To Watch or Not to Watch...

Exactly what it did. I didn't even fast-forward. It was pretty awful from start to finish, IMO. WWE has become fuckin' Home Shopping Network.

I tried, man. I did. Back to TNA.

The only real moment I was all that excited about was the Pac, Gunn, Dogg reunion with DX.

Your lack of objectivity is unfortunate. There was lots about the show that I liked, and plenty that I didn't (like any professional wrestling program of the last decade in either company), but to suggest it was "awful from start to finish" is hard to comprehend and smacks of an inflexible preconceived notion. Of course one will hate a show if they have themselves convinced of this before it even begins.

Punk heel turn. Advancement in the HHH/Lesnar affair. Lots of nostalgic returns. The Rock back in the spotlight. IC title change. Taker on RAW. Hard to imagine all of this is awful. Some, possibly, but not all.
 
I think it was actually the nostalgia I enjoyed least though. The only real kick worth tuning in for was the DX reunion, and the Rock maybe.

Seeing Stephanie, the laundry list of "legends" who fed the red head to Lita, etc. was all boring to me. I was't really "shocked' to see any of them. I love DDP and I love Roddy Piper, etc. but we see them so often every time WWE wants to do some kind of kick that it's the same shit each time. They don't show up infrequently enough for each new time they come out to feel all that "special" anymore. Duggan is a PRIME example of this. They want comedy? Have someone open a door and have him yell "HOOOOOO" and walk away. Simple as that.

I dunno, just didn't do it for me. If you wanted to put more emphasis on the 1,000th episode, I'd have gone after much more seldom seen RAW superstars from it's history like Jake Roberts, Tatanka, Crush, Scott Hall, Rick Martel, Ludvig Borga, The Nasty Boys, Mr Fuji, etc.

You want legitimate shock and awe? Get Ultimate Warrior.
 
Your lack of objectivity is unfortunate. There was lots about the show that I liked, and plenty that I didn't (like any professional wrestling program of the last decade in either company), but to suggest it was "awful from start to finish" is hard to comprehend and smacks of an inflexible preconceived notion. Of course one will hate a show if they have themselves convinced of this before it even begins.

Punk heel turn. Advancement in the HHH/Lesnar affair. Lots of nostalgic returns. The Rock back in the spotlight. IC title change. Taker on RAW. Hard to imagine all of this is awful. Some, possibly, but not all.

I'm plenty objective. I'm brutally honest about my expectations for a program I don't like, same as most are about TNA after having grown up on WWE.

I watched the entire 3-hour show and enjoyed myself for probably 10 minutes of the whole thing. I spent more time shooting the shit online than I did caring about the majority of the matches going on. The wedding was dumb, but then again I've never liked Danielson in the first place, so that's not surprising.

In short, I just feel like the vast majority of the roster pales in comparison to the talent level of it's predecessors. This is why I'd rather watch a 400-year old Sting v. a 450-year old Flair in wheelchairs than listen to Heath Slater ever speak six words (I literally came THIS close to turning it off when I saw his fuckin' face and heard his stupid voice). And people shit on AJ Styles? This guy talks like he's got a sack of marbles in his mouth.
 
I think it was actually the nostalgia I enjoyed least though. The only real kick worth tuning in for was the DX reunion, and the Rock maybe.

Seeing Stephanie, the laundry list of "legends" who fed the red head to Lita, etc. was all boring to me. I was't really "shocked' to see any of them. I love DDP and I love Roddy Piper, etc. but we see them so often every time WWE wants to do some kind of kick that it's the same shit each time. They don't show up infrequently enough for each new time they come out to feel all that "special" anymore. Duggan is a PRIME example of this. They want comedy? Have someone open a door and have him yell "HOOOOOO" and walk away. Simple as that.

I dunno, just didn't do it for me. If you wanted to put more emphasis on the 1,000th episode, I'd have gone after much more seldom seen RAW superstars from it's history like Jake Roberts, Tatanka, Crush, Scott Hall, Rick Martel, Ludvig Borga, The Nasty Boys, Mr Fuji, etc.

You want legitimate shock and awe? Get Ultimate Warrior.

