The State of the Superstar: 1) John Cena

[sjdigitall]

No Dumbness is saying Cena isnt successful because he isnt on Rock, Austin or Hogan's level....Rock and Austin was blessed with being a part of the attitude era...look at all the help they had from the rest of the roster...HELL WM17 which was arguably there biggest match on the greatest ppv ever was overshadowed by a TLC match because the roster was so stacked. Austin was put over by a young HBK and Bret Hart, got to fued with a young Undertaker, Mankind, Kane, Rock, when they were at their best...Cena hasnt had nearly as much help carrying the product and the Top guys he did face were in the later parts of their careers...Austn and Rock were surrounded by Hall of Famers in their prime. Cena has nobody to work with..... Yes they had huge reactions but other people had huge impacts on ticket sales....Mid card guys like The New Age Outlaws were getting just as big of pops as Rock and Austin...Dont act like the WWF was suffering and Austin and Rock saved it because that is BS....WCW turning into complete crap also had alot to do with the success of Rock and Austin. Cena has carried the company longer than Austin and Rock. Crowd reactions has nothing to do with Cena's success because if he was gone most of the crowd wouldn't even be there

If Cena isnt sucessful than neither is any other wrestler on this planet...Cena is not only the face of the WWE but he is the face of pro wrestling as a whole

Look i am judging Cena on HIS ROLE AS THE FACE OF THE COMPANY. Austin, Rock,Hogan. They all had at least 90% of the audience behind them. As much as the WWE loves to sell you that Cena's polarizing character is a good thing, it is actually a detriment.You say Austin & Rock had help and were no way responsible for the attitude era taking off. Go watch Raws from 1997-98 and watch the whole episode of RAWs back then, i have and you'll notice that the only time when the WWE had the audience was with Austin's segments. But hey i mean Austin must have really benefitted from the pin drop silence of those incredible Marc Mero segments aye?

I am not saying Cena is not successful, sure as a WWE superstar he is really successful, makes millions for the company but as a face of the company, he is failing and has been doing for sometime. And before you take this as some sort of insult, this is just my opinion.

 

[Kidpolean]

Look i am judging Cena on HIS ROLE AS THE FACE OF THE COMPANY. Austin, Rock,Hogan. They all had at least 90% of the audience behind them. As much as the WWE loves to sell you that Cena's polarizing character is a good thing, it is actually a detriment.You say Austin & Rock had help and were no way responsible for the attitude era taking off. Go watch Raws from 1997-98 and watch the whole episode of RAWs back then, i have and you'll notice that the only time when the WWE had the audience was with Austin's segments. But hey i mean Austin must have really benefitted from the pin drop silence of those incredible Marc Mero segments aye?

I am not saying Cena is not successful, sure as a WWE superstar he is really successful, makes millions for the company but as a face of the company, he is failing and has been doing for sometime. And before you take this as some sort of insult, this is just my opinion.

the only time when the WWE had the audience was with Austin's segments?

so your saying that the crowd didnt enjoy...DX, The Brood, The corporation, the ministry, the rock, Sable, Mankind?...dude I can go on and on..but if you want to believe that Austin was the only good part of the AE than fine go ahead....Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart started the AE, rock and austin werent even top guys when it started.

I just want you to name another current wrestler more successful than John Cena

 

[sjdigitall]

the only time when the WWE had the audience was with Austin's segments?

so your saying that the crowd didnt enjoy...DX, The Brood, The corporation, the ministry, the rock, Sable, Mankind?...dude I can go on and on..but if you want to believe that Austin was the only good part of the AE than fine go ahead....Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart started the AE, rock and austin werent even top guys when it started.

I just want you to name another current wrestler more successful than John Cena

Well, the only time that they had something groundbreaking was with the Austin segments. Bret & Shawn great wrestlers, but again failures in terms of being the face(s) of the company. Austin brought upon a change ( an not only in ratings).

A current Wrestler more successful then Cena? Well Punk & Bryan are good prospects but nowhere near Cena at the moment. But if you actually read what im typing here, I say Cena is a failure in terms of being the face of a company.
He doesn't have 90-100% of the audience behind him. Now whether you think not having a big proportion of the audience behind you is really all that important then that is your opinion. My belief is that for a successful wrestling promotion you need to have a face that at least 90% of people like. The mixed reaction Cena gets really does reflect where WWE is at the moment with a very mixed, on and off type product. Where sometimes its great and sometimes its downright awful. WWE likes to tell you that the mixed reaction for Cena is so awesome and never been seen before but it is really a big detriment and big deterrent in my eyes.

 

[DetectiveZelix]

Well, the only time that they had something groundbreaking was with the Austin segments. Bret & Shawn great wrestlers, but again failures in terms of being the face(s) of the company. Austin brought upon a change ( an not only in ratings).

A current Wrestler more successful then Cena? Well Punk & Bryan are good prospects but nowhere near Cena at the moment. But if you actually read what im typing here, I say Cena is a failure in terms of being the face of a company.
He doesn't have 90-100% of the audience behind him. Now whether you think not having a big proportion of the audience behind you is really all that important then that is your opinion. My belief is that for a successful wrestling promotion you need to have a face that at least 90% of people like. The mixed reaction Cena gets really does reflect where WWE is at the moment with a very mixed, on and off type product. Where sometimes its great and sometimes its downright awful. WWE likes to tell you that the mixed reaction for Cena is so awesome and never been seen before but it is really a big detriment and big deterrent in my eyes.

