the title vs The Undertaker and then eventually winning the WWF title at the Royal Rumble. WWF had the perfect opportunity to do this match right but for whatever reason they decided not to go through with it. I had read somewhere that after the Hogan vs Flair match in MSG (which you can find on the Greatest Stars of the 90's DVD) that some WWF officials didn't feel it got the reaction at MSG they thought it would so they scrapped the WM plans. Does anyone know if this is true?

Anyhow, WCW had almost no setup for this angle. Hogan just came in and won the title in his first match. WCW wasn't as big at the time and they brought Hogan in to try to legitimize WCW and bring it more into the mainstream.

I think that maybe WCW thought that Hogan would bring fans from WWF and maybe they felt that they could be lazy with the angle because Hogan fans would have already seen the buildup with Flair in WWF and there was no need to explain the back story between the two of them. Anyone else think this is a possibility?

 

[FlairFan2003]

The main reason Flair-Hogan didnt main event WM8 is that Vince and company decided to distance themselves from characters directly linked to the ongoing Federal Investigation into the Steroid Scandal. Remember, Hogan was advertised heavily as Flair's opponent for WM, then they changed gears with Hogan suddenly deciding he wanted to retire and would rather face Sid Justice.

If it wasnt for the steroid scandal, we likely would have gotten an all out Hogan Flair feud and WM main event. Remember Piper also disappeared after WM8, another key figure in the Fed case.

Now there were rumors, never substantiated, that the reason for the whole convoluted Taker-Hogan title held up story came about was that Vince wanted Flair as champ going into WM, thinking there was bigger money to be made with Hogan chasing him but Hogan refused to lose the title to Flair unless it was a ridiculous screw job like what they did for Taker. Vince wanted Flair looking strong heading into the bout and wanted a more clean finish but when Hogan refused they created The Royal Rumble scenario where Flair basically beats the entire roster in a hour long marathon. It was the best way to get a dominating title win without directly beating Hulk. The whole thing became moot due to the steroid scandal and the feeling that Hogan and Piper needed to be off TV if they were appearing on the witness stand.

 

[FlairFan2003]

As far as the MSG match is concerned, that actually took place in 91, before the RR where Flair won the belt. If officials werent happy with crowd reactions it would have made no sense to put the belt on Flair two months later.

And yes, WCW did trade on the initial WWE feud, actually promoting the fact that they never wrestled on PPV and their previous matches produced no clear winner. In their defense, its not like wrestling fans didnt know who Hogan was when he came to WCW, they could have handled some aspects of the feud better, but it wasnt like Hogan walked into WCW and no one realized what a big deal he was.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

The build, or the lack of it, was the problem as most people have pointed out. Consider what happened in WWF when Flair came in with the NWA belt. He proclaimed himself as the real world champion and went after Hogan, screwed him out of the title and went on to win it himself at Royal Rumble in an epic match. Even though, it was quite apparent that Flair was going after Hogan the whole time, the actual suggestion of Hulk and Ric actually facing each other in a match was not made until about six months after Flair had debuted.

Fast forward two years later in WCW. Hogan arrives, Flair is champion, there is no build up and Hogan wins almost as an afterthought. Hogan goes on to defeat several one off challengers in the next few months to solidify his position in WCW and Flair, who was supposed to be the Lex Luthor to Hogan's Superman, is also remembered as a one off challenger. Instead of it being about Hogan and Flair and the fight of a lifetime, it became all about Hogan, the wrestling deity who had come to grace WCW with his presence.

Instead of planning an epic feud between two of the biggest superstars in wrestling history at that point, WCW went for a quickie between the two and a lame-ass Dungeon of Doom story to follow it up. You really got to question the sanity of the bookers at times.

 

[spaldoni]

I think the problem was it happened to fast. They should of built it up for Starrcade. Starrcade 94 could of been an epic event. It also could of been an historic event because WCW had Savage as well. Could you imagine Flair vs Hogan and keeping Austin as US champ and have him defend against Savage. It would of been a true supercard and would of gone down in history as one of the best pay per views ever.

