TNA's booking sucks!!!!!

[CaptainZaltan]

Do you know how many times I've read/heard that? Too many. For some reason, 99% of the time it feels like the people saying it are running on auto-pilot, and don't know WHY they're saying it, it's just a flaw in pro wrestling and hey, it's TNA, let's shit on it about everything, even fabricated crap.

I, personally, don't see that horrible booking that everybody's talking about. Maybe I'm not smarky enough, I'm looking to improve on that. So please, PLEASE somebody give me examples of bad TNA booking. And no, not some crap from last year or five years ago. Recently. I'm not saying that it does not exist, nor am I saying that it does - I simply need examples just so I can sort this out for myself.

It has nothing to do with being 'smarky', it has to do with people having a different opinion than yours. Personally, I hate Vince Russo's writing; always have. And not because it's 'cool' to hate Russo, or whatever logic his defenders adhere to. Show me any fiction that is littered with plotholes, dropped storylines, inconsistent characterization, zero long-term planning, and just plain incoherent and sloppy storytelling, and I will dislike it regardless of who writes it.

In any case, this topic is pointless. The problem is, people like what they like, and dislike what they dislike, and any examples you get are just going to be rationalizations for personal tastes. Nothing you say is going to change the simple fact that I just don't like the damn writing. Similarly, there's nothing I can say to you that's going to suddenly make you dislike Impact. It's like a joke when you have to explain the punchline. You either get it or you don't.

What I CAN tell you, is that my opinion has nothing to do with me preferring WWE (I don't), thinking it's 'fun' to criticize TNA (I don't. I actually like TNA minus the writing), or thinking it's 'cool' to criticize TNA (nothing about wrestling is cool. Period). I doubt there's a single person that frequents these forums who doesn't WANT to enjoy TNA. This idea that people shit on TNA simply because it's TNA, or because they are 'smarky', is a complete invention of a select group of the IWC who are simply incapable of dealing with the reality that not everyone shares their opinions. You all need to get the fuck over yourselves and stop being personally offended every time someone criticizes something you like. As Vince Russo himself would say, "It's only wrestling." No-one is criticizing you for liking TNA even if they don't, so why not show some similar respect?

But with that being said, and since you asked:

1. Samoa Joe gets kidnapped. No resolution or explanation is ever given. Whether it's shoehorned into the 'deception' storyline long after most fans have stopped caring about it (like the 'White Hummer' resolution in WCW) hardly changes the fact that it sucked.

2. Abyss becomes the Green Lantern with Hulk Hogan's Hall of Fame ring FROM ANOTHER COMPANY. Who was entertained by this?

3. TNA spends months - arguably years - building AJ Styles into the main guy in the company, only to job him out to RVD in (what should have been) a dream match, with zero advertising and on FREE TV. AJ came out of this looking incredibly weak, and it's taken him a long time to recover (he's still only in the midcard). Which leads into:

5. TNA has can't build credible heels. They dropped the ball with Wolfe, and turned Anderson face when his heel work was at it's best. AJ was a strong heel, until they let a midcard showboat run all over him on free tv. Going into Lockdown, Team Flair lost every official encounter with Team Hogan going into Lockdown (post-match beatdowns don't count). Fourtune members were losing matches a week after the faction was formed. Abyss is a 'monster heel' again, but loses to just about everyone (even Stevie Richards). Yes, it's a scripted show and everyone needs to lose occasionally. But if your villain doesn't look credible going into a major match (ie: they lose constantly and look weak), than why would anyone pay to see the match?

6. Pseudo-reality bullshit. A few weeks ago I was watching Reaction, and I recall someone saying "this isn't about gimmicks. It's real". Tonight, Kevin Nash threw around the word 'worker' and talked about a backstage situation with Samoa Joe. The entire feud with Sting/Jarrett/Nash/Joe is built around allusions to backstage politics and situations that many fans don't know or care about. V.R pulls this kind of crap constantly. Yes, smart marks exist. Yes, we all know things happening behind the scenes. But the notion that you can use terms and situations referencing the shows scripted nature in the middle of a promo that's supposed to allow fans to suspend their disbelief just hurts my damned head. When other shows/movies take a moment to pause and wink at the camera and reference some well-known real-life situation involving the actors or production, it's cute on occasion. TNA is winking like a man having a seizure.

7. Kayfabing away reality. One of the main fears about Hogan coming into TNA was that he would bring in all of his old flunkies. He did, but he made sure to cut promos talking about how he wasn't going to. Yes, they are all gone now. Doesn't change the fact that he did it for as long as he could get away with it, and the general perception out there is that TNA is always going to be run like this. Rightly so, as EV2 is doing exactly the same thing now, with Dreamer and crew cutting promos talking about how they aren't there to take anyone's spot, while they do just that.

8. TNA spends months pushing a story with Kurt Angle where he is moving through the top 10 TNA rankings (which are dumb to begin with) and will retire if he loses, thus giving away the ending of every match. They then drop this outright when they realize that they are running out of contract dates for their current champion (showing a complete lack of foresight), and throw Kurt into a tournament instead. Yes, the stipulation is still on the table (unfortunately). But TNA had to change horses midstream because they didn't have the good sense to make long term plans.

Looking at your responses to other posters, I'm sure you'll say "but WWE does the same things!" And noone fucking cares, because: A. WWE's shitty writing does not make TNA's shitty writing any easier to swallow B. WWE is written for children. C. Shitty writing or not, the WWE is an absolute powerhouse at generating stars and making money. TNA isn't, and like it or not a lot of people here feel that the writing/booking is a major reason why.