I agree completely with you man. The other day someone told me, "Well it doesn't matter if you're cheered or booed as long as you get a reaction" But the same folks say "CM Punk is a terrible heel because he can't get the fans to boo him, same with Ziggler" Well if that's the case John Cena s a terrible face because he can get the fans to cheer him. You can't have it both ways. Then of course they say well John Cena is for kids, you're not supposed to be entertained by him. So then I'm like well what the fuck, how are all of us grown adults supposed to watch wrestling and just play a role because it wasn't meant for us? or because it makes someone sad that we don't enjoy their favorite wrestler John Cena? The guy is boring and yes, his face is plastered everywhere and he's pushed to the moon for the last 7 years but that doesn't make him a good face of the company, it just means the company trust him and chose him to be that, but the fans seem to think differently. The fans have been trying for years to get other people over Cena, but WWE doesn't let it happen. We chose RVD, CM Punk, Randy Orton, Batista etc the list goes on but all WWE does is have him beat them and we're forced to deal with Cena again just like Hulkamania (but at least he had most of the fans on his side) as the only consistent thing in today's wrestling and if we want to watch a WWE televised show, Cena is always a huge part of the show so we cant ignore him.

The guy gets booed so much, if you weren't a wrestling fan you would think he was the bad guy. Like last weeks segment with Bryan, Cena pretty much stole the segment, he should have been quiet and apathetic while Maddox and Bryan went going at it but he's more animated than Bryan and treating him like his little brother trying to protect his own opponent for Summerslam, face or heel that's just something you don't do. You're not supposed to care about what happens to your opponent just know you're gonna kick their ass in the match and that's all.

His role is just too vanilla and until he gets some edge and starts acting like an adult he's never going to have full crowd support. In real life, at your job sometimes you have to step on toes to get where you need to get. You have to break away from groups and friends to excel. You cant always protect everyone and you damn sure don't give up your opportunity for anyone. That's what made guys like Austin and Rock so great, for one they were entertaining, charismatic, more relevant to actual life and the way real humans view things, kicked ass, loved the crowd support but didn't beg for it. Even if half their promos were same sounding, it was entertaining and memorable, things the crowd appreciated and can sing along to, that's why you still hear the infamous "What" chants. People could sing along to their entrance themes, there was just so much more.

Now days WWE are more interactive with the stupid app and stuff but no one cares. The characters are so bland that no one can really get behind them so thats kind of why Cena stands out because he's been there for ages, he's been hated for ages and he just wont go away. The sheer annoyance of that (coupled with him refusing to amp up or change his character in any way) is the reason he's so "Successful"....ok rant over.

But seriously, its not about championships, its not about if the WWE pushes you to the moon, its about how you connect to the audience (positively) and how you will be remembered (Positively). "The champ is here, You cant see me, Lets go Cena, Cena Sucks, You cant wrestler, Same old shit" unfortunately will be the only things the crowd will still chant when Cena leaves or if returns in the future, that's all he really has and it's sad because so many stars from the AE have so much to be remembered and relived when they returned than Cena ever will. Even Bryan's "Yes" is way more over than Cena. I would say the hatred fans have towards Cena keeps him "Over" as well as Mcmahons pride in his "WWE bred John Cena"

 

[Cena's #1 In My Heart]

I get, and like, the point of the series but Cena is a very interesting first choice. There is no-one who can say that John Cena is anything but a success. He his the face of the company; a thirteen time world champion as well as US title, tag-titles and a two Royal Rumbles. He has been an incredible success in the WWE.

Even if someone hates John Cena they cannot suggest that he hasn't had an amazing career filled with outstanding accomplishments.

But is he still a success if the potential of pushing AJ Styles in his place would have doubled WWE's ratings and profits? Just curious.. if you knew that other people would have gotten you more success, is it really a success to waste the top spot on someone who has actually declined viewership and overall revenue since he took over as the top guy 8 years ago?

Cena doesn't wow anyone with a brain when he is in that ring. But Daniel Bryan comes out like a house of fire and JBL can't stop saying how exciting he is and WOW!!! this kid is good! People tune into wrestling for wrestling, believe it or not. And Cena is just a misguided ILLUSSION!!!!!! THAT your ALL ALLOWWINNNGG yourselves to be BLINDDDEEDD BY!

I voted Failure in a heartbeat.

 

[sjdigitall]

But seriously, its not about championships, its not about if the WWE pushes you to the moon, its about how you connect to the audience (positively) and how you will be remembered (Positively).

This. This is what i believe Pro Wrestling is all about at the end of the day. I am of the opinion that anyone that is picked to be the face of the company needs to have 90-100% of the audience. Whether its playing a cookie cutter face or the anti-hero. There needs to be a connection. Hogan had it, Austin had it and The Rock had it. Cena doesnt, i never really thought he had it when he started out and frankly 10 years worth of mixed reactions and even some crowds outright booing him out of the building has really hurt WWE. In my opinion there hasnt been a 'face' of the company for over a decade and its damaging to the product.

Look im not an idiot and know the type of money Cena brings in, which would be in the millions. But is really having a mixed face in the way Cena is really benefecial, espescially right now when WWE are debuting so many new talents. These new characters arent going to gain much by going against Cena, mainly because WWE have built him up in a way where losing cleanly is now basically impossible. The heels will always get devalued by Cena and his mixed reaction.

