Years ago, Paul Heyman was the head writer for Smackdown back when they were doing the angles such as Takers feud vs Vince, along with Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar. In my opinion, Paul Heyman should be head of the writing staff in the WWE as his expreiance is true and his hardcore liking to wrestling could bring back a lot of the Attitude Era fans if he pushed the right buttons. Should Vince consider looking into buying into Paul Heyman again?
Paul Heyman
- Thread starter 8kcht3
- Start date
No. Fuck no.
Look, Paul Heyman ain't coming back, and even if he was, it wouldn't nearly be as great as you imagine. This is the same guy that brought you, and in no particular order;
Vince VS Stephanie
The new LOD of Animal and Heidenreich
Al Wilson
The Concrete Crypt
Do I need to go on?
Smackdown was largley saved by great wrestling, why overshadowed Heyman's largely shot stories. Bringing Heyman back is going to make the product worse.
Plus, Steph is head of creative, fat chance Vince is ever replacing her
Look, Paul Heyman ain't coming back, and even if he was, it wouldn't nearly be as great as you imagine. This is the same guy that brought you, and in no particular order;
Vince VS Stephanie
The new LOD of Animal and Heidenreich
Al Wilson
The Concrete Crypt
Do I need to go on?
Smackdown was largley saved by great wrestling, why overshadowed Heyman's largely shot stories. Bringing Heyman back is going to make the product worse.
Plus, Steph is head of creative, fat chance Vince is ever replacing her
The thing with Paul Heyman is that his love for UFC alarms me. He seems to be one of those guys that wants wrestling to move in the direction of being a hyper-realistic worked version of MMA. Makes me cringe just thinking about that. Keep him the hell away IMO.
Richard Blonoff
Make America Rassle Again
It worries me a little that the Attitude Era ended over ten years ago and fans still think it will make a come back. It isn't like the business is on its last leg, its still doing fairly well. Wrestling has gone in cycles. It had a boom in the late 80s, it dipped in the mid 90s, then the late 90s and early 00s were high, its in a lower point now. Just give it time. The end of the Attitude Era didn't cause as many people to leave as everyone says
Plus not everything Heyman did was gold. He is better than average but he often shows little to no loyalty to veterans and will push a lot of unproven talent due to it.
Plus not everything Heyman did was gold. He is better than average but he often shows little to no loyalty to veterans and will push a lot of unproven talent due to it.
Never really seen much of Hayman's work.
I think the head of creative on SD! now is doing a hell of a job. We got feuds like Bryan and Sheamus, Orton and Kane, and Cody and Big Show going into Mania.
Lets not forget the epic year Smackdown has had. Randy vs Christian, Sheamus becoming a top guy, Henry's domination, Bryan's rise, Cody's rise, and many many other things.
I think the head of creative on SD! now is doing a hell of a job. We got feuds like Bryan and Sheamus, Orton and Kane, and Cody and Big Show going into Mania.
Lets not forget the epic year Smackdown has had. Randy vs Christian, Sheamus becoming a top guy, Henry's domination, Bryan's rise, Cody's rise, and many many other things.
jacdnwarrior
Championship Contender
I like Heyman as a writer. I'm sure he's had his failures but every one who has success will fail at some point. I'd like to see him return because I think the storylines are shit, but Vince fucked things up so much with Heyman, that Heyman was begging to leave. Anything is possible, but I think Heyman's return to WWE will be highly unlikely.
Look ... I think Heyman was one of the best to happen to wrestling. There was a poll around these parts a while back asking the most important person of the 90s and I voted Heyman. He made ECW and it was pretty much his ... and for a few years there it was actually really good and really important.
But as a whole ... Heyman's time has passed. He was good when he had to be good to make a name for himself and his company. Then he kind of became a little too full of himself.
He acts like Brock Lesnar's entire career belongs to him ... and it is ridiculous and I think one of the many things that pisses Vince off about Paul. I don't think you will see him around WWE again anytime soon ... if ever.
But as a whole ... Heyman's time has passed. He was good when he had to be good to make a name for himself and his company. Then he kind of became a little too full of himself.