I'm sure I could come up with more examples, but I've wasted enough time as it is. As I said, nothing I say is going to convince you, or vice-versa. You asked people to tell you why they didn't like Impacts writing; they took the time to do so. Write me a post detailing why TNA's writing DOESN'T suck, and I'll take the time to tell you why your opinions are wrong and you're a smark. If you don't like criticisms of TNA, than don't create topics asking for them. Noone is trying to dissuade you from enjoyment of TNA, and noone is criticizing you because you do like it. It doesn't hurt you in any way for people to use these forums to express opinions that differ from your own. If your honest intention is to convert TNA's critics to fans, this isn't the way to do it.

 

[johnbragg]

Zeven_Zion:

You say that it's not fair to criticize the Sting Deception angle, since it hasn't been resolved yet. You pretty much admit that the Samoa Joe kidnapping angle was portly thought out, but dismiss it because it they changed the plan, unless they didn't.

Sometimes, bad booking is the result of unexpected changes in plan--contracts, injuries, etc. For example, Nash's series of turns on Eric Young and The Band, as Hall and Waltman worked themselves out of TNA.

Sometimes, bad booking is the result of Creative not planning things out, and/or not following through on the plan. Face it, there was no plan for the Samoa Joe kidnapping angle. They just threw some shit on TV, and they couldn't think of a way to explain it so they just dropped it. And they were probably doing the same thing with the Sting Deception angle, and now they have Bound For Glory coming up, and Russo has to come up with some explanations for Sting's Deception, and Abyss' They, that will somehow patch everything together.

You believe that the writers have a plan for Sting and Nash. Just like fans of Lost and BSG believed that the writers had answers and a plan, when the endings of the shows revealed that the writers were just throwing "mysteries" out there with no real idea of how they would resolve them.

Most of the people criticizing the Sting Deception angle pretty much expect that, if answers are ever given, they will be stupid--the answers themselves will make no sense. This assumption is based on past history of similar mysterious, convoluted angles--that never paid off.

Can you think of a long-term TNA angle that DID have a satisfying payoff?

Does anyone remember who brought down the mighty Main Event Mafia? What was the big payoff there? That's less than a year old, so it still counts.

 

[mrbrownstone]

First off I want to prelude this by saying that I do like TNA and watch every week and I acknowledge that they are capable of good things like No Suddender whih was a very good PPV.

Having said that there are many flaws in TNA's booking. Take tonight's Impact for example where Lethal won the X Division championship, how in the world does that make any sense. For those of us who dont get Xplosion then we haven't seen Lethal in weeks then he randomly comes along and beats the young heel, who they are trying to push, who is part of a stable they want to make look dominant in only 5 minuites with no build up what so ever. How in the world does that make any sense, someone please tell me.

Another example is the lack of follow through in their storylines. Take Joe for instance he was kidnapped a while back, every few weeks some vingettes were shown on Impact of him with his kidnappers. Then when he finally returned it was hardly mentioned and it was certainly never explained and it would have left alot of the audience confused.

 

[Bobby B]

You really want to do this... right, ok.

The TNA World Title Tournament – Wow, where to begin. Let's start with the fact that Eric Bischoff said that TNA cannot go on without a champion, so they were stripping RVD of the belt. Urgh, ok. So 5 weeks later we still have no champion, and RVD is coming back next week – surely just give him the belt back?

This along with the fact that the whole tournament was completely stupid. Bischoff said it was started using the top 8 of the top 10 rankings – yet never explained how Abyss or AJ Styles didn't make the match (despite being 1st and 6th in the rankings previously) and yet how people like Rob Terry did.

Then booking 4 faces in the semi finals. No intruigue, nothing, just clueless booking. Then throwing Angle Hardy onto a PPV with zero build-up. Then people calling a match “match of the year” despite some of the worst booking I have ever seen. Oooh we'll have 5 minutes overtime (since fucking when have PPV matches have time limits?). No winner – another 5 minutes. Then the match ends in a draw because Angle was cut too deep – despite the fact they towelled down Angle's face and there was a barely a cut visible.

This whole tournament has been a shambles.

Abyss – Can someone give me an explanation as to why Abyss wasn't arrested for trying to murder RVD? Abyss has walked around since, seemingly having taken out everyone's favourite guy (RVD), and yet people only seem to want to attack him one-on-one. They build Abyss up as this monster heel, then he gets beaten by Stevie fucking Richards. Great way to keep heat on Abyss.

And no concequences for attempted murder? So if Abyss did that to Hulk, or Eric, or Dixie that would be ok would it? People say TNA booking makes no sense – because it doesn't.

RVD – So he gets sliced open to within inches of his life, then will return to action fine 5 weeks later? C'mon.

FOURtune – I can't be the only one to see this can I? Flair, Styles, Kazarian, Williams, Morgan, Roode, Storm. 1,2,3,4,5...(hang on)...6,7. Seven? Now either I can't count, or this is another example of TNA being completely fucking stupid. Their name is spelled F-O-U-R-T-U-N-E, they come out, making a 4 finger sign, and their logo is based on two mirroring '4's. Seriously – this is stupid.

Fourtune – The name thing aside, how weak has fortune looked? This week alone two of their members lost cleanly. There's no heat on these guys because nobody believes they can win a match. Atleast with the Nexus angle (and don't think this hasn't pissed me off to some degree – because it has), they were built as a group of rookies who strength as a group was far greater than the sum of its parts. Barrett aside, they rarely win matches on their own, because they are rookies. FoUrtune is a group filled with experienced TNA guys, and yet they don't seem to want to make them look strong – at all. The only wins they get are against EV2.0 guys, when it comes to ANYONE ELSE on the TNA roster – they completely suck.

Or the simple fact that for some stupid reason they're booked as the heels. Despite the fact they get a face cheer every time they enter the impact zone.