I think part of your problem is the same problem I face on Thursday nights. Because I follow things sporadically in TNA, I'm not familiar enough with some of the characters or story lines to become fully invested in them. You hated the stuff with Slater because you hate him because he's such an asshole. But then again, that's the point. He's so bad, he speaks so poorly, that you just salivate over the thought of him getting his face punched in. Case in point, Robbie E.

DDP and Stephanie do not appear very frequently at all. Point well taken with Piper, Duggan, and Hart, but you had to know that this show tonight would be overloaded with nostalgia and walks down memory lane.

It would have been quite a coup, though, if they could have brought guys like Ludvig Borga or Crush back. While they were at it, they could have also brought back Rick Rude and Mr. Perfect. Equally impossible, for the same reason.

And the Ultimate Warrior, come on now IDR.
 
I think part of your problem is the same problem I face on Thursday nights. Because I follow things sporadically in TNA, I'm not familiar enough with some of the characters or story lines to become fully invested in them. You hated the stuff with Slater because you hate him because he's such an asshole. But then again, that's the point. He's so bad, he speaks so poorly, that you just salivate over the thought of him getting his face punched in. Case in point, Robbie E.

DDP and Stephanie do not appear very frequently at all. Point well taken with Piper, Duggan, and Hart, but you had to know that this show tonight would be overloaded with nostalgia and walks down memory lane.

It would have been quite a coup, though, if they could have brought guys like Ludvig Borga or Crush back. While they were at it, they could have also brought back Rick Rude and Mr. Perfect. Equally impossible, for the same reason.

And the Ultimate Warrior, come on now IDR.

No, I hate Slater because he sucks. He's awful. He's a body builder with the personality of a doorknob. He talks like he has marbles in his mouth, has a terrible look and has a shit gimmick. He belonged with that group of other generic nobodies who came out angry that no one cared about how boring they were before they got fed to Kane and Taker. He is not in the same boat as assholes who I just don't like like Robbie E, who are actually playing the character well. Slater just flat out sucks.

I also had no idea Borga or Crush died. That's a shame. So much of the talent, now that I'm looking at it, from the first few years of RAW is gone. :(

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the "memories" from tonight just weren't memorable enough for me, but that's also pretty expected, so I suppose there was bound to be hurdles they'd never get past with me considering I grew up on WCW, not WWF. My memories are there. I'd have marked the fuck out if I saw Kevin Nash come out to throw Rey Mysterio into a semi-truck head-first like a dart. I know that much for certain! :D
 
I tend to side more with IDR here, except that I really did like tonight's show. I agree with most of the points you made - most of the legends we've seen too much to get excited about - but I still thought there was enough solid content for me to enjoy it.

Ironically it wasn't anything from the past that did it for me, it was all the stuff going forward. I really liked the Lesnar/Hunter confrontation, and we really don't see Stephanie all that much, so her return drew an above average "pop" from me. The Rock's return was done well, and his run-in at the end was great. And of course, CM Punk's turn was my favorite moment of the night (except maybe the Mae Young segment...Somehow that segment had me literally laughing out of my chair).

I agree about Heath Slater. He's awkward looking and has all the charisma and mic talent of a ginger bread house (yes, i chose that strategically). He wasn't the worst choice to get jobbed-out by legends every week, but I would have preferred it to be some guy that actually had a chance after all the Raw 1,000 hullabaloo was over and done with. Somebody like Miz or Jericho, who have proven they can handle that role in the past, would have worked much better. Slater is easy to hate, but it's not because he's great at his role, it's because he's just plain awful. My boo's are legitimate.

I think part of your problem is the same problem I face on Thursday nights. Because I follow things sporadically in TNA, I'm not familiar enough with some of the characters or story lines to become fully invested in them.
I honestly don't think any of WWE's characters are complex enough that even the most casual of fans couldn't just pick them up and fully understand their "depth". 10 seconds with any WWE Superstar besides maybe CM Punk, Daniel Bryan and a few others, and you know what they're all about. That's not a huge, awful thing - Ziggler is pretty shallow character-wise, but he's also damn good - it's just the way their product is these days.

