The Undertaker: Which Version is Best?

[SH1994]

I think that the Minitry Undertaker was the best ever!
Why? cause that was the era of taker that was the yr where he was in nearly every Raw or ppv main event.
In a shoot interview Mark Callaway (Undertaker) clamed that his fav gimmik from a viewers standpoint was the ministry version.
However he clamed that it was hard to act it out as he had to go through alot of lifestyle changes.
That it basically changed him phsycoligy and dat was where he was the most over.

 

[Mitch3721]

I would have to say the american badass was the best for the undertaker. During this time he was the most human, and spoke freely on the mic, which i prefer to all the special effects lightining bolts crap, purely coz i know its not real so whats the point.

The american badass had some great matches like KOR 00', Unforgiven 00', NWO 01' (brothers of destruction ruled), WM 01' with trips and the fued with the power trip. He was consistently performing at a high level and it showed us a more human side to the undertaker, especially with DDP and sara. And then the heel turn the night after survivor series was brilliantly unexpected, and led big evil into the picture, which is my second favourite peroid for taker, because again he just seemed more real

 

[Undertaker4Eva]

The Undertaker is awesome and I love all of his personas but I voted for the lord of darkness just cause he was basically as he is now but faster and his match with mankind was legendary. I like him now too especially with the new submission move. Overall he is just the best lol

 

[reddevil69]

Khali is over 7ft tall. Losing to him at that time wouldn't have harmed anybody.




He defeated Mabel & Heidenreich. Neither got over and the matches were terrible.

He didn't exactly put over Orton either. Randy had to have his dad for help, and had gimmick matches to defeat Taker.

Putting him over was what he did to Khali, not Orton.



I'm not disputing his popularity.





But that DVD sucks. Again though, I'm not saying he's not popular.



Fans love him. But the consistency of his merch selling ability is down to him being consistently on the roster in a top position.



Not really. He was a main eventer for a few months before Survivor Series 1991. Come Rumble time he was upper mid card, where he stayed for years.



Probably. But if he's acted like more of a heel that he did it would have come of as being a much better match.



It was a good show. But people buy it based on the hype before. The hype was good, but the end result for the main event was an average match.

it's not 1990...there is no such thing as getting over in the eyes of the fans today...they all know it's a work and they know it's a television show designed to entertain...the fact is Heidenreich, Kennedy,Mark Henry,Viscera and Orton all got major tv exposure by working with Taker...in the end, no one wants to see the Joker kill Batman or Superman lose to Lex Luthor....Taker goes over because that is what the majority of the paying fans want to see....at least he worked a 5 month program with Orton and let him get a few wins over him on PPV and tv instead of burying him over the course of one week like HHH did in 2004....and Orton is on top right now which just proves the point, it's a show and everyone has a place on the program and a job to do...Orton did his job for a few years and now he's on top....Taker is on top because he draws money and the fans want him there....not because he has been placed at the top by Vince...if he was not drawing money and earning his spot Vince would not position him at the top of the card...and just because you didn't like the Tombstone dvd does not mean it sucks...that's your opinion and you are entitled to it but don't shit all over something that other people enjoy...i'm quite sure that many of those who purchased it like the dvd...

 

[Raw #1]

ok the Undertaker is my favorite superstar of all time but, at his best i think that it was when he was in his Minstry because he took over the WWF/WWE at the time and when he had Paul Bearer and his side and the Minisry there was no stopping him and later on at that he did what no one saw coming The undertaker formed with Shane the Corprate Minisrty, now I know he is the World heavyweight Champion and is 16-0 but if just if the Undertaker took Dark Superstars from Raw , Smackdown, and ECW and made a hole new Minisry I know for a fact that Edge won't even think about going for a rematch at Backlash.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

it's not 1990...there is no such thing as getting over in the eyes of the fans today

?????

the fact is Heidenreich, Kennedy,Mark Henry,Viscera and Orton all got major tv exposure by working with Taker...

Okaay. Santino Marella get's major TV exposure from getting beaten on Raw.

Do you mean that each of those wrestlers benefited from being in the ring, or in a feud with Taker?

in the end, no one wants to see the Joker kill Batman or Superman lose to Lex Luthor....

Those issues are usually the best sellers.

Taker goes over because that is what the majority of the paying fans want to see....

I guess.

at least he worked a 5 month program with Orton and let him get a few wins over him on PPV and tv instead of burying him over the course of one week like HHH did in 2004....

HHH did bury him quicker. But Undertaker didn't make him look great. He put Orton over to a certain extent. But Orton had help from his father and in gimmick matches.

If you want to really put somebody over, you beat them clean. Not ''clean'' the way HHH did to Jeff Hardy in December.

