TNA - The Iceberg for Professional Wrestlers

[Deus1138]

Eskimos don't have Social Security. They don't have Assisted Care Facilities. They don't have Nursing Homes. When you're Eskimo, you have to contribute to the group. When you get old, and can no longer contribute to the group, they put you on an iceberg, and push you out to sea, so you will no longer be a burden on the rest of the group.

TNA is the iceberg for professional wrestlers. Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Jeff Hardy, Kurt Angle. Why are Hogan and Flair still active? They both should have tons of money to retire on by now. But no. Their carelessness and foolishness has left them both almost broke. Neither one of them could pass a physical to be a firefighter or even a warehouse worker. Why are they still wrestling? Sure, Hardy and Angle aren't old and crippled like Hogan and Flair, but they both have so much baggage and bring so much trouble with them, they're pretty much useless. When 90% of your time is dedicated to damage control for their latest antics, what value are they to your product?

Maybe I was wrong. Maybe TNA isn't like the iceberg for old, useless eskimos. Maybe they're more like "The Island of Misfit Toys." TNA needs to make some tough decisions about who they employ, or they won't be employing anyone much longer.

 

[jaceynightheat]

I'm sorry that them making money makes you so angry. Wrestlers are real people & need to pay bills too. Insane, I know! I doubt Hulk Hogan & Ric Flair are useless to Sports Entertainment. Could they be used better? Probably. Is WWE horrible because it features Jerry Lawler, Michael Cole, Triple H?

 

[gregp85]

Ok well once again people are sooo quick to judge a company. We all know that TNA hasn't made the best choices. But at the same point TNA has made progress. It may be like taking 4 steps forward and 3 back but they still end up being one step ahead. TNA has a million viewers during impact so most of those fans are fans who want to see name brand wrestlers. They want big names. However when you have the WWE as your competition do you realize how hard it is to get those types of wrestlers. So what happens is they get the guys who are on their way out of the business or disgruntled guys who think they are bigger than they really are. I honestly think sooner or later hopefully sooner they will be able to find the balance between using these old BIG NAMES and up and coming homegrown talent. But TNA has the potential its a very young company. And we need companies like them to at least make WWE stay a lil more focused. I do agree that they made a mistake using hogan the way they have. I mean I could have seen him as a manager who is trying to train some young guy he believes in. However, I do think Flair leading fourtune was pretty good although they need to learn how to pull the reigns on him also. But I dont get how people cant see the potential of this company if they had a better creative team. I mean Mr.Anderson, Pope, Wolfe, Styles, Beer money, MCMG, and Morgan. They all have talent and I feel they could build a company. Its all up to the writers and creative teams. They are the ones who need to go. I mean WCW at points had some HORRIBLE wrestlers but the writers were the ones keeping it alive. TNA can make it...

 

[CleverName51]

Interesting metaphor, but I'm gonna go with a different one.

But first: For the record, I'm a huge WWE Fan who doesn't watch TNA and instead gets my knowledge of TNA from reading these forums and the articles on this site. I read, but rarely post on TNA because I feel like I'm not always qualified to do so. However, the idea in this article isn't about in-ring TNA stuff, but a business philosophy so I'm comfortable posting on it.

Ok: now my new metaphor- TNA is the KHL as the WWE is the NHL

WWE is the NHL is that both get the most viewers and generate the most hype in their art. The ratings and PPV buys show more people watch WWE than TNA (I'm not arguing quality of promotion, just a fact on how many people WATCH the promotion)

The KHL is the Russian league. It's made up of many players not good enough (Marcel Hossa, Stefan Ruzicka, Jaromir Jagr- the Kurt Angle of the KHL) or with too many personal issues (Alex Yashin, Nikolay Zherdev-who bounced back to the NHL this year, but will be back in Russia next season, Robert Esche-alcohol/spousal abuse...)

Players in the Russian league get pay reasonably on par with the NHL but they don't get the NHL lifestyle...just like TNA guys get a reasonable pay sort of on par with the NHL, but TNA guys don't have the WWE lifestyle...to my knowledge AJ Styles hasn't gone off and done movies like John Cena or HHH....and that's fine

The question is: what does TNA want?

