"This will change TNA forever"

[Bobby B]

"It will rock TNA to it's core"
"TNA will never be the same again"
"I'm gonna turn TNA upside down"
"We are going to take TNA over"
"I built this company, I'm not going to let someone else ruin it"

Why does every other storyline have to be centered around one of these lines?

I've heard these line so many times in the last 4 months, and none of them even make any sense. They all seem to be around changing TNA forever. Abyss said it last week, Flair said Fortune were going to take over TNA, Jeff Jarrett keeps talking about the future of TNA.

Its all such bullshit. Take the whole Jarrett/Sting/Nash/Hogan storyline. I still have no idea what they are talking about, but they keep talking about it as the "TNA power struggle" - or the commentators do atleast.

But this isn't a "power struggle" at all. Lets just say that Jeff Jarrett came out next week on Impact and admits defeat. Says that Sting and Nash win. Then what happens? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. They talk up power struggles, and changing TNA forever - when nothing can happen.

Then there's Ric Flair. Who claims that Fortune are taking over TNA. Again it makes no sense. Abyss said it too.

There are two problems with this (other than the fact it's fucking stupid):

1) Dixie Carter is an onscreen character - how can anyone take over TNA, when the person signing the paychecks is part of storylines? Surely the minute any of these groups start to become an actual threat to TNA, she pulls the plug on their contracts and ends it.

2) How can three seperate things take over TNA? - Abyss said that "they" will turn TNA upside down (think that's what he said), Flair's FoUrtune (yes, there called FOURtune, but there's 7 of them - it's Russo I'm hardly surprised) said that they are taking over TNA, and the Jarrett storyline talks about a power struggle. They can't all take over TNA.

3) It's fucking stupid - Seriously. All of these storylines, and there's nothing to get exited about. Nothing will happen, nobody is going to change TNA forever.

I'm baffled anyone can watch TNA for it's storylines, nothing to get exited about. The wrestling at times is very good, but all these bullshit storylines are stopping TNA from gaining any long term new viewers.

 

[Reddannihilation]

"It will rock TNA to it's core"
"TNA will never be the same again"
"I'm gonna turn TNA upside down"
"We are going to take TNA over"
"I built this company, I'm not going to let someone else ruin it"

What is the goal of all combat sport competitors? Domination. That's why.

Why does every other storyline have to be centered around one of these lines?

They don't and they aren't.

I've heard these line so many times in the last 4 months, and none of them even make any sense. They all seem to be around changing TNA forever. Abyss said it last week, Flair said Fortune were going to take over TNA, Jeff Jarrett keeps talking about the future of TNA.

Abyss said They were going to change TNA, Fourtune said they would take over and Jarrett wants to pass the torch. Oh yeah dude, totally the same storyline.

Its all such bullshit. Take the whole Jarrett/Sting/Nash/Hogan storyline. I still have no idea what they are talking about, but they keep talking about it as the "TNA power struggle" - or the commentators do atleast.

Sting and Nash want Hogan gone, Jarrett and Hogan want Nash and Sting to step down as wrestlers. Oh that was hard.

But this isn't a "power struggle" at all. Lets just say that Jeff Jarrett came out next week on Impact and admits defeat. Says that Sting and Nash win. Then what happens? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. They talk up power struggles, and changing TNA forever - when nothing can happen.

Then Sting and Nash wail on Hogan and any young guy they want to. Refusing to retire. Simple.

Then there's Ric Flair. Who claims that Fortune are taking over TNA. Again it makes no sense. Abyss said it too.

Fourtune's going to dominate everyone and hold all the titles. Abyss wants to change the leadership in TNA, different things, both make sense.

There are two problems with this (other than the fact it's fucking stupid):

1) Dixie Carter is an onscreen character - how can anyone take over TNA, when the person signing the paychecks is part of storylines? Surely the minute any of these groups start to become an actual threat to TNA, she pulls the plug on their contracts and ends it.

Is this your first time watching wrestling? When Steve Austin was constantly beating up McMahon did you sit at home saying "Oh my God, Austin is obviously going to be fired and jailed for assault". It's wrestling, it's fake. No one complained when the nWo threatened to takeover WCW even though everyone knew the nWo was part of WCW.

2) How can three seperate things take over TNA? - Abyss said that "they" will turn TNA upside down (think that's what he said),

So you aren't even sure what Abyss said but you're whinging about it? Ok.

Flair's FoUrtune (yes, there called FOURtune, but there's 7 of them - it's Russo I'm hardly surprised) said that they are taking over TNA,

Number of successful storylines Russo's booked > Number of storylines you've booked. Fourtune wants to dominate TNA, how hard to understand is that?

and the Jarrett storyline talks about a power struggle. They can't all take over TNA.