Orton did his job for a few years and now he's on top....

No he's not. He's behind Cena & HHH on Raw. And he's the champ.

Taker is on top because he draws money and the fans want him there....

Does he draw money? I'm sure he does. But he's not a great draw. His feuds with Austin, Rock, Hogan and others probably drew because of both. But primarily his opponent.

not because he has been placed at the top by Vince...

Err it's Vence's company. He'll have the say on everything.

if he was not drawing money and earning his spot Vince would not position him at the top of the card...

Three words: JOHN. BRADSHAW. LAYFIELD.

and just because you didn't like the Tombstone dvd does not mean it sucks...that's your opinion and you are entitled to it but don't shit all over something that other people enjoy...i'm quite sure that many of those who purchased it like the dvd...

It was terrible. It was apoor selection of matches. It was put together to make quick cash. A student could have edited it together better. You only have to watch proper WWE DVD's to see the difference in quality.

 

[reddevil69]

?????



Okaay. Santino Marella get's major TV exposure from getting beaten on Raw.

Do you mean that each of those wrestlers benefited from being in the ring, or in a feud with Taker?



Those issues are usually the best sellers.



I guess.



HHH did bury him quicker. But Undertaker didn't make him look great. He put Orton over to a certain extent. But Orton had help from his father and in gimmick matches.

If you want to really put somebody over, you beat them clean. Not ''clean'' the way HHH did to Jeff Hardy in December.



No he's not. He's behind Cena & HHH on Raw. And he's the champ.



Does he draw money? I'm sure he does. But he's not a great draw. His feuds with Austin, Rock, Hogan and others probably drew because of both. But primarily his opponent.



Err it's Vence's company. He'll have the say on everything.



Three words: JOHN. BRADSHAW. LAYFIELD.



It was terrible. It was apoor selection of matches. It was put together to make quick cash. A student could have edited it together better. You only have to watch proper WWE DVD's to see the difference in quality.

JBL is damn good at what he does as a heel and they need good heels to run against top guys....the reason Cena went over as big as he did in 2005 was because he beat JBL for the belt at Mania...everyone wanted to see JBL lose, he is very easy to dislike that's why he's a top heel...comparing him to Taker as a draw is ridiculous...Taker is a superstar and a legend...and Orton is on top, the fact that he has the title guarantees him main event money and a high percentage pay-off from all the PPV's he's featured on, Cena and HHH may still be above him, but i'm quite sure Orton is doing much better financially with the title than he was without it...
and as a comic retailer i can tell you that yes, the issue in question where Supes died was a top seller, but it also killed the comic book industry in the end because the majority of the sales were from speculators trying to cash in on a gimmick book that they thought they could flip for $100 a piece down the road...none of them came back for the next 5 years and collected comics and sales dipped drastically, why do you think Marvel comics filed for bankruptcy in 1996?...they tried to do the same thing with spiderman and it backfired....furthermore, no one is going to make a 2 hour film about the Joker or Lex Luthor in Hollywood, it's Batman's and Superman's name on the marquee.....
people keep coming back to watch Taker year after year, the true fans don't want to see him lose, that's why when i was in Detroit for Mania last year there were signs everywhere saying "if taker loses we riot"....and his shirts were sold out at every booth, i know, i walked around the stadium to try and find one and it took me almost 40 mins to find a booth with any Taker shirts left...having him lose to someone who may have potential but isn't a sure lock to be pushed as a main eventer is pointless...like Ric Flair said: "in the end the real fans do not care who wins or loses, they know the deal...the fans want to go home having been entertained and they want to see their favorites win and they want to boo the guys they don't like"...and yes it's Vinces company and he'll have the final say on anything and he's in the business of making money, not losing it, which is why if Taker was not creating revenue for him he would not be in the spot he's in today... and while i agree with you that the dvd could have been better, it does not change the fact that it is the highest selling non-wrestlemania dvd that WWE has produced...

 

[Y 2 Jake]

comparing him to Taker as a draw is ridiculous...Taker is a superstar and a legend...

Yet JBL was given the ball as champ for nearly a year.

people keep coming back to watch Taker year after year, the true fans don't want to see him lose,

Right. So you're a true fan because you never want to see 'Taker ever drop the WHC?

that's why when i was in Detroit for Mania last year there were signs everywhere saying "if taker loses we riot"....

Those are just signs. Somebody made it at One Night Stand. The difference being that there probably would have been a riot at that show, had Cena won.

Wrestling fans are just really unimaginative with signs these days.

and his shirts were sold out at every booth, i know, i walked around the stadium to try and find one and it took me almost 40 mins to find a booth with any Taker shirts left...

