TNA Has Failed

The Enigma said:
^Nothing pisses me off more than ignorant comments like this. OF COURSE the WWE has higher ratings than TNA. WHY SHOULDNT THEY? They're an international company that has beeen around for over half a century. TNA has been around what? 9 Years. The growth they've made in that amount of time is unreal, honestly. Especially considering how the wrestling business is doing in general these days. TNA is not going to conquer the giant that is WWE this quickly. Stuff like that takes YEARS. Anyways, I'm done complaining. But that comment was absolutely ridiculous. And stupid.
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Actually that comment is very revealing. Let's consider a few things shall we?

1. Hulk Hogan - Credited with making pro wrestling mainstream and for making VKM a billionaire. (so to speak)

2. Eric Bischoff - Credited with conquering WWE in the Monday Night Wars and considered one of the best in the business. (allegedly)

3. Kurt Angle - Considered one of the best wrestlers in the world.

4. Sting - Brand name recognition from a former NWA/WCW Champion with impeccable character and work ethic.

5. Vince Russo - Considered part of the team that beat WWE in the Monday Night Wars.

6. Jeff Jarrett - A grizzled veteran who should know the business inside and out by now.

7. Mick Foley - A unique character with tons of great matches to his credit not to mention nosediving off the top of a cage to the floor below during a PPV. Again, name brand recognition.

8. Christian Cage - Was, at the time, a steal for TNA to get him from WWE.
Spent some time as the World Champ. Then bolted for greener pastures again.


Now here's what I'm wondering. It's been nearly what, 2 years since EB, HH, and Russo have come on the scene in TNA? Now consider the fact that their tv ratings have more or less plateued and ask yourself how much longer the Spike TV should give them to compete with WWE in ratings. Should they try to compete with them? Or should Spike just be happy that Impact is the best rated show in their network and wonder what they need to do to get other programming up to speed?

In other words, have they already reached the mountaintop? If so, there's nowhere to go but down. If not, what will it take, and how long will it take, to get there?
 
biziorek said:
hahahahaha!!! what a stupid post! so creating a star only matters if they jump to wwe and make it there? vince squashes them because they are from tna!!! wwe is for kids anyway! my belief is you have made it if you can be big in tna! look at pope! he was nothing running around on the kids show and now he is relevant in tna! hes made it! they are far from a failure! and in australia and england and almost every county that tna is shown it gets better ratings than wwe! its just america that tna is #2! because americans dont like change!
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Pope is relevant? How?
 
Another "TNA is a failure" thread. What a pleasant surprise...

OK number one: Did you even stop to think that this thread has been made already? Did you check? It's there. Secondly, I think we can all agree that TNA can pull a lot of horseshit. However, don't act like WWE is squeaky clean too. How do they fail? They're the highest rated show onSpike and the number two wrestling promotion in the world. Also, they haven't produced any stars? Just becuase they don't go to WWE doesn't mean they're stars. There's A.J. Styles, Beer Money, Christopher Daniels, Matt Morgan...and they've been alive for nine years; I think that's alright. Also, it's iMPACT WRESTLING. WWE isn't the only wrestling company out there. Just because a company isn't as big as WWE in 9 short years doesn't mean it fails. TNA fails...and so does this thread...

Can somebody close this thread?
 
TNA hasn't done anything wrong.. their just a victim of circumstance.. and all the hate against them is really out of line.
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Tell Daffney that.

But has anyone else noticed that the majority of columns on TNA, well at least the ones I see, are all about "WTF is wrong with TNA" type things?
 
Brian in Austin said:
Actually that comment is very revealing. Let's consider a few things shall we?