Sting and Nash aren't trying to take over TNA, they just want their spots and they want Hogan gone.

3) It's fucking stupid - Seriously. All of these storylines, and there's nothing to get exited about. Nothing will happen, nobody is going to change TNA forever.

Nothing to get what about? Exited? Word up. Fourtune trying to dominate the entire company? I'm excited. Jarrett and Hogan vs. Sting and Nash? I'm excited and Abyss unknown masters coming to TNA to takeover the whole company? Well goddamn, I'm excited by that too.

I'm baffled anyone can watch TNA for it's storylines, nothing to get exited about. The wrestling at times is very good, but all these bullshit storylines are stopping TNA from gaining any long term new viewers.

Lol the "bullshit storylines". The issues you've raised are ******ed. Literally, you must think wrestling is real. When Rikishi ran Steve Austin over with a car, did you sit there wondering why he wasn't booked for hit and run? You must've. TNA has plenty of long term viewers, I'm a long term viewer. Going on 8 years, looks like that proved you wrong.

 

[D-Man]

1) Dixie Carter is an onscreen character - how can anyone take over TNA, when the person signing the paychecks is part of storylines? Surely the minute any of these groups start to become an actual threat to TNA, she pulls the plug on their contracts and ends it.

So I guess the nWo was stupid... and the Ministry... and the Main Event Mafia...

It's just a storyline that's been done before. The success rate for this type of angle is very high, depending on how good the writing is. Russo is at the helm and this is basically his bread and butter, so I'd let it go on for a while before jumping to conclusions.

2) How can three seperate things take over TNA? - Abyss said that "they" will turn TNA upside down (think that's what he said), Flair's FoUrtune (yes, there called FOURtune, but there's 7 of them - it's Russo I'm hardly surprised) said that they are taking over TNA, and the Jarrett storyline talks about a power struggle. They can't all take over TNA.

First of all, the name FOURtune is an idea that's pigggybacking off the Four Horsemen idea. But since the "Four Horsemen" is a name that's copyrighted by the WWE, they needed to change it. The same went for EV2.0.

Back on topic...

Of COURSE they can.

Russo's writing is well known to consist of a power struggle between different factions. A perfect example of this was the MEM vs Frontline in TNA or the Corporation vs. the Ministry. Two factions were formed within the same promotion who were having a power struggle, but the whole time it was all about taking over the promotion. We knew damn well that Vince/Dixie could've pulled the plug on it all if it were real, but that would've killed the fun for us.

3) It's fucking stupid - Seriously. All of these storylines, and there's nothing to get exited about. Nothing will happen, nobody is going to change TNA forever.

Trust me, I agree with this. TNA is like the boy who cried wolf. You rant and rave about announcements that are going to "change wrestling forever", only to find out that they did nothing more than sign someone like RVD or move Impact from Thursday to Monday and then back to Thursday. There's not enough validity to their statements or enough muscle backing it all up. I'm sure that even the biggest TNA fans are sick and tired of the Tweets and announcements, but this conversation is for another thread.

I'm baffled anyone can watch TNA for it's storylines, nothing to get exited about. The wrestling at times is very good, but all these bullshit storylines are stopping TNA from gaining any long term new viewers.

TNA is very inconsistent. They do a lot of great things but even MORE awful things. They're the kings of not following through with storylines or changing things on the fly to cater to a current situation. They tote their new signings and production changes as being the next new renovation to the pro-wrestling industry when they are nothing more than a normal acquisition. However, their "wrestling" product is (and has been) consistently better than other televised promotions and they have TONS of talent (possibly too much for their own good). They need to sit down, assess their star power and positive aspects of their program, sort it all out, get a better and more consistent game plan, and do what they are capable of doing... getting to #1 in the market. The potential is there but it's not being utilized correctly.

 

[johnbragg]

So I guess the nWo was stupid... and the Ministry... and the Main Event Mafia...

No, those groups all had semi-plausible in-character explanations as to HOW they would take over. NWO was going to win all the belts and then start their own promotion with Ted Dibiase's money. Then, with Bischoff, they DID take over.

Didn't the Ministry use Stephanie McMahon as a hostage to make Vince give in? Besides "It's Magic" covers a lot of plotholes.

With the Main Event Mafia, Angle would sometimes talk about the TNA Board of Directors, executives from Spike TV, advertisers, etc., which reinforced the idea that these big stars had leverage over the company.

As of now, no such explanation has been given for either Abyss' They or for the neo-wolfpac.

2) How can three seperate things take over TNA?

Who says they're three separate things? A good storyline would end up tying at least some of them together in a logical fashion.

What is the goal of all combat sport
competitors? Domination. That's why.

I don't follow UFC closely, but do Brock Lesnar and Randy Couture argue about taking over and challenge Dana White to fights for control of the company?