Sold out but you found one? Okey dokey.

having him lose to someone who may have potential but isn't a sure lock to be pushed as a main eventer is pointless...

Not really. If he'd lost to Heidenreich then maybe people would have seen him as a threat.

and yes it's Vinces company and he'll have the final say on anything and he's in the business of making money, not losing it, which is why if Taker was not creating revenue for him he would not be in the spot he's in today...

Did JBL draw money? I'm pretty sure that Diesel is one of the worst drawing champs of all time. I believe his title run lasted up to a year.

and while i agree with you that the dvd could have been better, it does not change the fact that it is the highest selling non-wrestlemania dvd that WWE has produced...

Who said Taker wasn't immensely popular? I'm sure I didn't.

 

[reddevil69]

Yet JBL was given the ball as champ for nearly a year.




Right. So you're a true fan because you never want to see 'Taker ever drop the WHC?



Those are just signs. Somebody made it at One Night Stand. The difference being that there probably would have been a riot at that show, had Cena won.

Wrestling fans are just really unimaginative with signs these days.



Sold out but you found one? Okey dokey.



Not really. If he'd lost to Heidenreich then maybe people would have seen him as a threat.




Did JBL draw money? I'm pretty sure that Diesel is one of the worst drawing champs of all time. I believe his title run lasted up to a year.



Who said Taker wasn't immensely popular? I'm sure I didn't.

yeah i found a shirt, after nearly three quarters of an hour of looking....the point is all the other wrestlers shirts were still available at every booth i checked up to that point except Taker's....and as a fan, no i don't want to see him drop the title, even though i know it's going to happen eventually, and i'm sure the millions of fans he has around the globe don't want to see him drop it either....why would you be a fan of a wrestler or a sports franchise and want them to lose?...
and anyone who claims to be a wrestling fan and does not respect the fact that Taker is an exceptional athlete and that a man with his proportions should not be able to do the things he does in the ring, especially when you consider the man is having his best matches at 43 years old,is not a true fan...it's the same as people saying A-Rod is overrated because he's the highest paid...the fact is the guy is the best baseball player period and when it's all said and done, he'll probably be regarded as the best to ever play the game...my point, which you conveniently skipped around is that you don't cater to the speculators by gimmicking out your top guys for a job in order to create quick interest....you cater to the fans that come back year in and year out and stay loyal to your product, they pay the bills,not the bandwagon hoppers who jump on the Mayweather or Trump bandwagon, and there are a hell of alot of loyal wwe fans that want Taker right where he is, on top...
i never said JBL drew money, but he was the same as Honky tonk Man, people were waiting to see who was finally going to kick the guy's ass and take the belt from him, him being hated made Cena look that much better when he won the belt....Smackdown is in better shape with Taker as champ than without him, there is not one performer on that roster that commands the fans attention the way Taker does, period...why do you think this poll has the current version of Taker beating out all the others?...Taker is the WWE's Batman/Superman end of story, and he doesn't have to have his heat manufactured like someone else we know who is married to the head honcho's daughter...the same guy that is 'so-called' the best in the business today and can squash a certain Samoan bulldozer in 10 minutes after being slapped around like a rag doll, and miraculously come back and pin the monster, and a month later he struggles for 25 minutes against a 59 year old man who's on his way to retirement...

 

[The Dungeon]

You know this downplaying of 'Taker is rediculous! I mean, I really don't see how he politicked his way to the top! Granted he's been there for a long time, but he's not in the main event of every PPV.

Hunter has main evented more PPV's than anyone in WWE history....with 'Taker closely behind....'Taker's first PPV main event was in Nov.1991....16 and a half years.....while Hunter only started main eventing 9 years ago!

Lets go over 'Taker's career shall we.....in 1990...he was the hot young superstar, who was getting ovations as early as Wrestlemania VII a few months later....when he wasn't even in the main event picture yet! His gimmick isntantly caught on, unlike Heidenrich, Khali or the 900 other Johnny Come Lately's 'Taker has feuded with for nearly 18 years!

Now, 'Taker feuds with Warrior in 1991, to get his main event push going...while 'Taker may be the new next top heel...he splits the matches with Warrior at all the house shows. 'Taker also beats every mid-card babayface on the roster, leading into the fall of that year, where it's announced he'll face Hulk Hogan.

During Survivor Series 1991....the crowd was 50/50 for the Hogan/'Taker match....as Hogan's reign at the top was dying a slow death....and the impending steroid scandal and his apperance on Arsenio Hall didn't help...plus his original fans were getting older....they wanted something new, something fresh...something different anad modern. Enter the Deadman!!!! While Hogan was still a hit with the kids, the older fans were having trouble relating to him anymore. Even some kids were turning the other way to 'Taker!

