Triple H: Stuck Between A Rock & A Hard Place

[Jack-Hammer]

Over the past weeks & months, there've been a lot of criticisms of creative decisions made on the main roster compared with what we've seen in NXT. Some feel that it isn't a fair comparison due to Raw & SD! having more time to fill while others believe that's really a smokescreen. Various reports suggest that Triple H has a lot of support on the main roster and feel he could do just as well if he made the final creative decisions instead of Vince.

According to a report from the WON concerning Vince's recent comments on Austin's podcast, morale backstage is low due to a general feeling that Vince basically crapped all over the entire roster. The report also states that Triple H conducted a talent meeting in which he addressed Vince's comments, but it was viewed as more damage control than anything and, as a result, feel he lost a good deal of credibility.

Some dirt sheet writers have said that while Triple H isn't a yes man, he doesn't stand up enough to Vince. Even if that's true, a possible reason could be because Triple H genuinely loves the old fart. Business is business but at the end of the day, Triple H is still married to Vince's daughter and Vince is still the grandfather of Triple H & Stephanie's three daughters. The problem with working with family is the age old question regarding how to separate personal feelings from business.

On one hand, let's say that Triple H ultimately did stand up to Vince more, told him he thought some of his ideas were flat out wrong, downright sucked and thought that it was hurting the business. It runs the risk of causing a rift between the two and, quite possibly, putting Stephanie right smack in the middle whether she really wants to be or not. Even if Triple H said so in a respectful manner, we all know how Vince feels about his ego being bruised. As I said, Triple H loves the old guy and that in and of itself could be part of why he'd be reluctant to "stand up" to him more. As much as we sometimes tend to forget, Vince is still a human being after all.

Plus, there's also the simple fact that Vince McMahon is Triple H's boss, so who can say whether or not Vince would fire him if he thought Triple H was being disrespectful and crossed a line? Would Vince be able to put aside notions of feeling disrespected to see that Triple H would be concerned? Would Trips being Vince's son in law grant him some degree of protection that other executives might not enjoy? Does Triple H run the risk of alienating not only Vince, but Stephanie as well?

No matter how you slice it, I'd say that Triple H has to be pretty diplomatic sometimes in his role as an executive in WWE.

 

[Navi]

It must be absolutely horrible for HHH at times when he sees the wrong decisions being made and he can't do much about it. Yes he is between a rock and a hard place, and short of Vince retiring, HHH is stuck there for the foreseeable future.

The one thing he does have on his side is proof. If Vince would open his eyes and see what fans and the media say about NXT, compared to what is said about the main roster, he might let HHH have more creative control. But until Vince is out of the picture completely, he will always have the final say.

Being married to the son or daughter of the boss is most times a help, not in this case though. I don't know enough of about their marriage and relationship to know what Stephanie would do if she had to make a choice and support one or the other, You would think it would be her husband, she's young as well, and this is their future for not only them but their kids as well. I would hope she would side with what's best in the long run, even if it's against her own father.

I genuinely think HHH loves this business and wants to see it succeed, Vince on the other hand seems more concerned about the money aspect of it all. If he did care about his wrestlers he wouldn't have shit all over them like he did on the podcast. Anything coming from him now would be disingenuous as he was speaking the truth there. I'm not surprised that HHH has to calm things down. But what do you say to a bunch of guys and girls, who work their asses off and were just publicly humiliated by the owner of the company. Vince basically said if you're not John Cena, you're crap cause you don't work hard enough and he sees no future for you.

If HHH wants this business to succeed as much as he does he has two options, stand up to Vince and make him see reason and take the flack, or say nothing and hope Vince gets out sooner rather than later.

 

[sanefan_har]

I agree. As we've seen you and other posters mention on several other threads, we can safely assume that Vince having the final say in everything is a major obstacle in the progression of programming quality.

Unfortunately, this topic has been discussed on many occasions, and that's the end of it. There's no progress beyond a discussion, and the talent suffers because of this.

I still feel that a brand split could do the WWE some good. Make Smackdown Stars exclusive to Smackdown and the same for Raw and its stars. This way we can have some long matches between different competitors, instead of having 40 second squashes and what not. And for the love of everything that's holy, stop advertising a lot of content during airtime. I'm referring to Michael Cole and his obsession with Twitter the WWE Network. This can give talent time to work longer matches and test their connection with the crowd.

 

[Teddy Irving]

I still feel that a brand split could do the WWE some good. Make Smackdown Stars exclusive to Smackdown and the same for Raw and its stars. This way we can have some long matches between different competitors, instead of having 40 second squashes and what not. And for the love of everything that's holy, stop advertising a lot of content during airtime. I'm referring to Michael Cole and his obsession with Twitter the WWE Network. This can give talent time to work longer matches and test their connection with the crowd.

