Where does TNA go from here on out?

[SpecialFNK]

the fall of WCW was not just the product. there were multiple factors in what caused WCW to fall. Ted Turner wasn't the owner when AOL and Time Warner merged.
there is an interesting DVD. The Rise and Fall of WCW.
it wasn't really Bischoff that killed WCW. Nash had a part as he was a booker for a time. the DVD also explains part of what was terrible, was Vince Russo. funny, he's in TNA.
Bischoff himself even wanted to buy WCW, but it went to McMahon instead.

watching the DVD, I'm surprised Hogan and Russo are working together in TNA. after Russo made Jarrett lay down in the ring for Hogan.

I don't think one can say because TNA seems to be becoming similar to WCW that that means it will also end up out of business.

 

[mrbooker]

I agree that Hardy deserves a chance to run...but Hogan and Bischoff need to stand down. This "they" angle was overdone and it underproduced. Something I've gotten used to with TNA. The sad thing is, they have great athletes in place and won't use them properly. Styles should be "the guy." You asked for ideas, here they come.


1. Styles should be the new (without the robes) Ric Flair of TNA so to speak. What I mean is he needs to hold the belt most often. Maybe a flashier Harley Race would be a better way of saying it. He should be the guy everyone is chasing after for the world title.

2. Samoa Joe should be his Ric Flair or Dusty Rhodes meaning they should build a longtime feud storyline around the two of them.

1a. This feud should include multiple title changes between the 2, and should include straight up cage matches with no run-ins, gimmicks, or Sting in the rafters.

3. Beer Money (James Storm and Robert Roode) should be your seemingly unbeatable world tag champs. They should be involved in a protracted feud with MCMG a la The Midnight Rockers v. Buddy Rose and Doug Sommers. Lots of blood spilled, foot on the ropes wins for Beer Money and the young guns who come up just short but eventually take the tag titles at the next BFG, if not the next after that.

4. Abyss needs an opponent who appears to "scare" him. Maybe the re-emergence of James Mitchell who brings a new "beast" with him to even the score with Abyss. This one gets bloody with weapons. Once Abyss finally defeats this guy at a a PPV in a bloody encounter, he is blindsided as he celebrates by someone unexpected who has always "hated" him and what he stood for. (a la Ric Flair hates ECW and stuntmen right?)

5. A lightweight title instead of the X division. Create a division that doesn't need a gimmick like hanging off of cables to crown its champion. Let the likes of Williams, Lethal, Gen Me, MCMG, and the like battle it out over the title.

6. Build characters instead of rehashing old ones. Time for Flair, Sting, Nash, Foley, Hogan, and Bischoff to step aside and let it be about the wrestling and not the swerves. The ONLY reason WCW went the way of swerves was out of sheer desperation to stay relevant and it led to their downfall. Terrible booking, VERY unrealistic storylines like the Goldberg "Streak" and Sting fighting off a dozen guys by himself spelled the end for them.

Ditch the ladies division and start over. If you want eye candy, then produce that. If you want wrestlers, then produce that. Clearly, they aren't good at trying to do both. There's a reason WWE has given up on ladies wrestling and opted for bikini models giggling around in tights.

These are just a few for starters. I could go on if you like.

Thats terrible we have seen Aj vs Joe a shit load of times already i kno itwas for the x division title but still its has been done, Beer Money vs MCMG it has been done already

the x division uses the ultimate x match sparringly

Jeff hardy is the only non tna original that holds a title, AJ, MCMG, lethal.

TNA had built its own stars and the show is what you make of it BFG was an excellent PPV as far as match quality, of u choose to pay attention to flair hogan etc, thats ur choice the match quality is their.

Are you seriously knocking the two most famous things on WCW with goldberg and sting. People would always argue that Goldberg was unstoppable puttng fantasy matchups like goldber vs austin and goldberg vs rock. Sting is a wretling mega star who carried a weapon it was very realistic, one of the top 5 most dominating wrestlers in your company for many years, finds his dark side, and starts weilding a weapon as good as he wrestles .

your knocking that but you think a feud that has aleady been done before and didnt draw with AJ vs Joe should be the at forefornt of TNA. Thats hilarious, and unrealistic

atleast hardy has a fan base and can draw, AS A CHAMPION he did it in wwe he will do it in TNA and he proved with both angle matches he can go, and he is one of the few guys TNA has that has a name, an fanbase and isnt old as hell

 

[Brian in Austin]

the fall of WCW was not just the product. there were multiple factors in what caused WCW to fall. Ted Turner wasn't the owner when AOL and Time Warner merged.
there is an interesting DVD. The Rise and Fall of WCW.
it wasn't really Bischoff that killed WCW. Nash had a part as he was a booker for a time. the DVD also explains part of what was terrible, was Vince Russo. funny, he's in TNA.
Bischoff himself even wanted to buy WCW, but it went to McMahon instead.

watching the DVD, I'm surprised Hogan and Russo are working together in TNA. after Russo made Jarrett lay down in the ring for Hogan.

I don't think one can say because TNA seems to be becoming similar to WCW that that means it will also end up out of business.

It most certainly was the product that killed WCW. In business, the reason you fail or succeed is the product. Now it might be the presentation of that product, it might be the price of that product, or the availability of that product, but in tv entertainment, it's always about the product. You mentioned Nash being a booker as part of the problem but it wasn't the product. Well forgive me, but doesn't a booker book "the product?"

You mentioned Bischoff being part of it along with Russo, but didn't they both help "produce" that product?

You mentioned the AOL/Timewarner deal being part of it, but didn't they "pay" that product? In this case it was ALL about the product. From payroll all the way to the ratings, it as ALL about the product.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

First off I would like to say that even though They was a little predictable, I think turning Jeff Hardy made the whole thing work and I hope they do a good job with making hardy a top heel.