EV2.0 – Is it possible to book a faction more badly than FoUrtune – YES! EV2.0 have literally disintergrated. Somehow they went from having an entire PPV full of ex-ECW talent, to having Dreamer, Sabu and Raven. So they have to bring in Brian Kendrick. Or the fact that Beer Money completely buried the FBI in a tag match.

Hogan/Sting/Nash/Jarrett/Joe – Please don't say “wait for the pay off”. I still don't have a clue what these lot are feuding about. And I've tried to find out. To the average viewer, is there any interest in this storyline at all? All we know is that it's about backstage WCW politics. And this is supposed to get me interested how?

Ending Kurt Angle's top 10 run – Briefly putting aside the retirement stip, this was a storyline that actually have a little bit of sense. But it's far too easy to leave it at logical. For some stupid reason half way through his run they cut it off to have a frigging Title tournament.

Putting a retirement stipulation on every Kurt Angle match – Please, this guy isn't going to retirement 50 minutes into a taped iMPACT show – so don't bill it like that. And if you are, MAKE IT A BIG FRIGGING DEAL. (Bored Tenay voice) “Oh look, it's angle against Hernandez, and if Angle loses he retires (end). It was totally pointless. He was never going to lose. They're building to a 3-way at BFG so that Anderson can win but Angle doesn't have to be pinned.

The Top 10 – Isn't the entire point of a top 10 ranking system to outline the line of succession to the title should for any reason the champion need to vacate his title. The first time a top 10 ranking system is actually needed, and we cut to a tournament? WHAT THE FUCK? The Top 10 is actually a good idea, but good idea's don't get far in TNA without Russo, Hogan and Bischoff dousing it in crap. They announce the top 10, then nobody reacts, at all.

 

[AndyUK]

Personally, I am just sick and tired of the Crash TV format that Vince Russo swears by. It's just so dated now and they should stop living in the past. It was only good for one year in the first place, 1998 and he's been living off of that year ever since. He's never written good television consistently since then.

The WWF in 1999 was lame and only got better when Kreski came in, WCW was lame and now TNA is lame. He doesn't seem to care about telling a story, he just writes for shock value. They just drop storylines and feuds for no reason at all and while I'm not saying this has never happened in WWE, they don't do it often. Usually, if a storyline isn't working then they just end it quicker than they were going to. In 1998, the Attitude Era style was innovative and fresh. Now, we've seen his schick so much that isn't shocking or exciting anymore, it's just what we expect.

 

[shattered dreams]

Yep, in 1999 Russo was involved in this really lame segment called "this is your life." Of course, no one watched that. This thread is just full of ravings that do not make much sense by those determined to support their view of TNA or Russo or whatever.

Did someone really suggest usually no winner in one match means the other side of tournament automatically wins? That is not remotely true and draws have been used for years to feed into three-way matches. But this individual claims in fact it would have been better for TNA to have Angle-Hardy have their great match to close out the show only for management to say sorry guys Anderson is the champ for some odd reason? If that is what you think is good then no wonder you think TNA is bad.

It baffles me how anyone can knock the deception angle. They are quite obviously on the cusp of explaining it and getting to the payoff. Can I say the mystery gm angle sucks because they haven't revealed who it is yet? Get a fucking attention span already. The point is not that WWE bad booking excuses TNA bad booking but that problems inherent in all prowrestling booking should not be portrayed as a specific to TNA only problem or flaw. People should also realize that creative is subjective. Just because you do not like something hardly means everybody does not and contrary to popular belief anyone who likes something you do not isn't simply a blind mark.

 

[Legendary1]

Yep, in 1999 Russo was involved in this really lame segment called "this is your life." Of course, no one watched that. This thread is just full of ravings that do not make much sense by those determined to support their view of TNA or Russo or whatever.

Did someone really suggest usually no winner in one match means the other side of tournament automatically wins? That is not remotely true and draws have been used for years to feed into three-way matches. But this individual claims in fact it would have been better for TNA to have Angle-Hardy have their great match to close out the show only for management to say sorry guys Anderson is the champ for some odd reason? If that is what you think is good then no wonder you think TNA is bad.

This is why I dread posting on one of these threads...... Yes, usually in every single elimination tournament (King of the Ring or any of the multiple championship tournaments over the years.) if one match ends in a double count-out, double-DQ, time limit expires, no-contest etc., the next person on the bracket that they would face, would receive a "BYE" and advance to the next round without having to wrestle anyone. (Now if it was just a #1 Contenders match and it was a "no contest" sure, usually you would use that excuse to book a triple threat because you need a main event for the next PPV thats 3 weeks out.) In this case Anderson has a case that he should win the next round match as result of a "BYE" and be declared the new champion (Now obviously you wouldn't have a face win the title this way only a heel.) ....BUT since they booked Angle/Hardy first on the PPV, really it would make Anderson vs Pope the championship match!!!!! SO yes, since they were booking it this way, it would have been better to close the PPV with a (as you already called it) "GREAT" Angle vs Hardy match instead of Anderson vs Pope??!! And I said then you would have the announcers SELL the confusion to end the show.."Who becomes the champ now?? "We had a no contest??!!" "Is it Anderson?"... (If the match is last management don't have time to make a decision.) And then go into you reasoning for having a re-match or making it a triple threat on the next impact....... But you still have the bad booking of the ex-champ RVD returning before the new champ is crowned and having only an 8-man tournament stretched out over 2 months!!!! .... I'm not trying to pick on TNA but their shows are not booked well.

 

[shattered dreams]

The no contest resulting in someone winning the title is anything but common. IMO it would have played a million times worse than what they did. Like I said booking is subjective. What is your expertise that makes you think you know better than people who have been doing it professionally for decades?