Sting and Nash want Hogan gone

First question--Why? Sting's heel turn has still not been addressed. And Nash has said he couldn't pass up siding with Sting one more time.

Second question--how? Hogan is head of TNA or whatever. No matter how badly you beat his ass in the ring, he's still head of TNA.

But this isn't a "power struggle" at all. Lets just say that Jeff Jarrett came out next week on Impact and admits defeat. Says that Sting and Nash win. Then what happens? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. They talk up power struggles, and changing TNA forever - when nothing can happen.

Then Sting and Nash wail on Hogan and any young guy they want to. Refusing to retire. Simple

Then Hogan FIRES THEM. Problem solved. "See you at Comicon, Big Sexy."

This sort of storyline worked in the Attitude Era in WWF because Vince was being challenged by his own children, who he couldn't fire, or at least really didn't want to. Vince firing Austin was difficult in kayfabe because of the real-life WCW that Austin could go to. In WCW, there was a distant corporate leadership that factions could conspire with.

Fourtune's going to dominate everyone and hold all the titles.

I agree, Fourtune can be set aside from this discussion right now. All they want to do so far is to hold all the titles and the top spots. Hogan, Abyss, Jarrett, Sting don't matter to them.

Yet. Fourtune has also planted seeds during the EV2 program, and with the laying out of the old guys, of leading a TNA Originals/New Breed/Young Guns crusade against the older stars. Which would either require management to accept the changeover, fight the changeover or be replaced.

1) Dixie Carter is an onscreen character ...Surely the minute any of these groups start to become an actual threat to TNA, she pulls the plug on their contracts and ends it

This is a plot hole that needs plugging.

It's wrestling, it's fake.

Fake should not be an excuse to be stupid. (That's Russo's biggest weakness)

When Austin-McMahon was running, Austin was making Vince a lot of money, real and in-storyline. If McMAhon fired Austin, Austin goes to WCW and still makes money.

When the NWO storyline started, kayfabe wasn't 100% dead. It was barely plausible that they could take the belts and leave, just as Flair had done a few years before. (Didn't they run empty arena shows as "NWO Saturday Night?") They put effort into creating credibility that NWO was a separate group, with their own referees, shows, etc.

When Rikishi ran Steve Austin over with a car, did you sit there wondering why he wasn't booked for hit and run?

No, we sat there disappointed at the huge letdown. If you're using the Austin-car-crash angle as your precedent, I think you lose by default.

 

[johnbragg]

Fantasy booking time.

The best resolution to the plot holes is to create a unified explanation. Tie the plotlines together.

Abyss and Janice disrupt the Sting & Nash vs Jarrett & Hogan match. Sting and Nash head for the hills, taking the countout loss rather than deal with Abyss. Abyss whales on Hogan. RVD, Foley and let's say Brian Kendrick come out to make the save. Security separates everyone, gets everyone to the back.

RVD beats Abyss easily. Too easily. Abyss gets a mike, and reveals that "They" told him to lay down, since RVD no longer matters.

During the Angle-Hardy-Anderson match, Abyss, Sting and Nash storm the ring, with Sting's bat and with Janice, and lay out Hardy and Anderson. RVD tries to make the save, gets beaten down.

Angle grabs the belt, gets the mic, announces himself as the new TNA World Champion, and announces that Spike TV has exersized their contract option to buy 51% of TNA--Hogan is out, Dixie Carter is out, and he, Nash and Sting are the new TNA Board of Directors.

Abyss, on his knees, screams out "Praise them! They have come!"

 

[D-Man]

No, those groups all had semi-plausible in-character explanations as to HOW they would take over. NWO was going to win all the belts and then start their own promotion with Ted Dibiase's money. Then, with Bischoff, they DID take over.

So, maybe if you wait long enough then Dixie might join "them". Who knows, right?

Didn't the Ministry use Stephanie McMahon as a hostage to make Vince give in?

Yeah. What's the point? It's still the same scenario.

Isn't FOURtune using violence and brute force to take over?

I don't get your point.

Besides "It's Magic" covers a lot of plotholes.

Actually, during a time period when "magic" and "characters" ruled the pro-wrestling world, it had as much validity as Batman in "The Dark Knight." Once again, I don't see your point.

With the Main Event Mafia, Angle would sometimes talk about the TNA Board of Directors, executives from Spike TV, advertisers, etc., which reinforced the idea that these big stars had leverage over the company.

So did the Undertaker and the Ministry. They would speak of using influences outside of Vince McMahon (a.k.a. Board of Directors) to take over. Like you mentioned before, it's all part of the "magical plot."

As of now, no such explanation has been given for either Abyss' They or for the neo-wolfpac.