Since Hardy was not as big as Hogan when he turned heel its not nearly as big as a deal as it was with hogan, but he was one of the top faces of the last 3 years and was probably the 1 guy I didn't see turning heel so it works. I personally don't think Jeff can pull of being a top heel, he isn't dirty enough, his mic work isn't good enough to pull it off, and mostly I don't know if I buy him as a heel, I just don't feel it. I certainly am compelled by how his heel turn/title reign works out and I am not crucifying him yet, but he has his work cut out for him if he's gonna pull it off.

Its hard to take something like this and make it fresh so most people want to see it, but if it will work they have to realize that Hardy has to be the leader of the group, not Hogan, Jarrett or Bischoff. All those 3 guys being heels has been played to death, Hardy being a heel is fresh so he MUST be the centerpiece and cannot take a backseat to the names previously mentioned. Hogan and Jarrett should be mouth pieces and mentors who take hardy under their wing, but they should never overshadow Jeff Hardy, if that happens this thing will turn stale and be finished and all the previous months of work building up to this will have been for nothing.

 

[Brian in Austin]

Thats terrible we have seen Aj vs Joe a shit load of times already i kno itwas for the x division title but still its has been done, Beer Money vs MCMG it has been done already

the x division uses the ultimate x match sparringly

Jeff hardy is the only non tna original that holds a title, AJ, MCMG, lethal.

TNA had built its own stars and the show is what you make of it BFG was an excellent PPV as far as match quality, of u choose to pay attention to flair hogan etc, thats ur choice the match quality is their.

Are you seriously knocking the two most famous things on WCW with goldberg and sting. People would always argue that Goldberg was unstoppable puttng fantasy matchups like goldber vs austin and goldberg vs rock. Sting is a wretling mega star who carried a weapon it was very realistic, one of the top 5 most dominating wrestlers in your company for many years, finds his dark side, and starts weilding a weapon as good as he wrestles .

your knocking that but you think a feud that has aleady been done before and didnt draw with AJ vs Joe should be the at forefornt of TNA. Thats hilarious, and unrealistic

atleast hardy has a fan base and can draw, AS A CHAMPION he did it in wwe he will do it in TNA and he proved with both angle matches he can go, and he is one of the few guys TNA has that has a name, an fanbase and isnt old as hell

The AJ/Joe feud didn't draw because no one knew who they were. It wasn't because of lack of talent or entertainment value. Then they made a gimmick out of the triple threat deal with Christopher Daniels, AJ, and Joe and it quickly lost its luster as they showed Joe as this guy just destroying 2 smaller ill equipped opponents instead of making it the three of them going after the same goal, but in seperate matches. It could have worked much better, but as they like to do, TNA overthought it, overbooked it, and ruined it quickly. Which is what they always do. Kill a good storyline as quickly as possible by getting the quick pop, then overdo it with overbooking to a gimmick match.

Again, just as Jericho likes to say, good storylines play out over months, not weeks. They thread in real life drama with the fantasy of pro wrestling. TNA doesn't get that. Then they take Joe off tv with the whole "kidnapping" angle, never to reveal what THAT was about. He gets hot over the use of his character, so they put him back on tv after they "suspended" him for speaking out and give him something to do. Wow! 2nd fiddle to Jeff Jarrett only to get swerved AGAIN! Remember when he and Nash split? Or when Sting double crossed him against Booker T? The guy is the doormat of TNA yet one of the most talented for his size.

On the issues of MCMG and Beer Money it's another one they overbooked. The whole best of 5 is a perfect example. No, don't draw that one out over months. No, don't swap the belts back and forth a few times in great matches, cage matches, and the like. Noo....make it a quick 5 match guantlet, get some quick ratings with 4 of your best workers, then bury 2 of them in a useless, pointless, waste of time in a faction they don't need wrestling stuntmen. Yeah...great booking.

This gets me to Jeff Hardy. A 3 time loser with WWE's wellness policy, bolts to TNA to keep a paycheck coming in to feed his drug habit. What happens? He gets busted AGAIN with the junk in HIS HOUSE!!!!! Duhhh!!! It's what drug addicts do! They do drugs! Most keep doing drugs! You really believe in this guy? I don't! He's a loser, drug addict. Same with Van Dam, but at least he admits his so-called medicinal use of marijuana. Yet, they glorify him as "the whole f'n show!" Yeah..that's what I would do with my company. Have drug addicts as my two top guys! Smart!

The reason Jarrett drew in WWE was because the WWE is a cash cow. Vince knows how to MAKE MONEY, unlike those running the little engine that can't!

 

[shattered dreams]

I read where Kurt Angle seemed to be legitamately pissed, and was done with TNA because of the BS politics... Or is it a swerve, and will come back in a month with his own group headed by Dixie?

I think the quotes were from twitter and they looked like locks for fake works to me to fit in with the storyline of angle being pissed at Hogan etc.

On Nash I have to wonder why they would have him jacknife Joe and get the pin if he was leaving for good the next day and the others had to carry the story going forward.

I agree with those saying the unpredictability of the Jeff Hardy turn made it all work. Maybe it was not earth shattering but why should it be? There are a lot of unanswered questions about where people's and group's alliances lay and this makes for some good tv as they explain the story and move forward. I think picking sides and explaining the management breakdown is where TNA goes from here. I think the swerve continues to get more interesting in coming weeks and it was smart to not try and do too much at once just to get a big one time reaction.

 

[Brian in Austin]

I think the quotes were from twitter and they looked like locks for fake works to me to fit in with the storyline of angle being pissed at Hogan etc.

On Nash I have to wonder why they would have him jacknife Joe and get the pin if he was leaving for good the next day and the others had to carry the story going forward.

I agree with those saying the unpredictability of the Jeff Hardy turn made it all work. Maybe it was not earth shattering but why should it be? There are a lot of unanswered questions about where people's and group's alliances lay and this makes for some good tv as they explain the story and move forward. I think picking sides and explaining the management breakdown is where TNA goes from here. I think the swerve continues to get more interesting in coming weeks and it was smart to not try and do too much at once just to get a big one time reaction.