The RVD situation was unique. How about we see what happens before pretending you have all the answers? He was off tv selling the bloody attack situation that launched ReAction. It has been over a kayfabe month. I would not be surprised to see the quickness of his title being stripped and who did it being part of the story. This insistence of saying stories do not make sense in the middle of them is ******ed. If all the loose ends were tied up then what is the point of continuing the story?

Oh yeah the person that PMed me essentially saying Russo purposefully scripted Owen's death is probably the single most asinine thing I have ever read on here. That is taking the obsession with Russo hate to a whole new level of lunacy.

 

[AndyUK]

Yep, in 1999 Russo was involved in this really lame segment called "this is your life." Of course, no one watched that. This thread is just full of ravings that do not make much sense by those determined to support their view of TNA or Russo or whatever.

I never said nobody watched WWF in 1999 or that there wasn't anything good in the year. The good stuff just wasn't consistent. Although its popularity was at its peak then, I do not think that it was a good product during that year whatsoever. To me, the storylines and matches in WWE in 2010 are far, far stronger than the WWF in 1999. The characters were the only thing that were better.

Like I said, I loved the year before, 1998 but regardless of the amount of viewers any of the stuff he has written since then has received, I don't believe he has written a consistently good product since that year. That's just my opinion.

 

[Legendary1]

The no contest resulting in someone winning the title is anything but common. IMO it would have played a million times worse than what they did. Like I said booking is subjective. What is your expertise that makes you think you know better than people who have been doing it professionally for decades?

The RVD situation was unique. How about we see what happens before pretending you have all the answers? He was off tv selling the bloody attack situation that launched ReAction. It has been over a kayfabe month. I would not be surprised to see the quickness of his title being stripped and who did it being part of the story. This insistence of saying stories do not make sense in the middle of them is ******ed. If all the loose ends were tied up then what is the point of continuing the story.

This is why I shouldn't have wasted my time. Your not even reading what I'm writing, your to busy trying to defend TNA and shoot down everyone else in their defense. I never said they should give anyone the title as a result of a no contest I was pointing out the flaw in their logic of booking....Yes I'm sure in the big scheme it will be revealed that RVD was screwed. (Doesn't excuse the extended prolonging of crowning a new champion.)....If TNA's booking was so great then their ratings would be better...bottom line.... Oh, and BTW, I'm sure I have noooo experience in the ring or booking matches, I probably have no idea what I'm talking about. LOL

 

[K4P-Unleashed]

Do you know how many times I've read/heard that? Too many. For some reason, 99% of the time it feels like the people saying it are running on auto-pilot, and don't know WHY they're saying it, it's just a flaw in pro wrestling and hey, it's TNA, let's shit on it about everything, even fabricated crap.

I, personally, don't see that horrible booking that everybody's talking about. Maybe I'm not smarky enough, I'm looking to improve on that. So please, PLEASE somebody give me examples of bad TNA booking. And no, not some crap from last year or five years ago. Recently. I'm not saying that it does not exist, nor am I saying that it does - I simply need examples just so I can sort this out for myself.

Like I've said before. TNA is the IWC's whipping boy. TNA could book the best storyline anyone has seen in years and not get credit for it, while WWE can push guys like John Cena hundreds of time and it's "smart" booking. Sure, if you're in it for the money Cena needs to be the forefront of your company but when will you admit that it gets boring?

Anyways, look, TNA's booking is not that bad and it hasn't been for the past year. A lot of what happened when Hulk and Eric first came in were caused by new wrestlers and the writers having to get adjusted to them and their personalities. Personally, I'm very happy with TNA right now. That's not to say it can't change though.

*cough* Jeff Hardy winning at BFG *cough*

 

[brianv326]

i don't hate OJ i just switch channels when he's on my tv

 

[Bobby B]

Like I've said before. TNA is the IWC's whipping boy. TNA could book the best storyline anyone has seen in years and not get credit for it.

WHAT THE !%@£ ?

"TNA could book the best storyline anyone has seen in years" - well if they can they're choosing not to.

I'll directly to my post made above (Post Number #29) baring the KO's feud (which although I'm not enthralled by, it's ok television) I've outlined serious booking flaws with every single feud going on right now.

I don't think it's the case that TNA is the IWC's whipping boy. I think it's the other way around. When TNA regularly book crap storylines, TNA fanboys simply say "the IWC hate TNA - the storylines are fine" when they're not.

Eric Bischoff leads the line "Constructive Criticism is fine, but any smarks will be blocked from the page" (referring to his facebook page), i.e. any that agrees with him are fine, but those that don't are simply referred to as "smarks".

You can find holes in WWE storylines, but you can drive tanks through holes in TNA storylines. Simply saying "The IWC hate TNA" isn't an excuse. Go back to my post earlier, I've picked apart each storyline going on right now.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

So let me get this straight-
You think TNA booking sucks, and you don't like WWE as well. But you are here on a Wrestling Forum giving your two cent.
Am I sharp in assuming that you've just professed your ignorance in action and opinion?

Bravo, you've just become the Lady Gaga of WZ Forums,

I never said that their booking sucks. I simply asked all the people who THINK it does, to give me some examples so I can see it for myself. Didn't you see me DEFFENDING their booking so far, or you just forgot to read through my post.

Bravo, you've just become an ignorant idiot.

 

[MB1025]

You really want to do this... right, ok.

The TNA World Title Tournament – Wow, where to begin. Let's start with the fact that Eric Bischoff said that TNA cannot go on without a champion, so they were stripping RVD of the belt. Urgh, ok. So 5 weeks later we still have no champion, and RVD is coming back next week – surely just give him the belt back?

This along with the fact that the whole tournament was completely stupid. Bischoff said it was started using the top 8 of the top 10 rankings – yet never explained how Abyss or AJ Styles didn't make the match (despite being 1st and 6th in the rankings previously) and yet how people like Rob Terry did.

