Vanilla midgets shouldn't be World Champions

[obamartins]

Yes, i know pro wrestling is a work but I have a hard time suspending by disbelief when the likes of Rey Mysterio can become a World Champion. When Brock Lesnar confronted The Miz a few weeks back it spoke volumes because nobody believed The Miz would stand a chance therefore it damaged the credibility of the WWE Championship because The Miz is an former WWE Champion. I have a hard time getting invested in a potential CM Punk vs. Undertaker because i don't view CM Punk as physically imposing or intimidating enough. Daniel Bryan vs. Big Show...give me a break! This is simply my subjective opinion.

It's time the WWE evolved (they won't) & created weight divisions. All Titles should be held in the same regard (something WWE doesn't do today). CM Punk would make a nice Middleweight Champion & Daniel Bryan would make a nice Lightweight Champion - just like the UFC & Boxing that shouldn't mean that they don't headline PPV's & be treated the same as the Heavyweights...actually i am lying i don't believe they should headline like Heavyweights.

As Kevin Nash stated in regards to CM Punk & Daniel Bryan:

"They are not bigger than life, I bet they could both walk through airports and not be noticed unless they have a gimmick shirt on and the belt."

Therefore i propose Kevin Nash should be assigned head of Heavyweight talent recruitment where if Vanilla Midgets want to be an exception to the rule & compete with Heavyweights then they must pass the Kevin Nash's Airport Q Rating test.

In support of my argument i present 3 videos:

Vanilla Midget Tribute
[YOUTUBE]i5ftT-Jnyro[/YOUTUBE]

Kevin Nash vs. Vanilla Midget
[YOUTUBE]iZfEXs006M8[/YOUTUBE]

Callers bury Vanilla Midgets on Wrestling Observer Live
[YOUTUBE]OxVKYzrVSss[/YOUTUBE]

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Crap American Football teams do well in the Superbowl, crap soccer teams do well at the World Cup or in the Champions League, David triumphed over Goliath - maybe your unfamiliar to what wrestling is, but wrestling is a story, the David versus Goliath story has been one of the most emotion evoking stories wrestling has had for the past fifteen plus years and will continue to be, because it is actually somewhat interesting.

Guys like CM Punk and Daniel Bryan are also not vanilla midgets. You don't even know the meaning of the term yet are opposed to it - they are small, which means they fit the midget part of the insult, but when a guy like CM Punk can deliver a better promo than most guys of the past ten years and Daniel Bryan can attract thousands to a stadium by repeating a single word the term vanilla doesn't apply.

The idea that smaller guys can't beat bigger guys is a mind-set of the dark ages. The idea that wrestlers are "Superheroes" such as Nash or Hogan is also redundant. Wrestling has moved on, time has moved on, the majority of peoples minds have evolved. Kevin Nash in this day and age would say anything to gain some reaction anyhow, and using Hogan as an example is also redundant considering he has say in a company whose current World Heavyweight Champion and former before him aren't all that big.

Move on and evolve with the rest of the world, you'll be shocked to hear people don't construct cars anymore, computers do.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

One of the oldest tales ever told was that of the Vanilla Midget beating the Goliath... sure he had to use his jock and rock to get to the Skull Crushing Finale... but the concept is there and integral to wrestling. Without the Vanilla Midgets where would Nash have been? He wouldn't have been a bodyguard to one... he'd have been Oz. or a tag champ with one, he'd have still been a Master Blaster... He wouldn't have had Bret Hart to work with to make him valuable to WCW.

What Nash refers to as Vanilla Midgets are 90% of what is available to WWE/TNA and the wrestling business for their future. There are not that many 7ft'ers out there with the skills or desire to be a pro wrestler. If you had that height, would you want to wrestle or go to the NBA?

Of the top 50 most over wrestlers of the last 20 years very few of them are "big men" of over 6ft 5". The majority are guys like Steve Austin, Edge, Chris Jericho, Bret Hart, Eddie Guerrero, Randy Savage, Ric Flair, Rey Mysterio, Kurt Angle, Shawn Michaels, HHH, Davey Boy Smith and John Cena. Big guys are generally flashes in the pan, there for a short space of time like Batista or veterans who eventually get a turn in the spotlight like JBL, Mark Henry or Kane.