I don't think a brand split is the way to go we only just finished that recently and it wasn't so much of a split I know but I think they should just keep it as one entire roster. However, it is clear they view SD as the 'B' show and this is evident in the fact that it is mainly raw recaps.
What they should do is let HHH run SD and have the final say. This would finally answer the question of whether he could handle a longer show and bigger audience demograph than nxt rather quickly and they could use the talent that is sitting aside now on it. Not split as you can still have Cena,Ambrose,Ziggler etc. show up every once in a while to keep people interested. It means you could see new feuds with the 'lower' guys and see if they can get over with a crowd and move up to Raw, and again allows HHH to try the big pond which could become an inhouse competition and see how he and Vince handle it and who starts to get the better of who.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Why should Triple H apologize for Vince? Because Vince was completely right.

There are too many superstars who expect a push, who probably act entitled. C.M. Punk is the perfect example of a self-entitled little whiner. However, he still got over. You know why? Because, at the end of the day, Punk was talented and WWE knew it, so they gave him a year long title reign.

If some superstars aren't getting over, what are they doing about it? Could they work on their skills more, work harder? Everyone says that Vince favors Cena, so why not do what Cena does? Show up to work first and leave last, be respectful to management, even when you don't agree with them, promote the company. You could do what Triple H himself did and make friends with the powerful guys on the roster, and hope that friends look after friends.

Superstars can do two things. They can bitch and moan and blame everyone else for where they are on the roster, or do something about it. But doing something about it may mean looking in the mirror and changing what you do. Maybe it means picking your battles with management (Be compliant and keep your head down, and if you get a big and sustained push, you can then politely address some issues, when you have some stroke backstage).

It is too easy to play victim and blame others for all the ills in your life. I see Dolph Ziggler as an example. He went against management by doing a film without WWE's permission, and got buried. He seems to have taken his medicine, didn't take to Twitter and complained, but served his punishment, and then has been working harder in the ring, then I have ever seen him, and is getting the push as a result. He made a mistake, served his time, and now he is seeing some reward for bettering his workrate in the ring as of late. If more superstars did that, maybe they would be given the brass ring.

 

[sanefan_har]

What they should do is let HHH run SD and have the final say. This would finally answer the question of whether he could handle a longer show and bigger audience demograph than nxt rather quickly and they could use the talent that is sitting aside now on it. Not split as you can still have Cena,Ambrose,Ziggler etc. show up every once in a while to keep people interested.

The thing is, in the current scenario, Smackdown and Raw complement each other (or are supposed to) in terms of continuing a storyline. If you have HHH take charge of one segment and Vince take charge of the other, it will lead to a baffling inconsistency that could hurt the product.

 

[Navi]

Why should Triple H apologize for Vince? Because Vince was completely right.

There are too many superstars who expect a push, who probably act entitled. C.M. Punk is the perfect example of a self-entitled little whiner. However, he still got over. You know why? Because, at the end of the day, Punk was talented and WWE knew it, so they gave him a year long title reign.

If some superstars aren't getting over, what are they doing about it? Could they work on their skills more, work harder? Everyone says that Vince favors Cena, so why not do what Cena does? Show up to work first and leave last, be respectful to management, even when you don't agree with them, promote the company. You could do what Triple H himself did and make friends with the powerful guys on the roster, and hope that friends look after friends.

Superstars can do two things. They can bitch and moan and blame everyone else for where they are on the roster, or do something about it. But doing something about it may mean looking in the mirror and changing what you do. Maybe it means picking your battles with management (Be compliant and keep your head down, and if you get a big and sustained push, you can then politely address some issues, when you have some stroke backstage).

It is too easy to play victim and blame others for all the ills in your life. I see Dolph Ziggler as an example. He went against management by doing a film without WWE's permission, and got buried. He seems to have taken his medicine, didn't take to Twitter and complained, but served his punishment, and then has been working harder in the ring, then I have ever seen him, and is getting the push as a result. He made a mistake, served his time, and now he is seeing some reward for bettering his workrate in the ring as of late. If more superstars did that, maybe they would be given the brass ring.

And just how was he completely right? As the head of a multi-million dollar business it's okay for you to go out in public and tell the whole world your staff is shit. That's the best way to handle it, to humiliate them? Keep in mind these are the people who keep your boat afloat and the money coming in. You don't think it would have been better for him to pull them aside one by one and tell them personally what he wants to see out of them.

And besides that fact, they are just doing what the creative department that also works for Vince tells them to do. He's the one who okay's the final script for the shows, so if something doesn't go right, then maybe he's the one that's shit not them. They just follow orders, his orders.

These wrestlers don't bitch and complain in public, CM Punk is the only one who's done that as far as I know for a long time. So who else is bitching? All I've seen is the rest of the roster showing up to work and getting the job done. They promote the WWE on TV and radio shows by doing interviews, they attend meet and greets for fans, and give up their family lives to do it.