 

[HBsam31]

I remember how bad I wanted to see Hogan and Flair at Mania 8. I was really disappointed that it didn't happen. It was shortly after Mania 8 though that I realized there were other wrestlers besides Hulk Hogan. I was a die hard Hulkamaniac as a kid and I would say this was about the time it was starting to wear off. When Hogan joined WCW Hogan was incredibly stale. He got big pops when he debuted, but it was nothing like the crowd reactions he used to get. I also attribute that to the Red and Yellow Hogan never quite clicking with the WCW audience. He was just different somehow when he debuted in WCW. My worship for Hogan was almost completely gone by this point also. I am not speaking for all Hogan fans, but I think the time of the Flair match had something to do with it not really being a historic event. Add to the fact the match itself was incredibly rushed and predictable. As my friends and I watched the match we knew that there was no way Flair would win. He was fed to Hogan. Correct me if wrong, but wasn't the Flair match hogan's first match ever in WCW? To me that match could have been held at any WCW ppv and it wouldn't have been any more historic. All said I believe it wasn't historic because of the time it took place, and because of the way the match was presented to us.

 

[The Brain]

I made this thread six months ago so with after some time and reading some responses I'll add a bit more.

I remember how bad I wanted to see Hogan and Flair at Mania 8. I was really disappointed that it didn't happen. It was shortly after Mania 8 though that I realized there were other wrestlers besides Hulk Hogan.

Yeah I think after the WM8 match was scrapped the ship had sailed on Hogan vs. Flair. They worked house shows together and televised tag matches so the thrill of them being in the same ring together was wearing off. Once the biggest show of the year past without a one on one match between the two I think the one time ultimate dream match faded away.

I was a die hard Hulkamaniac as a kid and I would say this was about the time it was starting to wear off. When Hogan joined WCW Hogan was incredibly stale. He got big pops when he debuted, but it was nothing like the crowd reactions he used to get. I also attribute that to the Red and Yellow Hogan never quite clicking with the WCW audience.

For years the southern fan base of NWA/WCW were almost conditioned to hate Hogan (or at least not like him). The NWA was considered real rasslin with the likes of Ric Flair, Barry Windham, and Dusty Rhodes where as the WWF was looked at as a circus with Hogan as the ringmaster. Now all of a sudden they were supposed to welcome Hogan with open arms. Not everyone was buying it.

He was just different somehow when he debuted in WCW. My worship for Hogan was almost completely gone by this point also. I am not speaking for all Hogan fans, but I think the time of the Flair match had something to do with it not really being a historic event.

You know what was different about him? I didn't notice it as much at the time and didn't think of it when I originally created this thread but one main difference was Hulk's appearance. He was a hell of a lot smaller than he was in his prime. The steroid scandal hit the WWF in 1992 and not so coincidentally that's when Hulk left the company. I'm assuming he got off the roids and there was definitely a difference in the way he looked. He wasn't a super hero anymore. He didn't look like the Incredible Hulk Hogan anymore. Also we hadn't seen Hulk in two years. He had a couple matches in the spring of 93 but he hadn't been a full time wrestler since WM8 over two years earlier. Part of the reason he got a job with WCW was because he was filming Thunder In Paradise in the studio next to where WCW was filmed. It was convienent. I just don't think the WCW fans were buying into Hulkamania. The fans who attended the tv tapings were but they were tourists who were checking out Universal Studios while on vacation. The wrestling fans didn't care as much.

Add to the fact the match itself was incredibly rushed and predictable. As my friends and I watched the match we knew that there was no way Flair would win. He was fed to Hogan. Correct me if wrong, but wasn't the Flair match hogan's first match ever in WCW? To me that match could have been held at any WCW ppv and it wouldn't have been any more historic. All said I believe it wasn't historic because of the time it took place, and because of the way the match was presented to us.

I don't even mind the match with Flair being Hogan's first in WCW. Normally I wouldn't like that but when we're dealing with someone as famous as Hogan I think it's ok. With that said the match could have used some more build. Maybe some old school videos of Hogan training to get back in ring shape. Go on Regis to promote the match. Simple stuff like that. I guess one of the answers to my original question is the match wasn't historic because Hogan himself, and wrestling in general just wasn't very popular in 1994.

 

[HBsam31]

Wow, now that you say that Hogan was indeed much smaller. I think that really has more to do with it than people will admit. When I looked at him he just didn't seem like that same Hulk Hogan. Like you said he was no longer larger than life. I must have missed this thread the first time around because I definitely would have posted then. Great thread.