Then booking 4 faces in the semi finals. No intruigue, nothing, just clueless booking. Then throwing Angle Hardy onto a PPV with zero build-up. Then people calling a match “match of the year” despite some of the worst booking I have ever seen. Oooh we'll have 5 minutes overtime (since fucking when have PPV matches have time limits?). No winner – another 5 minutes. Then the match ends in a draw because Angle was cut too deep – despite the fact they towelled down Angle's face and there was a barely a cut visible.

This whole tournament has been a shambles.

Abyss – Can someone give me an explanation as to why Abyss wasn't arrested for trying to murder RVD? Abyss has walked around since, seemingly having taken out everyone's favourite guy (RVD), and yet people only seem to want to attack him one-on-one. They build Abyss up as this monster heel, then he gets beaten by Stevie fucking Richards. Great way to keep heat on Abyss.

And no concequences for attempted murder? So if Abyss did that to Hulk, or Eric, or Dixie that would be ok would it? People say TNA booking makes no sense – because it doesn't.

RVD – So he gets sliced open to within inches of his life, then will return to action fine 5 weeks later? C'mon.

FOURtune – I can't be the only one to see this can I? Flair, Styles, Kazarian, Williams, Morgan, Roode, Storm. 1,2,3,4,5...(hang on)...6,7. Seven? Now either I can't count, or this is another example of TNA being completely fucking stupid. Their name is spelled F-O-U-R-T-U-N-E, they come out, making a 4 finger sign, and their logo is based on two mirroring '4's. Seriously – this is stupid.

Fourtune – The name thing aside, how weak has fortune looked? This week alone two of their members lost cleanly. There's no heat on these guys because nobody believes they can win a match. Atleast with the Nexus angle (and don't think this hasn't pissed me off to some degree – because it has), they were built as a group of rookies who strength as a group was far greater than the sum of its parts. Barrett aside, they rarely win matches on their own, because they are rookies. FoUrtune is a group filled with experienced TNA guys, and yet they don't seem to want to make them look strong – at all. The only wins they get are against EV2.0 guys, when it comes to ANYONE ELSE on the TNA roster – they completely suck.

Or the simple fact that for some stupid reason they're booked as the heels. Despite the fact they get a face cheer every time they enter the impact zone.

EV2.0 – Is it possible to book a faction more badly than FoUrtune – YES! EV2.0 have literally disintergrated. Somehow they went from having an entire PPV full of ex-ECW talent, to having Dreamer, Sabu and Raven. So they have to bring in Brian Kendrick. Or the fact that Beer Money completely buried the FBI in a tag match.

Hogan/Sting/Nash/Jarrett/Joe – Please don't say “wait for the pay off”. I still don't have a clue what these lot are feuding about. And I've tried to find out. To the average viewer, is there any interest in this storyline at all? All we know is that it's about backstage WCW politics. And this is supposed to get me interested how?

Ending Kurt Angle's top 10 run – Briefly putting aside the retirement stip, this was a storyline that actually have a little bit of sense. But it's far too easy to leave it at logical. For some stupid reason half way through his run they cut it off to have a frigging Title tournament.

Putting a retirement stipulation on every Kurt Angle match – Please, this guy isn't going to retirement 50 minutes into a taped iMPACT show – so don't bill it like that. And if you are, MAKE IT A BIG FRIGGING DEAL. (Bored Tenay voice) “Oh look, it's angle against Hernandez, and if Angle loses he retires (end). It was totally pointless. He was never going to lose. They're building to a 3-way at BFG so that Anderson can win but Angle doesn't have to be pinned.

The Top 10 – Isn't the entire point of a top 10 ranking system to outline the line of succession to the title should for any reason the champion need to vacate his title. The first time a top 10 ranking system is actually needed, and we cut to a tournament? WHAT THE FUCK? The Top 10 is actually a good idea, but good idea's don't get far in TNA without Russo, Hogan and Bischoff dousing it in crap. They announce the top 10, then nobody reacts, at all.

Even though RVD is coming back he is not wrestling. If I am not mistaken he has to be able to defend the title. regardless of 30 days or not just because he is returning to TV doesn't mean he can wrestle. Hundreds of wrestlers have been apart of the show while not be able to compete because of legit or story line injuries. You then complain about Hardy and Angle having no build. I didn't realize those 2 needed to have a build up to match. It does have a purpose though. Unlike people like you have just have to cut down and over analyze a fucking scripted and fake show. You must be the ass hole that sits down and watches a movie and then tries to break down everything wrong with it even though it is fake.

You complain about Fourtune having more than 4 wrestlers. The Horseman did it and why should it matter. The concept is to have a group of wrestlers with a common goal. So lets get on TNA for having even more younger wrestlers in a group together trying to take their spots from older wrestlers in the company.

If you are honestly going to sit there and try to tell me or anyone that Abyss should be charged with attempted murder then why not we just fold up wrestling because it is all against the law. Anytime anyone from any company past or present has used a weapon, have used the hit someone with a car angle, broke into someones home and attacked them, stalked them or their family, attacked non wrestlers, kept holds on to long, attacked someone backstage, ect. This should all be considered against the law, attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon, vehicular man slaughter, because it isn't sanctioned by any organization or the state it is in. No reason to comment any further because you are not thinking before you type.

They used the top 8 for a tournament and the reason Abyss was not in the tournament is obvious. Why reward the guy for taking out the champ and then putting him in the title hunt. Wouldn't that then make it obvious Hogan and Bischoff are "They" since they allowed Abyss into the tournament. AJ Styles wan't in it because he dropped out of the top 8 because he lost.