I am a big Cena-heel supporter, why? Plain and simple WWE needs a monster heel to get new faces over. And if Cena becomes a heel, one that is hated by both kids and adults (this will require WWE Creative to be really good) it will really help out some of the newer guys. I always hear how Cena's heel turn is a bad business move and how WWE will lose millions of viewers.Has anyone thought of it as an investment in their newer talent? A chance for the newer talent to show they can hang in the main event? A chance for the newer talent to become stars? A chance for one of them to become the new face of the WWE?

 

[Cena's #1 In My Heart]

WWE wouldn't lose millions of fans if Cena went heel, lol. They'd all just latch onto Daniel Bryan... oh wait... THEY ALREADY HAVE. Cena has gone heel without even going heel.

Why would anyone want to buy a t-shirt for Wrestler 34 who has just been constantly made to look like a bitch by John Cena? It's kind of embarrassing. WWE says Cena is better, they hold the public's view in their hand, so people just think.. what does the guy with the CM Punk t-shirt know about anything.

Of course perception is changing, largely thanks to CM Punk's "shoot" a few years ago. That was the subject of it afterall.

But the WWE still wages a war.. fake ass Cena verus the wrestlers that can't live up to fake ass Cena because they haven't been afforded the same chances.

 

[Blade]

But is he still a success if the potential of pushing AJ Styles in his place would have doubled WWE's ratings and profits? Just curious.. if you knew that other people would have gotten you more success, is it really a success to waste the top spot on someone who has actually declined viewership and overall revenue since he took over as the top guy 8 years ago?

Cena doesn't wow anyone with a brain when he is in that ring. But Daniel Bryan comes out like a house of fire and JBL can't stop saying how exciting he is and WOW!!! this kid is good! People tune into wrestling for wrestling, believe it or not. And Cena is just a misguided ILLUSSION!!!!!! THAT your ALL ALLOWWINNNGG yourselves to be BLINDDDEEDD BY!

I voted Failure in a heartbeat.

Holy crap, my time machine worked, it's 1984 again!

Are you trolling or just talking out your ass? I swear to god, that's becoming my catchphrase. This is wrestling in the 21st century. There's no such thing as a wrestling company living and dying by their top star. No one man can draw a sell out crowd just from his name being on the bill anymore, and no one man can be the reason for ratings anymore. The internet has made it more complex than that. It's about booking, angles, all of the top stars being entertaining. TNA has proven that by having both Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair, two of the biggest draws of all time, and still not having much in the way of ratings increases.

Secondly, when Cena wants to put on a great match, he can do so. Several superb matches against CM Punk in 2011 and 2012, and plenty of more superb matches in the years before that. Like Chris Jericho says, it takes two wrestlers to have a great match.

Just because John Cena has a different style to Daniel Bryan doesn't mean he's less of a wrestler. Daniel Bryan entertains us with speed and counters, Cena entertains us with his strength and having some of the best storytelling in the business. If you say you're not wowed when Cena does things like lifting up Mark Henry, then you're a liar, embarrassed to admit you're entertained because it might hurt your precious internet street cred.

Both men have excellent matches under their belts, they just put on those matches in different ways. There's no such thing as the "right" style of wrestling, that's an IWC myth perpetrated by morons. Daniel Bryan and John Cena at Summerslam will be a classic, and not because Daniel Bryan is great, which he is, but because Cena is equally great in different ways.

And if they had pushed AJ Styles as their top star, the WWE would be in a worse state than it's in now because Styles has all the charisma and speaking ability of a turnip shaped like a thingy. Or a thingy shaped like a turnip.

 

[Cena's #1 In My Heart]

Holy crap, my time machine worked, it's 1984 again!

Are you trolling or just talking out your ass? I swear to god, that's becoming my catchphrase. This is wrestling in the 21st century. There's no such thing as a wrestling company living and dying by their top star. No one man can draw a sell out crowd just from his name being on the bill anymore, and no one man can be the reason for ratings anymore. The internet has made it more complex than that. It's about booking, angles, all of the top stars being entertaining. TNA has proven that by having both Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair, two of the biggest draws of all time, and still not having much in the way of ratings increases.

Secondly, when Cena wants to put on a great match, he can do so. Several superb matches against CM Punk in 2011 and 2012, and plenty of more superb matches in the years before that. Like Chris Jericho says, it takes two wrestlers to have a great match.

Just because John Cena has a different style to Daniel Bryan doesn't mean he's less of a wrestler. Daniel Bryan entertains us with speed and counters, Cena entertains us with his strength and having some of the best storytelling in the business. If you say you're not wowed when Cena does things like lifting up Mark Henry, then you're a liar, embarrassed to admit you're entertained because it might hurt your precious internet street cred.

Both men have excellent matches under their belts, they just put on those matches in different ways. There's no such thing as the "right" style of wrestling, that's an IWC myth perpetrated by morons. Daniel Bryan and John Cena at Summerslam will be a classic, and not because Daniel Bryan is great, which he is, but because Cena is equally great in different ways.

And if they had pushed AJ Styles as their top star, the WWE would be in a worse state than it's in now because Styles has all the charisma and speaking ability of a turnip shaped like a thingy. Or a thingy shaped like a turnip.

Dude the crowd boos Cena. They clearly don't find him entertaining. Your like Vince, a person who just won't let go already. The times are already passing Cena by.