Agreed. But I'd give them some time. After all, the big reveal is at their biggest PPV of the year. My money is on them falling short in the buildup department but hell, I've been proven wrong before.

I can understand where you're coming from with this thread. TNA is well-known for their plotholes. But I think your radar is a bit off on these examples here. You're comparing reality to storyline and drawing no line in between. Even though their storylines have major flaws in them most of the time, according to the examples I gave, there is no correlation between TNA's version of this storyline and the connection you're making towards real-life.

 

[Reddannihilation]

I don't follow UFC closely, but do Brock Lesnar and Randy Couture argue about taking over and challenge Dana White to fights for control of the company?

No, Lesnar dominates his opponents. Take a look at the quotes I was given to work with;

"It will rock TNA to it's core"
"TNA will never be the same again"
"I'm gonna turn TNA upside down"
"We are going to take TNA over"
"I built this company, I'm not going to let someone else ruin it"

A grand total of one of those says anything about a take over and it's further clarified later in his post that he was referring to fourtune. When factions in wrestling claim to be taking over they mean they're going to become a dominant force.

First question--Why? Sting's heel turn has still not been addressed. And Nash has said he couldn't pass up siding with Sting one more time.

It's been addressed, you must've missed it. Sting views Hogan and Bischoff as a cancer, his opinion is that they suck everything dry and salt the Earth.

Second question--how? Hogan is head of TNA or whatever. No matter how badly you beat his ass in the ring, he's still head of TNA.

He's 50/50 with Carter. You break his legs and then he can't walk, the idea is to eject Hogan from his seat of power and for Sting the easy way to do this is to take out Hogan's boys and come after Hogan himself.

Then Hogan FIRES THEM. Problem solved. "See you at Comicon, Big Sexy."

But it's already been covered that he doesn't have that power. Hogan hasn't so much as threatened to fire a person in TNA.

This sort of storyline worked in the Attitude Era in WWF because Vince was being challenged by his own children, who he couldn't fire, or at least really didn't want to.

Yeah he was just up for choking his daughter with a lead pipe.

Vince firing Austin was difficult in kayfabe because of the real-life WCW that Austin could go to. In WCW, there was a distant corporate leadership that factions could conspire with.

So, McMahon fired plenty of people in kayfabe when WCW was around. He fired Shawn Michaels as commisioner. There are plenty of instances in the WWE post-WCW in which McMahon could've fired people but didn't, he could've fired Austin when Austin low-blowed him after Survivor Series 01. He could've fired Kurt Angle when Kurt put him in the ankle lock, he could've fired Cena, DX, just about anyone who disrespected him, but he doesn't because it's wrestling.

Fake should not be an excuse to be stupid. (That's Russo's biggest weakness)

When Austin-McMahon was running, Austin was making Vince a lot of money, real and in-storyline. If McMAhon fired Austin, Austin goes to WCW and still makes money.

So Hogan fires Sting and WWE gets their hands on the one guy they never had. Same thing.

No, we sat there disappointed at the huge letdown. If you're using the Austin-car-crash angle as your precedent, I think you lose by default.

Ok, you need another one, why was the Rock not arrested for attempted murder when he threw Austin off a bridge? Why was Austin not arrested for attempted murder when he locked HHH in a room with a rattlesnake. Kane was never charged with assault for setting fire to Jim Ross? Kurt Angle was never charged with kidnapping when he kidnapped Austin? The list goes on.

It's wrestling, it's fake. Shit happens all the time that in a real life situation would get you jailtime, it doesn't happen because wrestling is fake.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

TNA is like the boy who cried wolf. You rant and rave about announcements that are going to "change wrestling forever", only to find out that they did nothing more than sign someone like RVD or move Impact from Thursday to Monday and then back to Thursday. There's not enough validity to their statements or enough muscle backing it all up. I'm sure that even the biggest TNA fans are sick and tired of the Tweets and announcements, but this conversation is for another thread.

I think this is the answer to all you answers JPK.
See TNA is waving, screaming, doing all it can to get our and everyone's attention. The problem is now they have let the plot down so many times that our expectation is low of them in terms of storyline twists. However this low sense of expectation is also good because anything even above average will now be seen as a grand success.
But in the long run, it's all about building on one after another good, entertaining storylines.

MEM was a fantastic storyline and never in the past was I more glued to TNA then during the MEM days. Angle was beyond epic in his role and everybody else was stellar on a weekly basis. Since then...it's been promising, there have been very good matches but the plot is so meshed that it is easy point a flaw out.

Number of successful storylines Russo's booked > Number of storylines you've booked.

This is an absurd rebuttal, really what is the point of this statement.

JPK, you have however not pointed out a flaw, just stated the obvious and provided some very unjust and crude backup statements. You have been flamed enough so I wont get into your points.