I think you are putting the blame on people that really don't deserve it. Vince McMahon has the final say on everything that happens, so if it's horrible then the blame lies with him, and him alone. You said you can't blame others for your ills, well that's exactly what he's doing. No wonder HHH can't get through to him, he's as stubborn as a mule. Even after all this shitstorm, started by Vince I might add, the roster is still out there entertaining the fans. If I was one of them I would have told him where to go, how to get there and what to do when he did get there.

You can only blame people for so long before you have to start looking in the mirror and see the person who is really at fault.

 

[rmp0012002]

When it comes down to it Vince makes the calls not HHH, not Stephanie or whoever else is part of creative. If he says his roster is shit other than Cena then all Vince has to do is look in the mirror for the reason why that is.

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

I said it once and I would say it before: too much shit has been thrown at Vince because of that podcast. Literally, just because he said that wrestlers need to step up more and "grab brass ring" everyone consider him crazy old men that has been stucked in past and that HHH needs to get more bigger role so he could overturn bad decisions old man makes.

Nothing would essentially change that much if HHH is in charge of the company right now. You would still have Cena and few more guys in mainevent, bunch of talents that are trying to make in that mainevent and bunch of midcarders and jobbers. You would still have same guys being pushed because HHH philosophy about wrestlers isnt too much apart from Vince and would still have same booking as today except that maybe Lesnar wouldnt beat Undertaker(Vince said it was his call) but maybe someone else(maybe even HHH himself few years back) would do it.

Point is, you wouldnt get too much change as you think you would, and real question is wheather you would like that change.

Wheather HHH job is hard: In terms that he doesnt get the last word and that he cant do everything he wants yes. In terms that he has hard job, please, he is succesor of everything and one man that is groomed to lead everything in few years when Vince decides to retire. And his creative control is pretty big as it is so you can say that he has his own word coming out even now. Plus, I dont think HHH is the guy who cant say his words even to Vince. He is not someone who would get fired if he stands up. Yes, he probably has his limits, but he is far from someone who would just shut up and do whatever Vince tells him.

 

[stingray11214]

The problem is that even if Trips WANTED to do anything about it, he and Stephanie are in NO position to really challenge VKM. Why? VKM has far more shares than those two and Shane COMBINED. He could squash the three of them in short order. Had Stephanie, Trips and Shane bought more in stock, they could be in a position to challenge "Pop". What's worse is that even if Steve Austin, The Rock, Roddy Piper and JBL ran the company, the show would not change. Why? WWE is a PUBLIC Company. It serves too many masters. I liken it to a circus. And, if I may quote Kenneth Feld, the CEO of Ringling Bros. and Barnum and Bailey: "A Circus should not be run by a corporation". Unquote. He said that in 1982 after he and his father, the late Irwin Feld, bought RB&B&B back from Mattel, the same company they sold it to only a decade earlier.

SO, unless Stephanie/Trips/Shane scrounge up enough cash to take WWE PRIVATE, nothing is going to change. Sure, VKM could drop dead tomorrow. Linda McMahon, who would probably have a MAJOR say in VKMs estate, could hand control to Trips and Stephanie. Guess what? It will not matter because they will serve too many masters UNLESS they take WWE Private, which on the surface, they are incapable of doing.

 

[Vader]

At the end of the day, the WWE will be stuck in the PG era so long as it's publicly traded. Back in the day the WWE could afford controversy as it brought attention to the product, now that you have the fears of the stock holders to take into account I think everything will continue to be mild mannered and watered down.

 

[Teddy Irving]

The thing is, in the current scenario, Smackdown and Raw complement each other (or are supposed to) in terms of continuing a storyline. If you have HHH take charge of one segment and Vince take charge of the other, it will lead to a baffling inconsistency that could hurt the product.

I get your point but as you said they are 'supposed to' compliment each other, when in fact SD tends to just be a lot of raw reruns and some matches everyone once in a while. I'm not saying they can't promote storylines from the other show but if HHH was allowed to run SD with storylines he ok's for guys that aren't being used on the main roster at the moment I don't think it would be too big an issue.

 

[LBGetBack]

Why should Triple H apologize for Vince? Because Vince was completely right.

There are too many superstars who expect a push, who probably act entitled. C.M. Punk is the perfect example of a self-entitled little whiner. However, he still got over. You know why? Because, at the end of the day, Punk was talented and WWE knew it, so they gave him a year long title reign.

If some superstars aren't getting over, what are they doing about it? Could they work on their skills more, work harder? Everyone says that Vince favors Cena, so why not do what Cena does? Show up to work first and leave last, be respectful to management, even when you don't agree with them, promote the company. You could do what Triple H himself did and make friends with the powerful guys on the roster, and hope that friends look after friends.

Superstars can do two things. They can bitch and moan and blame everyone else for where they are on the roster, or do something about it. But doing something about it may mean looking in the mirror and changing what you do. Maybe it means picking your battles with management (Be compliant and keep your head down, and if you get a big and sustained push, you can then politely address some issues, when you have some stroke backstage).

