Savage was given a launching pad to start his career even with the loss. He was very impressive in the tournament. The reason they didn't have him win the tournament was because he had just come into the company. No one in the crowd wanted to see Savage win and a lot of them probably barely knew who he was. By having JYD win they killed two birds with one stone. Savage still looks great and it starts his push, and the crowd in attendance as well as those watching the WWE's first ever pay per view at home are able to leave happy.
The Wrestling Classic with KB
- Thread starter klunderbunker
- Start date
Savage was given a launching pad to start his career even with the loss. He was very impressive in the tournament. The reason they didn't have him win the tournament was because he had just come into the company. No one in the crowd wanted to see Savage win and a lot of them probably barely knew who he was. By having JYD win they killed two birds with one stone. Savage still looks great and it starts his push, and the crowd in attendance as well as those watching the WWE's first ever pay per view at home are able to leave happy.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
Who cares if they leave happy? The booking was flat out dumb. You make Savage look weak by not having him be able to beat JYD, who does nothing with the win. There's a reason this tournament is never mentioned on WWE TV: it meant nothing and it meant nothing because of who won it. He's an embarassment to wrestling now because he became nothing and Savage became a legend. No reason at all to give him the win here, period.
How the fuck did Savage look weak? He defeated three good opponents in Ivan Putski, Ricky Steamboat, and Dynamite Kid then he lost by count out to a fresh opponent who was coming off a bye. Saying Savage looked weak would be like saying CM Punk looked weak after losing to Regal during last years KOTR.
As far as the crowd leaving home happy not mattering, that statement is complete bullshit. This was the first ever WWE pay per view. Of course they wanted the fans to leave happy. This isn't today's WWE that we are talking about. JYD next to Hogan and maybe Andre was the most over face in the company. It makes perfect sense to have him win the tournament.
After winning the tournament JYD went on to some high profile tag matches on SNME teaming with the likes of Ricky Steamboat and Hulk Hogan. It's not like he disappeared from the face of the earth. Just because he didn't win a title after the tournament doesn't mean he did nothing with the win.
He was a friend of Hogan's. Of course he was going to do tag matches with him. This win did not catapult him to that. He was even doing that before this PPV aired. Doing something would have meant getting a meaningful 1-on-1 feud, and maybe catching some gold. He didn't. Savage did.
As a heel, it's OK for him to win, and piss off the fans. It happens all the time. No one is ever happy when a heel wins anything. Everyone was a mark then. They wanted the good guys to win, and the bad guys to lose. It would have done wonders for him to win and then go on to have the career he did.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
How did he look weak you ask? he gets backdropped over the ropes and can't get up to a ten count. I'd say that's pretty weak. Think about how much they had to cover for Dog there: he wins one match in three minutes, he wins another in 45 seconds without a referee, and he wins another by countout. Tell me, who deserves to get the win there? Who worked harder and gets the shaft for the night? That would be Savage. The difference with Regal and Punk is simple: Regal did something after he won and actually won some matches earlier in the night. Also the whole clean win aspect for Regal helps a lot.
No, it really doesn't make perfect sense. It made zero sense actually. Let's see: guy that's been lighting the world on fire and getting big pops vs. guy that can't go more than 5 minutes of a decent match. Let's see, who makes more sense here? yeah that's an easy one for me too.
Oh hey look out! He's wrestling in bullshit tag matches and then wrestling in filler on PPV! You know what Savage did after that? He won the IC Title and then had arguably the best match of all time. I'll take that over a boring tag with Hogan any day. JYD did nothing with the win. He did exactly the same boring stuff afterwards as he did beforehand. The win did nothing for his career.
No, it really doesn't make perfect sense. It made zero sense actually. Let's see: guy that's been lighting the world on fire and getting big pops vs. guy that can't go more than 5 minutes of a decent match. Let's see, who makes more sense here? yeah that's an easy one for me too.
Oh hey look out! He's wrestling in bullshit tag matches and then wrestling in filler on PPV! You know what Savage did after that? He won the IC Title and then had arguably the best match of all time. I'll take that over a boring tag with Hogan any day. JYD did nothing with the win. He did exactly the same boring stuff afterwards as he did beforehand. The win did nothing for his career.
I think you're missing Big Sexy's main point though KB. Yeah it's fair to say in hindsight that obviously Savage could have used the win more, but giving JYD the win really wasn't that bad of a booking decision. This was one of the very first wrestling PPVs available and JYD was very over with the fans, and an important part of that event was to send the fans at the arena and those watching on PPV home happy. You can't have your audience leaving the first wrestling PPV they've ever seen saying "That sucked, the guy I liked lost, I'm not going to buy anymore of these things!"
It made perfect sense at the time. It's not like this hurt Savage's career at all either.
JYD was still a bucket of shit though, that I believe we can all agree on. Well, all of us except for Dexter.
It made perfect sense at the time. It's not like this hurt Savage's career at all either.
JYD was still a bucket of shit though, that I believe we can all agree on. Well, all of us except for Dexter.
You just made my point for me. JYD wrestled a total of 3:45 and he beat a guy who had wrestled 3 matches, all of which went longer then any of JYD's matches. Once again Savage still ends up looking strong and the crowd gets to pop big for the JYD victory.
Lighting the world on fire? Savage had been in the company what 4 months? This was his first major appearance. It's not like he had been around for a year drawing huge heel heat all over the country.