I agree that the unpredictability CAN work for TNA, but it won't. They will bungle it like they have everything else. And why? Look who's in charge. The same guys who destroyed WCW. Have they learned from history? By the looks of the names they've brought in...no! On top of that they've hand-picked a drug addict who might wind up in jail for real as their champ! Not smart and not good business! Why not put the strap on Anderson or Angle? Oh...the IWC expects that outcome so let's show them how stupid they are! Brilliant! Start a fight with anonymous people on internet sites to prove a point! Great business model!!!! It never ceases to amaze me how easily someone can take a good thing and absolutely ruin it!

 

[SpecialFNK]

maybe I didn't explain it right or use the right words. maybe product isn't what I mean. I don't think it was the wrestlers fault that WCW went under.
Nash was allowed to become a booker, while he was still wrestling. it was Nash who booked himself to end the streak of Goldberg and win the championship. Nash was champion, Hogan returned. Nash vs Hogan, Nash layed down to let Hogan become champion.
it was also Jeff Jarrett who thought he was king shit and could draw more than Hogan. it was Russo that made a ridiculous story line like having David Arquette win the championship.

Time Warner merged with AOL. wrestling was only part of what Time Warner had and after the merge AOL didn't have interest in the wrestling business.

those are just some of the things I saw on the DVD.

I don't think people should just assume that just because this story line has basically been done that it can't again be successful. there is a chance that TNA could write this incorrectly and have it not work well, but there is also a chance that TNA could write this well and have it be huge.

just because someone like Hardy has been in legal trouble with drugs doesn't mean he can't have a huge impact in wrestling as a heel. A LOT of people in the demographic TNA is likely going for does something like weed. take a poll among high school males and I bet a large % of them get high.
Hardy is one of the top selling wrestles in any promotion. he makes money.

it's a little too early yet to tell where things can go from here. there is a lot of good potential.

 

[wushady]

I don't think Jeff Hardy was the right choice to become champion. What happens if he goes to prison? Aside from that I doubt he will be a good heel. He's not very talented on the mic as a face. I don't think his heel promos will be any better. I have a feeling his title reign will be even more lackluster than RVD's. In my opinion he will be over shadowed by the rest of "they". Mainly by Hogan and Bischoff. Who take a backseat to no one.

As far as "they" that had to be the biggest let down in wrestling since Vince McMahon was revealed as the higher power ten plus years ago. Only the blindest TNA marks are happy about this. Every reformation of the NWO or anything similar to it has failed. As I'm sure this will. The whole management vs management angle as been done to death.

Fortune has been built up for the last several months as the top heel stable. I don't see how this will work. If they combine the two factions that just waste all the time and effort of building fortune.

 

[shattered dreams]

I agree that the unpredictability CAN work for TNA, but it won't. They will bungle it like they have everything else. And why? Look who's in charge.

The its TNA defense, the go to move of those who cannot think of something that I dunno actually proves their "point."

The same guys who destroyed WCW.

AOL/Time warner bought TNA?

Have they learned from history? By the looks of the names they've brought in...no!

Jeff Hardy, RVD, Anderson, Pope, Gen Me, Mickie James? Flair was in WWE a couple of years ago, were they not learning from history? Hogan beat Orton a few years ago, is WWE out of business?

On top of that they've hand-picked a drug addict who might wind up in jail for real as their champ!

You are a fucking idiot. You should really worry about your addiction to being an idiot before you start commenting on things you do not know half what you think you do about

Why not put the strap on Anderson or Angle? Oh...the IWC expects that outcome so let's show them how stupid they are! Brilliant! Start a fight with anonymous people on internet sites to prove a point! Great business model!!!! It never ceases to amaze me how easily someone can take a good thing and absolutely ruin it!

Start a fight with anonymous people? What are you smoking? TNA does not actively argue with people on the IWC. They merely take these people's reliance on shaky at best ideas as facts, like Jeff Hardy is not getting the title because he is going to jail and/or pretty much everything else in your post, and uses it to their advantage to keep things unpredictable. It is good business because it has been often shown that the wrestling audience wants unpredictability most. It never ceases to amaze me how stupid some people can be by relying on IWC reports as gospel in leu of common sense and combining this foolish practice with biased attempts at forced negativity.

 

[Brian in Austin]

maybe I didn't explain it right or use the right words. maybe product isn't what I mean. I don't think it was the wrestlers fault that WCW went under.
Nash was allowed to become a booker, while he was still wrestling. it was Nash who booked himself to end the streak of Goldberg and win the championship. Nash was champion, Hogan returned. Nash vs Hogan, Nash layed down to let Hogan become champion.
it was also Jeff Jarrett who thought he was king shit and could draw more than Hogan. it was Russo that made a ridiculous story line like having David Arquette win the championship.

Time Warner merged with AOL. wrestling was only part of what Time Warner had and after the merge AOL didn't have interest in the wrestling business.

those are just some of the things I saw on the DVD.

I don't think people should just assume that just because this story line has basically been done that it can't again be successful. there is a chance that TNA could write this incorrectly and have it not work well, but there is also a chance that TNA could write this well and have it be huge.

just because someone like Hardy has been in legal trouble with drugs doesn't mean he can't have a huge impact in wrestling as a heel. A LOT of people in the demographic TNA is likely going for does something like weed. take a poll among high school males and I bet a large % of them get high.
Hardy is one of the top selling wrestles in any promotion. he makes money.

it's a little too early yet to tell where things can go from here. there is a lot of good potential.

Forgive me for asking it this way, but are you saying that TNA might actually be targeting young drug users? And you think this could "work" for TNA? Really? So guys toasting brain cells on a daily basis are now your target demographic? Wow! is all I can really say to that.

Aside from that, whether booking, bookers, bad contracts, or anything else, ultimately the product did WCW in. Yes, for a time the NWO angle worked. Then it stopped working and WCW had no idea what to do next. So they kept on beating that drum.

Now I'm supposed to believe that the same idea repackaged 20 years later can work again? Forgive my skepticism. I don't! Again, who is going to carry this storyline forward?

