Vince Russo Dragging TNA Down?

[SpiralHands]

Vince Russo as many know is on the TNA creative team along with Dutch Mantel and a few others, thing is I just finished reading the Death of WCW and boy he really did speed the process up. He came up with stupid matches, stupid feuds, stupid skits and ridiculous gimmicks, and I thought to myself man isn't this what TNA is now? A comedic gimmick show? I know he had been there since the beginning and so I guess you could say he has had some success within TNA, but the man who apparently was behind the Attitude Era as he likes to tell everyone is doing lousy at the moment.

Is Vince really that good anyway? And will TNA do alot better without him?

I agree he should be gone from TNA his decisions and ideas are awful as they were in the final stages of WCW. TNA please fire this guy hes never been any good.

So what do you think is he dragging TNA down?

 

[ImpactPlayer27]

I've heard the bad things about Russo both in WCW's demise and TNA's downward spiral as it stands now. Konnan answered one of my questions on here saying how Dutch and Jeff are to blame with the way TNA is. While I agree with that, I don't deny that Russo has a bit of the blame too. Since he came to TNA, we had AJ Styles become what he is now. The short lived heel turn with Chris Sabin which nobody liked. Splitting up AMW, Pacman Jones becoming a tag champ and the godawful bits we been seeing lately not to mention Christopher Daniels status and nobody seeming to have a clue whats going on with him. Something is dragging TNA down and it may not just be Russo. So I'm saying he's got part of the blame but I will say this as a sidenote with Against All Odds around the corner. If the X-Division comes to an end at that PPV, then I'm done with TNA and possibly wrestling itself. After the way the WWE has turned out and now TNA doing the same thing and becoming WCW 2.0, there's only so much a man can take

 

[Slave To Petey]

I can't stand Russo at all. I enjoyed watching TNA better when Scott D'Amore was Head Booker. The X-Division seemed to be hell of a lot better back then. It seemed to be the compleat opposite of WWE with more wrestling than other things.

 

[Slyfox696]

Wow...

First of all, Vince Russo does not book TNA. He may offer creative input, but Dutch and Jarrett are the two who actually book it. They decide what goes on, who wrestles, etc. Russo then takes that booking and puts it into a script. Basically, he's a scribe, with some creative advice. So, to bash TNA based on the fact that Russo's there is stupid as Russo really does very little booking.

Secondly, with regards to WCW, WCW was the absolute pits when Russo showed up. Eric Bischoff literally ran that company into the ground, and after he got FIRED, WCW asked Russo to make a quick turn-around. He was asked to put WCW on top immediately, which was just a foolish question. So, Russo tried a lot of different, outlandish things to try and put wCW back on the map and in a hurry. Obviously they failed, for good reason, but Russo was really put in an unfair position, at least with how to regard him 8 years later.

I can't stand Russo at all. I enjoyed watching TNA better when Scott D'Amore was Head Booker. The X-Division seemed to be hell of a lot better back then. It seemed to be the compleat opposite of WWE with more wrestling than other things.

You enjoyed the X-Division more???

Let's review the X-Division under D'Amore...

Joe, Styles and Daniels are the only X wrestlers to ever get air time and then are ALL moved out of the X division at the exact same time without ever putting any over in their place...

Samoa Joe buries EVERYONE in the X-Division and then moves on to the heavyweight division without giving anyone a rub to take over...

The X-Division championship is given to Low Ki, who never appears on Impact and goes a couple months without given any kind of marquee.

D'Amore tries to use the X-Division Jackass to get the X-Division over...where instead of using the high flying quick paced matches that got the X-Division over in the first place, was replaced with bowling balls rolled into crotches and shopping cart kamikazes...


Yes...clearly the X-Division was so good under D'Amore.

 

[Slave To Petey]

Actully all that stuff happened AFTER Scott D'Amore was removed as Head Booker. Because everything you said happened in 2007 when Russo came in towards the end of 2006. D'Amore was removed in the begining of 2007.

 

[Slyfox696]

Actully all that stuff happened AFTER Scott D'Amore was removed as Head Booker. Because everything you said happened in 2007 when Russo came in towards the end of 2006. D'Amore was removed in the begining of 2007.

No, actually, it wasn't.