The top spot is the representation of their company. And with Cena as the top guy it's clearly saying that we like any buff dude who is willing to be our puppet that you'll get over in the slightest and then we'll exploit the hell out of it.

No doubt in my mind if they had someone else as the top guy at some point over the past 8 years, they could potentially be in a better position. Your post just attempted to make me sound insane for stating that the WWE would be better if they had chosen someone other than Cena. You my friend are brainwashed.

 

[Blade]

Dude the crowd boos Cena. They clearly don't find him entertaining. Your like Vince, a person who just won't let go already. The times are already passing Cena by.

No, some of the crowd boos Cena. In some cities, much less than half the crowd boos Cena. And it has nothing to do with whether or not they find Cena entertaining. Cena has put on many, many great matches over his career, but that doesn't matter to the IWC because they're so determined to hate something that's WWE-made despite the fact that they tune in to WWE programming every week.

It's not about Cena. It's about the IWC, a minority in the fanbase that think it's more important to be cool among their friends than it is to enjoy wrestling.

The top spot is the representation of their company. And with Cena as the top guy it's clearly saying that we like any buff dude who is willing to be our puppet that you'll get over in the slightest and then we'll exploit the hell out of it.

That was one clusterfuck of a paragraph.

Cena has millions of fans, puts on good matches, has an incredible work ethic and sends out a good message. That's why he's the representative of the company. Oh, and he makes the company lots of money. That helps, too.

No doubt in my mind if they had someone else as the top guy at some point over the past 8 years, they could potentially be in a better position. Your post just attempted to make me sound insane for stating that the WWE would be better if they had chosen someone other than Cena. You my friend are brainwashed.

Oh boy.

I've already explained to you why it doesn't matter who the face of the company is as much as it used to, but you seemed to ignore that point and rant more about how "the times are already passing Cena by." The irony is incredible.

WWE didn't choose Cena. The fans did. He got over with the fans more than everyone else, so he became the top guy. WWE doesn't care what the IWC thinks. And rightfully so, it doesn't change the fact that Cena is the top guy.

I don't think you know what brainwashed means...

I understand how wrestling works, both as an art form and as a business so much better than you do. It doesn't matter that you and other internet fans don't like Cena. He's the top guy because he's popular, makes money and is an ideal champion.

I feel dirty for replying to you, because it doesn't matter what I say. You're either too stubborn or too ignorant to change your views on Cena because you clearly either didn't fully read or fully understand my post. So let's just call this "debate" quits, huh? I wouldn't wanna get grey repped again, after all.

 

[Kidpolean]

Dude the crowd boos Cena. They clearly don't find him entertaining. Your like Vince, a person who just won't let go already. The times are already passing Cena by.

The top spot is the representation of their company. And with Cena as the top guy it's clearly saying that we like any buff dude who is willing to be our puppet that you'll get over in the slightest and then we'll exploit the hell out of it.

No doubt in my mind if they had someone else as the top guy at some point over the past 8 years, they could potentially be in a better position. Your post just attempted to make me sound insane for stating that the WWE would be better if they had chosen someone other than Cena. You my friend are brainwashed.

The majority of crowds like John Cena...the IWC is really the only people that boo him

Who should the WWE have made the top guy?

 

[DetectiveZelix]

The majority of crowds like John Cena...the IWC is really the only people that boo him

Who should the WWE have made the top guy?

Dude who are you to say the "ICW" are the only ones that boos Cena? So you personally know each and every one of those fans that boo him? You just happen to know they are all on internet wrestling forums and message boards.... I don't understand how you fucks always assume only ICW members dont like Cena or boo Cena. Hell the way it looks on here, alot of "IWC" members lie him and defend him. So that defeats your blanket statement. It's obviously a lot more people boo him in the arenas for the last 7 years. not just the IWC

 

[DetectiveZelix]

The majority of crowds like John Cena...the IWC is really the only people that boo him

Who should the WWE have made the top guy?

Dude who are you to say the "IWC" are the only ones that boos Cena? So you personally know each and every one of those fans that boo him? You just happen to know they are all on internet wrestling forums and message boards.... I don't understand how you fucks always assume only ICW members dont like Cena or boo Cena. Hell the way it looks on here, alot of "IWC" members like him and defend him. So that defeats your blanket statement. It's obviously a lot more people boo him in the arenas for the last 7 years. not just the IWC

 

[DetectiveZelix]

No, some of the crowd boos Cena. In some cities, much less than half the crowd boos Cena. And it has nothing to do with whether or not they find Cena entertaining. Cena has put on many, many great matches over his career, but that doesn't matter to the IWC because they're so determined to hate something that's WWE-made despite the fact that they tune in to WWE programming every week.

It's not about Cena. It's about the IWC, a minority in the fanbase that think it's more important to be cool among their friends than it is to enjoy wrestling.



.

Whats with this idea of people who boo Cena or don't like Cena are trying to be cool? You know, it is possible to not enjoy something and be bored or something and you boo it. There's nothing cool about booing Cena or cheering Ziggler. Its just how some people feel, damn.

 

[Skyeborne]

In my opinion Cena was a successful character for awhile. I think there is two reasons why people hate Cena. The first reason is that he has literally been the same character with a different t-shirt for the last 7 years. He does the same promos and the same matches (you can't say that he isn't good because he has 5 moves of doom, most wrestlers especially babyfaces have 5 moves of doom) with slight variation depending on his opponent. After every PPV he gives the same exact speech. He's gotten boring and predictable, if they changed the character someway I think he would get better.