'Taker won the WWF Championship for one week in 1991...and lost it back a week later...not due to politics...but it was all merely to shape the 1992 Royal Rumble! 'Taker was only a year into the WWF...he wouldn't have any stroke yet back then!! Period! Especially over Hogan!!

In 1992, he turns babyface...because the fans demand it!! That's a fact! He beats Jake Roberts in a seemingly easy fashion making him more legit! And for the next near 2 years, 'Taker feuds with giant, talentless lugs that nobody cares about! But yet Vince knew, at least in my opinion that these guys, being squashed by the Deadman, would make him look more legit!

'Taker's loss to Yokozuna has been a large dispute saying 'Taker didn't want to put the champ over clean. Before Yoko died, he had nothing but nice things to say about 'Taker! The plan was to obviously protect his character, because both he and Bret Hart were Vince's biggest draws at that point, and the fact that 'Taker's character was seen as this indestructable monster to his fans....a clean loss could've devistated his character, and drawing power!

When he returned in late 1994...he went back to feuding with the big men, throughout all of 1995, obviously Vince didn't want to put the belt on him, because he was drawing money without being a champion! 'Taker's merchandise was through the roof, in a time where the WWF was struggling. While the fans weren't as widespread in numbers like in the 80's...the fans said....as it relates to Bret & 'Taker...."these guys are our guys".

Now if I had to estimate, I'd say it'd be around late 1995, early 1996, where 'Taker had the kind of relationship with Vince where he could suggest things to him. Rumor has it, 'Taker was fed up with feuding with every big man on the roster, and demanded something more! He fought in the Royal Rumble against Bret Hart in a title match, where the crowd was resoundingly on the Deadman's side! The show drew a strong buyrate up from the previous years event.

Now here's the thing, 'Taker was a main event star, with main event popularity, by the time 1996 rolled around. Guess how many PPV's 'Taker main evented at that point....6!!!!!! Bret Hart had already main evented more than double that....and there popularity rivaled one another!

So quite frankly...where was the politicking????

Lets move on...althrough 1996....'Taker & Mick Foley bring out the best in one another....Foley makes his mark as a legit superstar in the WWF...while 'Taker has the best actual matches of his career!

Now we move to 1997....'Taker finally gets the belt! Now, who else could Vince have relied on? Bret? Nope, he was in the midst of a heel turn! Austin? Still had more hills to climb! Shawn? "injured". Sid? "Drawing terribly". So really, 'Taker was acutally a last resort!!

And from a business stand point...it makes sense...why give a guy who's already drawing you big money a title....when you can put it on someone else to help the compnay draw money...and have more than one substantial draw!

In 1998 to 1999....'Taker and Austin's feud draws BIG money! In that time...'Taker wins the belt....once...for a MONTH! 'Taker does many jobs to Austin in this period, some clean, some not! Case in point, Vince knew 'Taker had been protected long enough...and knew jobs to the top guy wouldn't hurt!

In the 2000's....as the Amercian Badass....losses to Triple H, Kurt Angle, Austin, Lesnar, The Rock, RVD (twice on Raw), Cena (on SD). All followed....again not all of them were clean....but the fact of the matter is...when you still have a top draw...and he's a babyface....you protect him!

Later on...jobs to Orton & Khali and a few others followed!

Also....'Taker has never outright buried his opponents!!!!!! He's always given something back to them!

 

[wardog1i]

Taker was by far the most entertaining from 1996-1998, but puts together the best matches in the present stage of his career.

However, I voted for the Big Evil phase of his career, simply because the man could cut a promo when given the chance. Considering he's gone most of his career without a voice, I loved hearing him call people out when he was given the stick.

 

[Total Impact]

I like the Lord of Darkness/Minstry Taker becayse he was given the mic and was greaton the mic and without a doubt the best Heel in the WWE at that time besides The Rock. The Undertake during that time was the coolest e has ever been & I wish he would go back to that gimmick as I'm tired of the same old same old Take stuff we are getting from Smackdown right now.

 

[The Dungeon]

Anotehr thing I wanted to point out yesterday...is that Vince loves to protect his top babyfaces! 'Taker is no different!!!!!!!

Just look....Hogan...from '84-'93....ONE clean job....to the Warrior!

Warrior...don't ever recall doing a clean job on TV.

Savage...as a babyface...same thing!

Bret Hart...first real babyface push....started in 1991.....up to his heel turn in 1997....3 clean jobs...Bulldog, Owen & Shawn! 2 of the 3 were fellow babyfaces!

Kevin Nash (Diesel)...only when he dropped the belt to Bret...other clean jobs were when he was a heel.