All that stuff happened in 2006, before October. Trust me. Look it up.

Low Ki lost the belt to Sabin at Bound For Glorry 2006, ending his reign which was never on TV to begin with. Lethal watched Jackass before his match at No Surrender 2006, which is in September.

All that happened before October 2006, which was when Russo came in.

Get your facts straight.

 

[Slave To Petey]

Trust me D'Amore isn't that stupid. The only reason Sabin won the belt was the simple fact that it was in his hometown. Because he lost that same week on iMPACT! D'Amore had nothing to do with the whole Jackass deal and he wouldn't turn his own guys into compleat jobbers and curtian jerkers.

Just because it was announced that Russo was working with them doesn't mean he hadn't been working with TNA before then. D'Amore didn't do EVERYTHING other people wrote matches and segments.

 

[Slyfox696]

Trust me D'Amore isn't that stupid. The only reason Sabin won the belt was the simple fact that it was in his hometown. Because he lost that same week on iMPACT! D'Amore had nothing to do with the whole Jackass deal and he wouldn't turn his own guys into compleat jobbers and curtian jerkers.

Just because it was announced that Russo was working with them doesn't mean he hadn't been working with TNA before then. D'Amore didn't do EVERYTHING other people wrote matches and segments.

You're kidding me right?

D'Amore WAS the head booker during the Jackass angle. This is not debateable. The new booking team did not take over until the Monday after Bound For Glory 2006. This, too, is not debateable. The X-Division was completely buried by Samoa Joe during D'Amore's tenure as head booker. The Jackass angle was booked during D'Amore's tenure. The X-Division was completely buried under D'Amore's watch in 2006, in favor of tag team and the main-event. To say anything otherwise is just stupid and wrong.

It is not even a matter of opinion. It's just cold hard fact.

 

[Slave To Petey]

Doesn't mean you can blame everything on D'Amore because you make it seems as if he sits in a room all by himself and writes the whole show. He might have been Head Booker but that doesn't mean he wrote the segment. Don't forget Jeff Jarrett's the one that has the fianl say in everything that happens.

 

[awesomecactus]

INteresting debate here.......Im not sure what side of it i come under..... TNA certainly has problems that can't all be blamed on Russo. On the other hand there are things that, if not a direct result of vince, certainly stem from his invilvement with the company.
I remember hearing that it was his choice to shorten the matches on impact and to have more interview/ storyline segments. i think everyone would agree that we'd all like to see more inring action than comedy skits.
also his disregard for faces and heels bugs me. his feeling that such pigeon holing is passe goes against pretty much the history of the industry. yes i enjoy cheering for the bad guy just cos i shouldnt....but blurring the line means we dont get those amazing moments when the crowd turns on the face or cheers for the heel.

 

[thecruiser]

Wow...

First of all, Vince Russo does not book TNA. He may offer creative input, but Dutch and Jarrett are the two who actually book it. They decide what goes on, who wrestles, etc. Russo then takes that booking and puts it into a script. Basically, he's a scribe, with some creative advice. So, to bash TNA based on the fact that Russo's there is stupid as Russo really does very little booking.

You're mistaken. Have you read that leaked TNA script? Just about, if not all segments of the four Gauntlet episode were produced by Vince Russo. And, that show set up one of the WORST build-ups in wrestling history. They said they would reveal what the winners of the cases won at the Pay-Per-View, then delayed it until the next show, and delayed it until nobody cared any more. While Vince Russo created cutting edge, important story lines in the WWE for the Attitude Era, he virtually destroyed WCW with ******ed angles, ******ed promos, and ******ed gimmicks, and now he is doing the same with TNA.

 

[Slyfox696]

I remember hearing that it was his choice to shorten the matches on impact and to have more interview/ storyline segments.

You actually heard wrong. It was Russo who was pushing for longer matches and more of a focus on in-ring action.

also his disregard for faces and heels bugs me. his feeling that such pigeon holing is passe goes against pretty much the history of the industry. yes i enjoy cheering for the bad guy just cos i shouldnt....but blurring the line means we dont get those amazing moments when the crowd turns on the face or cheers for the heel.

Which guy in TNA right now is not a clearly defined face or heel, other than Samoa Joe, who has been a tweener since he came into the company? Of course, it's really a moot point as Russo doesn't book the show.