It is too easy to play victim and blame others for all the ills in your life. I see Dolph Ziggler as an example. He went against management by doing a film without WWE's permission, and got buried. He seems to have taken his medicine, didn't take to Twitter and complained, but served his punishment, and then has been working harder in the ring, then I have ever seen him, and is getting the push as a result. He made a mistake, served his time, and now he is seeing some reward for bettering his workrate in the ring as of late. If more superstars did that, maybe they would be given the brass ring.

You can't be serious. Surely you've noticed that guys like Cesaro and Wyatt have gotten incredibly over.....only to be cooled down, seemingly on purpose, by their booking.

Seems like they may be doing the same thing to Ambrose now. We'll see.

Vince's comments on Cesaro showed how out of touch he is. The fans were LOVING him, he was really over......so they put him with Heyman, take away the swing, and book him like a scrub. And then Vince blames Cesaro for not having "it". Utterly ridiculous.

They have done an absolutely horrible job of developing new stars in the last decade, despite having tons of talent to work with.

 

[d_henderson1810]

You can't be serious. Surely you've noticed that guys like Cesaro and Wyatt have gotten incredibly over.....only to be cooled down, seemingly on purpose, by their booking.

Seems like they may be doing the same thing to Ambrose now. We'll see.

Vince's comments on Cesaro showed how out of touch he is. The fans were LOVING him, he was really over......so they put him with Heyman, take away the swing, and book him like a scrub. And then Vince blames Cesaro for not having "it". Utterly ridiculous.

They have done an absolutely horrible job of developing new stars in the last decade, despite having tons of talent to work with.

Funny how you say that Cesaro and Wyatt got over, as if they got themselves over. Oh, I forgot. According to IWC law, wrestlers get themselves over, but if they don't, it is all Vince's fault. So, Vince McMahon can only ever bury wrestlers, and never build them. Have I got that right?

Wyatt and Ambrose main-evented Raw last week, and TLC. Rollins main-evented SS, and Ambrose and Rollins main-evented HIAC. So, the last three PPVs have had new guys in the main-event. Oh, Dolph Ziggler main-evented SS as well.

So, four new guys have main-evented PPVs in the last three months. Add to that the plan to have Roman Reigns beat Brock at WMXXXI next year, and Daniel Bryan main-eventing WM 30 this year.

But, that's right. They got themselves over. Vince had nothing to do with it. He didn't build the company that allowed worldwide exposure and top money and the chance to become a Legend of the industry. He didn't have anything to do with the fact that the Shield dominated Raw for two years, broke up, and all three are still major players in WWE.

Think of this. John Cena has had his match at two of the last three PPVs in the middle of the card, and who is main-eventing instead? Bray Wyatt, Dolph Ziggler, Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, and soon Roman Reigns as well. So much for burying new talent.

Also, name me one memorable promo that Cesaro ever cut. Go on, if he is such a maestro on the mike, tell me where he brought the house down on the stick. Take away his swing, and he doesn't have much. If Paul Heyman can't make you a big deal, then no-one can get you over. Cesaro is mid-card at best.

 

[d_henderson1810]

And just how was he completely right? As the head of a multi-million dollar business it's okay for you to go out in public and tell the whole world your staff is shit. That's the best way to handle it, to humiliate them? Keep in mind these are the people who keep your boat afloat and the money coming in. You don't think it would have been better for him to pull them aside one by one and tell them personally what he wants to see out of them.

And besides that fact, they are just doing what the creative department that also works for Vince tells them to do. He's the one who okay's the final script for the shows, so if something doesn't go right, then maybe he's the one that's shit not them. They just follow orders, his orders.

These wrestlers don't bitch and complain in public, CM Punk is the only one who's done that as far as I know for a long time. So who else is bitching? All I've seen is the rest of the roster showing up to work and getting the job done. They promote the WWE on TV and radio shows by doing interviews, they attend meet and greets for fans, and give up their family lives to do it.

I think you are putting the blame on people that really don't deserve it. Vince McMahon has the final say on everything that happens, so if it's horrible then the blame lies with him, and him alone. You said you can't blame others for your ills, well that's exactly what he's doing. No wonder HHH can't get through to him, he's as stubborn as a mule. Even after all this shitstorm, started by Vince I might add, the roster is still out there entertaining the fans. If I was one of them I would have told him where to go, how to get there and what to do when he did get there.

You can only blame people for so long before you have to start looking in the mirror and see the person who is really at fault.

How do you know there isn't fault on both sides? So you are saying that none of the talent are lazy?

You say most of them don't complain. So, then, how do you know it bothers them? Maybe most of the talent are happy with the paycheck and exposure they are getting. You can't say unless you have heard someone other than C.M. Punk say it, or unless you have actually spoken to this talent who told you in secret. Punk didn't like things, so he left. Others have stayed, so maybe they like how WWE runs.