Sting? Really? He's not able to do a 12 against one "Stinger" angle anymore. Nash? He's allegedly retiring and even if not, he's got 2 bad wheels. Nope! Bischoff? How? Hardy? Only if he can stay out of prison. (There's a reason his people keep stalling on this court date thing and it ain't cause he's innocent.) Abyss? Right. He's going to carry around "Janice" and bludgeon everyone in his path. Yeah...that's beleivable.

I just think this is bad writing and horrible booking. Don't even get me started on ev2 and what they've turned Flair into.

 

[Brian in Austin]

The its TNA defense, the go to move of those who cannot think of something that I dunno actually proves their "point."



AOL/Time warner bought TNA?



Jeff Hardy, RVD, Anderson, Pope, Gen Me, Mickie James? Flair was in WWE a couple of years ago, were they not learning from history? Hogan beat Orton a few years ago, is WWE out of business?



You are a fucking idiot. You should really worry about your addiction to being an idiot before you start commenting on things you do not know half what you think you do about



Start a fight with anonymous people? What are you smoking? TNA does not actively argue with people on the IWC. They merely take these people's reliance on shaky at best ideas as facts, like Jeff Hardy is not getting the title because he is going to jail and/or pretty much everything else in your post, and uses it to their advantage to keep things unpredictable. It is good business because it has been often shown that the wrestling audience wants unpredictability most. It never ceases to amaze me how stupid some people can be by relying on IWC reports as gospel in leu of common sense and combining this foolish practice with biased attempts at forced negativity.

So you're saying that TNA is a successful product? Based on what exactly? Their PPV buyrates? Their tv ratings? Their gate at house shows? Do you know what it means to "paper the floor?" Do you believe 200 screaming fans in a bingo hall makes you successful? On what level? Against ROH? Of course they aren't trying to compete with the WWE because they can't! That much has been proven. Remember the 2010 Monday Night Wars revisited? Who won that one? Wait...don't tell me...TNA right? LoL Yeah...sure they did! So much so they went back to the comfort and safety of Thursday nights. Yep, nothing like running from your biggest competitor and showing you "won that one."

FTR I don't read dirt sheets or websites. I watch what happens. Like when Angle left WWE and claimed Vince screwed him. Vince claimed it was due to his drug addiction. Months later what happens? Angle admits being addicted to pain meds. Oops! Don't get me wrong. Vince is a tool! But then, aren't they all?

Hogan leaves WWE claiming Vince screwed him after HE personally made Vince a billionaire. First off, Vince isn't a billionaire. Nevermind that one for a moment, let's look at WCW, where the red and gold landed. How'd that one work out for billionaire Ted? Oops! Not so much. Results! Bad! Now Hogan takes his traveling circus, after watching his family disintegrate on national television mind you, to TNA. What's he done since being there? Well let's see. He's wrestled (well he tried to wrestle) again! Waste there. He's given his HOF ring as part of an angle to an alleged demented, twisted monster in Abyss, who then turns on him, only to find out that turn was an angle whereby Abyss and Hogan were really allies all along! So during this Hogan brings in RVD to be the "whole f'n show" only to secretly be working behind the scenes to have AByss create "Janice" so he can disembowel RVD. Who, as luck would have it, would have a miraculous recovery within weeks of nearly being KILLED mind you, having lost most of his blood to "Janice" to then defeat Abyss with no runs mind you, in a Monster's Ball match where no blood was spilled at all. Nevermind that allegedly Dixie Carter fired Abyss but only after BFG. I'm sure it will turn out that what she actually did was sign over power to Bischoff and Hogan. What a shock. Meanwhile Sting, Nash, and Pope were "hip" to all of this but only the 3 of them "knew". So while all this was going on, Jeff Jarrett was running interference for Hogan and Bischoff by taking weekly beatdowns from Sting who destroyed Jarrett a couple of pay per views ago, but JJ is back at 100%. Yeah...sure! Add to that once again Samoa Joe getting sucked in and screwed over by Jarrett again! The guy who is only for himself and is a human wrecking machine gets swerved by the country bumpkin once again. The man "who founded TNA" as JJ loves to tell everyone every day. Like we didn't know that right?!

Look the product is just bad. They have good talent and it's buried behind old guys. Guys past my age who shouldn't be wrestling anymore, who are chewing up payroll and tv time. There's a reason their tv ratings are abysmal. Because their product sucks. I give them another year unless they find a buyer with deep pockets. If I'm Jarrett that's what I'm hoping for. Find a sucke...errr buyer and retire to the ranch in Tennessee.

 

[eatdapoopoo]

Hopefully TNA folds and ROH steps up.

TNA is beyond poo poo.

It is SHIT!!!

 

[shattered dreams]

So you're saying that TNA is a successful product? Based on what exactly? Their PPV buyrates? Their tv ratings? Their gate at house shows? Do you know what it means to "paper the floor?" Do you believe 200 screaming fans in a bingo hall makes you successful? On what level? Against ROH? Of course they aren't trying to compete with the WWE because they can't! That much has been proven. Remember the 2010 Monday Night Wars revisited? Who won that one? Wait...don't tell me...TNA right? LoL Yeah...sure they did! So much so they went back to the comfort and safety of Thursday nights. Yep, nothing like running from your biggest competitor and showing you "won that one."

If this is what you got from my post then you need to see a doctor for your brain trauma. Never said anything about TNA being a successful product and definitely did not bring up competing with wwe. I did point out why the way this angle was put together can be a good business practice, namely the unpredictability. TNA ratings have been working their way back up during this story and if people want answers to these questions then they could post their best rating ever in a non special show as early as this week.

FTR I don't read dirt sheets or websites.

Umm, seriously? What exactly do you think you are doing right now? Where does your working the IWC junk come from if you are not a part of it? Where did you get your jeff hardy "information"? At least try and make your biased weirdness remotely believable.

Hogan leaves WWE claiming Vince screwed him after HE personally made Vince a billionaire. First off, Vince isn't a billionaire. Nevermind that one for a moment, let's look at WCW, where the red and gold landed. How'd that one work out for billionaire Ted? Oops! Not so much. Results! Bad!