Taker, Nash, Big Show are the exceptions. These are big men who were built specifically for purpose by Vince - forget the Giant in WCW - big men are attractions for us to marvel at, be it for their size or in the case of Brock their ferocity. The Vanilla Midgets are the ones who connect most with Joe Public, carry the show and have the athletic contests that hook people in. Ironically Bret Hart summed it up in his first feud with Nash when he was the IC champ, "Once you're on the floor, you're the same size" so the only suspension of disbelief required is "can one guy get another down" and I think Jericho proved this with Mr. Goldberg, sadly not on screen... but never judge the midget by his size... or you might get a David Special knocking you off your horse...

 

[ABMorales787]

The only thing stupider than the belief that height and weight are what matter most in wrestling it's that there should be weight classes in wrestling. CMLL does it and it looks stupid. Why? Because you don't have a focal point for your company. This isn't boxing or MMA where the fight is sold because of a fighters impressive record. It's wrestling. Where you need to convey stories on a weekly basis using characters portrayed by athletes of various degrees to get people to watch. If one proves successful, he gets more airtime. If he proves unsuccessful, his wished luck in his future endeavors.

Not to mention Hulk Hogan himself has also said he feels today's smaller and more athletic guys have given wrestling a positive change putting genuine skill about strength and size. If a smaller guy is capable of performing well under any circumstance then it's stupid to think his size is an issue. If the person draws, then he's worth the push. Wrestling goes where the money is. Not realism. Watch MMA if you want that.

 

[#tamale]

The only thing stupider than the belief that height and weight are what matter most in wrestling it's that there should be weight classes in wrestling. CMLL does it and it looks stupid. Why? Because you don't have a focal point for your company. This isn't boxing or MMA where the fight is sold because of a fighters impressive record. It's wrestling. Where you need to convey stories on a weekly basis using characters portrayed by athletes of various degrees to get people to watch. If one proves successful, he gets more airtime. If he proves unsuccessful, his wished luck in his future endeavors.

Not to mention Hulk Hogan himself has also said he feels today's smaller and more athletic guys have given wrestling a positive change putting genuine skill about strength and size. If a smaller guy is capable of performing well under any circumstance then it's stupid to think his size is an issue. If the person draws, then he's worth the push. Wrestling goes where the money is. Not realism. Watch MMA if you want that.

This is why I stopped watching CMLL. La Sombra is the best guy on the roster, yet because of this weight class thing, he's hardly ever promoted.

People need to understand that WWE is not a "sport". Don't treat it like one. What matters in the WWE is making money as in any business, and the ones that make money in the WWE are the ones who have the best character, the best storyline, the ones who draw the fans in because they want to see him entertain and wrestle. The match does have some say but if you got two guys who can't draw you in, then you won't care.

Also to the OP, this whole "JACKED" wrestlers is what wrestling is about thing is only a part of wrestling history. Before they came along, it was guys who looked like Bruno, Backlund, Dibiase, Hayes, Flair, Dusty etc. It evolved to a more strong man look but now WWE and TNA have done a great job of having great wrestlers with different looks and characters. We have Bryan, Punk, Jericho, Kofi and then we have Rock, Brock, Cena, Sheamus, Cesaro, and you know what's great, that these guys can work with one another and give you a great wrestling match. Enjoy the variety.

 

[Spinebreaker]

The idea that someone CM Punk's size is no threat to The Undertaker for example is plain ludicrous.

if CM Punk runs across the ring, get's up to 8 maybe 9 MPH and dropkicks you in the face. Then whether you're Hornswaggle or Lance Hoyt it's gonna chaffe. Yeah, it's all about willing suuspension of disbelief. But someone like Daniel Bryan would not only find it easier to get 'Taker into a submission move than Jericho. It would hurt 'Taker more. Longer limbs = more leverage.

Yes, it's 'fake', but 90% of your audience knows, and the other 10% are 7 years old. Nash is huge, but Mysterio was fast. Kane's huge but Bryan's technical.