The second reason I think most people hate him is because he isn't meant to appeal to most of the people who visit forums. He is a character that is meant for kids. You wouldn't watch Sesame Street as an adult looking for entertainment would you? Probably not, so why do you expect to find entertainment from John Cena when he is meant to entertain the kids.

 

[Kidpolean]

Dude who are you to say the "ICW" are the only ones that boos Cena? So you personally know each and every one of those fans that boo him? You just happen to know they are all on internet wrestling forums and message boards.... I don't understand how you fucks always assume only ICW members dont like Cena or boo Cena. Hell the way it looks on here, alot of "IWC" members lie him and defend him. So that defeats your blanket statement. It's obviously a lot more people boo him in the arenas for the last 7 years. not just the IWC

Come on so now were going to pretend we dont know that the IWC hates Cena....I have never in my life boo'ed someone because I was bored with them. A reaction is always a good thing because that means people care to give you one. I hate the Great Khali but i dont boo him at live shows because I dont care enough about him too. The people that boo Cena are mostly having fun while booing him which means that Cena is doing his job. The IWC loves to go against whatever the norm is. I dont care for Cena therefore I dont have a reaction to him at live events. I am not defending Cena in anyway, I just dont like when people say stupid things like Cena is not successful. He is the number 1 wrestler in the World. If there was a wrestling draft Cena would get picked first every time and its not even a contest. His legacy far surpasses any other current wrestler WWE has. That is the definition of SUCCESS. He is at the top and cant go any higher. If you dont like him thats fine...but denying his accomplishments because of your dislike for him is stupid. Cena is not Rock, Austin, or Hogan but he is the closest anyone has ever gotten to them

 

[sjdigitall]

No, some of the crowd boos Cena. In some cities, much less than half the crowd boos Cena.

It's not about Cena. It's about the IWC, a minority in the fanbase that think it's more important to be cool among their friends than it is to enjoy wrestling.

I've already explained to you why it doesn't matter who the face of the company is as much as it used to, but you seemed to ignore that point and rant more about how "the times are already passing Cena by." The irony is incredible.

Just difference of opinion dude. You are of the opinion that it doesnt matter who the face of the company is, We are of the opinion that the face of the company is the leader, is the captain , the guy who represents where the company is going.

Also i dont think its just an IWC thing, hell even look at the poll on this forum. 80% of people on this forum think he is a success. Its just some people dont like him, he doesnt have a majority of the audience with him and im of the opinion that someone that is built as the top guy in the company needs a better reaction than mixed.

 

[DetectiveZelix]

Come on so now were going to pretend we dont know that the IWC hates Cena....I have never in my life boo'ed someone because I was bored with them. A reaction is always a good thing because that means people care to give you one. I hate the Great Khali but i dont boo him at live shows because I dont care enough about him too. The people that boo Cena are mostly having fun while booing him which means that Cena is doing his job. The IWC loves to go against whatever the norm is. I dont care for Cena therefore I dont have a reaction to him at live events. I am not defending Cena in anyway, I just dont like when people say stupid things like Cena is not successful. He is the number 1 wrestler in the World. If there was a wrestling draft Cena would get picked first every time and its not even a contest. His legacy far surpasses any other current wrestler WWE has. That is the definition of SUCCESS. He is at the top and cant go any higher. If you dont like him thats fine...but denying his accomplishments because of your dislike for him is stupid. Cena is not Rock, Austin, or Hogan but he is the closest anyone has ever gotten to them

I hear what you're saying but for one, I've got buddies who have never visited a wrestling site in their entire life, watched Cena on raw booed him from home, so I know they'd boo him if they were there just like them marking out for the Rock at home, they would do that there as well. You may not do it, but that's your perspective, your prerogative. Not everyone is like you. Especially if you pay to see a show.

Every time I go to a show I boo those I don't like and cheer those I do like. Me booing Cena does not mean he's doing a good job. If he were heel then I guess but not as the face of the company which was what the other guy was saying, and I agree. If you're supposed to be the top good guy you shouldn't be receiving boos. He's booed more than other top good guy or face of the company. That's what the other guy was trying to say, he wasn't denying Cena's work in terms of championships, or most TV time or main event status, he was presenting a different judgment scale. To some people, success simply mean championships, time at the time, sealing merch etc,. To others, success means how one connects with the crowd and gives them something to well "Connect" with.

In any case, Cena really doesn't give a lot of fans anything to connect with other than to boo him for being so cookie cutter childlike good guy and almost inhuman. He's just not relatable in the real world. Then there are the people that say, well he's for the kids. Well then why he is feuding with guys a lot of us adults like, and being pushed above everyone, obviously we're "supposed" to like or support him. if not, then are we supposed to look away even if he's feuding with someone we love, or do we boo him because we need something to do during his matches.? I prefer to boo because I came to have fun, Cena isn't providing me with that fun so just as I would an unfunny comedian or terrible dancer, I boo them hoping It would lead to a change, like with Rock and Austin when they both received different reactions they had to go face/ heel and at the time there were no IWC so no one could blame the "wrong" reaction on them. People just blame them now because they don't want to believe that regular casual people can dislike Cena. I don't see how its so hard.