TNA, in my book, has a more entertaining young roster. I see dollar signs on a lot more potential megastars than in WWE. It's their storyline execution that is a problem.
From Super Mex to Amazing Red, the talent pool there is just so brilliant.

 

[Reddannihilation]

This is an absurd rebuttal, really what is the point of this statement.

That Vince Russo is constantly criticised by people who have no experience or knowledge of booking. That Russo is routinely called stupid yet has somehow managed to hold positions in all of the top wrestling promotions of the last 20 years, I'm preyyu sure the point of that statement was to shut up someone who can't hold a candle to an overly criticised booker.

 

[johnbragg]

there is no correlation between TNA's version of this storyline and the connection you're making towards real-life

No, in the storyline, Hogan and Dixie Carter run TNA. Dixie Carter owns TNA, in the storylines. It happens to also be true in real life, but that's secondary. Since Dixie Carter owns TNA, you can't "take over" or get rid of Hogan or whatever without somehow addressing the fact that Dixie Carter could stop you with the stroke of a pen.

A storyline could be written and executed where Faction Z runs a campaign against Hogan, the purpose of which is to undermine Dixie Carters' confidence in Hogan and get her to fire him.

A storyline could be written where Dixie Carter somehow no longer owns TNA, and some group aligned with Faction Z does.

When factions in wrestling claim to be taking over they mean they're going to become a dominant force.

Sometimes yes--Evolution, Four Horsemen, etc. Sometimes no--NWO, WCW/ECW Invasion. And Abyss has said that when "They" get here, Hogan and Dixie Carter will be gone. That's a plot hole waiting to happen, and it's a plot hole they didn't have to open.

Sting views Hogan and Bischoff as a cancer, his opinion is that they suck everything dry and salt the Earth

With Sting going on about deception, I don't think "I hate Hogan" is the whole story. Lame if it is.

Hogan hasn't so much as threatened to fire a person in TNA.

How logical is it that he CAN'T fire someone? The default assumption is that the Man In Charge can fire people. Do you think that Dixie Carter can fire people (in character)? If she can and he can't, they're not 50-50, are they?

Bottom line, fake does not excuse stupid. "It's fake/it's just wrestling" becomes an excuse for lazy writing that would not be tolerated anywhere else in the entertainment industry, besides kid's cartoons and comics from generations ago.

If you wrote for a Batman cartoon today, you wouldn't get away with that attitude. If you wrote for Hannah Montana, you wouldn't get away with that attitude.

 

[johnbragg]

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbragg View Post

Angle grabs the belt, gets the mic, announces himself as the new TNA World Champion, and announces that Spike TV has exersized their contract option to buy 51% of TNA--Hogan is out, Dixie Carter is out, and he, Nash and Sting are the new TNA Board of Directors.

Figures I would forget my old username . Anyway, SpikeTV actually have that contract option or you just shooting off?

I made the contract option up. It's kind of plausible, though, which helps a lot.

And get over to the administration board before you get banned for multiple accounts.

 

[Bobby B]

That Vince Russo is constantly criticised by people who have no experience or knowledge of booking. That Russo is routinely called stupid yet has somehow managed to hold positions in all of the top wrestling promotions of the last 20 years, I'm preyyu sure the point of that statement was to shut up someone who can't hold a candle to an overly criticised booker.

It baffles me too, he's ran one promotion into the ground, and has taken another one from drawing a 1.0 ish rating in 2007, to a 1.0 ish rating in 2010.

Number of successful storylines Russo's booked < Number of unsuccessful storylines Russo has booked.

I wonder how many people would disagree with that statement......

 

[Reddannihilation]

It baffles me too, he's ran one promotion into the ground, and has taken another one from drawing a 1.0 ish rating in 2007, to a 1.0 ish rating in 2010.

Really? Let's take a look, Bischoff fired from WCW, ratings at 2.9, Russo comes in brings a highest rating of 3.5, Russo fired, replaced by Kevin Sullivan ratings drop to 2.4, rehired, concussed spends last 6 months of WCW's existence at home with post-concussion syndrome. So who ran what into which ground?

Russo takes a company that in 05-06 was getting 0.7's, 0.8's and has it at 1.0's. Consistent ratings if ever there were.

Number of successful storylines Russo's booked < Number of unsuccessful storylines Russo has booked.

U mad bro? Do you even know what storylines he has and hasn't booked? Do you just assume any story that happens when he's head booker/writer has to have come from him?

I wonder how many people would disagree with that statement......

Plenty, provided they're not the Kool-aid drinking IWC sheep who spout off the same shit day in day out you know "Fire Russo" "Super-Cena Sux" "Push Da Young Guys" "Anyone Over 40 Sux" "5 Star Rating from Meltzer means GOOD".