1. Hulk Hogan - Credited with making pro wrestling mainstream and for making VKM a billionaire. (so to speak)

2. Eric Bischoff - Credited with conquering WWE in the Monday Night Wars and considered one of the best in the business. (allegedly)

3. Kurt Angle - Considered one of the best wrestlers in the world.

4. Sting - Brand name recognition from a former NWA/WCW Champion with impeccable character and work ethic.

5. Vince Russo - Considered part of the team that beat WWE in the Monday Night Wars.

6. Jeff Jarrett - A grizzled veteran who should know the business inside and out by now.

7. Mick Foley - A unique character with tons of great matches to his credit not to mention nosediving off the top of a cage to the floor below during a PPV. Again, name brand recognition.

8. Christian Cage - Was, at the time, a steal for TNA to get him from WWE.
Spent some time as the World Champ. Then bolted for greener pastures again.


Now here's what I'm wondering. It's been nearly what, 2 years since EB, HH, and Russo have come on the scene in TNA? Now consider the fact that their tv ratings have more or less plateued and ask yourself how much longer the Spike TV should give them to compete with WWE in ratings. Should they try to compete with them? Or should Spike just be happy that Impact is the best rated show in their network and wonder what they need to do to get other programming up to speed?

In other words, have they already reached the mountaintop? If so, there's nowhere to go but down. If not, what will it take, and how long will it take, to get there?
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January 4, 2010. 18 months. But in all actuality it has been less. Hogan was out for months not involved with the company due to back surgery and Bischoff had no actual control until 2 months ago when he was promoted from consultant to Executive Producer.

So it is actually hard to tell. Hogan came in, changed the ring to a square, left to have back surgery done, came back to form Immortal, left again to have his spine straitened and rebuilt, and just recently returned a few months ago. So overall Hogan hasn't had time to establish himself and Bischoff didn't have any power other than his opinion.

The last two months since Bischoff was promoted however the show has gotten better and he has already scheduled the summer months to fix the format and programming of IMPACT. So we shall see.
 
Impact Wrestling hasn't failed. They are still on the air, and are from all accounts still making money. People may dispute on whether or not their product is entertaining, but you can not ignore that the promotion is doing well, hence not failing.

Seriously, you can say it's shit That's your opinion. But it's still making money. And as anyone who has ever graduated Elementary School knows, making money = good.
 
TNA is a niche company. They do not suck. If they did, they would not be on television. TNA does need better bookers. That much is true. However, if memory serves me correctly they have a tv deal and are in the business of making money; they're doing that.

On the other side of the coin, I'd say WWE quality is absolutely horrible. As the top dog, they're extremely reliant on their past to support their future. IE, their best ratings are when Austin and Rock appear. That's not a coincidence.

The common denominator to all of this is money. Vince wants to make money. Face it. The old man ain't got long left. He's gonna make his buck while he can. Once he's outta the picture, i do believe HHH will recognize that a good product will make him even more money. We all gotta get old. Some of us are better than others.

In closing, rather than whip the little boy in class (TNA), let's take note of the obvious decline in the old horse (WWE). You can have all the $ in the world and still not produce a good product and wwe shows that on a weekly basis. No, TNA is not on their level. Fact. However, I enjoy TNA for what they are. A company that gives guys work and exposure, let's women cut promos and wrestle, and give fans of wrestling the chance to actually see wrestling.
 
Okay guys here's the question. How long do you give Bischoff and Hogan to improve the product and to what degree do you want to see improvement? i.e. what ratings do you feel they should be getting as opposed to what they are.
 
It's funny the defenses people can come up with.

"It's only been 9 years. That's a short time". The only thing short is the amount of growth they made. I wouldn't say TNA is failing. They're certainly not succeeding by any means.

In closing, rather than whip the little boy in class (TNA), let's take note of the obvious decline in the old horse (WWE). You can have all the $ in the world and still not produce a good product and wwe shows that on a weekly basis. No, TNA is not on their level. Fact. However, I enjoy TNA for what they are. A company that gives guys work and exposure, let's women cut promos and wrestle, and give fans of wrestling the chance to actually see wrestling.
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Blind TNA mark. TNA's quality is horseshit compared to the WWE. Not to mention their poor choices, and the same promos by Hogan and Bischoff.
 