You can't have it both ways. If you say that Vince is 100% responsible for all that happens in WWE, then you must give him credit for the good, as well as the bad. You have to acknowledge the good ideas (such as the Austin-McMahon feud) as well as what you personally don't like.

If you think everything Vince does is shit, then why even watch? Why not go away, crawl back in the hole you slithered out of, and not come on here, bagging everything about the company, without giving one ounce of credit to it.

If you are the only person dissatisfied with your fave superstar not being champion, then maybe you need to look in the mirror.

 

[Navi]

How do you know there isn't fault on both sides? So you are saying that none of the talent are lazy?

You say most of them don't complain. So, then, how do you know it bothers them? Maybe most of the talent are happy with the paycheck and exposure they are getting. You can't say unless you have heard someone other than C.M. Punk say it, or unless you have actually spoken to this talent who told you in secret. Punk didn't like things, so he left. Others have stayed, so maybe they like how WWE runs.

You can't have it both ways. If you say that Vince is 100% responsible for all that happens in WWE, then you must give him credit for the good, as well as the bad. You have to acknowledge the good ideas (such as the Austin-McMahon feud) as well as what you personally don't like.

If you think everything Vince does is shit, then why even watch? Why not go away, crawl back in the hole you slithered out of, and not come on here, bagging everything about the company, without giving one ounce of credit to it.

If you are the only person dissatisfied with your fave superstar not being champion, then maybe you need to look in the mirror.

Excuse me, but I am answering your original quote in which you stated that wrestlers are out there bitching and complaining. They aren't. The only one who is doing that is CM Punk. So please show me where others are on TV, radio or elsewhere bashing the WWE. Do you remember saying this. "

"Superstars can do two things. They can bitch and moan and blame everyone else for where they are on the roster, or do something about it. But doing something about it may mean looking in the mirror and changing what you do."

So you are the one who put it out there I'm just answering you back.

Oh and as a matter of fact I don't know it to be true. I'm a fan of wrestling and don't then them personally. But I do appreciate what these guys do on a daily basis. In your original post you seemed to put all the blame on them for the way the business is right now.

That isn't right. It's not their fault, the fault lies with one person, the one making all the decisions, Vince McMahon. He said one Austin's podcast that he has the final say in everything. And it is well known that he changes his mind depending on which way the wind blows.

If you think that it's okay for someone in McMahon's position to go on TV and tell the world, the people he pays to entertain them are shit, then that doesn't say much about you as a person. If McMahon thinks that only 3-4 people on the roster are worth caring about then why should we as fans invest our time in the rest of them. Considering he has the final say, they aren't going anywhere soon.

You yourself spoke about the roster not stepping up, and delivering. I say they work with what they are given. If they aren't given much to work with then who's fault is that, their's. I don't think so. Perhaps in future you should remember what you've written before you answer someone back. You did a complete 180 degrees between your two posts. In one you're bashing the talent and in the next your bashing me for standing up for them. Make up your mind.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Does Triple H run the risk of alienating not only Vince, but Stephanie as well?

Talk about irony, huh? Talk about life in the corporate world, where family connections often work to the detriment of everyone, including the business entity itself.

It could be Triple H's problem is less Vince McMahon than his own wife. After all, she's the one who owns 1/4 of the WWE stock (plus or minus any the four McMahon original stockholders have bought or sold since the initial offering). Who knows if Paul Levesque is a stockholder at all, save for his connection by marriage. The point is that it could be Stephanie who's telling Paul to back down from Vince. She might have corporate and personal reasons for it, the latter being the simple desire to not upset her aging father with disagreement he would never take from anyone else......her included, perhaps.

Vince has been known as a prize martinet for many years, a man who wants things done his way....and no other way. That he reportedly spends so much time angry while controlling the production indicates he hasn't softened at all.

Yes, he probably acknowledges that he wants Mr. & Mrs. Levesque to succeed him in running the company.....but that only comes about when he's ready to relinquish control.

In my opinion, the day he steps down is the day he dies. Until then, Triple H is probably well aware he is as vulnerable to Vince's demands as everyone else......and if Trips forgets this, he has his wife to remind him.

Triple H stuck between a rock & a hard place? Sure, he is......but it was strictly his choice to marry into that place.

 

[stingray11214]

Talk about irony, huh? Talk about life in the corporate world, where family connections often work to the detriment of everyone, including the business entity itself.

It could be Triple H's problem is less Vince McMahon than his own wife. After all, she's the one who owns 1/4 of the WWE stock (plus or minus any the four McMahon original stockholders have bought or sold since the initial offering). Who knows if Paul Levesque is a stockholder at all, save for his connection by marriage. The point is that it could be Stephanie who's telling Paul to back down from Vince. She might have corporate and personal reasons for it, the latter being the simple desire to not upset her aging father with disagreement he would never take from anyone else......her included, perhaps.

Vince has been known as a prize martinet for many years, a man who wants things done his way....and no other way. That he reportedly spends so much time angry while controlling the production indicates he hasn't softened at all.