Seriously, come at me bro.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

That Vince Russo is constantly criticised by people who have no experience or knowledge of booking. That Russo is routinely called stupid yet has somehow managed to hold positions in all of the top wrestling promotions of the last 20 years, I'm preyyu sure the point of that statement was to shut up someone who can't hold a candle to an overly criticised booker.

I do agree with you. I do think Russo's stint with the WCW is more highlighted by some of the higher-ups in forums just to take a jibe at him.
True, his programming wasn't good there but what he did in WWF was sheer brilliance.
A lot of Overlords in these forums say how he created crash tv, how it ruined the business.
That same Strategy created guys like The Rock and Stone Cold and SAVED the WWF from its competition.

I agree with you Red, I just didn't think phrasing it as-
Number of successful storylines Russo's booked > Number of storylines you've booked. was the right way.

I have defended Russo's booking a number of times, and I do believe his negatives are highlighted thoroughly by the IWC, and his merits are disregarded unjustly.

 

[Bobby B]

Well then we have no reason to disagree, the way I see it though a cheap jibe of "FOURtune, lolz Russo can't count there is 7 !!!!1111!!!!11!!" wasn't really worth a serious response.

Well if he can't count to 7, then I don't particularly trust anything he does.

One of the best lines I've ever seen on TV happened last week:

Tommy Dreamer in the ring, with all seven members of fourtune on the ramp

"Why don't the four of you come down here and sort this out"

THERE'S 7 OF THEM

Words fail me

 

[Reddannihilation]

Well if he can't count to 7, then I don't particularly trust anything he does.

Seriously, you're such a bad ass man. Quick, start a "fire Russo" chant.

One of the best lines I've ever seen on TV happened last week:

Tommy Dreamer in the ring, with all seven members of fourtune on the ramp

"Why don't the four of you come down here and sort this out"

THERE'S 7 OF THEM

Words fail me

They certainly do, as Tommy Dreamer stood in the ring with 3 other men and challenged any 4 guys from Fourtune to face them 4 on 4. Good job not actually getting the quote right though.

 

[johnbragg]

They certainly do, as Tommy Dreamer stood in the ring with 3 other men and challenged any 4 guys from Fourtune to face them 4 on 4. Good job not actually getting the quote right though.

So, there's just not a thing wrong with having six active wrestlers in a group named "Fourtune"? That doesn't reflect a lack of long term planning or a decision making problem?

There were other options.

1. Have Matt Morgan rather than Kazarian as the fourth wrestler, and leave Doug Williams out of Fourtune.
2. Don't use the spelling "Fourtune."

But TNA, and presumably Russo, went with Kazarian as a member of the new four horsemen, and now are trying to dance around it.

It's the kind of obvious flaw that can cause channel-surfers to immediately tune out, saying "that's so stupid." Not to mention bugging me.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Well then we have no reason to disagree, the way I see it though a cheap jibe of "FOURtune, lolz Russo can't count there is 7 !!!!1111!!!!11!!" wasn't really worth a serious response.

I know it is a play on the Horseman this but really isnt it a little weird that they insist on calling it FOURtune?

I really dig the stable (Although I think Kaz's place should've gone to Magnum), has some of the best young pro-wrestlers on TV right now, (real mark for Roode) I hope they are given a great storyline and a thorough run.

P.S I'd go nuts if the MEM returned to face Fortune!!!

 

[Rayne]

Seriously, come at me bro.

I will, you're always good for some circular logic and a few good laughs. We're not going to be resorting to court law today, however. Let's see if you can respond to my arguments this time, instead of saying "oh, I don't understand that, so it must be ******ed", again.

Really? Let's take a look, Bischoff fired from WCW, ratings at 2.9, Russo comes in brings a highest rating of 3.5, Russo fired, replaced by Kevin Sullivan ratings drop to 2.4, rehired, concussed spends last 6 months of WCW's existence at home with post-concussion syndrome. So who ran what into which ground?

Russo takes a company that in 05-06 was getting 0.7's, 0.8's and has it at 1.0's. Consistent ratings if ever there were.

------------------------

U mad bro? Do you even know what storylines he has and hasn't booked? Do you just assume any story that happens when he's head booker/writer has to have come from him?

This is a prime example of that circular "I can't lose!!!" logic that makes you think you're good at this debate thing, but looks like a giant logical fallacy to anyone who's actually debated somewhere besides pro wrestling internet forums. His overall work is obviously good, according to your logic, since a shock booker managed to produce a bump in ratings during his three month tenure. If anyone has anything negative to say about him, however, according to your logic, they can't know what he did or didn't book, and thus have no point.

This only works if we assume you know what he was booking. And if we forget that after he was rehired three months later, he was unable to bump the ratings again.