You're mistaken. Have you read that leaked TNA script?

Yes...what does that have to do with what I said?

Just about, if not all segments of the four Gauntlet episode were produced by Vince Russo.

Exactly. Is that not what essentially what I said?

They decide what goes on, who wrestles, etc. Russo then takes that booking and puts it into a script. Basically, he's a scribe, with some creative advice.

Yup.

Do you understand what the difference is between booking, writing, and producing a show?

While Vince Russo created cutting edge, important story lines in the WWE for the Attitude Era, he virtually destroyed WCW with ******ed angles, ******ed promos, and ******ed gimmicks, and now he is doing the same with TNA.

Wow...just wow.

First of all, WCW was already dead when Russo came. Ratings were in the sewer as were PPV buyrates. Russo was the doctor who came to revive the patient but failed. WCW was dead before by October 1999, which was when Russo took over.

And, it's amazing how you say that he's destroying TNA, when a) he doesn't book the show, and b) TNA is experiencing the best ratings they've ever had.

 

[SpiralHands]

.also his disregard for faces and heels bugs me. his feeling that such pigeon holing is passe goes against pretty much the history of the industry. yes i enjoy cheering for the bad guy just cos i shouldnt....but blurring the line means we dont get those amazing moments when the crowd turns on the face or cheers for the heel.

Have to agree with this alot, Im not sure if Russo is to blame for this but the whole face and heel situation is stupid at the moment. No one knows whos coming and going and you get people who are stuck in limbo, like Elix Skipper who no one knows whether to cheer or boo, at least in WWE they have clear lines between them, theres not one person I can think of in WWE that I dont know whether they are face or heel.

And going onto a point about AJ Styles, although the skits with him are funny, and AJs good at it and helps him develop a character they are killing the cred of one of thier best stars. Just like Russo did to Flair and Bret Hart in WCW. Although Jeff may have the final say, Russo still thinks this crap up all Jarrett probaly says is yeah sure whatever hes to involved with looking after his kids and rightly so.

 

[iamwrestling]

I've heard the bad things about Russo both in WCW's demise and TNA's downward spiral as it stands now. Konnan answered one of my questions on here saying how Dutch and Jeff are to blame with the way TNA is. While I agree with that, I don't deny that Russo has a bit of the blame too. Since he came to TNA, we had AJ Styles become what he is now. The short lived heel turn with Chris Sabin which nobody liked. Splitting up AMW, Pacman Jones becoming a tag champ and the godawful bits we been seeing lately not to mention Christopher Daniels status and nobody seeming to have a clue whats going on with him. Something is dragging TNA down and it may not just be Russo. So I'm saying he's got part of the blame but I will say this as a sidenote with Against All Odds around the corner. If the X-Division comes to an end at that PPV, then I'm done with TNA and possibly wrestling itself. After the way the WWE has turned out and now TNA doing the same thing and becoming WCW 2.0, there's only so much a man can take

I'm sick of all the hate on Russo. Mantel and Jarrett are to blame, just like Konan said. Chris Harris was behind the splitting up of AMW. He wanted it to end for months and finally got his way. Pacman was all Jarrett's idea. The Christopher Daniels thing was also Mantel. Russo's main ideas were the Abyss/Mitchell storyline which I happen to enjoy, VKM's original characters which gave BG and Kip one last chance at the top of the tag team world for a little bit. And he was also behind the whole Angle alliance v. Christian Coalition storyline which I think reminds me of the attitude era a lot. You never know what to expect in it. Russo doesn't get the chance to put in a lot of his ideas, but the few that he has been able to get past Mantel and Jarrett have all worked out really good.