You hated the stuff with Slater because you hate him because he's such an asshole. But then again, that's the point. He's so bad, he speaks so poorly, that you just salivate over the thought of him getting his face punched in. Case in point, Robbie E.
See above. And no, I hate Robbie E for the same reasons. The difference is, when the Miz comes out I boo the shit out of him. When Slater or Robbie E comes out...I sit there and bide my time until he's off my screen or out of my field of vision.

It would have been quite a coup, though, if they could have brought guys like Ludvig Borga or Crush back. While they were at it, they could have also brought back Rick Rude and Mr. Perfect. Equally impossible, for the same reason.
Oh hatehabs, you snarky sultry minx...

And the Ultimate Warrior, come on now IDR.
Don't hate. Ultimate Warrior would have been a very doable aquisition for Raw 1,000. He's tried to get himself back in the buzz with social networking (Twitter, YouTube, etc etc), and Vince was reportedly trying by "any means necessary" to get people for the event. I was actually more surprised that Warrior and Flair DIDN'T show up... Probably more so than Austin.
 
I don't see how anyone can hate Slater. He's been brilliant these past few months, and I think he's definitely become a selling point of the show. "Who's going to kick Slaters ass this week?" is definitely a question thrown around the LDs and text messages with friends.
 
Once again, Heath Slater is not good. He's not a good heel. You know who I love to hate? Bobby Roode. He's a conniving, selfish blowhard and a tireless worker. You know who else I love to hate? Bully Ray. He's a loud-mouthed bully who cowers in the face of real challenge. These men have talent. They have skill. They are playing a ROLE, often to perfection. Heath Slater SUCKS. He's a bumbling, southern moron with a Ken doll haircut and a $15 fake tan who only matters because he's getting tossed around by guys people ACTUALLY used to care about.

To put this in perspective, how many of you can ever see Heath Slater returning 20 years from now as a RAW "legend" to work a match against some new up and coming "easy to hate" guy?






























That's what I thought.

He sucks. Legitimately sucks.
 
Personally, I never suggested that I thought he was any good whatsoever. I simply suggested that he is a good candidate to feed to the legends, simply because it brings enjoyment to the audience, seeing this douchebag getting the shit kicked out of him. And it's just as well to feed him to these guys, rather than someone who is any good or someone who actually has the potential for a brighter future. I'd rather see the one man band (baby) get slapped around by Vader, DDP, and eventually Lita (who looked freaking amazing by the way) rather than Tyson Kidd or someone like that. I wouldn't want to see Bobby Roode or Bully Ray play this role, but I don't mind at all seeing Slater treated this way. I see no brilliance, but a convenient scapegoat in a role that suits him to a tee, one he fully deserves.
 
Pretty sure Slater is suppose to be a shitty heel, he's suppose to be annoying, stupid, & suck, so you'll be happy to see whomever come out & squash him. To put him in conversation with the likes of Roode or Styles is pretty ludicrous, of course they're miles ahead him in about every way imaginable, I don't think you'll find anyone stupid enough to seriously suggest otherwise.

Sorry you didn't like the show IDR, but at least you gave it a shot, which is more than I can say for most of the people who endlessly bash TNA.
 
Pretty sure Slater is suppose to be a shitty heel, he's suppose to be annoying, stupid, & suck, so you'll be happy to see whomever come out & squash him. To put him in conversation with the likes of Roode or Styles is pretty ludicrous, of course they're miles ahead him in about every way imaginable, I don't think you'll find anyone stupid enough to seriously suggest otherwise.

Sorry you didn't like the show IDR, but at least you gave it a shot, which is more than I can say for most of the people who endlessly bash TNA.

I really tried. I literally went through the entire three-hour show and didn't fast-forward through anything. I do that every time I try to get into WWE again, but it just doesn't do it for me.
 
Not everyone can be the calculating or monster heel. Someone needs to play the buffoon and both in terms of buffoonery and in-ring wise, Slater has been perfect for the role given to him for the past few weeks - a crash test dummy you tune in to see get its ass kicked.

Personally, I would far rather see him build himself up only to sell an ass-kicking that watch almost anything that the likes of Santino or Eric Young do week in week out. Indeed, at times I think he could teach Ziggler a thing or two about the timing of OTT selling. Slater's headstand selling of the Clothesline From Hell was one of the highlights of the night.

