The WrestleZone Tournament Has Begun
- Thread starter Uncle Sam
- Start date
SavageTaker
Everybody Has A Price!
Is there going to be another one to figure out who's third and fourth place winners?
SavageTaker
Everybody Has A Price!
I think we're probably going to get one of the best debates in this tournament this year between JMT and xFear.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
Only if X starts actually debating instead of just saying Sting sucks cause I said so.
BOSS Productions
Pre-Show Stalwart
Vote Austin guys.
What about my last post in response to JMT was just me saying "Sting sucks"? I gave plenty of reasons and addressed every one of his.
SavageTaker
Everybody Has A Price!
If you actually read his post then you would've seen why he thinks Sting sucks. One of the reasons he stated is because Sting has had to be carried for the most part in the past 15 years into decent matches. Is that not a reason?
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
Probably the parts where you continually claim it is a fact that Sting has been canine fecal matter for over a decade. A claim that becomes even more confusing in its relevancy when you consider that Austin never wrestled at the ages Sting was during this time anyway.
The idea of someone being carried is never something I much believed in. One person cannot make a match good by themselves. Who is carrying Sting to the large reactions he still gets whenever he comes out?
The idea of someone being carried is never something I much believed in. One person cannot make a match good by themselves. Who is carrying Sting to the large reactions he still gets whenever he comes out?
And I provide reasons why I believe that. I'm sorry you disagree, but that doesn't mean I'm "not debating". Don't know what the fuck your problem is.
Something I addressed in my last post. Did you even read my post, or just go straight to bashing it?
If you want to sit here and tell me that Sting wasn't carried by AJ Styles at BFG 09, I'm sorry, you are delusional. There most CERTAINLY is such a thing as carrying a match, I'm sorry you choose not to accept that.
And "large reactions"...in front of a maximum of 2,500 people...is not impressive, at all SD. At all. More people watch Steve Austin on a weekly basis on Tough Enough, in a completely non-in ring wrestling role, then do Sting on a weekly basis on TNA, who is their fucking World champion. So if you want to bring popularity into it, by all means be my guest, because that only strengthens the argument for Austin, who was and is far and away a more popular wrestler than Sting has ever been at any point in his career.
Mac Attack
I'm neat.
Personally I'm voting for Sting for a totally different reason. However I think Austin is a very strong competitor however there is one thing that makes me want to vote Sting and it is not because Austin has won the tournament before.
I'm keeping this a secret until the poll opens.
I'm keeping this a secret until the poll opens.
Mac Attack
I'm neat.
I look forward to a miniature debate with some people on as to why Sting should win... Best of luck to you and Austin.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
Actually I preferred WWF and Austin is my favorite wrestler of all-time.
You did at least start to debate in the most recent post. In the several before that you were not doing much of anything resembling debating. I do still think you are capable of expanding your reasoning beyond subjective match opinions.
Actually you quoted it and did not address it at all. You talked about Austin's early career to try and dodge the issue. The fact is that their in-ring work stepped down a notch about about the same age. You have already said Sting was a great worker up until he was about the age Austin retired. Why you insist on focusing on his work at the age of 40-50 is beyond me. Sure seems like a huge cop out on the real question at hand.
You cannot take dogshit and make it look very good. Carrying is just some bullshit phrase people say when they do not want to admit someone did a good job on that day or they are indy marks that cannot appreciate the character and story aspects that contribute to how good a match is. A talented person can make someone look a little better but you are exaggerating a ton here. A common theme in your "debate skills."
You did at least start to debate in the most recent post. In the several before that you were not doing much of anything resembling debating. I do still think you are capable of expanding your reasoning beyond subjective match opinions.
Actually you quoted it and did not address it at all. You talked about Austin's early career to try and dodge the issue. The fact is that their in-ring work stepped down a notch about about the same age. You have already said Sting was a great worker up until he was about the age Austin retired. Why you insist on focusing on his work at the age of 40-50 is beyond me. Sure seems like a huge cop out on the real question at hand.
You cannot take dogshit and make it look very good. Carrying is just some bullshit phrase people say when they do not want to admit someone did a good job on that day or they are indy marks that cannot appreciate the character and story aspects that contribute to how good a match is. A talented person can make someone look a little better but you are exaggerating a ton here. A common theme in your "debate skills."
My first post wasn't supposed to be a large outlining argument. It was a quick post I typed up in less than five minutes that I was originally going to post in a different thread, but decided to post in the official match thread because it belonged there anyways. Are you going to call out Norcal now for his shabby argument in his post as well? Didn't realize we needed to write a thesis explaining our entire argument.