Yeah, Hogan really was killing WCW when he led it past WWF in the ratings.

Look the product is just bad. They have good talent and it's buried behind old guys. Guys past my age who shouldn't be wrestling anymore, who are chewing up payroll and tv time. There's a reason their tv ratings are abysmal. Because their product sucks. I give them another year unless they find a buyer with deep pockets. If I'm Jarrett that's what I'm hoping for. Find a sucke...errr buyer and retire to the ranch in Tennessee.

Do you think Jarrett owns TNA? Those "abysmal" ratings make them spikes highest rated show.

Why you even bothered to quote my post I have no idea. You basically just ranted a bunch of misguided shit that had nothing to do with anything.

 

[marker]

Where TNA will go now. Not sure, but I was thinking that it could be interesting if Bischoff betrayed Hogan. I think it hasn't been done before and I just cannot see Hogan in "they" right now. Before I used to think that Hogan heel turn was inevitable, but recently I was wondering what he is going to do as a heel and I cannot find a satisfactory answer.

For some strange reason I still think that TNA may be planning something regarding deception and they, because we still do not know what papers Dixie singed. I would not be surprised to find out that Bischoff double crossed everyone and have Dixie singed TNA control over solely to Easy E. Than there wouldn't be a need for Hogan and JJ, and Eric was revealed as some super heel.

 

[SpecialFNK]

I assume TNA target audience is males 18-? 30? I'm not saying TNA should seek out drug using viewers, nor do I think TNA is seeking out those type of people. just because Hardy has had issues with drugs, I fully doubt that TNA or a majority in their demographic are going to be upset or having any type of negative opinions towards them using Hardy. a lot of people in that demographic are Hardy fans. the proof is in how Hardy sells more merchandise than anyone else.

wrestling is ALWAYS reusing same/similar angles. Fortune=Four Horsemen. all these stable type groups have been done over and over and over and will continue to be done.

let's look at WCW, where the red and gold landed. How'd that one work out for billionaire Ted? Oops! Not so much. Results! Bad!

how did Hogan help WCW. bad? I laugh so hard. do you remember what happened back then? before Hogan and company went to WCW, WCW was nothing and there was no chance at competing with WWE. Hogan was signed by WCW and had a parade. his first match with flair he won the title. instant success for WCW.
what eventually over time happened I'm sure was what not was WCW wanted, but for a period WCW was bigger than WWE. seeing how no one would have expect that I would say that was success. at the time that was what Bischoff/ect wanted, to beat Vince in the ratings.
the DVD "The Rise and Fall of DVD" really is a good watch. not only explaining what all really happened to make WCW fall, but also what happened to make it rise.

TNA did make a mistake in trying to move to Monday nights, especially so soon after Hogan/Bischoff came in.
I don't think everything TNA does is gold. IMO they do make mistakes on angles/story lines/writing/ect, but it's not garbage.

 

[mrbooker]

Forgive me for asking it this way, but are you saying that TNA might actually be targeting young drug users? And you think this could "work" for TNA? Really? So guys toasting brain cells on a daily basis are now your target demographic? Wow! is all I can really say to that.

Aside from that, whether booking, bookers, bad contracts, or anything else, ultimately the product did WCW in. Yes, for a time the NWO angle worked. Then it stopped working and WCW had no idea what to do next. So they kept on beating that drum.

Now I'm supposed to believe that the same idea repackaged 20 years later can work again? Forgive my skepticism. I don't! Again, who is going to carry this storyline forward?

Sting? Really? He's not able to do a 12 against one "Stinger" angle anymore. Nash? He's allegedly retiring and even if not, he's got 2 bad wheels. Nope! Bischoff? How? Hardy? Only if he can stay out of prison. (There's a reason his people keep stalling on this court date thing and it ain't cause he's innocent.) Abyss? Right. He's going to carry around "Janice" and bludgeon everyone in his path. Yeah...that's beleivable.

I just think this is bad writing and horrible booking. Don't even get me started on ev2 and what they've turned Flair into.

First of all you have no sense Abyss carrying Janice bludgeoning everyone in his path isnt realistic, REALLY! is a guy who is played off as being dead, and gets his powers from an urn, and can shoot bolts of lightining and can get slamed by a powermove and sit directly up is realistic?????

Here is a fact for you since you sound like at 13 yearold who assumes he knows facts criminal court cases dont even go to trial for about two years after the crime, if the police enters a house its even longer because of all the proper steps that need to be looked at to make sure a warrant was uptained within the correct time frame and correct way, once it goes to trail it can go on for years. I have graduated from law school so get over yourself little boy. The reason things have been going on for so long is because despite hardy having drugs not all of them were uptained illegally and their is a possibility the police information wasnt uptained the correct way.

I get you want tna to emulate old school wrestling, with the whol harley race/ric flair comparision, tna is dumb for having a monster weild a weapon because its unrealistic, but a legend in wwe can claim is actually dead and shoot lighting, vince mcmaon can have a match agaisnt hbk and god, buried alive matches yea thats really realistic

Aj vs Joe would not draw it was done already on SPIKE TV neither one of them are hot at all right now Joe looks like a fool, after deception, and Joe is not world championship material. Kurt can draw,anderson can draw, Joe has never drawn unless he had kurt angle, cm punk, someone who is a high level star attached to him. those two cannont futher a feud with wch other for it to be interesting. I get it they can go when inside the ring. But guess what so could shelton benjamin vs danielson/daniel bryan I still wouldnt want that as my main draw.