If TNA is content where they are at, as the number 2 company in wrestling in terms of revenue/exposure (again, NOT JUDGING QUALITY OF PRODUCT, JUST ECONOMICS) then they're just fine with what they're doing right now (unless Jeff Hardy works high again and kills someone leading to a lawsuit, then all bets are off)

If TNA really wants to make more money and draw bigger audiences than the WWE, then yes, they need to do something...it's like a sports team with aging stars that can't win anymore, they need to rebuild...how do you do that? you shed overpriced contracts in favor of young kids with bright futures...that means
Fire Hogan, Fire Flair, Fire Jeff Hardy AND his issues....

bring in young guns like AJ Styles, Chris Daniels (the only part of TNA I ever REALLY enjoyed), and raid ROH/Japan/Mexico for talents in their early 20s...then MARKET THESE GUYS

Find a way to get AJ Styles/other home grown talents onto a tv show...have him guest star on a show, have SpikeTV cross promote...put TNA references onto Spike shows like MANswers and 1000 Ways to Die...if Mickie James singing career keeps moving along...have her PLUG TNA on mainstream shows like Today or Good Morning America...she can perform a song or two...AND say "hey, if you want to see more of me, TUNE IN TO TNA iMPACT on THURSDAY!"

I can't really say much about the rest of the roster, I don't know what other hobbies/interests the rest has..but the idea is there.


Long story short, TNA needs to pick what future it wants...and I just outlined the 2 options

 

[DJ_Bailey_92]

Eskimos don't have Social Security. They don't have Assisted Care Facilities. They don't have Nursing Homes. When you're Eskimo, you have to contribute to the group. When you get old, and can no longer contribute to the group, they put you on an iceberg, and push you out to sea, so you will no longer be a burden on the rest of the group.

TNA is the iceberg for professional wrestlers. Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Jeff Hardy, Kurt Angle. Why are Hogan and Flair still active? They both should have tons of money to retire on by now. But no. Their carelessness and foolishness has left them both almost broke. Neither one of them could pass a physical to be a firefighter or even a warehouse worker. Why are they still wrestling? Sure, Hardy and Angle aren't old and crippled like Hogan and Flair, but they both have so much baggage and bring so much trouble with them, they're pretty much useless. When 90% of your time is dedicated to damage control for their latest antics, what value are they to your product?

Maybe I was wrong. Maybe TNA isn't like the iceberg for old, useless eskimos. Maybe they're more like "The Island of Misfit Toys." TNA needs to make some tough decisions about who they employ, or they won't be employing anyone much longer.

i agree with alot of what ur saying but i cant believe u actually grouped Hardy n Angle together..... r u serious Angle made 1 bad discison and is otherwise 1 of the few great things about TNA. Hardy is a drug addict who doesnt care about anything except where his next hit comes from.

 

[dman1373]

pretend that going to america is like being on a big main stream money making company. That would then make tna the titanic. Everyone thought that it would be a easy and nice place to go to get to america. Some people like flair, hogan, and hardy have been there(with wwe.) Now the only problem is the captain (dixie carter) is going thru a area that has a ton of icebergs at twice the speed(because she is mentally handicapped.) And the designer of the boat(russo) made a boat that looks good, but it is made out of cheap shit(meaning he writes garbage and calls it a wrestling show.) Now when they hit the iceberg (reality), the captain (dixie) does not know what to do. So she just sits back and lets everyone try to do what ever they can to survive. Now this is where tna is at right now. Its already doomed, but the question is who is going to get on the lifeboat and get a ride on the wwe to america. Flair and hogan will be able to because they are so rich(figuratively) that they can buy(politic) their way on the life boats. But alot of the younger stars will go down with the ship.

And their heart will go on and on. do do do do do do do do.

 

[Iversen]

i agree with alot of what ur saying but i cant believe u actually grouped Hardy n Angle together..... r u serious Angle made 1 bad discison and is otherwise 1 of the few great things about TNA. Hardy is a drug addict who doesnt care about anything except where his next hit comes from.

It's not the first time recently that Angle has found himself in bother outside the ring. There was that whole thing with his girlfriend who was also in TNA can't remember her name, plus he's been arrested for drink driving before.

On topic of the thread I kind of feel sorry for TNA. These guys are looking for a last pay check and it's kind of sad that they don't seem to be putting their A game into it. A lot of it just seems like these guys trundle around in 1st gear and are waiting for something to happen rather than them stepping up to the plate and actually using there years of experience to make TNA a good company.

 

[He's Phenomenal]

The fact of the matter is, people (myself included) still enjoy seeing legends like Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair on their TV. And as long as people still want to see these guys, why should they turn down a pay cheque? I don't even know why Kurt Angle has been mentioned in the OP. He's still one of (if not the) best wrestlers on the planet. Why in the World would a wrestling company not want him? So he got arrested, footballers in England are constantly getting arrested for driving offenses, but if they get it done on the pitch, the clubs don't cut all ties with them. I don't even know what a wrestlers (or any sportsman for that matter) private life has to do with any fan anyway. As long as they get it done in the ring and are entertaining, I couldn't care less what they do in their own time.