The alternative is Mark Henry VS Big show every week. THAT would be painful for EVERYONE watching.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

There's so much wrong with the OP's post that I hardly even no where to begin. Several other posters have already said pretty much all there is to say on the subject. I definitely agree that the OP doesn't really seem to understand the term "vanilla midget" as it's a term that most certainly does not apply to either CM Punk or Daniel Bryan. An actual "vanilla midget" is someone like Amazing Red: a guy who doesn't have a lot of size that has little to no personality or charisma to speak of.

Also, the idea that a smaller guy can't beat a bigger one is a thought process that belongs in the dark ages. In real life, I've seen plenty of fights in which a smaller guy has pounded the snot out of someone much bigger. As a Corrections Officer, some of the baddest mothers I've ever laid eyes on have been smaller. I once had to break up a fight in which a 5'5" 150 pound Latino had nearly gouged out the eye of a 6'2" 230 pound skinhead who had also broken his nose and knocked out three of his teeth. If you've ever watched an MMA fight, it's not at all uncommon for the most skilled & tenacious fighters to be considerably smaller than heavyweights. So since I know for an absolute fact that smaller can beat bigger in real life, why shouldn't I believe it could happen within the choreographed world of pro wrestling?

As others have eloquently pointed out, the story of David vs. Goliath is one that's ages old, even in wrestling. It can make up a nice contrast of styles and, in wrestling, gives a different element to the story. For instance, in terms of physical strength, it's pretty obvious that Paul Wight, AKA Big Show, is stronger than Bryan Danielson, AKA Daniel Bryan. During his feud against Big Show in early 2012, Bryan had entertaining matches against Show partly because he was an underdog. He couldn't stand toe to toe with the much bigger & stronger man, so he had to use cunning, skill and no shortage of tenacity to be able to ultimately come out ahead, which he did.

If you look back over pro wrestling, the VAST majority of major to significant stars have been wrestlers who would be considered on the "smaller" side. Lou Thesz, Terry Funk, Dory Funk, Jr., Jack Brisco, Harley Race, Ric Flair, Ricky Steamboat, Kerry Von Erich, Kevin Von Erich, Macho Man Randy Savage, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Michael Hayes, Roddy Piper, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, John Morrison, The Miz, Kofi Kingston, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Christian and numerous others have generally been in the 5'9"-6'2" and 200-230 pound ranges. There haven't been a huge number of major stars in American pro wrestling 6'5" and over. Even back in the day, a lot of the "bigger guys" were really guys who were pretty overweight and just plain out of shape. Aside from Andre The Giant, the two most successful legit "giants" in pro wrestling in the United States are Big Show & Kevin Nash. Super huge wrestlers have always been more of a special attraction, generally speaking, rather than the consistent top guys.

 

[Dirk]

I think the prblem creeps in when a guy like Punk tells a guy like the Rock that he's going to kick his ass.

If you have a smaller guy up against a bigger guy, showcase his agility! If you have a huge guy, showcase his power/ weight. If you have a Hart, Angle or Bryan, show-off their technical ability, it helps with in-ring storytelling.

It's not believable when a guy (big or otherwise) hulks up. Only Hogan, apparently Cena and also apparently Bully Ray is allowed to do this, nobody else (looking at you, Sheamus).

 

[The Dragon Saga]

I think the prblem creeps in when a guy like Punk tells a guy like the Rock that he's going to kick his ass.

I've seen guys smaller than Punk knock out guys larger than The Rock in bars. It's not the strength of the person that matters, it's the intelligence that goes behind their offense.

Hell Chris Jericho once choked out Goldberg in an actual fight.

 

[Spinebreaker]

I think the prblem creeps in when a guy like Punk tells a guy like the Rock that he's going to kick his ass.

Don't think there's a problem at all with Punk saying he's gonna kick Rock's ass. CM Punk's got the heel look down, and we know that Rock's a big shiny American hero. Punk's portraying kind of guy that will stamp on fingers, gouge eyes, spit in someones face. He didn't say he'd overpower the Rock, he didn't say he'd beat him in an arm-wrestling contest.