I would have loved to have seen Slater in the 24/7 Hardcore title days. He could have been a Crash Holly type. He still could be should he be catapulted into the US title picture - him beating Santino and then escaping with the title week after week, Honky-Tonk/Whipwreck style, no matter how badly he got destroyed would make for some fun viewing.
 
I really tried. I literally went through the entire three-hour show and didn't fast-forward through anything. I do that every time I try to get into WWE again, but it just doesn't do it for me.

I'm the same IDR. WCW went under, I was shattered, stopped watching until I stumbled upon TNA in 2006. Ever since my interest in wrestling has been rejuvenated, I have attempted to sit through a few Raws and I just can't do it. I don't connect at all with their wrestlers, I struggle to pinpoint what it is about the WWE that I don't like and I'm not sure why I continue to give them a chance. I just do.

I watched last night and again, it wasn't a show that held my interest the entire time. There were a few good moments but a nostalgic show isn't something I would like as I have never been a fan in the first place. DX received a huge pop, while I sat there wondering what was so special these guys had done over the years.

I don't hate the WWE, I just can't watch it and last night was probably the final chance I give it. I do watch Wrestlemania every year, and that's probably enough for me, because Wrestlemania is actually awesome.
 
Heath Slater is awful, but that's what made his gimmick the past month or so enjoyable. Imagine if it was someone talented, like say Cody Rhodes, in there every week getting squashed by these guys... no one here would have enjoyed it. But since it was a goofy, no potential having douchebag, it was fun to see those guys back in WWE again to kick his ass.

Anyways, I enjoyed the show last night. The DX reunion was good because of the return of X-Pac and the New Age Outlaws, Bryan Danielson was BRILLIANT and I loved his segment with Punk and Rocky, I dig AJ as the new GM of Raw, I really liked the Heyman/Steph/Brock/HHH segment, and while the main event was disappointing, Punk's heel turn was awesome and completely made up for it. I thought it was a very good show.
 
Anyways, I enjoyed the show last night. The DX reunion was good because of the return of X-Pac and the New Age Outlaws, Bryan Danielson was BRILLIANT and I loved his segment with Punk and Rocky, I dig AJ as the new GM of Raw, I really liked the Heyman/Steph/Brock/HHH segment, and while the main event was disappointing, Punk's heel turn was awesome and completely made up for it. I thought it was a very good show.

This. Completely.

The show was great. The only problem I had was that there was no Austin, but outside of that everything was perfect.

And Heath Slater is great. As long as he isn't winning any matches.
 
I thought it was a good show. It piped in a large supply of nostalgia, some a little over-exposed (Piper, Slaughter, Duggan...) and some fresh (N.A.O, X-Pac, Lita, A.P.A). But more importantly, it made the current driving storylines the most important parts of the show (The Wedding, Brock/HHH, the WWE title fiasco and Punk's turn), and it did so by giving them the most time and emphasis. I think it did what it set out to do. These are a few notes I took whilst watching:

How is Mae young still alive? Will she ever die?

How many people actually got the trish and HHH segment and it's allusion to their segment in 2001-ish?

Dude love was a great idea. We've seen Mick Foley any amount of times over the years. Why not use his range of gimmicks and personalities to a fuller extent. Well done.

What drugs was slick on?

AJ as GM? hmm.... I think it's an interesting prospect to say the least, but only if she doesn't end up dominating the bulk of every show and can extend her reach to more than just the stories with which she has been directly concerned ie if she can add a touch to Ziggler's bid for world championship glory in a personal manner. A general manager should see to all things with their own approach. I want to know AJ's approach and how she can use it in any given situation. She's not just a GM to oppose Bryan, she's a universal character now and has to have a bigger range.

Bret's introduction of The Miz was epic.

Glad Miz won the IC belt. Means I probably wont have to se him as much as I otherwise would now.

Best thing about Raw = Charlie Sheen. 'No idea how to treat a woman' - charlie sheen. He's a great natural character that could genuinely lend himself to the world of professional wrestling in much the same way as a man like Chael Sonnen, Muhammad Ali or Roddy Piper could. All are great characters in their own right. People forget, some of the best professional wrestlers of all time never wrestled.