 

[achromat666]

Eskimos don't have Social Security. They don't have Assisted Care Facilities. They don't have Nursing Homes. When you're Eskimo, you have to contribute to the group. When you get old, and can no longer contribute to the group, they put you on an iceberg, and push you out to sea, so you will no longer be a burden on the rest of the group.

TNA is the iceberg for professional wrestlers. Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Jeff Hardy, Kurt Angle. Why are Hogan and Flair still active? They both should have tons of money to retire on by now. But no. Their carelessness and foolishness has left them both almost broke. Neither one of them could pass a physical to be a firefighter or even a warehouse worker. Why are they still wrestling? Sure, Hardy and Angle aren't old and crippled like Hogan and Flair, but they both have so much baggage and bring so much trouble with them, they're pretty much useless. When 90% of your time is dedicated to damage control for their latest antics, what value are they to your product?

Maybe I was wrong. Maybe TNA isn't like the iceberg for old, useless eskimos. Maybe they're more like "The Island of Misfit Toys." TNA needs to make some tough decisions about who they employ, or they won't be employing anyone much longer.

With the anger over recent TNA evens and the general opinion many may have about the direction of the company I think we're missing something in a thread like this.

I don't care to see Hogan and Flair dominate so much TV time now, but there are people as old and older then both still working in the business and being a positive influence. Ricky Steamboat, JJ Dillon, Tony Garea, Dusty Rhodes, are all a benefit to the WWE in a capacity that doesn't require screen time but keeps money in their pocket. So as I've mentioned in the past they could be working and still be a benefit without constantly overshadowing the rest of the roster. Guys in the locker could use help with promos, with the subtleties of telling a story in the ring, or a number of other things including ambassadorship and the such that can help the company in such a way that the promotion can still use their skill and talent. It doesn't mean they can't appear on TV, just not as a major part of every damn show.

So them merely being employed by a company (WWE, TNA, etc) Is in my mind not the true point of contention. It's the capacity. Egos may complicate matters for those running things, but that is the responsibility of the company to handle.

As for Hardy and Angle, While Hardy's actions were irresponsible and Angle's was bad judgment to say the least they're not the only talent that TNA has gathered from elsewhere, and the results aren't exactly identical in other cases. Most of the rest can still put on a decent show, don't saddle the company with negative publicity and seem to interested in helping TNA grow, or at least to grow themselves in the company.

Do I think they need to grab everyone WWE lets go of? No, but getting some talent isn't a horrible thing and some have been a benefit (Christian, Mr. Anderson, Raven, and Angle despite recent issues) to help the show.

Even if Jarrett and Russo weren't a part of TNA getting guys like Hogan and Flair may be tempting for name recognition alone, though once again having them dominate the show is not the best course of action. And regardless of their names should be held accountable if they are not helping the company, which is yet another hotly debated issue.

But a blank statement on the company based on the actions of 4 performers is not fair to criticize all decisions made on getting talent. Jeff was a risk to be sure, and Angle initial run in TNA was stellar. Hogan and Flair can be useful, but once again not as the mouthpieces of the company. No one else can develop that way.

 

[Iversen]

The fact of the matter is, people (myself included) still enjoy seeing legends like Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair on their TV. And as long as people still want to see these guys, why should they turn down a pay cheque? I don't even know why Kurt Angle has been mentioned in the OP. He's still one of (if not the) best wrestlers on the planet. Why in the World would a wrestling company not want him? So he got arrested, footballers in England are constantly getting arrested for driving offenses, but if they get it done on the pitch, the clubs don't cut all ties with them. I don't even know what a wrestlers (or any sportsman for that matter) private life has to do with any fan anyway. As long as they get it done in the ring and are entertaining, I couldn't care less what they do in their own time.

The difference is that I don't think it's any real secret that Kurt has quite a dysfunctional life outside the ring. If he's slowly killing himself we shouldn't be wanting him to continue wrestling we should want him to get help. Kurt Angles life is more important than my entertainment. We don't want another wrestler dying young.

In terms of wanting to see Hogan and Flair on our TVs I have no problem with them being on our TVs but they shouldn't be dominating the story lines the way they are. Having them be central to the program is an incredibly short term plan and TNA needs a long term plan.

 

[He's Phenomenal]

The difference is that I don't think it's any real secret that Kurt has quite a dysfunctional life outside the ring. If he's slowly killing himself we shouldn't be wanting him to continue wrestling we should want him to get help. Kurt Angles life is more important than my entertainment. We don't want another wrestler dying young.