Someone the size of Punk could EASILY beat someone the size of the Rock, especially if the muscle mass is as cosmetic as Rock's appears to be (I'm not saying it's fake, but it's obviously a workout that makes you look impressive, rather than actual strength and cardio...)

I'm 6'8". I'm not sure of the conversion, but probably weigh about 260. I lift beer barrels as part of my job, and thus far I've never met a piece of furniture I couldn't lift single handed. I'm next to useless in an actual fight.

Being bigger and stronger than the other guy is irrellevent if they have already kicked you in the face 8 times.

 

[Dirk]

I've seen guys smaller than Punk knock out guys larger than The Rock in bars. It's not the strength of the person that matters, it's the intelligence that goes behind their offense.

I know, I know size doesn't matter in a real fight, but read what I said about showcasing the wrestler's strengths.

Punk does not LOOK like a badass, but he looks alert and smart. He can't match Rocky in a test of strength, but he can outwit him. IMO, Punk could have called Rock a stupid and told him that he'll outwrestle/outpace/outwit him, not kick his ass.

I'm all for the smaller guys being in the main event. Mostly, they have a much more exciting offence.

For example, I see no problem with Rey as WHC, because his speed and agility is showcased in his offence, not his brutality or strength.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

We've been over this before. Size is not an issue. This has been hotly contested for years now, but even guys like Hogan are coming around on the matter, admitting that the "smaller", and "more athletic" guys popularized today have helped to re-define the industry in a good way. He's not wrong, but neither are the "size matters" folks. They just don't word it properly. It's not size that matters — it's look. While you are bound to always run into traditionalists who'll cast dispersions on smaller in stature performers, it's not actually the size that matters in most cases, as much as the physique of the performer.

Take Amazing Red and Austin Aries, for example. Red is billed at around 5'6, while Aries is only three inches taller than him at 5'9. Both men would be considered "midgets" to the giants that used to roam the industry, but the difference between the two is striking on physique alone, because Red looks he's allergic to weight lifting, while Aries has a better build and physique on him than some of his larger counter parts even do.

When you combine in the personalities, the ability to talk and the wrestling skill, Aries skips over the "vanilla midget" nonsense, because while he's small in physical height, he more than makes up for it everywhere else.

 

[Dysturbed]

IMO, Punk could have called Rock a stupid and told him that he'll outwrestle/outpace/outwit him, not kick his ass.

Imo, since one of the most commonly used concepts in wrestling/sports entertainment (as constantly used by performers, announcers, and advertising) is exaggeration, a wrestler shouldn't need to have more strength than another to make such a bold claim. That especially applies to heels, since they are often cocky enough to believe any claims they make. If a heel says that they win a match that they clearly lost, we are supposed to think that they believe it. When Randy Orton simply attacked a legend or beat someone in a match and claimed that he killed their legend, he didn't kill anything, but he sure believed that he did. When CM Punk, who presents himself as confident enough to believe that he is "Best In The World" and confident enough to believe anything that he says, it is absolutely fitting imo if he believes that he can kick someone's ass that is bigger than him whether it be The Rock, Ryback, Undertaker, Big Show, etc. Yes he can also strongly do the other things that you mentioned but if someone in the real world were to simply punch someone and knock them out, others may say "he just got his ass kicked." If that sort of terminology can apply in the real world then imo it can definitely believably apply to the scripted reality of wrestling where the sports entertainment version of wrestling involves what could be deemed as "ass kicking" behaviors.

 

[DirtyD79]

Overage hosses who always come down with convenient ailments whenever it's time to put over somebody who isn't one of their Kliq buttbuddies shouldn't be world champions either. Seriously, Quit polishing Kevin Nash's knob. He's a pathetic parasite who hasn't been relevant in years and was the worst drawing champion in history when he had the strap.

I'd rather watch a small guy who can fight than some fat bloat gasping and wheezing just trying to get to the ring or some Tony Mandarich looking pile of shit who wrestles like he was trained in a lumberjack camp.

 

[obamartins]

LOL this thread was simply designed to troll!

Also to the person above who said Kevin Nash "worst drawing champion in history" i say prove it (you won't) because i know for a FACT that isn't the case.