Other than that there really is no reason for you to watch wrestling since you are so fucking anal about it. How have you enjoyed any wrestling show for the past 15 years if this is how you are. Both companies have shitty booking so if you can't deal with it move the fuck on and stop with the BS. Right now the WWE is running a PPV called Night of Champions. Guess what? Not every match on the card is a title match. Yet I don't see a god damn person up in arms about that when it is the most ridiculous thing ever.

 

[Bobby B]

Even though RVD is coming back he is not wrestling. If I am not mistaken he has to be able to defend the title. regardless of 30 days or not just because he is returning to TV doesn't mean he can wrestle. Hundreds of wrestlers have been apart of the show while not be able to compete because of legit or story line injuries.

True, lets see how it plays out. I'd be shocked if RVD doesn't make it to Bound for Glory in the ring.

You then complain about Hardy and Angle having no build. I didn't realize those 2 needed to have a build up to match. It does have a purpose though.

It doesn't. But it's why nobody buys TNA PPV's - because you take a dream match like Angle against Hardy - and throw it onto a random B PPV for no real reason. This match could've easily headlined Bound For Glory. Face vs Heel. Instead we have a triple threat with three faces. This build is everything you need to know at how bad the TNA writing is. You could've made Angle/Hardy a huge deal written correctly. But instead you throw them out there. It's all well and good them having a match of the year candidate at No Surrender (we'll ignore the crap ending), but if nobody is watching the show - then what's the point?

You complain about Fourtune having more than 4 wrestlers. The Horseman did it and why should it matter. The concept is to have a group of wrestlers with a common goal. So lets get on TNA for having even more younger wrestlers in a group together trying to take their spots from older wrestlers in the company.

But the Four Horseman never had more than 4 wrestlers. Managers and Valets are fine - they always only had 4 active talents. If you want to add Williams and Morgan to the mix - call them "FORTUNE". Sure, it sounds like the name for a rather low rent boy-band. But it isn't bad. Don't have them come out with the 4 finger sign, a mirrored '4' as a logo and with a name FOURtune.

I quite like the faction. They're just being booked (1) Badly (they loose every practically every singles match they've ever been aside from matches against EV2.0) and (2) in a really shitty feud. The idea of Fortune as a stable I don't mind - but TNA don't seem to having basic booking intelligence to make them look even remotely strong. Take this week. Doug Williams randomly loses his title in a throw away match, and Matt Morgan (who Flair has described as "The Enforcer" and "The Insurance Policy") lost to Brian frigging Kendrick in another throw away match. Basic booking says you book your heel faction strong, or atleast cowardly. Right now, Fortune isn't either.

If you are honestly going to sit there and try to tell me or anyone that Abyss should be charged with attempted murder then why not we just fold up wrestling because it is all against the law. Anytime anyone from any company past or present has used a weapon, have used the hit someone with a car angle, broke into someones home and attacked them, stalked them or their family, attacked non wrestlers, kept holds on to long, attacked someone backstage, ect. This should all be considered against the law, attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon, vehicular man slaughter, because it isn't sanctioned by any organization or the state it is in. No reason to comment any further because you are not thinking before you type.

Well true, the murder thing was a little extreme. But if your going to have TNA management (I'm not sure if the commentators attributed the decision to anyone specifically during the match) say that if anyone interferes in the FBI vs BM match, that they're fired, but not fire someone for essentially trying to murder someone.

In any type of official legit combat, there is a certain threshold where things are acceptable inside the arena of combat where they wouldn't be in average human life. In UFC it's legitimate to punch and kick people until they can't get up any longer. You couldn't do that on the street.

In the same way in wrestling it's acceptable (if you look at it literally) to have a No Disqualification match where "anything goes" within reason. But if a wrestler came out there and shot his opponent with a sawn off shotgun, then that goes beyond the boundaries of what is acceptable and what a wrestler signed up for.

I wouldn't mind so much if TNA hadn't used the Police in segments before. But if you apply it to one storyline, you can't then ignore it in the other.

But putting that part aside, don't threaten a member of Fortune with firing for interfering in match, but then let go somebody trying to kill someone. You need to be consistent - if anything goes, then I could take that.

They used the top 8 for a tournament and the reason Abyss was not in the tournament is obvious. Why reward the guy for taking out the champ and then putting him in the title hunt. Wouldn't that then make it obvious Hogan and Bischoff are "They" since they allowed Abyss into the tournament. AJ Styles wan't in it because he dropped out of the top 8 because he lost.

But then why reward Matt Morgan or Doug Williams (who were part of the EV2.0 beatdown) with a spot in the match?

Ok, we're talking economies of scale. But if your going to ban Abyss from the tournament, then at the very least acknowledge that fact. And then try to explain why you can ban a guy from a tournament for trying to kill someone, but still employ them. What would it take for someone to actually get fired?

Other than that there really is no reason for you to watch wrestling since you are so fucking anal about it. How have you enjoyed any wrestling show for the past 15 years if this is how you are.

Enjoy quite a lot of wrestling. I get frustrated at times with WWE - because as a 19 year old male they do - on semi-regularly with things they do and things the book. But if you look beyond that there is some real good stuff going on there.

Right now the WWE is running a PPV called Night of Champions. Guess what? Not every match on the card is a title match. Yet I don't see a god damn person up in arms about that when it is the most ridiculous thing ever.

"Most ridiculous thing ever". Hmm, a PPV called Night Of Champions where "ALL" (very important) "All titles will be defended". They never said "only" titles will be defended. As for the logic behind it, it's rather simple. Because of the unification match, they thought that six matches wouldn't be enough for the card to give people a full three hour show, so they threw CM Punk vs Big Show in there. Am I happy with this? Not really. But it does make sense. I can't say the same for 95% of TNA's booking decisions.