I can definately see where you're coming from, in that no one wants to see Kurt Angle head for an early grave. But at the end of the day Angles health (like anyone elses) is his own (their) responsibility. I dabble in the odd illegal substance and if anything were to go wrong, my friends and family would only have me to blame. No one forces you to drink, smoke or take anything else: its your own choice. If Kurt Angle thinks he's got a problem and needs help, I'm sure TNA will give him all the help he needs.

 

[Brian in Austin]

Eskimos don't have Social Security. They don't have Assisted Care Facilities. They don't have Nursing Homes. When you're Eskimo, you have to contribute to the group. When you get old, and can no longer contribute to the group, they put you on an iceberg, and push you out to sea, so you will no longer be a burden on the rest of the group.

TNA is the iceberg for professional wrestlers. Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Jeff Hardy, Kurt Angle. Why are Hogan and Flair still active? They both should have tons of money to retire on by now. But no. Their carelessness and foolishness has left them both almost broke. Neither one of them could pass a physical to be a firefighter or even a warehouse worker. Why are they still wrestling? Sure, Hardy and Angle aren't old and crippled like Hogan and Flair, but they both have so much baggage and bring so much trouble with them, they're pretty much useless. When 90% of your time is dedicated to damage control for their latest antics, what value are they to your product?

Maybe I was wrong. Maybe TNA isn't like the iceberg for old, useless eskimos. Maybe they're more like "The Island of Misfit Toys." TNA needs to make some tough decisions about who they employ, or they won't be employing anyone much longer.

I just said the same thing (well last night anyway) in another thread. TNA is a horribly run company. Yes, it is difficult to run a business. No, it's not difficult to fire employees who do drugs and are alcoholics, don't work, or don't pay their bar tabs and mooch the money off of other employees. In fact, it might be the easiest thing to do in running a business. Fire employees who violate company policy. Oh wait.....it doesn't appear that TNA actually HAS any company policies. My bad!


At any rate, TNA, and those running it, are reaping what they've sown. When you lie with pigs, you get dirty. It's their own fault and none of it can be blamed on the IWC, the media, or the fans.

 

[Jason Scene]

I'm not that interested in thrashing TNA in this thread, as I do it enough, although I give them props too. But let me just point something out, in defense of Ric Flair.

Ric Flair pays his ex-wives, combined together, over $300,00 a year in alamony checks. That is his biggest expense.

He needs a job, he can't not work. As well as that, the guy has a passion for wrestling, both in and out of the ring. He's a legend, so fucking respect the guy and admire him for still doing it.

As long as TNA don't give Ric Flair a Championship, and allow him to continue managing and occasionallly wrestling, please kindly STFU about Ric Flair.

 

[Brian in Austin]

I'm not that interested in thrashing TNA in this thread, as I do it enough, although I give them props too. But let me just point something out, in defense of Ric Flair.

Ric Flair pays his ex-wives, combined together, over $300,00 a year in alamony checks. That is his biggest expense.

He needs a job, he can't not work. As well as that, the guy has a passion for wrestling, both in and out of the ring. He's a legend, so fucking respect the guy and admire him for still doing it.

As long as TNA don't give Ric Flair a Championship, and allow him to continue managing and occasionallly wrestling, please kindly STFU about Ric Flair.

I once met Ric Flair in an airport in Atlanta. Nice guy. Seems genuinely (or at the time; this was back in the day with the long blond hair, expensive suits, etc.) humbled by the fans. But the fact is he's disgraced his legacy by doing some of the ridiculous things he's done in and out of the ring. Getting his clothes torn off on tv by Jay Lethal? Jay Lethal? Getting into these bloody matches (blading himself repeatedly) just for the 'pop' it allegedly gets at ringside and on tv, the hystrionics in the ring where he looks like he might actually have an on-air heart attack? The rumors of his not paying his bar tabs and borrowing money from other wrestlers? It's horrible to watch him go down in flames like this when he once was considered wrestling royalty.

 

[Jason Scene]

I once met Ric Flair in an airport in Atlanta. Nice guy. Seems genuinely (or at the time; this was back in the day with the long blond hair, expensive suits, etc.) humbled by the fans. But the fact is he's disgraced his legacy by doing some of the ridiculous things he's done in and out of the ring. Getting his clothes torn off on tv by Jay Lethal? Jay Lethal? Getting into these bloody matches (blading himself repeatedly) just for the 'pop' it allegedly gets at ringside and on tv, the hystrionics in the ring where he looks like he might actually have an on-air heart attack? The rumors of his not paying his bar tabs and borrowing money from other wrestlers? It's horrible to watch him go down in flames like this when he once was considered wrestling royalty.