 

[ch46745]

Vince Russo was the main reason for the death of WCW. Russo should not be praised in the wrestling business. He is the reson why TNA will die. TNA is turning into nothing but a WWE rip off. Russo is the main one behind the ******e gimmics and old, already used storylines the WWE. The Shark boy 24-7 gimmic is a lame rip off of Stone Cold. The Abyss and Judas Mesias fued is the biggest rip off from the WWE of all because does anyone remember The Undertaker and Kane feud. The Undertaker found out that Kane was his brother by Paul Bearer and the secret that Paul Bearer told that the Undertaker was the one who set his house on fire that killed his parents, SOUNDS SIMILAR DOSEN'T IT! The Abyss and Mesias feud is just the old storyline of Undertaker and Kane eccept Abyss is like Kane but is in the place Undertaker, Mesias is a nock off, TNA version of Undertaker in the place of Kane, and James Mitchell is a skinny long haired version of Paul Bearer. It goes to show that Russo and TNA is living off of WWE's past and it will eventually hert them in the long run.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Vince Russo was the main reason for the death of WCW. Russo should not be praised in the wrestling business. He is the reson why TNA will die. TNA is turning into nothing but a WWE rip off. Russo is the main one behind the ******e gimmics and old, already used storylines the WWE.

Have you got any proof of this?

The Shark boy 24-7 gimmic is a lame rip off of Stone Cold.

Really? I hadn't noticed.

The Abyss and Judas Mesias fued is the biggest rip off from the WWE of all because does anyone remember The Undertaker and Kane feud. The Undertaker found out that Kane was his brother by Paul Bearer and the secret that Paul Bearer told that the Undertaker was the one who set his house on fire that killed his parents, SOUNDS SIMILAR DOSEN'T IT!

Yes.

It goes to show that Russo and TNA is living off of WWE's past and it will eventually hert them in the long run.

Not really. They've got a Stone Cold rip off and a storyline comparable to one that happened ten years ago. Sure, I'd like them to focus more on mature, in-ring action instead of childish storylines. However, the claims you make are simply unprecedented.

 

[Slyfox696]

Vince Russo was the main reason for the death of WCW.

No he wasn't. Not even close.

The main reason was the reign of Eric Bischoff. Signing old men to creative control contracts, never pushing anyone past their midcard spot, using stupid gimmicks like Master P and the No Limit soldiers and the KISS Demon. There's a reason Bischoff was fired in September of 1999.

Seriously, did any of these people who claim that Russo killed WCW actually watch WCW?

 

[Afro-Ameri-Spawn]

Wow, it seems very easy to place blame on Vince Russo for TNA's decline. Only problem is that I have to wonder what decline you people are referring to? Is the decline the added ratings points? Because I do believe that the ratings have went up, not down. Which is described as an increase, rather than a decline.

Could it be the roster? More name brand talent. Which is what the average fans watches, which leads to ratings.

So if it's not a ratings decline, or a roster decline, it must be the booking. Let's see. The wrestlers are actually getting the chance to show more than just the "shut up and wrestle" style. They are getting mic time. Time to develope their characters and gimmicks. And in turn, this makes them more complete, more marketable commedities. Would "The Wildcat" Chris Harris be able to sign with WWE if TNA didn't show that he is more than just a wrester? That he has more sides? More depth? I doubt that it would even be news if he did sign and didn't posess those qualities that he and other wrestlers have had the chance to showcase since Vince Russo came aboard.

The simple facts are this. We "smarks" do not equal ratings. Our opinion don't amount to jack because we are not the driving force by which wrestling makes it's money. If we were, then they would put forth the product that we want instead of going with what is adding up to ratings for them. So I suggest that, for once, people study the actual facts, instead of just talking out of their butts about how Russo is the root of all evil and will lead to the demise of TNA. I mean the man created the attitude era and changed the face of wrestling as we know it today, so obviously he can't be as much of an idiot as you all want to imagine that he is. Give him a chance. Give him a break. And let him do his job. If he kills the company, then fine, so be it. But it aint dead and it aint going bankrupt, so get off his back for once.

 

[ImpactPlayer27]

Look, Russo is not the pure reason WCW failed. Eric Bischoff did a pretty good job at digging the hole. Russo was just there to help put the dirt on it. AJ, Daniels and Joe being at the top of the X-Division back then, yeah, that's true. But you never complained about gimmicks, angles or the match quality with the X-Division. And you left one other thing out. We also had when Petey Williams at the time was the record holder for the title reigns with the X-Title. Chris Harris being behind AMW splitting up, okay. Yeah he wanted a singles career and from what I heard, he wanted to reunite the team and Storm told him no. Look, back before all this, When it said with TNA "We are wresting" it used to mean something. Now, I don't konw what the hell they view as wrestling. The beauty about this forum is that it gives the wrestling fans a voice. And it's been overlook for far too long and it's a shame because wrestling used to wow us and when was the last time that happened.