Shawn....no clean jobs as a face during 1995-1997....however, Shawn has done clean jobs to Angle, Hunter, Hogan and most recently Orton. All since his return in 2002

Austin.....when did he ever do clean jobs as a face? I can think of two times! Once to 'Taker at IYH: Cold Day in hell'. And another to the Rock...his last match!!!

The Rock....did one clean job his whole time as a babyface!

Cena....two.....one to Shawn, one to Orton!

So it's not like protecting babyfaces is something new for Vince! And if they're drawing money...like 'Taker still is...he'll keep protecting them...adn 'Taker's done clean jobs to Batista...and vice versa! It's just Vince protecting them!

 

[Y 2 Jake]

.and as a fan, no i don't want to see him drop the title, even though i know it's going to happen eventually, and i'm sure the millions of fans he has around the globe don't want to see him drop it either....why would you be a fan of a wrestler or a sports franchise and want them to lose?...

Sports and wrestling are totally different. I never want to see my football team lose. But I would want my favorite wrestler to lose if it was the right option.

and anyone who claims to be a wrestling fan and does not respect the fact that Taker is an exceptional athlete and that a man with his proportions should not be able to do the things he does in the ring, especially when you consider the man is having his best matches at 43 years old,is not a true fan...

Undertaker is good. But he's not the greatest. The greatest would have had consistently great matches throughout his entire career. Undertaker has had consistently average matches throughout his career. It's only over the past few years where he's been really great, ring wise.

my point, which you conveniently skipped around

It's probably because cut 'n' paste and paragraphs aren't your friend. You try to decyfer your posts.

is that you don't cater to the speculators by gimmicking out your top guys for a job in order to create quick interest....you cater to the fans that come back year in and year out and stay loyal to your product, they pay the bills,not the bandwagon hoppers who jump on the Mayweather or Trump bandwagon, and there are a hell of alot of loyal wwe fans that want Taker right where he is, on top...

You cater to everybody. You need to get new fans. You aren't going to do that by not having people like Mayweather & Trump. Or angles involving Austin with a killer heel like McMahon.

why do you think this poll has the current version of Taker beating out all the others?...

Because the majority of the people who vote are teens. Teens who won't know any other version on Taker.

It's the same reason a wrestler like HBK would probably win a popularity contest over Austin or Hogan. Because he's currently on the roster.

Taker is the WWE's Batman/Superman end of story, and he doesn't have to have his heat manufactured like someone else we know who is married to the head honcho's daughter...

His heat isn't manufactured? What's with the gimmick then?

the same guy that is 'so-called' the best in the business today and can squash a certain Samoan bulldozer in 10 minutes after being slapped around like a rag doll, and miraculously come back and pin the monster, and a month later he struggles for 25 minutes against a 59 year old man who's on his way to retirement...

You pretty much descrbed the early part of Undertakers career. But instead of 59 year old Flair, ot was 59 stone Yokozuna.

 

[Total Impact]

Anotehr thing I wanted to point out yesterday...is that Vince loves to protect his top babyfaces! 'Taker is no different!!!!!!!

Just look....Hogan...from '84-'93....ONE clean job....to the Warrior!

Warrior...don't ever recall doing a clean job on TV.

Savage...as a babyface...same thing!

Bret Hart...first real babyface push....started in 1991.....up to his heel turn in 1997....3 clean jobs...Bulldog, Owen & Shawn! 2 of the 3 were fellow babyfaces!

Kevin Nash (Diesel)...only when he dropped the belt to Bret...other clean jobs were when he was a heel.

Shawn....no clean jobs as a face during 1995-1997....however, Shawn has done clean jobs to Angle, Hunter, Hogan and most recently Orton. All since his return in 2002

Austin.....when did he ever do clean jobs as a face? I can think of two times! Once to 'Taker at IYH: Cold Day in hell'. And another to the Rock...his last match!!!

The Rock....did one clean job his whole time as a babyface!

Cena....two.....one to Shawn, one to Orton!

So it's not like protecting babyfaces is something new for Vince! And if they're drawing money...like 'Taker still is...he'll keep protecting them...adn 'Taker's done clean jobs to Batista...and vice versa! It's just Vince protecting them!

Babyfaces don’t do due clean jobs as they are the ones you want to see win. If they do a clean job, then they are jobbers and lose credibility. People cheat to win on them so you as a fan have an excuse to why they lost. That’s the way it works in wrestling and will always work in wrestling. People come to see the faces win or lose in a cheating manner so they can enjoy the comeback, its wrestling 101. If everyone was doing clean jobs, then storylines would suck.