Ric Flair damaged his legacy by putting over a young guy like Jay Lethal? No, he didn't, he enhanced his reputation by doing that. He isn't Hulk Hogan, Hulk Hogan walked out of an arena back in WCW because Eric Bischoff wanted him to lose to someone younger. Ric Flair used his name, took a young guy with potential like Jay Lethal and got Jay into the limelight for a little bit.

Nothing wrong with that, doesn't damage Ric Flair at all.

Ric Flair wrestled 12 times in 2010. 12! If he wants to blade, let him do it. I guess Vince McMahon ruined his legacy by blading in his matches with Hulk Hogan and Shawn Michaels? No, he didn't. Blading hardly ruins anybodies career, Ric is probably the best bleeder of all-time, go look at the thread dedicated to that topic and you'll see Ric's name a hell of a lot more than you will on any thread talking about how people have "disgraced their legacies."

And you mean "hysterics" in the ring, I assume? Yeah, well hes been doing that since the 1970's, no point in stopping now, is there? No, because you can't ruin your legacy by throwing your jacket on the mat and hitting a Kneedrop on it. It's Ric shtick, and its worked for him thus far.

Like I said, you want to try and pay $300,000 dollars a year to your three ex-wives? Hell that is only the tip of what he pays them. He has to support them as well. He asked for some money, got drunk, had a fit, got kicked off the tour, got brought back on and then got suspended.

Again, nobody cares. Did he come to the ring drunk like someone we know? No, he didn't.

Saying Ric Flair has gone down in "flames" is an over-exaggeration to the highest. Dude hasn't even caught fire yet. He's as respcted now as he was back in the 80's. Ric Flair's robe, that he wore at his last Wrestlemania is hanging in the Muesum of American History in Washington for fuck sake.

And his legacy, name or career has gone down in flames? Dude, that's laughable.

 

[shattered dreams]

So many people ask me about Ric, and whether his return bothers me. I always say, ‘Absolutely not.’ One match at Wrestlemania XXIV – that moment – was truly 100 percent real to me. And it was real to him. And that’s never going to change. I want Ric to be happy. And to be perfectly honest, I know he’s happiest when he’s in the ring. That moment will always be very special to me.

So if HBK does not have a problem with it why do some many cellar dwellers? The bold part is the most important. I am so sick of these johnny come latelys thinking they know the whole story on Flair. You people could not have a more screwy version of what Flair is doing. Anyone that thinks Ric Flair actually wanted to retire doesn't know half as much about him as they claim to. Why should Flair give a fuck that you do not want him to perform? Or to "hurt" his legacy. Maybe when you have a legacy you can order it around. Until then get over yourself.

 

[Brian in Austin]

Ric Flair damaged his legacy by putting over a young guy like Jay Lethal? No, he didn't, he enhanced his reputation by doing that. He isn't Hulk Hogan, Hulk Hogan walked out of an arena back in WCW because Eric Bischoff wanted him to lose to someone younger. Ric Flair used his name, took a young guy with potential like Jay Lethal and got Jay into the limelight for a little bit.

Nothing wrong with that, doesn't damage Ric Flair at all.

Ric Flair wrestled 12 times in 2010. 12! If he wants to blade, let him do it. I guess Vince McMahon ruined his legacy by blading in his matches with Hulk Hogan and Shawn Michaels? No, he didn't. Blading hardly ruins anybodies career, Ric is probably the best bleeder of all-time, go look at the thread dedicated to that topic and you'll see Ric's name a hell of a lot more than you will on any thread talking about how people have "disgraced their legacies."

And you mean "hysterics" in the ring, I assume? Yeah, well hes been doing that since the 1970's, no point in stopping now, is there? No, because you can't ruin your legacy by throwing your jacket on the mat and hitting a Kneedrop on it. It's Ric shtick, and its worked for him thus far.

Like I said, you want to try and pay $300,000 dollars a year to your three ex-wives? Hell that is only the tip of what he pays them. He has to support them as well. He asked for some money, got drunk, had a fit, got kicked off the tour, got brought back on and then got suspended.

Again, nobody cares. Did he come to the ring drunk like someone we know? No, he didn't.

Saying Ric Flair has gone down in "flames" is an over-exaggeration to the highest. Dude hasn't even caught fire yet. He's as respcted now as he was back in the 80's. Ric Flair's robe, that he wore at his last Wrestlemania is hanging in the Muesum of American History in Washington for fuck sake.

And his legacy, name or career has gone down in flames? Dude, that's laughable.