Here is the best part millions and judging by your responses yourslef included did nothing but bitch like little girls about dixie carter it might actually result in here on air character bein killed off and now people like you want to bitch that its nwo. I see you had nothing to say about how this angle is not the NWO and you chose to focus on everythign else that doesnt matter, yes the nwo who had hogan, the two biggest bad asses in wrestling in hall and nash, ted dibiase, syxx, macho man, bagwell, norton, steiner, curt henning, the giant.... yes this faction of a hogan on crutches, eric bischoff, and jarret, hardy and abyss is JUST LIKE THE NWO!!!! its nothing like it the only similarity is bischoff having a power position as a heel. and you have a hogan on crutches. I get it you dont like the angle so you will tag it as nwo rehash 3000 but you couldnt be anymore wrong

 

[Brian in Austin]

First of all you have no sense Abyss carrying Janice bludgeoning everyone in his path isnt realistic, REALLY! is a guy who is played off as being dead, and gets his powers from an urn, and can shoot bolts of lightining and can get slamed by a powermove and sit directly up is realistic?????

Here is a fact for you since you sound like at 13 yearold who assumes he knows facts criminal court cases dont even go to trial for about two years after the crime, if the police enters a house its even longer because of all the proper steps that need to be looked at to make sure a warrant was uptained within the correct time frame and correct way, once it goes to trail it can go on for years. I have graduated from law school so get over yourself little boy. The reason things have been going on for so long is because despite hardy having drugs not all of them were uptained illegally and their is a possibility the police information wasnt uptained the correct way.

I get you want tna to emulate old school wrestling, with the whol harley race/ric flair comparision, tna is dumb for having a monster weild a weapon because its unrealistic, but a legend in wwe can claim is actually dead and shoot lighting, vince mcmaon can have a match agaisnt hbk and god, buried alive matches yea thats really realistic

Aj vs Joe would not draw it was done already on SPIKE TV neither one of them are hot at all right now Joe looks like a fool, after deception, and Joe is not world championship material. Kurt can draw,anderson can draw, Joe has never drawn unless he had kurt angle, cm punk, someone who is a high level star attached to him. those two cannont futher a feud with wch other for it to be interesting. I get it they can go when inside the ring. But guess what so could shelton benjamin vs danielson/daniel bryan I still wouldnt want that as my main draw.

Here is the best part millions and judging by your responses yourslef included did nothing but bitch like little girls about dixie carter it might actually result in here on air character bein killed off and now people like you want to bitch that its nwo. I see you had nothing to say about how this angle is not the NWO and you chose to focus on everythign else that doesnt matter, yes the nwo who had hogan, the two biggest bad asses in wrestling in hall and nash, ted dibiase, syxx, macho man, bagwell, norton, steiner, curt henning, the giant.... yes this faction of a hogan on crutches, eric bischoff, and jarret, hardy and abyss is JUST LIKE THE NWO!!!! its nothing like it the only similarity is bischoff having a power position as a heel. and you have a hogan on crutches. I get it you dont like the angle so you will tag it as nwo rehash 3000 but you couldnt be anymore wrong

First, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you didn't graduate from law school, as if you had, you wouldn't repeatedly misspell OBTAINED, by spelling it UPTAINED. Next, the police department would have had probable cause to enter the premises on top of a SIGNED search warrant. Signed by whom you ask? A JUDGE!!!! Then the search warrant will spell out where they can search once inside the premises. Perhaps it's limited to living space only. Perhaps it gives them latitude to search the entire property, to include basement, backyard, sheds, etc. The fact remains that the police department recovered evidence.

Now as to the timing of the court hearings. From day one, his court appearances have been pushed back. So that means his hearing was on the docket for the day, but somehow was delayed repeatedly. This tells me his lawyer is stalling or the police department is stalling. Depending on whose asking for the continuation and why. Here's the kicker. If it were the police and IF Jeff is indeed innocent as he claims, why wouldn't JEFF HARDY come out and say that the police are stalling because they lack the evidence to convict me and they are on a fishing expedition. Set that one aside for a moment. No judge with any credibility would allow the police to do such a thing. Remember, in this country we are afforded the right to face our accuser, and have the evidence presented in a timely fashion so that we might mount a defense. Not only that, but a defendant is afforded the opportunity to examine the evidence against him so as to mount said defense.

Jeff has been very very quiet on this since day one. Tells me he's got something to hide and he's stalling hoping it will go away. It won't! Couple of things the government loves to do. Bust high profile drug pushers and more importantly drug pushers who are selling a product they aren't paying taxes on! Tax evasion might be the one that really seals the deal on this one. Don't cross the Fed Jeff. You'll lose!

Bottom line. TNA has now hitched their wagon to a guy who failed 3 drug tests in WWE. He's put on the pounds since he came to TNA. Connection? Hmm...then he gets busted for drugs AGAIN! People in WWE after he left said he was still fighting those demons! (IIRC)

Good luck to TNA and Jeff Hardy. All signs point to them needing it.

 

[Brian in Austin]

First of all you have no sense Abyss carrying Janice bludgeoning everyone in his path isnt realistic, REALLY! is a guy who is played off as being dead, and gets his powers from an urn, and can shoot bolts of lightining and can get slamed by a powermove and sit directly up is realistic?????

Here is a fact for you since you sound like at 13 yearold who assumes he knows facts criminal court cases dont even go to trial for about two years after the crime, if the police enters a house its even longer because of all the proper steps that need to be looked at to make sure a warrant was uptained within the correct time frame and correct way, once it goes to trail it can go on for years. I have graduated from law school so get over yourself little boy. The reason things have been going on for so long is because despite hardy having drugs not all of them were uptained illegally and their is a possibility the police information wasnt uptained the correct way.

I get you want tna to emulate old school wrestling, with the whol harley race/ric flair comparision, tna is dumb for having a monster weild a weapon because its unrealistic, but a legend in wwe can claim is actually dead and shoot lighting, vince mcmaon can have a match agaisnt hbk and god, buried alive matches yea thats really realistic

Aj vs Joe would not draw it was done already on SPIKE TV neither one of them are hot at all right now Joe looks like a fool, after deception, and Joe is not world championship material. Kurt can draw,anderson can draw, Joe has never drawn unless he had kurt angle, cm punk, someone who is a high level star attached to him. those two cannont futher a feud with wch other for it to be interesting. I get it they can go when inside the ring. But guess what so could shelton benjamin vs danielson/daniel bryan I still wouldnt want that as my main draw.