Yes, he probably acknowledges that he wants Mr. & Mrs. Levesque to succeed him in running the company.....but that only comes about when he's ready to relinquish control.

In my opinion, the day he steps down is the day he dies. Until then, Triple H is probably well aware he is as vulnerable to Vince's demands as everyone else......and if Trips forgets this, he has his wife to remind him.

Triple H stuck between a rock & a hard place? Sure, he is......but it was strictly his choice to marry into that place.

When Trips became COO, he received 60K shares of voting stock (Class A).

As of October 15, 2014, the amount of shares owned are:

Stephanie Levesque (nee McMahon): 2,511,071 shares worth $34,050,122.

Shane McMahon: 1,541,204 shares worth $20,898,726.

Vincent Kennedy McMahon: 39,272,641 shares worth $532,537,010.

So, as you can plainly see, VKM can crush his children in the boardroom without thinking about it. So, even if Trips WANTED to make changes, he would get steamrolled by the real power in WWE: VKM.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Excuse me, but I am answering your original quote in which you stated that wrestlers are out there bitching and complaining. They aren't. The only one who is doing that is CM Punk. So please show me where others are on TV, radio or elsewhere bashing the WWE. Do you remember saying this. "

"Superstars can do two things. They can bitch and moan and blame everyone else for where they are on the roster, or do something about it. But doing something about it may mean looking in the mirror and changing what you do."

So you are the one who put it out there I'm just answering you back.

Oh and as a matter of fact I don't know it to be true. I'm a fan of wrestling and don't then them personally. But I do appreciate what these guys do on a daily basis. In your original post you seemed to put all the blame on them for the way the business is right now.

That isn't right. It's not their fault, the fault lies with one person, the one making all the decisions, Vince McMahon. He said one Austin's podcast that he has the final say in everything. And it is well known that he changes his mind depending on which way the wind blows.

If you think that it's okay for someone in McMahon's position to go on TV and tell the world, the people he pays to entertain them are shit, then that doesn't say much about you as a person. If McMahon thinks that only 3-4 people on the roster are worth caring about then why should we as fans invest our time in the rest of them. Considering he has the final say, they aren't going anywhere soon.

You yourself spoke about the roster not stepping up, and delivering. I say they work with what they are given. If they aren't given much to work with then who's fault is that, their's. I don't think so. Perhaps in future you should remember what you've written before you answer someone back. You did a complete 180 degrees between your two posts. In one you're bashing the talent and in the next your bashing me for standing up for them. Make up your mind.

How do you know that the fault lies with one person, Vince McMahon? You don't know, you don't work there. You probably only believe that, because you believe anything that Mark Madden and the IWC say on here.

There are two sides to any story. Sometimes it's Vince's fault (he's only human), and sometimes it is the talent's. Sometimes it is both.

Take for example, the Montreal Screwjob. It was Vince's fault for what he did, but it was Bret's fault because he should have done the right thing by the business and dropped the title at SS. Bret bitched and moaned about politics that HBK played, then he refused to do a job himself, making him a hypocrite. So, both could have done things better.

Look at Vince and Austin. Vince was blamed for making Austin-Brock on Raw, and Austin was right- a PPV match and big buildup would have been better. But Austin himself said that he shouldn't have walked out. So, he was at fault as well.

Do you know why Dolph Ziggler got buried last time? Because he didn't get permission from WWE to do an outside film project. You may not see that as a big deal, but maybe WWE want their talent to make films for them, not other companies. It was a company rule, and Dolph breached it, so he was de-pushed. He has served his pennance, and has bounced back spectacularly. But the company has a right to deal with employees who breach the rules.

So, you see, I am not saying that Vince McMahon is always right. But you seem to be saying that the talent is NEVER wrong. That someone who doesn't get pushed is 100% Vince's fault and not because someone may lack charisma, or is a poor worker, or injures other guys, or you can hear crickets when he wrestles.

Fine, then, push everyone to the moon. Have the Brookly Brawler headline Wrestlemania then, shall we. Or do you only want all your favourites pushed? If so, then maybe stop backing losers, and instead start going for guys who have some chance of main-eventing, not non-entities like Zack Ryder.

 

[d_henderson1810]

You can't be serious. Surely you've noticed that guys like Cesaro and Wyatt have gotten incredibly over.....only to be cooled down, seemingly on purpose, by their booking.

Seems like they may be doing the same thing to Ambrose now. We'll see.

Vince's comments on Cesaro showed how out of touch he is. The fans were LOVING him, he was really over......so they put him with Heyman, take away the swing, and book him like a scrub. And then Vince blames Cesaro for not having "it". Utterly ridiculous.

They have done an absolutely horrible job of developing new stars in the last decade, despite having tons of talent to work with.

Just watched Raw where Cesaro dropped a pipe bomb, before getting beaten by BNB.