I'm not speaking of his efforts to put over Jay Lethal, (though it could certainly be argued that in the big picture that it meant little to nothing in advancing the career of Jay Lethal.) but rather what he was willing to do in order to put Lethal over. It is my belief that his being willing to have his clothing ripped off literally down to his briefs shows us how far he has fallen as a person in and out of the ring. To that end, it is truly sad that he's unable to make marriage work and that it's now affecting what he has to be willing to endure in the ring in order to pay these ladies and to care for his children and himself. I blame all of this on him as his inability to have any control over his personal life has now bled over into his professional life. It's a sad thing to watch for a man who was once seen as the standard in this business.

 

[Jason Scene]

I'm not speaking of his efforts to put over Jay Lethal, (though it could certainly be argued that in the big picture that it meant little to nothing in advancing the career of Jay Lethal.) but rather what he was willing to do in order to put Lethal over. It is my belief that his being willing to have his clothing ripped off literally down to his briefs shows us how far he has fallen as a person in and out of the ring. To that end, it is truly sad that he's unable to make marriage work and that it's now affecting what he has to be willing to endure in the ring in order to pay these ladies and to care for his children and himself. I blame all of this on him as his inability to have any control over his personal life has now bled over into his professional life. It's a sad thing to watch for a man who was once seen as the standard in this business.

So now his legacy is ruined because he should take himself seriously and not joke around? Dude, you need to read what you're saying because in your second post on this thread you said hes ruined his legacy and now you're saying he should have preserved his legacy and act like the shit 24/7.

His marriages failed, big whoop, the guy used to be able to have any woman he wanted. It wasn't a character it was actually him. He can take care of himself, he's living, walking, wrestling, has a wife, kids. So I guess all that belongs to a "broken man."

Ric isn't the standard anymore because he's now 61. Time has moved on, and just like Flair took over from guys like Buddy Rodgers, people like Triple H took over from Ric Flair years ago, that's what Evolution was supposed to be about.

Ric has a legacy, it isn't damaged at all. Shattered Dreams might be an up his ass TNA fan but I'll repeat what he said, anyone that thinks Ric Flair actually wanted to retire doesn't know a lot about Ric Flair. He didn't want to retire, he wanted to continue but Vince saw it as an oppurtunity.

To quote Ric Flair from his autobiography, he wants to die in a wrestling ring. Because for Ric Flair, the past 40 years has been just that, a wrestling ring.

 

[Brian in Austin]

So if HBK does not have a problem with it why do some many cellar dwellers? The bold part is the most important. I am so sick of these johnny come latelys thinking they know the whole story on Flair. You people could not have a more screwy version of what Flair is doing. Anyone that thinks Ric Flair actually wanted to retire doesn't know half as much about him as they claim to. Why should Flair give a fuck that you do not want him to perform? Or to "hurt" his legacy. Maybe when you have a legacy you can order it around. Until then get over yourself.

What would you expect Sean Michaels to say? That he's upset to see Flair demean himself the way he has in TNA? He's not going to say anything close to that. Ric Flair has fallen and quite a bit since he left WWE. How far he continues to fall is up to him.

 

[Brian in Austin]

So now his legacy is ruined because he should take himself seriously and not joke around? Dude, you need to read what you're saying because in your second post on this thread you said hes ruined his legacy and now you're saying he should have preserved his legacy and act like the shit 24/7.

His marriages failed, big whoop, the guy used to be able to have any woman he wanted. It wasn't a character it was actually him. He can take care of himself, he's living, walking, wrestling, has a wife, kids. So I guess all that belongs to a "broken man."

Ric isn't the standard anymore because he's now 61. Time has moved on, and just like Flair took over from guys like Buddy Rodgers, people like Triple H took over from Ric Flair years ago, that's what Evolution was supposed to be about.

Ric has a legacy, it isn't damaged at all. Shattered Dreams might be an up his ass TNA fan but I'll repeat what he said, anyone that thinks Ric Flair actually wanted to retire doesn't know a lot about Ric Flair. He didn't want to retire, he wanted to continue but Vince saw it as an oppurtunity.

To quote Ric Flair from his autobiography, he wants to die in a wrestling ring. Because for Ric Flair, the past 40 years has been just that, a wrestling ring.

Flair should have retired and Vince McMahon provided him with an opportunity to do so gracefully. He turned that opportunity down so he could go to TNA and get his clothes ripped off him on national tv by a wrestler who is now rarely used and when he is, it is as a mid-carder and not a main eventer. Add to that all of his personal baggage, to include his punching out a motorist in the Charlotte, N.C. area, his multiple marriages (nothing to be proud of by the way) and his financial issues and you have the very definition of a ruined legacy.