Sources:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/Monday_Night_Wars_Ratings.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Russo

You can spare me the "you trust Wikipedia, omg!!!" canard that is the last refuge of anyone forced to confront their logic against the actual facts. I used the Monday Night Wars ratings chart and the Vince Russo bio to determine his exact hiring/firing dates.

Now- if we ignore that hole in your logic that forces us to assume you knew what Russo was booking, and assume he was solely responsible for TNA's ratings over the past five years as you are expecting us to do, we still run into a problem. He took TNA from 0.7-0.8 to 1.0 (yay?), and then to 1.0's for the next several years. IF we assume he was solely responsible for that, as your post implies we should, that means he was able to create a short ratings bump, but was unable to follow that up by drawing more viewers. TNA remains at a 1.0 today.

That Vince Russo is constantly criticised by people who have no experience or knowledge of booking. That Russo is routinely called stupid yet has somehow managed to hold positions in all of the top wrestling promotions of the last 20 years, I'm preyyu sure the point of that statement was to shut up someone who can't hold a candle to an overly criticised booker.

Professional wrestling is filled with people who struck gold once, and parlayed that into a career. Eric Bischoff was behind WCW's best years, and hasn't done jack-shit since. However, he's still able to talk the talk and land himself some cushy jobs. Paul Heyman was behind ECW's 'rise', since then the highlight of his career has been publishing a weblog and running OVW, and yet he was heavily recruited by TNA.

On the other hand, the creative staff at WWE is filled with Stephanie McMahon and a dozen college dropouts. (I don't know that all of them are college dropouts. Most of them are.) The WWE is pulling in ratings in the mid 3 range. We are either forced to assume that Stephanie McMahon is a genius beyond comparison, or maybe that longevity in the wrestling business doesn't imply brilliance.

Now I know you can go sentence by sentence, say "nuh uh, you're a stoopidhead!", and act like you've proven something. (Let's not forget the out of context quote games you like to play, where you cut sentences apart and pretend the results are ringing endorsements of your statements.) It gets tiring. If you're looking to go "oh, he didn't respond, I obviously win!", hit me with your little quote wars game again. You're obviously a person that needs every cheap victory he can get. I've responded to your comments with sourced arguments of my own, lets see if you're capable of doing the same.

I doubt it.

 

[kindo_stick]

i agree tna need to make new storylines and that the jarret nash sting thing is a bit weird but tna need you staff because the sercurity want to be superstars and al snow and the rest of the board all got involed when ecw invaded tna.

but tna make the same storylines but with twists to it all but they do need a different slogan now.

i think that tna needs to get rid of nash and sting and put jarret as a perminate board member and him hulk hogan and eric bishchoff and dixie carter could make tna the place to be. ric flair should go and fourtune should be disabled. tnas feature is somoa joe aj styles matt morgan and the young guns and the legends should step down and do what jeff jarret says and pass down the torch to the feature of tna and tna is on the road to succeess.

rep me up please!!
ill rep you to

 

[BatistrioFlyPunt]

What changed TNA forever was being the company that every has-been goes to. They can't do much more with TNA in my opinion. It wouldn't surprise me if they begged Shawn Michaels to join TNA, it's just a matter of time. (If they already have excuse me for not knowing) They have done everything from copying the ring, to the "superstars" they have.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

i agree tna need to make new storylines and that the jarret nash sting thing is a bit weird but tna need you staff because the sercurity want to be superstars and al snow and the rest of the board all got involed when ecw invaded tna.

but tna make the same storylines but with twists to it all but they do need a different slogan now.

i think that tna needs to get rid of nash and sting and put jarret as a perminate board member and him hulk hogan and eric bishchoff and dixie carter could make tna the place to be. ric flair should go and fourtune should be disabled. tnas feature is somoa joe aj styles matt morgan and the young guns and the legends should step down and do what jeff jarret says and pass down the torch to the feature of tna and tna is on the road to succeess.

rep me up please!!
ill rep you to

Awesome! You figured it all out, bud! Now if you could figure out how to freakin' spell, you'd be GOLDEN!

Anyway, question to the O.P. - Son, do you also bombard Marvel Comics with half-witted rants such as yours, about the complete impossibility of Captain Atom shrinking himself to the size of an atom? IT'S FAKE, SLAPNUTS! It's a story! Things like that have been going on for over twenty years and NOW people think they grew brains and figured this whole shit out. How come TNA's the only one who attracts such idiots that bash its product. Seriously, WWE has the most ******ed fans and TNA has the most ******ed haters.

Anyway, that's the whole story that's been going on in TNA for the past year. That's what they want to do. January 4th was a big change for the company. Instead of acting as if nothing happened, TNA took advantage of that. They took advantage of the different mind sets as to if this is good or not and did a storyline out of it. Some people like Hogan, others don't. Some want the old guys to go, the young guys want more power. IT'S A POWER STRUGGLE! Many different sides, different motives, each pulling their own way. What's so hard about that?