I responded to someone else's argument however, responding to each of their points. That's a textbook definition of what "debate" is. So, again, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about, as usual.
How did I dodge the issue? I brought up Sting's in-ring work during his 90s prime and went into detail about how more often than not he needed another excellent worker with him to have a good match (Flair, Vader), and that he usually could not carry lesser talents to good matches like truly phenomenal workers like Flair and Vader could. I then explained that Austin could do just that, and his series of matches with Savio Vega in 1996 proved that pretty handily, taking a total scrub who never amounted to anything, and dragging near **** matches out of him.
You don't understand how a wrestling match works then if you don't think someone can carry the large workload in a match. I could give you many examples if you'd like, I've already given you AJ vs Sting at BFG 09 as one. Here are some more examples: Kurt Angle vs. Big Show at Armageddon 2002 (or really any Big Show match from 99-2007 or so), Bret Hart carrying Jean Pierre Lafitte to TWO great matches in 1995, as well as carrying Kane (Isaac Yankem) to one as well. Or take Benoit vs. Angle vs. Undertaker from Smackdown in September of 2002, in which Benoit and Angle wrestled the entire match against each other while the Undertaker laid around on the mat and floor for ten minutes, came in and hit one chokeslam and won after having put forth maybe 3 offensive moves in the entire match. That's a carry-job. Refuse to believe in carrying all you'd like, it exists, and any wrestler ever will tell you.
And nice potshot at my "debate skills". Pardon me if I don't take your insult to heart, I think I'll be taking the word over pretty much every person I've ever debated with over yours, thanks.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
The problem with the carrying theory is that it implies the other person in a match should not matter as long as one is talented. That is obviously a fallacious statement. Workload isn't everything in a match. If AJ wrestles that same match with someone that isn't Sting it doesn't mean nearly as much and thus has a significantly less potent effect. How many times can someone be "carried" before it ceases to be a coincidence? You still haven't explained why Sting supposedly being shitty in his 40s matters.
Again, you're full of shit. Ask a wrestler, any wrestler, and they will tell you that carry-jobs DO exist. I just fucking gave you an example of one, and EXPLAINED that example. I'm sorry, but if you're going to tell me that Undertaker carried just as much of the load in that match against Benoit and Angle in which he performed maybe 3 moves, laid around for ten minutes while Benoit and Angle suplexed the shit out of eachother, and then came in and hit the chokeslam for the finish, it's not a matter of opinion, you are wrong. By definition, Angle and Benoit carried the workload in that match. They worked harder, and more, than Undertaker did in that match. They carried the load. Hence the term "carried" exists. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of who does the work in a match and who just stands there and lets the other guy hit moves on him or lay around doing nothing while others wrestle.
And yes, I have explained why Sting being terrible in his 40s (and late 30s) is relevant to a discussion of who the better overall professional wrestler is. Austin wrestled for 15 years and was incredible throughout his entire career, beginning to end. Sting hasn't been. We're supposed to just forget about the last 15 years of Sting's career? Sorry, but no. It doesn't even matter though, remove the entire TNA run from the argument and just discuss his early 90s WCW prime (which I already did), and again, Austin trumps him in every way and I've explained several times already why he does, from his in-ring work to his ability to connect to the fans and his career accomplishments.
If you want to discuss this further, post in the actual thread for this debate.
Serious Mozzarella
Special Victims Unit
So what's the strongest pro-Sting argument? That Austin won last year?
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
That's good enough for me. Repeats are always boring unless it's your team/guy. Austin isn't my guy.
Serious Mozzarella
Special Victims Unit
At least you have the balls to admit it. I'm fairly certain people are just grasping and looping around the fact that there are two reasons people are voting sting. TNA>WWE bias, and "Austin won last year." There's no way this would fly otherwise.
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
Austin is deserving of being the first guy to win this tournament multiple times, I'm OK with that. But the idea kind of bores me and he's going up against Sting, who I feel is a big enough star to win it all. That's why I voted for him.
Mr. Artistic guy
Better Off This Way
Hey get ready to cock your pistols but my reasoning for voting Sting is because I genuinely believe at his best he is better than Austin, and yes that includes as a talker as well.
ScreaminNormanSmiley
formerly ScreaminNormanSmiley
Sting is a better christian. Anybody who doesn't vote for him I will assume is an infidel.
Mr. Artistic guy
Better Off This Way
I lock that man up for unruly use of a hyphen. And before anybody asks it's the one between the words for and president.