Here is the best part millions and judging by your responses yourslef included did nothing but bitch like little girls about dixie carter it might actually result in here on air character bein killed off and now people like you want to bitch that its nwo. I see you had nothing to say about how this angle is not the NWO and you chose to focus on everythign else that doesnt matter, yes the nwo who had hogan, the two biggest bad asses in wrestling in hall and nash, ted dibiase, syxx, macho man, bagwell, norton, steiner, curt henning, the giant.... yes this faction of a hogan on crutches, eric bischoff, and jarret, hardy and abyss is JUST LIKE THE NWO!!!! its nothing like it the only similarity is bischoff having a power position as a heel. and you have a hogan on crutches. I get it you dont like the angle so you will tag it as nwo rehash 3000 but you couldnt be anymore wrong

AJ/Joe didn't draw because at the time because most mainstream fans had either never heard of them, or knew very little about their brand or their feud.
Again, building a brand takes time. It takes patience. TV executives today want instant bang for their buck. Organizations like WWE and TNA don't have to capture the hardcore fans as they already have those fans hooked. They are looking for the "peel offs", the fans who are channel surfing on Monday night and Thursday night looking for "man" sized tv. It's why Vince went Mainstream with NBC back in the day with Saturday Night's Main Event. He felt like if he could capture another what 5% of the market that he was golden. Guess what? He won that one! It's why Raw is still on today. It's why he went XFL. He knew it was a loss leader, but he wanted the recognition for his brand, WWE. (may still have been WWF at the time?) Anyway, it's about good business. You do what makes good business sense. For TNA it SHOULD HAVE BEEN about building a brand. Giving fans something different to look at. With AJ/Joe they had that chance and they blew it. They made Styles look weak and Joe look unbeatable. Every once in a while the unstoppable force has to lose in this business or you turn off half your fanbase. It's why WWE has for years now traded off in PPV's. What I mean is this. One PPV the faces all win. The next one the heels all win. There are some exceptions like the Undertaker streak at Wrestlemania, or maybe a retirement match here and there, but watch. Happens every year now. TNA doesn't know what the heck to do from one PPV to the next because they have too many of them. Someone at TNA convinced those in charge that PPV was the way to finance their growth. PPV buys were probably meant to be the underpinning for their growth, but guess what? No one bought in! Why? No brand awareness. No patience. No one knew who these guys were outside of Jarrett. And everyone knew Jarrett would end each match with a guitar shot. No creativity! No forward thinking. Again, build the brand. Don't make it predictable, which is what it is right now!

 

[Brian in Austin]

First of all you have no sense Abyss carrying Janice bludgeoning everyone in his path isnt realistic, REALLY! is a guy who is played off as being dead, and gets his powers from an urn, and can shoot bolts of lightining and can get slamed by a powermove and sit directly up is realistic?????

Here is a fact for you since you sound like at 13 yearold who assumes he knows facts criminal court cases dont even go to trial for about two years after the crime, if the police enters a house its even longer because of all the proper steps that need to be looked at to make sure a warrant was uptained within the correct time frame and correct way, once it goes to trail it can go on for years. I have graduated from law school so get over yourself little boy. The reason things have been going on for so long is because despite hardy having drugs not all of them were uptained illegally and their is a possibility the police information wasnt uptained the correct way.

I get you want tna to emulate old school wrestling, with the whol harley race/ric flair comparision, tna is dumb for having a monster weild a weapon because its unrealistic, but a legend in wwe can claim is actually dead and shoot lighting, vince mcmaon can have a match agaisnt hbk and god, buried alive matches yea thats really realistic

Aj vs Joe would not draw it was done already on SPIKE TV neither one of them are hot at all right now Joe looks like a fool, after deception, and Joe is not world championship material. Kurt can draw,anderson can draw, Joe has never drawn unless he had kurt angle, cm punk, someone who is a high level star attached to him. those two cannont futher a feud with wch other for it to be interesting. I get it they can go when inside the ring. But guess what so could shelton benjamin vs danielson/daniel bryan I still wouldnt want that as my main draw.

Here is the best part millions and judging by your responses yourslef included did nothing but bitch like little girls about dixie carter it might actually result in here on air character bein killed off and now people like you want to bitch that its nwo. I see you had nothing to say about how this angle is not the NWO and you chose to focus on everythign else that doesnt matter, yes the nwo who had hogan, the two biggest bad asses in wrestling in hall and nash, ted dibiase, syxx, macho man, bagwell, norton, steiner, curt henning, the giant.... yes this faction of a hogan on crutches, eric bischoff, and jarret, hardy and abyss is JUST LIKE THE NWO!!!! its nothing like it the only similarity is bischoff having a power position as a heel. and you have a hogan on crutches. I get it you dont like the angle so you will tag it as nwo rehash 3000 but you couldnt be anymore wrong

I'm complaining because the product could be better. But it's not! And those in charge don't think there's anything wrong. Meanwhile, guys like you are braying about who worked who like that means anything. It doesn't. The end product is all that matters, and it's bad!

 

[johnbragg]

First of all you have no sense Abyss carrying Janice bludgeoning everyone in his path isnt realistic, REALLY! is a guy who is played off as being dead, and gets his powers from an urn, and can shoot bolts of lightining and can get slamed by a powermove and sit directly up is realistic?????

Aaaaand does anyone else think that this might have something to do with Smackdown pulling some of it's lowest ratings EVER? Put the Undertaker's urn on a show where Jack Swagger is hanging out with a Muppet and we see Cody Rhodes put on deodorant and brush his teeth for 2-4 minutes, and you're headed for a 1.5 rating pretty soon. (NOTE: For WWE, a 1.5 rating is a BAD thing)

Likewise, I submit that Abyss and Janice are bad for TNA's credibility and for their audience share.