 

[The Dungeon]

QUOTE]Babyfaces don’t do due clean jobs as they are the ones you want to see win. If they do a clean job, then they are jobbers and lose credibility. People cheat to win on them so you as a fan have an excuse to why they lost. That’s the way it works in wrestling and will always work in wrestling. People come to see the faces win or lose in a cheating manner so they can enjoy the comeback, its wrestling 101. If everyone was doing clean jobs, then storylines would suck.
[/QUOTE]


I know...I was pointing that out to other people on the board who don't get it!!!!!

Sports and wrestling are totally different. I never want to see my football team lose. But I would want my favorite wrestler to lose if it was the right option.

What to you is the right option???

Undertaker is good. But he's not the greatest. The greatest would have had consistently great matches throughout his entire career. Undertaker has had consistently average matches throughout his career. It's only over the past few years where he's been really great, ring wise.

Well look who they stuck him with for crying out loud...Kamala, Gonzales, Hughes, Yoko, Bundy, Kama, Mabel, Sid, Kane, Heidenrich, A-Train, The Big Show, Khali, Mark Henry!!!! Not exactly a stellar lineup!

ONLY over the past few years eh?? Let's see, in the 1996-98 period, 'Taker hardly had a bad match! With a few minor acceptions his work in the ring was always consistent!! The stuff with Mick Foley was awesome...they both brought out the best in one another! Matches with Bret Hart were great, Vader ones were fun, stuff with Austin was really good, the first couple matches withKane were good (the rest sucked, I'll grant you that). But 'Taker was redhot in this period, in terms of his matches!

In 1999, injuries started to mount, and sometimes he needed to be carried! When he returned in 2000, he was still pretty banged up, but worked through it, working with Kurt Angle, having some good matches with him, as well as a damn good match on Raw in the Fall of 2000, with The Rock!

In 2001, his match with Triple H at WM 17 was awesome, and the subsuquent feud with Steve Austin also produced a good match at Judgement Day. The rest of 2001, was the dull Invasion angle, and 'Taker, and the hearts of both 'Taker & DDP just didn't seem to be into there feud, due to the fact they probably both believed it was stupid!
By late 2001, 'Taker had a really good brawl iwth RVD at Vengeance, 2002, 'Taker carried Ric Flair (Ric admits it), at WM X8. 'Taker won the belt shortly after, and with the exception of his matches with Jeff Hardy, nothing really stood out, but the feud andmatches with Lesnar, were excellent.

I'll also grant, 2003, wasn't exactly a banner year for the deadman, as he was stuck with Big Show & A-Train for the good chunk of it!!!

So I wouldn't say he JUST got good! Maybe this is his best period of consistent great matches, but the 1996-98 period is a strong contender for that arguement!

You cater to everybody. You need to get new fans. You aren't going to do that by not having people like Mayweather & Trump. Or angles involving Austin with a killer heel like McMahon.

Yeah...but how many of those fans stuck around??? Buyrates were terrible for the most part last year! And what does Austin & McMahon have to do with it??

His heat isn't manufactured? What's with the gimmick then?

I can't speak for what reddevil said...but I will say that what I think he meant was that, 'Taker wasn't shoved down our throats constantly!

You pretty much descrbed the early part of Undertakers career. But instead of 59 year old Flair, ot was 59 stone Yokozuna.

The MAJOR difference being 'Taker was still younger, and only in the company for 3 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Major difference there pal.

It's not the fact Hunter squashed Umaga....it's the fact of how many times he did it.....and the circumstances behind it!!!

'Taker only beat Yoko once on TV/PPV if IIRC!

Another thing I want to point out...

'Taker never main events a large stretch of PPV's for insane amounts of time! Lets recap shall we!

He was one of the focal points in late 1991 going into the Roayl Rumble in 1992, surrounding the world title picture! After that he turned babyface, and stayed an upper level mid-carder until late 1993, when he challenged Yokozuna!

Feuded with Yoko, main eventing the RR 94, and co-main eventing Survivor Series '94! After that...back to upper mid-card status!

Didn't main event one single PPV in 1995!!

Royal Rumble '96...main events against Bret Hart! Drawing a big buyrate....kind of co-main events Summerslam.....main events at IYH: Buried Alive....etc.

Finally in 1997....'Taker was champion....and main evented 5 straight PPV's, from Feb.1997-Jun.1997 (didn't main event at IYH: Canadian Stampede despite being in a match that night), and main evented 3 more consectutively. 1997 was a bad year for PPV's, but think about it......'Taker had been in the company 7 years.....and was perhaps the most popular star they had....and it's just NOW he's headlining that many in a row???

1998 rolls around....'Taker main events the Royal Rumble, co-main events Unforgiven & KOTR. Main events (or co-main events) the next 6 straight PPV's....1998 was a great PPV year in terms of buyrates for the WWF. His feud with Austin was red hot!!
In 1999...despite nagging injuries....'Taker wins the belt....main eventing against Austin, as well as The Rock! Both shows draw well!! Two PPV's is all he main events all year.

