Here's the thing, Paul has said in interviews that ECW while it was his baby, wasnt what he intended, but he had to do it to survive. His talent roster was terrible most of the time he owned the company and the stars he did get were quickly eaten up by WCW, who were trying to bankrupt ECW. Haymen said that he put on that type of show because due to lack of talent and funds the only way to survive was to be different, the exact opposite of the other companies.
He has also stated that if he was to take over TNA he would want a 5 year, $5,000,000 a year, total control over the roster and personnel, and free reign on creative. He didnt want to deal with the politics or the checkbook. He said if TNA wanted to have him then they needed to be ready for him and since he didn't believe the company was serious about competing on any level with any other company he was upping his price tag and if they were serious they would agree, if not they would refuse.
Heyman just flat said point blank that TNA wasn't ready to hire a real, pure, wrestling mind and visionary to run their company and take them to the next level and they proved that by not agreeing to turn over creative/personnel control to him, if she would have done that he would have lowered his price tag but since she didnt agree then he wasn't going to take time away from his daughters for any less than $5 Mil a year.
TNA wasnt ready for Paul Heyman, and they may never will be. Hell TNA wasnt ready for Jim Cornette either, yet if they hired those two to run the show, (Heyman from creative and presonnel and Cornette from production) IMPACT would be huge. Dixie Carter is just afraid to give up that type of control and it is killing the company.
Yet, she gives up control to Hogan Bischoff and Russo.
Ain't that a blip?
Adding Jim Cornette to the equation? .....i just got goose bumps.....
if those two could get along and make that happen...i'd be GLUED to imact every week.
Another thing, you need the old wrestlers because people know them. If you ask people about Hogan, well people will recognize him. I you ask people about A.J. Styles , well it won't be the same reaction as if you asked people about Hogan.
I agree. Name recognition is important though I do agree with getting rid of stagnant wrestlers over 40. However Not ALL wrestlers over 40. I've read a lot of what people here had to say, and people like Kurt Angle who are over 40 but can still go, should be able to stay. Hogan and Flair, though I would use them in the back and to be ambassadors for the brand. I understand what youre saying and I think you're right in that regard.
Though on smackdown, though he did have Vince in his ear overriding certain things, he was allowed to do a lot which means, he was BIG part of revitalizing smackdown at that time.
Yes. As I've said FIFTY FUCKING TIMES, anyone can book when they have talent around them. This isn't saying Heyman is great or bad. It says he's NORMAL.
And again, the fact that he ran out of money has zero connection to his ability as a booker. We've been over this. ECW running out of money has no connection to him being able to book a good show. You can have the greatest show ever on a budget of 8 dollars or you can have a budget of 10 billion and have a terrible show. It's not connected.
Heyman as a businessman.
Heyman as a booker.
See how they're separate? That's because they're different things. If I have to spell it out for you so be it. Heyman being a bad businessman is no justification for questionable or bad booking decisions. It's his fault for trying to do everything and he should get blamed for it.
Oh it's another person that thinks opinions can't be wrong. I get it. See, here's the thing: I've forgotten more about this than you'll ever learn, and I'm likely far more intelligent than you, so I'll let it slide that you don't get this, but trust me: opinions can be wrong. Mine aren't.
Correction: I don't believe that. I know that. And again, booker and businessman are different things.
You mean a company having no money can make it fail? Wow you learn something new every day!
Uh....sure.
Say it with me so you'll learn it too: when people have talent around them, they can make good shows. When they don't have talent around them and they make good shows, that shows talent. Having talent around you and making a good show simply means you didn't fuck it up.
Ok Clear. I'll be KB.
Always wanted to use that joke.
I'm not sure if it was all the "it's my opinion" weak excuses or the various formatting that made my head hurt, but in short, Heyman failed in ECW and his best success was when the sixth best wrestler he had was Eddie Guerrero. Half the people here could book a good show in those conditions.
Now, if you think that a guy that was competent at best can save TNA, have fun believing that.
I think its unnecessary to be an A$$ in your commentary. We are two people who obviously have different ideas on the subject and that's fine. But don't disrespect me and I won't disrespect you. Lets at least TRY to be civil?
Thanks.