Whether or not Mr. Booker is a lawyer, court cases take time. Even if Jeff Hardy obtained all those drugs legitimately with a legitimate, ironclad prescription, he is well advised to keep delaying the trial. There is a whole lot of proceduralness to go through, and standard defense lawyer practice is to delay things for as long as possible and hope that something goes wrong for the prosecution. A big reason that prosecutors plea bargain is so that they can avoid the lengthy pretrial trial and sentencing process. If Jeff Hardy is innocent, he won't be any less innocent in two months or six months or a year. If it goes to trial, even if Hardy is innocent, juries fuck up. They might just convict him for being a douchebag druggie with an assload of drugs. Or they might "compromise" with each other and convict on only one or two of eight or ten counts.

 

[nicho322]

i agree. the whole storyline of having jeff hardy turn heel will do nothing but backfire on TNA in the ratings department. I'm sure that i'm speaking for alot of us when i say that i know alot of people who got into watching TNA just because jeff hardy was on it.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

i actually view this as an opportunity to do the nwo angle correctly.yeah we all think that the first nwo was a great storyline.but it didnt have a great ending to be frank.wcw never defeated nwo.it just kinda disbanded.tna has a chance to defeat hogan's crew thus creating history

id like this angle to start out with some interesting screwy finishes.like say you have hardy vs rvd at the next ppv.make it a ladder match and show us something that hogan and bischoff screwed around with the ladders.next up is anderson.at the ppv after turning point let it be anderson vs hardy.at that show just as anderson is about to hit hardy with his finisher let hogan turn the lights off and say "show's over folks"and help hardy retain

slowly dixie sees her empire crumbling around her and so she sends her old guard consisting of angle,sting and rvd to finish off nwo.but they end up coming short.just then let a group of young babyfaces(dinero,anderson,styles) join hands and come in as tna's last hope and let them finish off nwo.

that way it benefits everyone involved

 

[Brian in Austin]

Aaaaand does anyone else think that this might have something to do with Smackdown pulling some of it's lowest ratings EVER? Put the Undertaker's urn on a show where Jack Swagger is hanging out with a Muppet and we see Cody Rhodes put on deodorant and brush his teeth for 2-4 minutes, and you're headed for a 1.5 rating pretty soon. (NOTE: For WWE, a 1.5 rating is a BAD thing)

Likewise, I submit that Abyss and Janice are bad for TNA's credibility and for their audience share.

Whether or not Mr. Booker is a lawyer, court cases take time. Even if Jeff Hardy obtained all those drugs legitimately with a legitimate, ironclad prescription, he is well advised to keep delaying the trial. There is a whole lot of proceduralness to go through, and standard defense lawyer practice is to delay things for as long as possible and hope that something goes wrong for the prosecution. A big reason that prosecutors plea bargain is so that they can avoid the lengthy pretrial trial and sentencing process. If Jeff Hardy is innocent, he won't be any less innocent in two months or six months or a year. If it goes to trial, even if Hardy is innocent, juries fuck up. They might just convict him for being a douchebag druggie with an assload of drugs. Or they might "compromise" with each other and convict on only one or two of eight or ten counts.

I meant to say this to another poster, but since you reposted his quote, I'll go with it now. The WWE doesn't sell Undertaker as someone who is dead but keeps coming back to life. They make reference to him being "The Dead Man" but it's a nickname. It's not what he does. Neither does he shoot lightning bolts out of his fingers, ears, nose, or butt. It's pyro. It's special effects. I'm pretty confident everyone gets that. But UT is top dog for WWE next to Cena. He's a "made man" if you will. So he gets time off when he needs it, I'm sure is booking his own matches now and probably has been for a long time. Or he's at least signing off on them or turning them down as he sees fit for his character. But he's been off air more than on air the last year. Point is, he's been around for so long that old schoolers will know who he is and what he's about. New fans won't. Young fans may not buy into his character like they do others like Cena.

 

[mrbooker]

First, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you didn't graduate from law school, as if you had, you wouldn't repeatedly misspell OBTAINED, by spelling it UPTAINED. Next, the police department would have had probable cause to enter the premises on top of a SIGNED search warrant. Signed by whom you ask? A JUDGE!!!! Then the search warrant will spell out where they can search once inside the premises. Perhaps it's limited to living space only. Perhaps it gives them latitude to search the entire property, to include basement, backyard, sheds, etc. The fact remains that the police department recovered evidence.

Now as to the timing of the court hearings. From day one, his court appearances have been pushed back. So that means his hearing was on the docket for the day, but somehow was delayed repeatedly. This tells me his lawyer is stalling or the police department is stalling. Depending on whose asking for the continuation and why. Here's the kicker. If it were the police and IF Jeff is indeed innocent as he claims, why wouldn't JEFF HARDY come out and say that the police are stalling because they lack the evidence to convict me and they are on a fishing expedition. Set that one aside for a moment. No judge with any credibility would allow the police to do such a thing. Remember, in this country we are afforded the right to face our accuser, and have the evidence presented in a timely fashion so that we might mount a defense. Not only that, but a defendant is afforded the opportunity to examine the evidence against him so as to mount said defense.

Jeff has been very very quiet on this since day one. Tells me he's got something to hide and he's stalling hoping it will go away. It won't! Couple of things the government loves to do. Bust high profile drug pushers and more importantly drug pushers who are selling a product they aren't paying taxes on! Tax evasion might be the one that really seals the deal on this one. Don't cross the Fed Jeff. You'll lose!

Bottom line. TNA has now hitched their wagon to a guy who failed 3 drug tests in WWE. He's put on the pounds since he came to TNA. Connection? Hmm...then he gets busted for drugs AGAIN! People in WWE after he left said he was still fighting those demons! (IIRC)

Good luck to TNA and Jeff Hardy. All signs point to them needing it.

Actually smart one its a common practice that police departments do they enter the house without a warrant, lie about entering with a legit cause, and then get the warrnt from the judge in the morning as must judges sometimes will not issue warrants at ridiculous times. Trust! it happens and is oneof the biggest reason cases are overturned by anyone who was the money to have a decent definsve attorney