I'll give you an example. I love golf. Followed and played it most of my life. Guys like Nicklaus, Palmer, and Player care deeply about their legacies and moreso AFTER they retired than before. To them their names are synonymous with excellence, class, and dignity. While competitive and afterward, they all have been true gentlemen and have shown the fans the proper way to act as men.

Flair, conversely, has been willing to sell himself to TNA so he could pay his bills caused by his own hand. Here's a man who was once THE face of wrestling. A man who when someone in any company used the chop, would hear the Woooo!!!!!!'sss ring out all over the arena. He was a man far ahead of his own generation of wrestlers and I for one will choose to remember the days of The 4 Horsemen, his great matches with The American Dream, and Harley Race, and his styling and profiling days with The NWA. THAT was a legacy. What he's done the past year or 2 is downright disgraceful.

 

[He's Phenomenal]

What would you expect Sean Michaels to say? That he's upset to see Flair demean himself the way he has in TNA? He's not going to say anything close to that. Ric Flair has fallen and quite a bit since he left WWE. How far he continues to fall is up to him.

Ric Flair is only gaining more fans (if that's possible). There's no way he's "demeaned" anything. Anyone worth their salt, appreciates the hard work Ric Flair continues to put in. The guy is in his 60's and yet he's still one of the most entertaining and hard working guys in the business. I don't even think I could put my body (in my 20's) through what Flair does every week. Every week he gets beaten up by some younger, fitter, guy but the funny thing is: Flair STILL looks a million dollars doing it! And the reason he gets his arse kicked every week, is because he''s trying to help these guys who are kicking the crap out of him all the time.

 

[Brian in Austin]

Ric Flair is only gaining more fans (if that's possible). There's no way he's "demeaned" anything. Anyone worth their salt, appreciates the hard work Ric Flair continues to put in. The guy is in his 60's and yet he's still one of the most entertaining and hard working guys in the business. I don't even think I could put my body (in my 20's) through what Flair does every week. Every week he gets beaten up by some younger, fitter, guy but the funny thing is: Flair STILL looks a million dollars doing it! And the reason he gets his arse kicked every week, is because he''s trying to help these guys who are kicking the crap out of him all the time.

Again, I'm not diminishing his effort in the ring, but at times the THINGS he does in the ring. I love all of the craziness on the mic. I think he's one of the best of all time on the mic. I'd rank him equally with The Rock or Stone Cold on the mic. I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of right now, but you get the idea. Point is, I don't understand the need in his getting his clothes ripped off his body by Jay Lethal. By the way, where is Jay Lethal these days? I hardly see the guy anymore. What a waste THAT fued was. Then he's blading himself all the time and for what? Does the storyline need a 60 year old getting 'cut' by the younger guys? Really? What does that sell? Wow, guys a third his age can beat him up. What a shock! Fact is, if these young guys were good enough they wouldn't NEED a 60 year old to get them over.


AJ is over. Beer Money are over. Samoa Joe is over, though he keeps getting booked horribly. The Pope is over and I do like where his character is right now, but not against Joe. Should have been against someone like AJ not Samoa Joe. Joe should be in a brutal back and forth with someone like Hernandez, but the Hernandez/Morgan feud is good stuff also. But you get that point.

Back to Ric. I just think that he could be utilitized in a much better way.

 

[Jason Scene]

Flair should have retired and Vince McMahon provided him with an opportunity to do so gracefully.

He didn't retire because he still has matches in him, as evidently shown in his match with Mick Foley on the iMPACT! before Bound for Glory. Vince McMahon wanted him to retire because Ric's retirement and his match with Shawn Michaels would draw, which it did. Wrestlemania 24 needed a big match, and that was it, Ric Flair said the words, "I will never retire!" And he meant it. Before he even signed with TNA he went to Shawn first, and got the go-ahead, stop being a pompous ass. You are not Ric Flair, you know fuck all.

He turned that opportunity down so he could go to TNA and get his clothes ripped off him on national tv by a wrestler who is now rarely used and when he is, it is as a mid-carder and not a main eventer.

Haha, what is it with you and that one incident? "Oh no, Ric Flair got his clothes ripped off him by Jay Lethal. I guess all his 21 World Championship reigns over 30 years are out the window," Ah, NO! Once again, it was a fucking spot. Something to get the rivalry going you dumbass. Go learn about wrestling before commenting on it. That in no way does anything, not even leaves a scratch on the metaphorically side-mirror that is the Mustang which represents Ric Flair's legacy and or career.

Add to that all of his personal baggage, to include his punching out a motorist in the Charlotte, N.C. area, his multiple marriages (nothing to be proud of by the way) and his financial issues and you have the very definition of a ruined legacy.