Seriously, sometimes I wonder if WWE's cheap ass storylines that don't revovle around anything turned people's brains into a tiny pile of crap and now their minds reject anything that's a tad bit more complicated than one guy attacking another guy, or some guy wanting a belt and the other guy opposing him. If you don't get the storylines nowadays, then dude, I hope you didn't watch the Attitude Era.

I don't wanna tell you this...I fear for you...but once...in the Attitude Era...one guy threw another guy's belt in the river..and...and...and then it turned out that the belt he threw was not the original, it was a replica and then the other guy was real pissed off for losing his belt to the fishies and ran that assholes' car over with a monster truck! Did yer head explode yet? Complicated, isn't it? No? Well people fuckin' loved that Storyline!

It's not trigonometry, doofus, get over it and enjoy the product. If you can't, don't bitch about it, pre-tty sure won't change a thing, 'cause it's awesome.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

What changed TNA forever was being the company that every has-been goes to. They can't do much more with TNA in my opinion. It wouldn't surprise me if they begged Shawn Michaels to join TNA, it's just a matter of time. (If they already have excuse me for not knowing) They have done everything from copying the ring, to the "superstars" they have.

"Copying the ring". You mean, that four sided ring that EVERYONE is using? Yeah, I'm sure they took the idea from the WWE. Oh! Wait! They copy more! They use THEME SONGS! Holy shit! I remembered something else! Dude, they even let their guys wrestle with no shirts on!!!

Dude TNA's so lame, they even have a ramp. Just like the 'E. Psh. Losers.

 

[ABMorales787]

Let me ask. When TNA says a "big change is coming", the change in question happens, is it that it's not a big deal, or are you just not pleased with the results?

I see that whenever TNA does say a change will come and change the field, it does indeed come. Just not to a perceived good result. The first time, that announcement was made, it led to Kurt Angle debuting. It opened huge doors to TNA, didn't it? Kurt joining made TNA the "other major company". Allowing the big names of pro wrestling to have a choice.

Skip ahead to TNA's 2nd "big change" in 2007. It led to the 2 hour expansion of TNA iMPACT! When a company is growing, don't you think adding hours is a big deal?

Next was when TNA announced it was going into HD. They beat WWE to it. From a business point, it was huge as well as the company had it's eyes on going head to head with WWE. In a way, it was their first victory over WWE.

Then, in a time where TNA had all the cards it could play on field, they still lacked the mainstream acceptance needed to expand it's viewers. So TNA dug and found Hulk Hogan and Eric Bicshoff. Effectively adding mainstream appeal with Hulk Hogan around (and badly attempted to continue with Bubba The Love Sponge). And Bicshoff brought a production company with him. Effectively creating "TNA REACTiON". Not to mention, the additions of major free agents in Mr. Anderson, Jeff Hardy and Rob Van Dam. While TNA is still trying to click with this change, it can't be denied that it indeed change TNA massively.

Now we hear a new "change" is coming. One that seems to be "progressive". It includes the possibility of iMPACT! permanently staying live. In my eyes, TNA may be taken on the road in February following it's annual "Maximum iMPACT!" tour. However, with the track record, I'd say there's a high chance of happening.

When TNA says "it will change forever", it indeed does happen. Just not to the best of reactions or results. People hold the standard higher than it already is and expect "millions instead of thousands".

 

[Zeven_Zion]

How about letting people share there opinions, instead of ripping them apart? I mean why not right?

I'm not stopping you from sharing your oppinion. I'm just shitting on it because it's stupid and uncalled for. It's illogical criticism and I hate it. THAT'S my opinion. Please let my opinion alone. Whaaaa...Whaaaa....

Anyway, like the poster above me said, when Dixie or whoever says "change" people immediately freak the fuck out and think that TNA's going to magically pull out a 5.0 rating out their ass and ruin WWE forever. Rip on TNA all you want, but this company is showing NOTHING but progress. The way it's looking now, they're about to go Live, permanently. Apparently they have something planned. I don't know what it is, I'll know in the future.

So far, TNA never disappointed me with any of their "surprises". It wasn't always what I expected ( which is a good thing ), it wasn't huge, but it was a pleasant change nontheless. This is a company with a small budget ( until Mr.Carter says differently and pours some hard cash into this baby ), what they do now is a miracle. They obviously put on a better product than WWE. WWE fans, be pissed all you want, it's the truth. You get the ratings, the production, the pay-per-view buys, the big arenas ( with dead crowds ), we get the quality wrestling. That's all good with me. Enjoy your numbers.