Its like Superman and Batman. A lot of people dislike Superman and love Batman. Does that mean only the IWC or Internet comic book fans dislike Superman? No, just means everyone are not the same and we all have different affinities and opinions. There's really no crime in that. Much like the other guys opinion on Cena not being successful as the face of the company based on a crowd "SUPPORT" level, not just a crowd reaction. Again, when I bring up Punk or Ziggler being cheered, people love to say they aren't doing their job as heels, so I apply the same logic to Cena.

I understand your perspective of Cena being successful, you have every right to feel that way and the way you're grading it is obviously different than the other guy. That's what you need to understand....or not, its your life and this is just the internet. Furthermore, even if he was the number 1 wrestler in the world and I use that very loosely, then this poll wouldn't be in existence, people would not be addressing the hate in every post even before the "haters" roll in and our brains would all be programmed to agree unanimously that Cena is the greatest...well, not everyone thinks like that and if we had a grading scale here then I think some of the "Haters" answers would be different.

And by default I completely agree with your last sentence.

 

[Kidpolean]

the original question was Is John Cena a success....it had nothing to do with being the face of the company, nothing to do with the rock, hogan, or austin. I feel that the face of the company success argument was added just to hate on Cena....Just being the face of the company should automatically be considered a success. He is the top guy..there is nobody above him...If Cena is not successful how could you possibly justify calling any other current wrestler successful? That is like if im the CEO of a company and someone calls me unsuccessful but then turns around and calls one of my secretary's successful..That doesn't make sense

Cena doesnt give the audience anything to connect with? yea thats why he sales more merch and gets chosen for Make a Wish more than any other wrestler on this planet

Number 1 wrestler in the Number 1 company makes you the number 1 wrestler in the world...Im not talking wrestling ability and quite frankly that doesnt matter when it comes to being the top wrestler in the world...This is a business, the guy that can put the most people in seats and bring in the most money is the number 1 wrestler. Cena is the top guy in WWE which makes him the top wrestler in the world. That shouldn't even be debatable

 

[Bernkastel]

This thread is starting to give me a headache...

Is John Cena a success? Yes, and you'd be a fool not to say so. The man is a the biggest moneymaker the WWE has had since the Rock. For 8 years the guys been THE marque, THE headliner, THE big thing. And that's because no other star of the modern era is more marketable than Cena. Not Punk, not Ziggler, not Sheamus, and not Orton. Who cares if people boo Cena - the only thing that matters is that people pay to come see him. And fans, old and alike, react to Cena like no one else. Every match, every angle, every story line involving the man gets people excited. Case in point when WWE can bill Cena for a huge PPV, and each and every time both the attendance turnout and DVD sales are huge, that's saying something.

There's a reason why Cena is constantly in the main event being "shoved down our throats" because he's good for business. Turning him heel, or changing his character, wouldn't be good for business or else the WWE would have done it already. Their primarily objective is to make money, and Cena makes them more than anyone else, and has been doing so for the better part of 10 years.

John Cena has been a huge success. It's undeniable. Not only that but he's easily among the Top 15 of the biggest draws of all time.

 

[DetectiveZelix]

the original question was Is John Cena a success....it had nothing to do with being the face of the company, nothing to do with the rock, hogan, or austin. I feel that the face of the company success argument was added just to hate on Cena....Just being the face of the company should automatically be considered a success. He is the top guy..there is nobody above him...If Cena is not successful how could you possibly justify calling any other current wrestler successful? That is like if im the CEO of a company and someone calls me unsuccessful but then turns around and calls one of my secretary's successful..That doesn't make sense

Cena doesnt give the audience anything to connect with? yea thats why he sales more merch and gets chosen for Make a Wish more than any other wrestler on this planet

Number 1 wrestler in the Number 1 company makes you the number 1 wrestler in the world...Im not talking wrestling ability and quite frankly that doesnt matter when it comes to being the top wrestler in the world...This is a business, the guy that can put the most people in seats and bring in the most money is the number 1 wrestler. Cena is the top guy in WWE which makes him the top wrestler in the world. That shouldn't even be debatable

The OP was very general in his question allowing us to have the freedom to judge Cena on our own scale. You are basically saying everyone on here should have voted 100% yes and all of our posts should say yes Cena is the best because he sold lots of merchandise and granted unlimited wishes.....Well everyone doesn't see it that way. Some of us don't use those elements to determine success.

Thats like myself at my job I've volunteered for lots of charity events, I've gotten employee of the month numerous times, I show up early, leave late, am courteous to my customers. have gotten 3 raises so far. My boss really likes me...dear lord I sound like John Cena now, but seriously at my job I really feel I am an exemplary employee. However, If Joe blow believes my success should be measured by my communicative and social skills then I fail because quite frankly I keep to myself and don't talk to most if not any of my co workers and can care less about them, don't participate in potlucks, nor do I ask for any assistance or associate with any of them. So is Joe wrong for his assessment based of his opinion on what a great employee is...or say Sally Sue believes a great employee should dress nice and be innovative and bring new suggestions to the company, which I don't, so would I be successful in her eyes? No. The point is people see things differently.

If the OP asked facts and stated on a more specific scale on how we are to grade John Cena then maybe some of us would be compelled just smile and nod if the facts are straight. But then if that was the case, then wouldn't be a discussion it would be a lecture. He wanted feedback from the members of WZ on if we believe john Cena overall is a success, Not everyone believes he is because not everyone goes by the things you've listed.