No, that does nothing to his legacy because it doesn't cross over into his wrestling career, you stupid idiot. All that means, is that Ric Flair's legacy as a good motorist, his legacy for longevity in marriages and his legacy of having a great bank account; which by the way, I'd love to your income because during a global recession it would really speak fucking wonders and we'd see how much of a great human being you are, are all tarnished.

But, it has nothing to do with his legacy. Has nothing to do with him being a 16/21 time World Heavyweight Champion. Has nothing to do with him being one of the greatest wrestlers to ever live. Nothing to do with The Four Horsemen, his matches with the Briscoes, Harley Race, Ricky Steamboat, Terry Funk or anyone for that matter.

I'll give you an example. I love golf. Followed and played it most of my life. Guys like Nicklaus, Palmer, and Player care deeply about their legacies and moreso AFTER they retired than before. To them their names are synonymous with excellence, class, and dignity. While competitive and afterward, they all have been true gentlemen and have shown the fans the proper way to act as men.

Is this a golf forum? And anyway, that was a piss poor example. That's all great for them, but their private lives are secluded, in the wrestling industry dirt spreads fast. Tiger Woods was having affairs with various women for three years before he was found out, Kurt Angle gets a DUI and the IWC knows within hours. Different industries, different people.

Flair, conversely, has been willing to sell himself to TNA so he could pay his bills caused by his own hand. Here's a man who was once THE face of wrestling.

Hulk Hogan also used to be the face of professional wrestling. But guess what? Since around 1995, he hasn't. His star diminished, and that's how wrestling evolves. Nowadays people like John Cena and Randy Orton are the faces of professional wrestling. Ric Flair has always, and will always have star-power, but he hasn't been the face of professional wrestling or one of them since about 1995. Because in WCW, people shit on him, and then several years later WWE reserected his career.

A man who when someone in any company used the chop, would hear the Woooo!!!!!!'sss ring out all over the arena.

You not got sound on your TV? That still happens. Ric Flair's music hits and all you hear from the crowd is "Wooooo!!!" Ric Flair says it, and the fans say "Woooooo!!!" Ric Flair uses his Knife Edged Chop and the fans say, "Wooooo!!!" Get your volume fixed.

He was a man far ahead of his own generation of wrestlers and I for one will choose to remember the days of The 4 Horsemen, his great matches with The American Dream, and Harley Race, and his styling and profiling days with The NWA. THAT was a legacy. What he's done the past year or 2 is downright disgraceful.

Well by all means, that's great for you. Stick in the 80's, it's where you obviously belong, because dude coming from this thread alone you seem to have a very delusional and odd view on Ric Flair. So, you know, watch re-runs of old NWA shows and rewatch Starrcade over-and-over, watch Flair for the Gold continously.

And while you're at that, I'll hear and watch the odd time, "The Nature Boy" Ric Flair in TNA, wooooo his ass off week-after-week, and help a company like TNA hopefully regain the positive reputation it once had back in 2007. Because Ric Flair, still seems to have a bit left in him, and I'll watch and enjoy

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

 

[SpecialFNK]

if you think the likes of Hogan/Flair/Angle/Hardy ect are not useful in TNA then you haven't been watching that closely. it's not all about in ring wrestling. it's a TV show with wrestling.
can Hogan and Flair no longer do a promo?
2 of the biggest names in wrestling history.

 

[He's Phenomenal]

Again, I'm not diminishing his effort in the ring, but at times the THINGS he does in the ring. I love all of the craziness on the mic. I think he's one of the best of all time on the mic. I'd rank him equally with The Rock or Stone Cold on the mic. I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of right now, but you get the idea. Point is, I don't understand the need in his getting his clothes ripped off his body by Jay Lethal. By the way, where is Jay Lethal these days? I hardly see the guy anymore. What a waste THAT fued was. Then he's blading himself all the time and for what? Does the storyline need a 60 year old getting 'cut' by the younger guys? Really? What does that sell? Wow, guys a third his age can beat him up. What a shock! Fact is, if these young guys were good enough they wouldn't NEED a 60 year old to get them over.

They don’t NEED Flair to get over. And Lethal couldn’t even capitalise on the rub Flair gave him. Once the impressions stopped, no one cared about Lethal. That in no way has anything to do with Flair. Flair done his job, he got the fans to care about Lethal and Lethal couldn’t sustain it without Flair. There’s guys on the roster that are easily talented enough (AJ, Anderson, Morgan, Pope, Wolfe, Beer Money etc) to make a real mark without Flair being involved. But ask anyone of those guys if they would like to wrestle Ric Flair, and I’d be very surprised if even one of them said no.