[/QUOTE]
You're
TRYING to get me to be ignorant aren't you? You want me to let you have it. I'm doing my best to have a civil disagreement with you without the name calling or references to who's smarter or just rudeness all together, but you want that don't you? Whether you know it all or know nothing AT all, means absolutely positively unequivocally nothin to me. I asked everyone's opinions about a subject, that was totally my OWN opinion. Right or Wrong is irrelevant. You agree or you disagree but you don't be an A$$ about it. I don't care WHAT you know. I don't care WHAT you've forgotten. I don't give to craps and a piss about your knowledge of the wrestling business at this point. You're opinions are moot to me because you can't seem to share your opinions without trying to make someone look as if they're ignorant for even having it! So, I'll be Clear, and You be KB:
IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING RESPECTFUL TO SAY, STAY OUT OF THIS FORUM. IF YOU FEEL LIKE THIS IS A REHASHING OF MORE OF THE SAME FOR YOU, THEN GO THE FREAK AWAY. IF YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE TALKING TO A MORON OR A BUNCH OF MORONS, THEN LEAVE US TO OUR OWN DEVICES. Remember, if you're doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results, its called insanity....so well...yeah...what you're doing is clearly defined.
IN SHORT: If you wanna be smarter than a 5th grader do that with Jeff Foxworthy. In THIS forum everyones opinion is to be RESPECTED whether you agree or not. If you can't figure out a way to be respectful, then screw what you know. You can take all of your vast wealth of knowledge to the MIT version of wrestlezone at
www.idon'tgiveacrapwhatyouthink.com
Have a nice day.
I loved the original ECW and I loved Heyman's work in it. It sounds like many of the people here at least had a great deal of respect for it. Heyman has demonstrated in ECW, Ohio Valley and on Samckdown an ability to book/write in a way that doesn't copy his own product. Not seeming very interested in going back to wrestling has at least offered some advice to a popular TNA.
But do I see him as the saviour of TNA? No. I see him as someone who would be a very good asset to the company. I see him as someone who has the ability to take talent that is being underutilized and making them shine, and someone who can stick to a long term plan to help improve the product overall.
I see TNA right now as having too much invested in the current crew of Russo, Bischoff, Hogan and Flair to switch so quicly without complication. Bischoff and Heyman have run their promotions in the past and have entirely different ways of doing this, and if he's having to work with either of the first 2 mentioned this is simply not going to work. I have no clue if there is any heat between him, hogan or Flair so I can't speak to that but this really brings home the real question that underlines the main topic:
Is TNA failing with the current staff that they have?
They storylines are far from the best or original, We are seeing many older faces or recent WWE ones making their way there, and it obviously irritates a lot of people myself included. But in simplest terms, as much as we hate it, it's not failing. Be it from kneejerk reaction to the idea of Bischoff, Russo and Hogan in yet another promotion with any measure of control, or seeing some things that we don't see as working (Immortal, the Copying of 2/21/11, Jeff Hardy's new heel character, etc) people haven't all turned off the TV when TNA comes on.
I personally don't care for it, and I didn't care for the last days of WCW, save for Booker T finally getting over as champion and staying in the main event. And I did follow ECW right up until Living Dangerously in 2001, and thought that despite the lack of big talent they were still giving us solid matches more of what I did enjoy.
But putting Heyman in charge isn't going to be the automatic changeover so many think it will be. It took time for TNA to get to this point under the current staff, and there would definitely be growing pains putting in a new booker, writer, or new leader as it were.
We're looking at this with rose colored glasses I think. Heyman was very good at what he did, and I would love to see him working in a promotion he's not financially responsible for. Heyman could still be of great use to TNA.
But not as things are, and not with guaranteed results if he got there. The wrestling business isn't the same as it was even when he was running Smackdown or when ECW first returned to the WWE. It's part of the reason I don't think Russo and co.'s method of idea and story regurgitation is going to have good long term effects. It's getting the kneejerk reaction but won't guarantee to stay interesting. Heyman's original vision and product did a great deal for the business but it won't guarantee the same results it did.
I would however still like to see how it would play out.
One person's view.
I respect that. I think you're right in the aspect that it wouldn't be an overnight change. I think that it would take time, and even he said that he would have a 4-5 year plan to get things done. I mean I think that the reason why TNA is tanking so bad right now is because they're trying to become competition IMMEDIATELY. you know what i'm sayin? Like they're not giving themselves a chance to grow, but rather pulling in as much WWE sendoffs as possible to get name recognition, and wasting money on celebs that aren't bringing any attention to the brand. I mean if you're gonna waste money anyway, why not give it to Heyman and let him come in and take the time its GOING to take, to build your company into the monster it can become to compete with wwe, later on.....
in short, i agree with you...lol