HHH's crazy mouth as he introduced lesnar. Anybody else notice it? He looked like he was trying to eat his own face.

Everything lesnar does in the ring since his return has a realistic feel to it which he's successfully brought back from the UFC. I'm not a big HHH fan and feel that I shouldn't want to look forward to this match and that HHH is not a good opponent for Brock, but I can't help but be a little excited for this one. That can only mean a lot of good work has gone into it. I like that they haven;t baked it every week, I think it's kept the reactions big and positive going forward into the match.

Annoying levels of advertising on the show. Why not just change HHH's name to Triple A Duracell batteries for the night.

How did Slater become the most anticiated thing on the 1000th episode of Raw? He's terrible for the same reason Laurenitis was terrible, because he's actually terrible. If you want a way to prove it, turn him face and look on as people continue to boo. Then you'll understand people don't dislike the character, they dislike the man. Sure it's been fun watching him get tossed around, but not because he's so good at his job that he FORCED you to watch him get beat on, merely because he's so bad that you wanted it. That isn't a good thing... not for Slater at least... not if he ever wants to be taken seriously... which he never will... because he's awful.

The in-jokes style of commentary which we've become accostumed to on Raw is disparaging. The s******ing of Michael Cole and over-the-head references he makes make the commentary team appear as if they don't really care or appreciate the job they do.

Lita looked fucking good. Punk keeps that girl in shape.

Bell man ought to be the new name of the timekeeper.

Slater's selling of the clothesline from hell = best ever. Is he a part time breakdancer?

DAMN!

Lawler and Cole ruined the finish to the title match before it had happened, making very heavy reference and emphasis to the fact that the title only changes hand by pin fall or submission and not by a DQ, deliberately mentioning and emphasizing that it wouldn't change hands by DQ. A little frustrating to those who could detect the hint when it reared it's ugly rear.

CM Punk heel turn is a great way to extend his run as champion and there is a good natural angle for a match and feud with The Rock with Punk not wanting a part-time guy to steal his thunder nor his title. Interesting to see how much more we see Rock in the coming months.

My questions would be:

- Where, once again, does this leave John Cena? No WWE title for over a year? Wha-huh?

- What plans have they got for AJ as the GM?

- Where does Bryan go from here. He's probably been the best performer they have had this year and deserves to stay on top.

- What happened to Jericho's announcement?

- Has nostalgia lost most of it's value? Is it time to stop playing on the past, utilise it only when it can improve current affairs (Booker T/Cody Rhodes) and look forward to a new generation of nostalgia built upon the foundations which are set from here on in?

Despite me saying it's a good show, it didn't really appeal to me as the WWE rarely does any more. The overly-controlled feel to every segment, the laboured, deliberated manner in which everything has to be undertaken and essentially the appealing to a very mainstream, commercial and young market to which I clearly do not belong all leaves me feel it is a show I could enjoy only if I was somehow able to have my balls retract far enough up my body. My thought on WWE being PG is, and always has been, well... when I was younger than 10 I was watching wrestling. I remember staying up to watch The Royal Rumble 2000 with my dad, the very night HHH and Cactus Jack bled from head to toe and ripped each other up with chairs, thumbtacks and barbed wire. My friends all watched the same thing. I think the WWE believes that if they try to mature their product, their audience will become solely mature and they spend less on the WWE than kids do. I don't think this is the case. In a time when most children before 10 have played something like a Mortal Kombat or a Call of Duty, and then you try to sell them little people running round in a Benny Hill fashion or petty squabbles between sooner-kick-your-ass-than-look-at-you men, you aren't going to lose your younger audience in this day and age by maturing your product. However, if you want to play safe, feel free to see it as an "aint broke - don't fix" situation. That's where they are now, no real loss, no real growth, no risky steps taken. Smart from a business viewpoint, boring from a viewer-ship one.

That, coupled with the fact that Vince's control-freakish nature manifests itself omnipresently and strangles the life out of creativity at it's very core, leaves me watching a product that I feel isolates me as a fan, but only because it's not something I'm supposed to be watching any more. I no longer watch the WWE in high spirits, I watch in hope.
 

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