 

[K4P-Unleashed]

WHAT THE !%@£ ?

"TNA could book the best storyline anyone has seen in years" - well if they can they're choosing not to.

I'll directly to my post made above (Post Number #29) baring the KO's feud (which although I'm not enthralled by, it's ok television) I've outlined serious booking flaws with every single feud going on right now.

I don't think it's the case that TNA is the IWC's whipping boy. I think it's the other way around. When TNA regularly book crap storylines, TNA fanboys simply say "the IWC hate TNA - the storylines are fine" when they're not.

Eric Bischoff leads the line "Constructive Criticism is fine, but any smarks will be blocked from the page" (referring to his facebook page), i.e. any that agrees with him are fine, but those that don't are simply referred to as "smarks".

You can find holes in WWE storylines, but you can drive tanks through holes in TNA storylines. Simply saying "The IWC hate TNA" isn't an excuse. Go back to my post earlier, I've picked apart each storyline going on right now.

That's fine dude, but you have to understand, even if TNA's storylines have flaws, I'm not that picky. As long as I get what I want out of a wrestling program, that being entertainment, I'm happy. WWE's storylines certainly don't have as many technical flaws, but I fall asleep while watching RAW. That's the difference between you and I (apparently). I enjoy TNA and am able to look past the storyline errors because I love the program while you see the mistakes as something that makes TNA harder to watch.

To me, this one comes down to personal preference.

I do, however, respect your opinion. And yes, TNA does look ridiculously dumb sometimes, but it seems like the criticism is always handed down to TNA. It's very possible that sometimes they deserve it. Personally, I don't see it that way.

 

[Bobby B]

That's fine dude, but you have to understand, even if TNA's storylines have flaws, I'm not that picky. As long as I get what I want out of a wrestling program, that being entertainment, I'm happy. WWE's storylines certainly don't have as many technical flaws, but I fall asleep while watching RAW. That's the difference between you and I (apparently). I enjoy TNA and am able to look past the storyline errors because I love the program while you see the mistakes as something that makes TNA harder to watch.

To me, this one comes down to personal preference.

I do, however, respect your opinion. And yes, TNA does look ridiculously dumb sometimes, but it seems like the criticism is always handed down to TNA. It's very possible that sometimes they deserve it. Personally, I don't see it that way.

I think many people must be like you. The in ring product is at times very good, but the storylines are plain awful.

I do sometimes wonder whether TNA would be better off just running 2 hours of wrestling. The ratings wouldn't change a bit. It's going to be the same 1.5 million people watching week in, week out. If booking doesn't change, neither will that number.

 

[flairisoverated]

TNA will never change as long as WCW (i.e. hogan and bischoff) are running the company. Dixie is the Ted Turner of the wrestling today. She has no clue what is successful, but has money to support it and hire people she saw did a good job 10 years ago to run it. I have some faith in TNA to be able to pull something off, but they need to step out of their comfort zone or rather impact zone and grow some balls. You have to spend money to make money and TNA needs to set higher standards for themselves. If I jump into a freezing cold pool my first instinct is to jump out, but if I stay in eventually my body will get used to the cold. TNA jumps into the pool, but always runs away before giving there body (storylines) a chance to truly develop and mature.

 

[Dizzy]

Abyssamania, the MCMGs not getting a title run for 3 years, Samoa Joe's kidnapping, The unexplained Deception angle, Hardcore Justice, Orlando Jordan and pushing Rob Terry. And that's off the top of my head.

TNA's booking gets shit on because they do a lot of illogical angles and rapidly change direction. Not a new criticism either, fans were chanting "Fire Russo" years ago.

Complaining about an angle that's not even finished yet?

Because a president of a company is gonna listen to a bunch of fans on making a business decision.

See why nobody in wrestling listens to you smarks? Your embarrassing. There is no doubt flaws in TNA but come on. Fans go overboard with their reasons to hate.

TNA's book sucks. They aren't successful but there the 2nd largest promotion in wrestling, 8 years in the business, seen in 150 countries. They signed superstars which are generating merchandise and ticket sales for Live Events which adds up in revenue. They are doing something right to remain stable and successful. The only people that are going to nit pick and booking and shit that regular fans don't see is Internet smarks. Period.

They do alot of stupid things (Abyssamania, Joe's kidnapping, etc) but it doesn't effect a damn thing when it comes to the stuff that matters.

 

[schaeffershawn]

Dizzy if Dixie does not listen to the fans, than who pray tell should she be listening to? The fans buy the shirts, PPV's and video games. The fans are those who will buy tickets when TNA tours. The reason TNA has not improved there ratings, buy rates, merchandise sales, ticket sales is because they are not creating new fans.

Being second largest out of only two national companies is like being the second best looking out of two it does not matter. New Japan and All Japan are both bigger, and they are not even seen in America. Their live shows do virtually no business which is why they cannot afford to travel the way the WWE does. All of their tapings and most PPV's come from the Impact zone which is free so no ticket sales there. Stable yes successful hardly. They are losing money hand over fist and teh fact is as their ratings have not increased Spike will not give them as much when their contract is up to keep the product airing. As I know you are slow I will spell that out for you. TNA sales SPIKE Impact. SPIKE no want to pay as much if ratings don't improve. Spike says hey were going to give you only this much now. Spike did same thing with RAW a few years ago. TNA say that sucks we look for new home. Spike says ok. TNA dies either way, because less money means what little money they have coming in is less or nonexistent because companies do not want wrestling on their tv stations now days.

And bad booking does matter because they are not attracting new fans with bad booking which means they are not growing. If they are not growing they will not begin to even make money or increase ratings and thus as spelled out in language so simple even a caveman can do it TNA dies a slow painful and unwatchable death, much like their programing.