That's what JYD was in the WWE for. To be insanely over and team with guys like Hogan. When the WWE signed him I don't think anyone was saying "Wow we have a future heavyweight champion on our hands." He was over and was the perfect choice to win this tournament considering the fact that it was the first EVER WWE pay per view. If this was some random pay per view in 1988 or some shit I'd agree with you, but for there first ever ppv you want the fans to have one of there favorite wrestlers win.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
Yes he lit the world on fire. Listen to the pops he's getting. The people are straight up responding to him. They know him, they know his reputation, they know what he can do in the ring. Think about it like this: apparently he was somethign special as he was given Liz and a major angle in all the managers trying to sign him, but he was also booked over guys like Santana, Steamboat and Orndorff to get to the finals. Yeah I'd say he was both pretty well known and the hottest thing in the company back then.
Guys, I'm going to tell you right now that you're seeing this card through today's eyes, NOT the eyes of 1985. Saying that a tournament like this should have been used to launch a guy's career and advance him toward a title run is an extremely fair assessment in today's wrestling industry.
At the time, though, the number of people to actually win titles in the WWF was very small. Let me repeat that: Very, very small. Most people who entered the WWF during those days would never touch championship gold, not even in the tag team ranks. Think about some of the incredible, legendary performers who would enter the WWF after dominating other federations around the world but never go on to win a title during that era or shortly thereafter: King Kong Bundy, Superfly Jimmy Snuka, Jake "The Snake" Roberts, Paul Orndorff. Even "Rowdy" Roddy Piper didn't win his first WWF titles until years later, well past his prime, and even those were something of "consolation" prize situations.
In all likelihood, JYD was given this win because he would never win a title in his entire stay in the WWF. It was basically a bragging right (so to speak) because he would never move past that plateau. It was to keep him happy, I suspect.
Meanwhile, Savage was coming into the company, being established as a real threat to the title scene. He was booked against a variety of great opponents, got the strong victories and only lost in the finals by count out -- and it was to JYD. Of course, NOW we know JYD never amounted to much after this, but at the TIME, he was massively popular and considered "a contender." You have to remember to look at the picture as it was in 1985, not as it is historically-speaking from the view-point of 2009.
It's not fair to judge things on how we know they went down after-the-fact. You have to see it as it MIGHT have been, given circumstances at the time. Then it makes the booking still terrible but at least slightly understandable.
At the time, though, the number of people to actually win titles in the WWF was very small. Let me repeat that: Very, very small. Most people who entered the WWF during those days would never touch championship gold, not even in the tag team ranks. Think about some of the incredible, legendary performers who would enter the WWF after dominating other federations around the world but never go on to win a title during that era or shortly thereafter: King Kong Bundy, Superfly Jimmy Snuka, Jake "The Snake" Roberts, Paul Orndorff. Even "Rowdy" Roddy Piper didn't win his first WWF titles until years later, well past his prime, and even those were something of "consolation" prize situations.
In all likelihood, JYD was given this win because he would never win a title in his entire stay in the WWF. It was basically a bragging right (so to speak) because he would never move past that plateau. It was to keep him happy, I suspect.
Meanwhile, Savage was coming into the company, being established as a real threat to the title scene. He was booked against a variety of great opponents, got the strong victories and only lost in the finals by count out -- and it was to JYD. Of course, NOW we know JYD never amounted to much after this, but at the TIME, he was massively popular and considered "a contender." You have to remember to look at the picture as it was in 1985, not as it is historically-speaking from the view-point of 2009.
It's not fair to judge things on how we know they went down after-the-fact. You have to see it as it MIGHT have been, given circumstances at the time. Then it makes the booking still terrible but at least slightly understandable.
I found this tape at a video store when I was about seven years old. Even then I knew it was a pretty bad show, but I loved it anyway. As a little kid I loved anything WWF unconditionally. I loved the tournament concept and seeing the brackets on the big board. It’s just too bad the matches were so short. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe this was a two hour event. It would have been much better with an extra hour. That way we could have gotten more time for matches like Davey Boy vs. Steamboat or Savage vs. Dynamite. Overall the show was pretty awful, but it was still fun for me as a kid.
KB I completely understand what you’re saying about JYD winning the tournament, but I think PEP3 is right. You have to look at this from a 1985 point of view. You may not like JYD, but he was incredibly over back then. He definitely had his weaknesses but the fans loved him anyway. His weaknesses were disguised with short matches. Meanwhile Savage did look good getting three victories. He was new at the time and this was a good way to showcase him. Big Sexy and X are right. It was important to send the fans home happy. Hell before 1997 there are only a handful of ppvs where the heel won the main event. That may not be important now, but remember this was the first ppv. You want the fans to fell good after it. Again, I completely understand your point and it makes sense. It just wasn’t as big a deal in 1985.
KB I completely understand what you’re saying about JYD winning the tournament, but I think PEP3 is right. You have to look at this from a 1985 point of view. You may not like JYD, but he was incredibly over back then. He definitely had his weaknesses but the fans loved him anyway. His weaknesses were disguised with short matches. Meanwhile Savage did look good getting three victories. He was new at the time and this was a good way to showcase him. Big Sexy and X are right. It was important to send the fans home happy. Hell before 1997 there are only a handful of ppvs where the heel won the main event. That may not be important now, but remember this was the first ppv. You want the fans to fell good after it. Again, I completely understand your point and it makes sense. It just wasn’t as big a deal in 1985.
tdmoon
Pre-Show Stalwart
"Vince, even if he screwed your daughter, get over it."
loling at OP implying he could "get over" somebody(one of his employees!)having sex with his underage daughter.
As for people being butthurt Savage took the loss and was made to "look weak"....doesn't seem like it hurt him much. He came out okay, guys, settle down.
If you get mad about cartoonish babyfaces going over, it's probably best to skip older WWF shows.
loling at OP implying he could "get over" somebody(one of his employees!)having sex with his underage daughter.
As for people being butthurt Savage took the loss and was made to "look weak"....doesn't seem like it hurt him much. He came out okay, guys, settle down.
If you get mad about cartoonish babyfaces going over, it's probably best to skip older WWF shows.