I didn't hear the crowd being very vocal when he spoke. There wasn't the intensity that someone like a C.M. Punk gets when he drops a pipebomb. There wasn't the crowd reaction when Daniel Bryan speaks on the mike. Hell, even Bad News Barrett, a heel, gets more reaction, whenever he speaks, than Cesaro.

Cesaro is a talented guy in the ring, but he is limited. He is popular for swinging people, but I can't think of too many memorable matches he was in. Cesaro is at IC/U.S. Title level, at best. His arms are too skinny, and he doesn't have the build, but also lacks the stickwork. He seems more suited to a feud with someone like Kofi Kingston, then main eventing PPVs.

So, Vince doesn't see him as a star. I don't see him as a star. But, most importantly, the fans in the crowd, who buy tickets, didn't cheer or boo him like a star, either. Are they all wrong? Is everyone but you wrong?

Look, it is great that you are so blindly loyal to your favourite wrestler, but you need to take off your rose-colored glasses and see reality for what it is, not how things operating in your world.

When you run a successful multi-million dollar wrestling company, come back and talk to me. Then I may know what you know what you are talking about.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Talk about irony, huh? Talk about life in the corporate world, where family connections often work to the detriment of everyone, including the business entity itself.

It could be Triple H's problem is less Vince McMahon than his own wife. After all, she's the one who owns 1/4 of the WWE stock (plus or minus any the four McMahon original stockholders have bought or sold since the initial offering). Who knows if Paul Levesque is a stockholder at all, save for his connection by marriage. The point is that it could be Stephanie who's telling Paul to back down from Vince. She might have corporate and personal reasons for it, the latter being the simple desire to not upset her aging father with disagreement he would never take from anyone else......her included, perhaps.

Vince has been known as a prize martinet for many years, a man who wants things done his way....and no other way. That he reportedly spends so much time angry while controlling the production indicates he hasn't softened at all.

Yes, he probably acknowledges that he wants Mr. & Mrs. Levesque to succeed him in running the company.....but that only comes about when he's ready to relinquish control.

In my opinion, the day he steps down is the day he dies. Until then, Triple H is probably well aware he is as vulnerable to Vince's demands as everyone else......and if Trips forgets this, he has his wife to remind him.

Triple H stuck between a rock & a hard place? Sure, he is......but it was strictly his choice to marry into that place.

Vince wants things done his way, and no other way.

Well, when his way builds a global wrestling company, which is making millions, is on the stock market, is seeing millions in ticket sales, merchandise, sells out tours, has is own TV network, won the Monday Night Wars,engineered the "Attitude Era" and created an institution in the industry like "Wrestlemania", then I would back his way every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

He gets a few things wrong, but he gets a hell of a lot right, otherwise he would be broke, and WWE would have gone out of business years ago. The facts speak for themselves. Someone who has as much to show from their success that he does, I would be paying attention to what he has to say and think.

 

[Navi]

How do you know that the fault lies with one person, Vince McMahon? You don't know, you don't work there. You probably only believe that, because you believe anything that Mark Madden and the IWC say on here.

There are two sides to any story. Sometimes it's Vince's fault (he's only human), and sometimes it is the talent's. Sometimes it is both.

So, you see, I am not saying that Vince McMahon is always right. But you seem to be saying that the talent is NEVER wrong. That someone who doesn't get pushed is 100% Vince's fault and not because someone may lack charisma, or is a poor worker, or injures other guys, or you can hear crickets when he wrestles.

How do I know the fault lies with one person? The answer is this.

Vince wants things done his way, and no other way.

Well, when his way builds a global wrestling company, which is making millions, is on the stock market, is seeing millions in ticket sales, merchandise, sells out tours, has is own TV network, won the Monday Night Wars,engineered the "Attitude Era" and created an institution in the industry like "Wrestlemania", then I would back his way every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

He gets a few things wrong, but he gets a hell of a lot right, otherwise he would be broke, and WWE would have gone out of business years ago. The facts speak for themselves. Someone who has as much to show from their success that he does, I would be paying attention to what he has to say and think.

And not only have you said it, but he said it as well. He makes the final decision on everything that happens. So yea if something goes wrong, could it be his fault? Damm right. The real problem is not his decision making, it's the fact that when his decision's turn into crap, he can't take the responsibility for it. Does he blame the creative team who turn his marvelous idea's into a story? No he blames the talent on live TV. He tells the whole world they aren't working hard enough. They aren't reaching for the brass ring, in other words they are shit.

Shit workers that he pays every week to go out and entertain the fans. Shit workers who's names sell the merchandise and bring in record sales. Yes Vince that's right, fans don't like your talent they hate them, that's why they buy tickets to your shows, buy the merchandise and PPV's, and subscribe to the network. And it's the fans who have made Vince McMahon the millionaire he is today.