In 2000....'Taker is in the main event of 4 PPV's.....only once was it back to back!

2001....he main events back to back PPV's in the Spring.....and the other two were big Invasion angle tag matches totalling 4!

2002....Wins the championship in May....main eventing 3 straight PPV's....and main eventing back to back with Lesnar in the fall!

2003...main events only twice....Lesar...and Vince...loses both times!!!!

2004....re-emerges as the Deadman....popularity increases.....main events 3 PPV's...involving JBL...one a 4-way dance....loses them all!

2005...stays out of the title picture completely....main events against Randy Orton in the culmination of there feud at Armageddon '05! Goes nearly a year without headling a PPV.....longest stretch since 1995!

2006...main events against Kurt Angle...loses...clean!

2007...focal point of the Rumble...main events, No Way Out, Wrestlemania & Backlash...loses one, wins one, draw's one.....gets injured! Returns...main events against Batista....loses everytime!!

2008....wins belt....will probably go on his largest string since 1998!

He's on Smackdown now Raw...went there because they needed the star power...unlike someone else..... and he's just starting once again to main event every PPV!!!!! At a time where he's red hot in popularity...at a time where Smackdown needs it as well!

Also...in terms of Darth Hunter....he once main evented 14 consecutive PPV's....but they all drew well....I'll admit...in the Attitude Era...he was the top heel draw...period, and deserves that stretch!

However, 2002 rolls around....main events (some co-main events) a mind boggling 21 straight PPV's into 2004!!!! Most of which draw quite poorly!!!! Streak ended at Summerslam '04....headlines 8 straight more....however, the feud with Batista draws strong numbers in '05, granted!

 

[dakotabear07]

i would say that taker is the greatest and no doubt a hall or famer in a couple of years, but as good as the phoemon gimmic is, id prefer bad ass gimmic, as he had more action during those years and was more interactive with the fans.

 

[bioshock]

I dunno how you have from 90-94 and 94-96, being as 2 different roles, he was the same guy then, theres now "western" w/e that means and "dead man" he was the same, just that he changed his attire in 1994 to purple.

But his best role was in his 1st year in WWF during that time he would put most all of his oppents in a body bag, he was something new and fresh for the time, and wasn't some guy thats been thru 10 different gimmicks who's been here and there doing this and that like he is now. WWE has really used and abused him over the years.

 

[RKO Orton]

I'm a sucker for the current Phenom gimmick. Ever since he's gone back to the Phenom he has given Batista his best match -ever- at Backlash, had a pretty decent feud with Edge, and added a kickass submission manuver. Some of the things he does are so surprising, to say the least. Coming out of a casket, appearing in the middle of the ring as the lights turn on. Yeah, maybe he doesn't talk, but he doesn't have to.

 

[reaper86]

Taker is one of the best of altimes. simply when ever you buy a ticket to see him you know that you will get your moneys worth. as soon as one hears his music it sends a chill up every persons spine to know that the deadman is coming. when he speaks everyone listens. through out his career the taker has know how to evolve and change with the times so he wont become stail and old. have his match's all being great no but no superstar will ever say that all their matches where great. but i would like to see him reform the ministry that way he will keep the belt longer and not get cheated out the title. having a few people have his back will make it harder to get cheated and the unknowing who will be part will create a new sense of anticaption. peace

 

[sharpsh00ter23]

Undertaker is now even more of a badass than he ever has been in history. He has added to his move list, changed his entrance, and has really gotten into better shape. He's no longer @ the 300 lb. mark. He finally is getting title runs again as well.

 

[sharpsh00ter23]

Undertaker is now even more of a badass than he ever has been in history. He has added to his move list, changed his entrance, and has really gotten into better shape. He's no longer @ the 300 lb. mark. He finally is getting title runs again as well.

 

[reddevil69]

Sports and wrestling are totally different. I never want to see my football team lose. But I would want my favorite wrestler to lose if it was the right option.




Undertaker is good. But he's not the greatest. The greatest would have had consistently great matches throughout his entire career. Undertaker has had consistently average matches throughout his career. It's only over the past few years where he's been really great, ring wise.



It's probably because cut 'n' paste and paragraphs aren't your friend. You try to decyfer your posts.



You cater to everybody. You need to get new fans. You aren't going to do that by not having people like Mayweather & Trump. Or angles involving Austin with a killer heel like McMahon.





Because the majority of the people who vote are teens. Teens who won't know any other version on Taker.

It's the same reason a wrestler like HBK would probably win a popularity contest over Austin or Hogan. Because he's currently on the roster.