 

[NickFlair]

I love how everyone here somehow has the 'real reason' why wcw died and who to blame for it, but no one here posting is in the industry at all, and at best may know someone who knows the cousin of some jobber. There is not one single reason why wcw died, but plenty....listen to konnan on 5150 or any of the shoot vids put out by RF video and you will hear the actual people who were around tell US what actually happened.
Back to the TOPIC at hand, I am no Vince Russo fan. At the end of WCW, he was acting like a guy during his last week of work, just fooling around and totally checked out. He has some talent, sure, but what he and the other writers, aka, bookers, write, primarily depends on what the performer does with it. Also, how would we really know what TNA would look like without Russo doing some writing? He's been there most of it's life.

 

[mikeRC]

I dont think you can blame Vince Russo for the death of WCW because he put on an already sinking ship in WCW. However his ideas for WCW were horrible and compared to the ideas and talent that WWF had at the time Vince Russo had no chance of bringing WCW back to the top.

In TNA theres definitely been a fall in the quality of the show. i dont really know if Vince is entirely to blame but we've seen some terrible storylines in TNA as of late. Eric Young vs Robert Roode was shit, Abyss vs judas mesias/rellik/black rein/mitchell is one of the worst storylines in wrestling right now (next to hornswoggle) and the Kurt Angle vs Samoa joe feud involving karren Angle was terrible too. but TNA's ratings are going up so dont expect a change in how things are done in TNA because even if Russo taken TNA's quality down a peg he's brought them success

 

[wollymammoth_1974]

Russo just happens to come into these companies when the company is losing its luster and he is asked to try to fix it. Russo has some good ideas but he is asked to be a miracle man in these wrestliong organiztaions which really isn't that great in talent.

 

[Lone Rogue]

It's funny, I don't think you can have a discussion about Vince Russo without it breaking down into a discussion about Vince Russo's contrbutions to WCW.

Vince Russo took a company that was in trouble and took it to the point of no return. His first run wasn't that bad. It brought ratings up a little. It was his second run after Kevin Sullivan did his damage that really put the company in absolute death. It was salvagable in 1999. It could have at least rebounded to the point of making money again. I think people won't see just how horrid those episodes of Nitro and Thunder were until WWE 24/7 moves out of 1997 and into 2000, so you can see just how atrocious they really were.

Anyway, Russo is part of the problem. He isn't the problem. Jeff Jarrett is still a problem. Dixie Carter's lack of wrestling knowledge is part of the problem. Dutch Mantell is part of the problem. Glenn Gilbertti is part of the problem (but thats a part of Russo, really). TNA hasn't figured out how to draw an audience beyond their 1.1 range. Whenever a single thing kicks up the ratings higher, they think that is the answer and try to run with it. They are just tossing things against the wall, hoping something sticks.

Getting rid of Vince Russo won't save TNA. However, it could be a step in the right direction. It all depends who replaces him and everyone who follows his mindset. I'm everyone on the internet is begging for Paul Heyman to suddenly jump in, but to be honest, Paul E. would likely gas out in six months and just start booking X-Division matches between the same guys over and over just because he knows smarks won't complain.

Anyway, I'm rambling at this point. The only way I'll say "Vince Russo is good for the business" is the day he pulls TNA into the black financially. Until then... he's one pair of hands in a dozen pairs of hands pulling dragging a company down thats never truly been "up".

 

[Audioslave]

You actually heard wrong. It was Russo who was pushing for longer matches and more of a focus on in-ring action.

Actually you both are wrong.

The report was that Kurt Angle was spearheading that movement to bring in longer matches and more emphasis on wrestling than they had. Russo was apparently tired of dealing with Dutch and Jarrett and he sided with Angle on this matter. I think there was one more person on the Dutch and Jarrett side of the deal, but I can't remember who. Nevertheless, nothing apparently came of it and we have the product that they've been doing over the past year.

 

[LooseCannon]

Russo has probably come up with some storylines and characters that have been enjoyable. I think he has proven that he is a creative mind who can bring something to the table, but who shouldn't be put in charge.