 

[Dizzy]

It doesn't. But it's why nobody buys TNA PPV's - because you take a dream match like Angle against Hardy - and throw it onto a random B PPV for no real reason. This match could've easily headlined Bound For Glory. Face vs Heel. Instead we have a triple threat with three faces. This build is everything you need to know at how bad the TNA writing is. You could've made Angle/Hardy a huge deal written correctly. But instead you throw them out there. It's all well and good them having a match of the year candidate at No Surrender (we'll ignore the crap ending), but if nobody is watching the show - then what's the point?

Face vs. Heel? Angle and Hardy are BOTH faces. TNA is really going to make us a hate a guy that is trying to win a title or retire right? Come on now.

The point is if nobody is watching, they will realize they missed out on a good PPV and order the repeat or watch the next PPV. And how is Hardy vs. Angle any different to Jeff winning it at a B PPV like Armageddon?

Also, how is Cena vs. Orton vs. Triple H at Wrestlemania any different to the match set up at Bound For Glory? All three men were extremely over and despite the fact Orton was billed as a heel, he still got cheers like no other.

Dizzy if Dixie does not listen to the fans, than who pray tell should she be listening to? The fans buy the shirts, PPV's and video games. The fans are those who will buy tickets when TNA tours. The reason TNA has not improved there ratings, buy rates, merchandise sales, ticket sales is because they are not creating new fans.

O Rly?

Last time I checked, their merchandise, ticket sales have improved tremendously. Nice try though. Ratings haven't gone up since they are on SPIKE TV. TNA is the highest rated program on Spike and if they stay on there it will stay that way. UFC and TNA draw the same ratings.

So, TNA is not creating "new" fans but somehow they have been selling out Live Events alot more than in the past. Hmmm.....

You really don't know the difference between an actual fan vs. a Internet fan. Internet fans are the idiots that think they know it all, and Russo should be fired. Let's all forget the fact Vince Russo booked and created Beer Money, The Beautiful People, The Pope's push, Desmond Wolfe/Angle feud, Anderson/ Angle feud.

And I can continue on with the things that he has done to help the company create it's own popular names. Why should I listen to a bunch of internet fans if I'm running a company?

 

[schaeffershawn]

One I never said Russo should be fired. Two being the highest rated show that relies on almost zero original programing is nothing to brag about. Their ratings have been a 1 which means about 1,000,000 viewers per week. Spike had 3.5 times more with Raw so yes just like with Raw eventually they will say we do not want to pay as much for this if you are not growing. If there live shows were growing and based on the one I saw they are not they would tour more. Im guessing based on having to give tickets away to their live shows, yes I got mine for free just walking around the arena they are not making enough to even cover the boys pay for the event, which means bid daddy Bob is footing the bill. Then lets look were they are touring. The Hamerstien ballroom. That compaed to MSG, the Stapels Center, the Wachovia Center or any other real arena that holds more then 5,000. I have seen comedy shows that sell out the Hamerstien not exactly a real accomplishment, I mean unless you are are one of those people who believes it is an accomplishment to turn thirty. Comparing TNA to the Ultimate fighter is apples and pears. Here is why The UFC, actually does make money on PPV's and actually gets media attention.

While all of the angels you have mentioned have been good lets look at the bad. Ink Inc. Joe's kidnapping, Tara, The main event mafia and front line, Keeping the tag titles off the MCMG for three years, but allowing bull shit teams like team 3'd, Scott Stiener and Booker T and the Band to hold them, the World elite, the destruction of the x-division and the knockouts division, the Rob Terry push, the Eric Young push, suicide, the poor booking of Christopher Daniels, the poor handling of Matt Morgan, splitting up 3 live cru, splitting up LAX, making Alex Shelly were a turkey costume. And the list could go on and on and on because without an objective filter, Russo is just an average creative guy at best. And despite all of the good here is the reality. Ratings have not improved and would be exactly the same if it was just two hours of in ring matches. Buy rates are in the toilet. Merchandise which you defend is not selling. I have yet to see one TNA shirt out in public but see Cena shirts everywhere I go. The best example being their video game which was a dud, but every year people will buy the new smackdown vs raw game. Add in the live events which do not happen often enough, have poor production value and are in the crappiest of "arenas."

 

[Phenomenal]

Wrestling booking has always sucked you morons. It's fake, get over it. Get a life. People didnt have forums go to during the 90's to express their feelings unlike these days. Trust me, the beginning of Attitide era wasn't all that, it sucked when Austin wasn't on T.V. WCW was awsome because of the rowdy crowds.

I don't care about TNA booking because I choose to have a life I just watch it for the awesome wrestling and sick spots/moves. And I dont give a shit about logic in wrestling because if I wanted to learn logic then I would watch Islam and science.

People on the internet seriously need to think about their future prospects and wre not wrestling booking.

 

[schaeffershawn]

Wrestling booking has always sucked you morons. It's fake, get over it. Get a life. People didnt have forums go to during the 90's to express their feelings unlike these days. Trust me, the beginning of Attitide era wasn't all that, it sucked when Austin wasn't on T.V. WCW was awsome because of the rowdy crowds.

I don't care about TNA booking because I choose to have a life I just watch it for the awesome wrestling and sick spots/moves. And I dont give a shit about logic in wrestling because if I wanted to learn logic then I would watch Islam and science.

People on the internet seriously need to think about their future prospects and wre not wrestling booking.

Islam is actually the least logical of religions but whatever.

If you can enjoy TNA despite piss poor booking and insulting story lines bullies for you but the majority of the people cannot. This is why TNA is not attracting a wider audience and not a credible number two company. I in fact do have a life which is why I do not watch Impact, I watch the clips on youtube so I can speed through the boring and unwatchable.