Is TNA really a young company?

They've been around almost as long as ECW and Turner's WCW.

It wouldn't be fair to call the company a complete failure, especially when they're still hanging around. Without figures in front of us, we cannot begin to break down the companies financial situation. We can only speculate.

That said, fans must accept the fact that TNA is a minor league wrestling company(In comparison to WWE) which lacks the marketing, brand awareness, resources and business savvy of the WWE. It's not that people are not accepting of TNA. Has TNA given the fans a reason to support their product? They haven't.

Instead they've done what they felt was best for business: re-creating the mid 90's and pushing guys who are well past their expiration date. TNA's lack of growth is a direct result of their lack of vision.

If the goal was to cut into the wrestling market share, which is 90-95% WWE controlled then yes, they have failed. Their arrows haven't scratched the armor of WWE yet.

If the goal was to increase their viewership, which was obviously the goal going back to January 2010, then yes they have failed. Ratings have remained stagnant. They haven't grown despite the big spending(Hogan, Flair, Hardy,etc). For the money they spend to grow their brand, ratings should be in the 1.5-2.0 range.

Spike TV is a second rate network; TNA is a second rate wrestling company. A match made in heaven. Sometimes it's better to be a big fish in a small pond.
 
TNA hasn't failed. If WWE wasn't around, TNA ratings would skyrocket, and as much as everyone likes to dig into them (myself included) they're doing very well for themselves, just as long as they don't keep getting compared to the WWE. Comparing TNA to WWE and saying TNA has failed in comparison is like comparing the NFL to collage football, and saying Collage football has failed because they're not as big.

Dude, I'd like to smack you in the nuts with a frying pan.
 
You're right if you're saying the production quality is better but saying their WWE is the better product worth watching then its only your opinion. I honestly feel Impact has the better talent on their roster and more compelling storylines. WWE makes more money. EA Sports is the more financial profiting company but 2K makes a MUCH better basketball game. It happens when most companies start getting way ahead of their competition.
 
Derf said:
TNA hasn't failed. If WWE wasn't around, TNA ratings would skyrocket, and as much as everyone likes to dig into them (myself included) they're doing very well for themselves, just as long as they don't keep getting compared to the WWE. Comparing TNA to WWE and saying TNA has failed in comparison is like comparing the NFL to collage football, and saying Collage football has failed because they're not as big.

Dude, I'd like to smack you in the nuts with a frying pan.
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If WWE wasn't around then TNA would cease to exist. TNA, after all lives off the afterbirth of WWE. As long as WWE is successful, it will make room for secondary alternatives. Without the main course there is no alternative, right?

College football is successful in its own right. In fact, it's a completely different animal than the NFL. This is a terrible analogy. Both the NFL and NCAA football are billion dollars industries. We can only speculate on TNA's finances. I doubt they're as profitable as the NCAA football.
 
bullsgo said:
If WWE wasn't around then TNA would cease to exist. TNA, after all lives off the afterbirth of WWE. As long as WWE is successful, it will make room for secondary alternatives. Without the main course there is no alternative, right?

College football is successful in its own right. In fact, it's a completely different animal than the NFL. This is a terrible analogy. Both the NFL and NCAA football are billion dollars industries. We can only speculate on TNA's finances. I doubt they're as profitable as the NCAA football.
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Fact is that TNA is a different company from WWE in that it's regional in size and scope. It can't compete with WWE. TNA should just focus on improving their product and hopefully that results in improved tv ratings, house show sell thru and PPV buyrates. What I'm saying lately is greatly improved over what we had say a few months ago.

I hope they prevail for the long term as we need more than one choice and truth is, WWE needs someone to keep them honest.
 
TNA is still kicking around and has grown A LOT since 2002 so I would say they have not failed ANYTHING.

First off quality is all about personal taste. Just because you don't like the product doesn't mean they haven't been successful. For example, I hate Oprah does that mean she was unsuccessful? (PS if anyone answers "she wasn't successful" do yourself a favor and move to a cave in the Andes mountains).