Does everything he touches turns to brass, no it doesn't, a lot of it turns to gold. He deserves the credit for what's happened that's good, just as he deserves to take the blame for the bad decision's he's made. You said he was human but he acts like he's made of Teflon, and that shit doesn't fly with most people

 

[d_henderson1810]

How do I know the fault lies with one person? The answer is this.



And not only have you said it, but he said it as well. He makes the final decision on everything that happens. So yea if something goes wrong, could it be his fault? Damm right. The real problem is not his decision making, it's the fact that when his decision's turn into crap, he can't take the responsibility for it. Does he blame the creative team who turn his marvelous idea's into a story? No he blames the talent on live TV. He tells the whole world they aren't working hard enough. They aren't reaching for the brass ring, in other words they are shit.

Shit workers that he pays every week to go out and entertain the fans. Shit workers who's names sell the merchandise and bring in record sales. Yes Vince that's right, fans don't like your talent they hate them, that's why they buy tickets to your shows, buy the merchandise and PPV's, and subscribe to the network. And it's the fans who have made Vince McMahon the millionaire he is today.

Does everything he touches turns to brass, no it doesn't, a lot of it turns to gold. He deserves the credit for what's happened that's good, just as he deserves to take the blame for the bad decision's he's made. You said he was human but he acts like he's made of Teflon, and that shit doesn't fly with most people

But your logic is flawed, and here's why.

You said that he makes the final decision on everything, right? So, why do you think this ONLY when it comes to bashing his decisions?

If Vince is 100% responsible for what goes on in WWE, and you therefore blame him 100% for all of its failures, how come you don't hold him 100% responsible for all of the successes as well?

You can't have it both ways. You can't blame him for everything, and credit him with nothing. Otherwise, you have no reason to be angry at Vince. Because, if you expect nothing from him, isn't he just living up to your low expectations?

If Vince is responsible for burying stars, then he is as well for building stars. If he does a lot wrong, then he must be credited as doing a lot right as well.

But you give all the credit to the superstars for getting themselves over, but none of the blame if they don't. But if a superstar like Zack Ryder got himself over, then how come he can't keep himself over. Either he is 100% responsible for his own push, or he isn't.

I think that responsibility for all the good and bad lies with both management and the talent. Vince's decisions may be responsible for Punk walking out, but Punk is 100% responsible for choosing to walk out. He had a choice. He could have handled it differently.

Everyone has free will. No-one puts a gun to your head. Vince chooses to run his company the way he wants. The fans CHOOSE to invest in a superstar. You choose to still watch Vince's product each week, even when you don't like it.

Don't blame Vince McMahon if you don't like anything he does, yet still watch anyway. Register your disgust by turning off, not buying merchandise, not ordering the Network, not posting on wrestling sites. But you are 100% responsible for deciding if you want to continue to watch WWE television or not. So, don't come on here whining, when you can do something about it- by turning off. Please do, so I don't have to see you bellyaching anymore.

 

[d_henderson1810]

How do I know the fault lies with one person? The answer is this.



And not only have you said it, but he said it as well. He makes the final decision on everything that happens. So yea if something goes wrong, could it be his fault? Damm right. The real problem is not his decision making, it's the fact that when his decision's turn into crap, he can't take the responsibility for it. Does he blame the creative team who turn his marvelous idea's into a story? No he blames the talent on live TV. He tells the whole world they aren't working hard enough. They aren't reaching for the brass ring, in other words they are shit.

Shit workers that he pays every week to go out and entertain the fans. Shit workers who's names sell the merchandise and bring in record sales. Yes Vince that's right, fans don't like your talent they hate them, that's why they buy tickets to your shows, buy the merchandise and PPV's, and subscribe to the network. And it's the fans who have made Vince McMahon the millionaire he is today.

Does everything he touches turns to brass, no it doesn't, a lot of it turns to gold. He deserves the credit for what's happened that's good, just as he deserves to take the blame for the bad decision's he's made. You said he was human but he acts like he's made of Teflon, and that shit doesn't fly with most people

If wrestlers thought that they got such a rough deal, thought that WWE treats them SO badly, then how come every major talent has wrestled for them at some time or another?

If WWE had a bad reputation, people wouldn't want to go there. Sting wouldn't have gone there. But alas, name me one superstar of the industry, of relevance, who hasn't wrestled there, or won't in the future.

You know why wrestlers join WWE? They know it is where you are made a superstar. They get the money, the exposure, the TV time. They become household names, partly due to their own talent, but also partly because Vince invests TV time into them.

So, was Vince wrong to have SCSA headline WWE back in 1998-99? Was he wrong to push the Rock to the moon? Was he wrong to make the Undertaker a big deal? Oh, that's right. They did that themselves. Okay then, then how come "Stunning" Steve Austin wasn't a WCW Champion then? How big a star was Mark Callaway in WCW?

Either Vince makes stars, or he doesn't. He doesn't always get it right (I never said that he did) but he gets it right a hell of a lot. You just refuse to accept that.