How is that so hard to understand? At least "Yes" got the majority of votes. Are you not satisfied with that?...that's the thing about people who defend Cena. Even when people have legitimate reasons...or rather legitimate opinions (Oxymoron) as to why Cena isn't the best they still have to try to change their mind with Make a wish bullshit, role model, selling merch blah blah blah. Steve Austin did the same thing, granted wishes, sold merch, but he was also very much enjoyable and entertaining and connected with the audience. I never said Cena doesn't connect at all, but not in the way the face of the company or even a "Successful" face should. See-Austin, See Bret Hart (prior to feud with Austin) See-Rock, See-Mick Foley, See-Daniel Bryan the list goes on...

 

[Bernkastel]

The OP was very general in his question allowing us to have the freedom to judge Cena on our own scale. You are basically saying everyone on here should have voted 100% yes and all of our posts should say yes Cena is the best because he sold lots of merchandise and granted unlimited wishes.....Well everyone doesn't see it that way. Some of us don't use those elements to determine success.

So John Cena isn't WWE's biggest moneymaker and top draw? Well please, enlighten me who is.

Thats like myself at my job I've volunteered for lots of charity events, I've gotten employee of the month numerous times, I show up early, leave late, am courteous to my customers. have gotten 3 raises so far. My boss really likes me...dear lord I sound like John Cena now

Are you making money for your company by doing these things, putting them over with new fans via advertisements, public appearances, and charity? If so, then yes, you are just like him.

However, If Joe blow believes my success should be measured by my communicative and social skills then I fail because quite frankly I keep to myself and don't talk to most if not any of my co workers and can care less about them, don't participate in potlucks, nor do I ask for any assistance or associate with any of them.

Then obviously you aren't like Cena then, who makes his company money, which is basically the only thing they care about, because they want to stay in business.

So is Joe wrong for his assessment based of his opinion on what a great employee is...or say Sally Sue believes a great employee should dress nice and be innovative and bring new suggestions to the company, which I don't, so would I be successful in her eyes? No. The point is people see things differently.

And the fans obviously don't mind spending money on John Cena. They'll buy his merchandise, they'll buy tickets to shows he's featured heavily on, and they'll buy DVD's that showcase him.

The "opinion" that Cena is a terrible employee is obviously a stupid one when he succeeds at doing the one thing that WWE wants him to do - and that's make them money.

If the OP asked facts and stated on a more specific scale on how we are to grade John Cena then maybe some of us would be compelled just smile and nod if the facts are straight. But then if that was the case, then wouldn't be a discussion it would be a lecture. He wanted feedback from the members of WZ on if we believe john Cena overall is a success, Not everyone believes he is because not everyone goes by the things you've listed.

The OP asked for us to gauge his career. In professional wrestling the career of a pro wrestler is summed up by how strong of a draw they are. Things like psychology, and working, and selling, and charisma, and speaking ability, and execution are nothing but tools.

John Cena is a huge draw; the largest in 10 years. Obviously his career's been an overwhelming success.

How is that so hard to understand? At least "Yes" got the majority of votes. Are you not satisfied with that?...that's the thing about people who defend Cena.

I guess it's my opinion that Ric Flair was shit, and doesn't deserve the credentials he's received because he's a shit wrestler. Do you agree? Do you think Ric Flair fans that know how good he was are going to agree to disagree?

Even when people have legitimate reasons...or rather legitimate opinions (Oxymoron) as to why Cena isn't the best they still have to try to change their mind with Make a wish bullshit, role model, selling merch blah blah blah.

And what were those reasons? I've actually yet to see anyone actually list any.

Steve Austin did the same thing, granted wishes, sold merch, but he was also very much enjoyable and entertaining and connected with the audience. I never said Cena doesn't connect at all, but not in the way the face of the company or even a "Successful" face should. See-Austin, See Bret Hart (prior to feud with Austin) See-Rock, See-Mick Foley, See-Daniel Bryan the list goes on...

Steve Austin made WWE lots of money. John Cena made WWE lots of money. How are those not the same thing? How are they both not successes?

If you want to imply that Cena was failure for not drawing as much money as Austin, then Austin was a failure for not drawing as much money as Hogan.

 

[DetectiveZelix]

So John Cena isn't WWE's biggest moneymaker and top draw? Well please, enlighten me who is.



Are you making money for your company by doing these things, putting them over with new fans via advertisements, public appearances, and charity? If so, then yes, you are just like him.



Then obviously you aren't like Cena then, who makes his company money, which is basically the only thing they care about, because they want to stay in business.



And the fans obviously don't mind spending money on John Cena. They'll buy his merchandise, they'll buy tickets to shows he's featured heavily on, and they'll buy DVD's that showcase him.

The "opinion" that Cena is a terrible employee is obviously a stupid one when he succeeds at doing the one thing that WWE wants him to do - and that's make them money.



The OP asked for us to gauge his career. In professional wrestling the career of a pro wrestler is summed up by how strong of a draw they are. Things like psychology, and working, and selling, and charisma, and speaking ability, and execution are nothing but tools.

John Cena is a huge draw; the largest in 10 years. Obviously his career's been an overwhelming success.



I guess it's my opinion that Ric Flair was shit, and doesn't deserve the credentials he's received because he's a shit wrestler. Do you agree? Do you think Ric Flair fans that know how good he was are going to agree to disagree?



And what were those reasons? I've actually yet to see anyone actually list any.