Secondly the only company that HAS created huge stars is WWE, ROH or any other independent promotion hasn't created anybody. Sure, they got people noticed (like CM Punk and Bryan Danielson) but it was the WWE who actually made them stars, even if it was giving them time on their shows every week. My point is you need a big company behind you to become a big star, without the big company you are a big fish in a small pond, thats like being the most popular wrestler in Georgia IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU A BIG STAR.

Thirdly, since 2002 the company has grown by leaps and bounds. Sure they could have grown more but that shouldn't take away from the success they already accomplished. They've gotten on network TV (primetime no less), expanded to many different countries and often have shows all over the country and world, how is that not growing? More people see their product, their fan base has grown BIG TIME since 2002 (even though it probably could be bigger), have bigger face value than before and most of are much more profitable and aren't just living week-to-week. If that's not growing I don't know what is.

Do I like TNA? No, but saying they have failed is ridiculous. TNA technically hasn't failed until they are out of business.
 
Brian in Austin said:
Fact is that TNA is a different company from WWE in that it's regional in size and scope. It can't compete with WWE. TNA should just focus on improving their product and hopefully that results in improved tv ratings, house show sell thru and PPV buyrates. What I'm saying lately is greatly improved over what we had say a few months ago.

I hope they prevail for the long term as we need more than one choice and truth is, WWE needs someone to keep them honest.
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I'm sure that ROH will answer the challenge now that they've got a small tv deal They seem to have the right idea. TNA comes off to me as simply a small time company who wants people to believe they're big time. Their arrogance and lack of vision is what's keeping the company down more than anything. How could Vince Russo still have a job?
 
bullsgo said:
I'm sure that ROH will answer the challenge now that they've got a small tv deal They seem to have the right idea. TNA comes off to me as simply a small time company who wants people to believe they're big time. Their arrogance and lack of vision is what's keeping the company down more than anything. How could Vince Russo still have a job?
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Look, I won't presume to know what these guys are doing, or dealing with backstage. But the finished product is what they are judged on. Lately that's been better than in months past.

But some of the decisions that were being made, and in some part still are, must be questioned. Jeff Hardy, RVD, Chyna, Scott Hall, Tommy Dreamer. All recent hires (even those that were temporary) that should be questioned in terms of what the long-term goals were. Heck the whole ECW V2 was a mess, yet they invested. For what?
 
Brian in Austin said:
Look, I won't presume to know what these guys are doing, or dealing with backstage. But the finished product is what they are judged on. Lately that's been better than in months past.

But some of the decisions that were being made, and in some part still are, must be questioned. Jeff Hardy, RVD, Chyna, Scott Hall, Tommy Dreamer. All recent hires (even those that were temporary) that should be questioned in terms of what the long-term goals were. Heck the whole ECW V2 was a mess, yet they invested. For what?
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According to reports Hardcore Justice did around 20,000 buyrates. The second biggest PPV next to Bound For Glory. Clearly that mess drew if reports are true.
 
Reports of TNA's death are greatly exaggerated. Objectively, until the company folds it hasn't failed. Whether or not it's performed to the expectations set for it is debatable, but none of us have the knowledge to do so.

Subjectively, Impact has been hit and miss for years, ever since Russo came back. Lately, however, it's improved drastically: the production quality has sky-rocketed, we are getting basic one on one feuds and matches in lieu of ridiculously convoluted angles, and Impact's originals are being showcased in prominent roles. The TNA title is regaining it's relevancy, the X division is being showcased with a great feud between three talented performers (Kaz, Kendrick, and Abyss), the tag division is still doing great, and the Knockouts division has nearly been rebuilt (although it will be hard to replace Kong). Even the writing and booking seem to have improved. It's not perfect, but for the first time in a long time it's more enjoyable than not.

For the moment, at least, Impact Wrestling is doing fine. Hopefully it lasts this time.
 
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