His heat isn't manufactured? What's with the gimmick then?



You pretty much descrbed the early part of Undertakers career. But instead of 59 year old Flair, ot was 59 stone Yokozuna.

what qualifies you to determine what 'the right option' is?....i love how people who've never worked for the WWE like to tell everyone what's right for business....i'm sorry you are having trouble deciphering my posts, i did not think i was writing these in Arabic....what i meant by 'manufactured heat' was that people want to see Taker...he has the ability to draw people and they want to see him because he's Undertaker....how many times does he come out for 5 minutes at the end of smackdown, not even speak and get a huge ovation and people still keep coming back to see him....HHH does not have that ability, he has to shove himself down everyone's throat and if you've watched Raw the past few months, you would see that people are not reacting to him....Jeff Hardy gets a bigger pop...the Yokozuna match?....i'm quite sure it was not Taker who came up with the schmozz finish at Rmble 1994...there is no way he would've had that kind of stroke at that point in his career...Vince came up with that because he knew Taker would be coming back and wanted him to be over strong, and Taker lost the match...Yoko still had the belt when it was over....how does Hunter making Umaga look week on PPV and tv compare?....if Umaga can't beat HHH, how would anyone ever buy into a program with Umaga and Taker....did anyone think Umaga was going to beat Batista at Mania this year?....HHH has never beat Batista so how the hell was Umaga going to stand a chance?.....and the buy rates for the remainder of 2007 were terrible, well below expectations so where are your supposed new fans that watched the PPV because of Trump?....there is a reason UFC is killing WWE right now in buys....i agree you have to try and get new fans, but you do not do it at the expense of your golden goose...you have to keep your top guys credible....people know it's a work, they want to suspend disbelief and see the guys they paid to see come out on top...

 

[Y 2 Jake]

i love how people who've never worked for the WWE like to tell everyone what's right for business....

I was telling YOU.

I'm allowed to say that. Why? Because I give more to WWE than they do to me.

i'm sorry you are having trouble deciphering my posts, i did not think i was writing these in Arabic....

Who mentioned the language? I mentioned lack of paragraphs.

..... is not how you separate different sections of a post.

what i meant by 'manufactured heat' was that people want to see Taker...he has the ability to draw people and they want to see him because he's Undertaker....how many times does he come out for 5 minutes at the end of smackdown, not even speak and get a huge ovation and people still keep coming back to see him....

Are you really debating Undertakers popularity with me? Where did I say he wasn't popular?

HHH does not have that ability, he has to shove himself down everyone's throat and if you've watched Raw the past few months, you would see that people are not reacting to him....Jeff Hardy gets a bigger pop...

Nobody reacts to HHH?

Discussion over. I'm wasting my time.

the Yokozuna match?....i'm quite sure it was not Taker who came up with the schmozz finish at Rmble 1994...there is no way he would've had that kind of stroke at that point in his career...Vince came up with that because he knew Taker would be coming back and wanted him to be over strong, and Taker lost the match...Yoko still had the belt when it was over....

Eh? What are you on about?

I used Yokozuna as a mock example. You completely missed it.

how does Hunter making Umaga look week on PPV and tv compare?....if Umaga can't beat HHH, how would anyone ever buy into a program with Umaga and Taker....did anyone think Umaga was going to beat Batista at Mania this year?....HHH has never beat Batista so how the hell was Umaga going to stand a chance?.....and the buy rates for the remainder of 2007 were terrible, well below expectations so where are your supposed new fans that watched the PPV because of Trump?....there is a reason UFC is killing WWE right now in buys....i agree you have to try and get new fans, but you do not do it at the expense of your golden goose...you have to keep your top guys credible....people know it's a work, they want to suspend disbelief and see the guys they paid to see come out on top...

What does this have to do with Undertaker?

Just because I use something as an example I'm not being literal.

If you want to continue then do it by not going off topic and talking about Triple H, Batista & Umaga.

By the way. You say that the buy rates for the end of 2007 were terrible. Who was main eventing most of those PPVs?

Rhetorical question.

 

[The Dungeon]

Nobody reacts to HHH?

Discussion over. I'm wasting my time.

I didn't see anyone say that!!!! Of course people would react.....I mean, gosh I would hope after all these years of being cram down our throats someone would react to him!

By the way. You say that the buy rates for the end of 2007 were terrible. Who was main eventing most of those PPVs?

Actually..I for one want to answer that!!!! I think the point Reddevil was trying to make was that they non fans who tuned into see the Trump/Mayweather stuff didn't stick around!

And for the record...'Taker & Batista's main events drew quite strong considering some of the numbers that the WWE drew earlier in the year!!!!!

And who ELSE main evented them? If you're going to be like that....