Steve Austin made WWE lots of money. John Cena made WWE lots of money. How are those not the same thing? How are they both not successes?

If you want to imply that Cena was failure for not drawing as much money as Austin, then Austin was a failure for not drawing as much money as Hogan.

Again you're judging this totally on what WWE sees as a success. That's the biggest and well, only difference between our "Opinions" here. The other guy and myself are acting more like fans giving out colloquial opinion as you are giving WWE's opinion. We are comparing apples and oranges here. You are thinking like someone who works in WWE while I am thinking like a fan who watches a product to enjoy. That kind of gives the "IWC" a bad name because "They" (You) like to act as if you are actually a member of the WWE's corporate structure as rather the other part of the same "IWC" (Me) like to view things the way "I" as a person, fan, member of the WWE "Universe" do.

You completely missed everything I was saying.

And if you think Ric was a shit wrestler that's great for you. Why would I debate that with you if that's your opinion? Ric Flair fans are going to give you shit for it, which really makes no sense because no one should be that butthurt to argue with someone over a difference of opinion. Hell, I've never argued with a Cena fan that came out and said Cena's the greatest because I believe everyone's allowed their opinions, now if the Cena fan said I think Cena's the greates, do you agree? Then that's another story....but of course, when Cena's the subject, there will always be arguments. What's even funnier is how everyone addresses the hate as if they're waiting for the "Haters" to roll in and bring the fight. Just looks childish and unnecessary.


Simply put, if the OP stated on the subject of making the company the most money, Charitable, PR interviews and so on, who's the most successful, then obviously the answer is Cena because there are clear facts to support that and it really wouldn't be a discussion, just a consensus of people agreeing on the same thing because they're forced to


The reasons why Cena hasn't been the most successful, at least to me as a "Face" is again, he does not have full crowd support, he gets booed quite a bit and often even more than the heel. His promos have been sleep inducing. His character has been terrible for years, just not relatable and no reason for me to cheer for him. Don't use the Make a wish, merch selling etc because that's not what I am basing this on....mind you these are my opinions as to why the face of the company that I am a "Fan" of is not successful in my book, not WWE's book or your book or anyone else as far as I am concerned

 

[DetectiveZelix]

Whats even funnier is I voted neutral because it goes either way for me. I just haven't enjoyed him much so I never deemed him a failure or success. It just bothers me when I see people pick on other people for stating their opinion

 

[Bernkastel]

Again you're judging this totally on what WWE sees as a success.

The WWE wants to take money from the fans to remain in business. The fans want to give money to the WWE so that they can stay in business. How are they not the same thing?

That's the biggest and well, only difference between our "Opinions" here.

Do you think you know more about what's best for WWE's business than they do? Because I certainly don't. I see what works for them and I don't want that to change. If not, then why are you even arguing? Just admit to the obvious success that is John Cena.

The other guy and myself are acting more like fans giving out colloquial opinion as you are giving WWE's opinion.

So you believe your opinions on whether or not John Cena is a success are worth more than WWE's...right .

We are comparing apples and oranges here.

We are comparing objectivity to subjectivity.

The only thing that matters when grading the success of a wrestler from an objective standpoint isn't how fans react to them as individuals, it's how the collective of fans view them as a whole and the company uses them.

If WWE sees Cena as a success - which very clearly he is, and has been for years, because the collective of fans see him as a success - then it's factual.

You are thinking like someone who works in WWE while I am thinking like a fan who watches a product to enjoy.

You are but one voice in a sea of millions. Your sole voice is meaningless compared to the collective voice of the whole. And obviously the whole has no problems with Cena, otherwise they would not being paying copious amounts of money to be entertained by him.

That kind of gives the "IWC" a bad name because "They" (You) like to act as if you are actually a member of the WWE's corporate structure as rather the other part of the same "IWC" (Me) like to view things the way "I" as a person, fan, member of the WWE "Universe" do.

At this point even casuals are considered part of the "IWC" because the way the internet has been so ingrained in our daily lives. Opinions of the one voice only have bearing when dealing in subjective terms, and since the OP obviously wants us to be sincere in our grading on the subject, we're now dealing in objective terms - which is the voice of the whole/the WWE's voice.

And if you think Ric was a shit wrestler that's great for you. Why would I debate that with you if that's your opinion? Ric Flair fans are going to give you shit for it, which really makes no sense because no one should be that butthurt to argue with someone over a difference of opinion.

If there was a smiley for a concept going over someone's head, I'd insert it here.

Hell, I've never argued with a Cena fan that came out and said Cena's the greatest because I believe everyone's allowed their opinions, now if the Cena fan said I think Cena's the greates, do you agree?

Cena, the greatest of the modern era? Yes. Of all time? No. Those are objective.

If we weren't being serious and were dealing in subjective terms only then my opinion would be different. But we aren't, because the OP wants us to be serious. Saying that Cena is anything other than a success is not being serious.

Simply put, if the OP stated on the subject of making the company the most money, Charitable, PR interviews and so on, who's the most successful, then obviously the answer is Cena because there are clear facts to support that and it really wouldn't be a discussion, just a consensus of people agreeing on the same thing because they're forced to

If the OP didn't want us to be serious and tackle this question objectively, then he would have stated so.

If you subjectively don't think highly of Cena, then that's your business; but, if you can't recognize how good is from an objective standpoint, then that reflects very poorly on you.