He acts like Brock Lesnar's entire career belongs to him ... and it is ridiculous and I think one of the many things that pisses Vince off about Paul. I don't think you will see him around WWE again anytime soon ... if ever.
multiverseman.com
Getting Noticed By Management
UFC is on fire. WWE is passe and dying. You want what you want and if a guy wants to focus on what's in instead of what's out, I'll take that guy's opinion over yours.
Besides the fact that "hyper-realistic UFC style meets WWE" sound fantastic to me.
How many of those ideas were his and how many were forced on him?
By the way, Vince vs. (insert McMahon) has been done in every combination. How is Vince vs. Stephanie Heyman's fault?
Heidenreich might've been worse than he was without Heyman. We'll never know.
Whose idea was it to focus on the wrestling? Fact is, things were good so when things go well, you can thank the head guy. You certainly gave him credit for the bad stuff.
So let me get this straight, you want me to give him credit for all the good he did, yet exonerate him from all the bad stuff, saying that it's Vince and Steph's fault?
Yeah, there's no hypocritical message.
Also, fine, let's take away everything bad from Heyman's run on Smackdown. What wow'ed you about his run on ECW that made you think this man must be writing Smackdown again? Did the Big Show as ECW champion enthrall you that much?
Heyman is nowhere near the Booker anyone thinks he is. His stuff ran it's course in 2000, and was smoke and mirrored by the fact that he had Angle, Lesnar, Benoit, and Guerrero to have twenty minutes matches, so his drivel writing wouldn't plague my screen
Yeah, there's no hypocritical message.
Also, fine, let's take away everything bad from Heyman's run on Smackdown. What wow'ed you about his run on ECW that made you think this man must be writing Smackdown again? Did the Big Show as ECW champion enthrall you that much?
Heyman is nowhere near the Booker anyone thinks he is. His stuff ran it's course in 2000, and was smoke and mirrored by the fact that he had Angle, Lesnar, Benoit, and Guerrero to have twenty minutes matches, so his drivel writing wouldn't plague my screen
Paul Heyman is absolutely brilliant. What he was able to do with the original ECW was phenomenal, and there are very few minds in the business today with his resume. Not everything he's done was golden, however...but that is the same for every writer, period. There are going to be hits and misses, but his overall track record is way better than what we have been getting for the last few years. His UFC infatuation is actually something a lot of wrestling fans share, also his good friend Brock Lesnar was there so of course he supports it. Doesn't mean he would try to bend pro wrestling that direction. I believe he is way smarter than to try something like that. Either way I'd love to see him get a crack at it if he were even interested at this point. I really think TNA screwed themselves when they didn't hand him the keys to that ship when they had the chance, we would be looking at a whole different landscape in wrestling.
OneTooManyPunts
Pre-Show Stalwart
Make no mistake about it, as others have said, Heyman was a genius for what he did with ECW, whether you loved the product or hated it. He knew exactly what to do to counteract what WCW and WWE were doing at the time. That is what Heyman was always good at, counteracting the competition to offer an alternative. He can't really do that in the WWE now...there is no alternative.
TNA is the closest thing to competition WWE has, and there really is no need to try and sway viewership away from them, or counteract their product.
Heyman also loves to use risque and envelope pushing to its fullest. You can't do that at this point in the PG Era. The fact that WWE is letting Rock and Cena drop the word 'bitch' on a weekly basis is surprising enough.
If anything, TNA should have pulled the trigger on hiring Heyman years ago when he was still remotely interested in working for them. Beyond that, I think his time in pro wrestling has come and gone.
TNA is the closest thing to competition WWE has, and there really is no need to try and sway viewership away from them, or counteract their product.
Heyman also loves to use risque and envelope pushing to its fullest. You can't do that at this point in the PG Era. The fact that WWE is letting Rock and Cena drop the word 'bitch' on a weekly basis is surprising enough.
If anything, TNA should have pulled the trigger on hiring Heyman years ago when he was still remotely interested in working for them. Beyond that, I think his time in pro wrestling has come and gone.
ITrippedTheShockmaster
A Role Model and Paragon of Virtue
While I think Heyman revolutionized wrestling when ECW became "extreme," I agree with a lot of the other posters here that his time in the industry has passed. I watched him though most of his career, and I enjoyed a lot of what he did. However, pro wrestling continues to evolve in many ways (not all, but many), and Heyman's style just isn't the direction WWE is heading.
Yes, he brought the grit back to pro wrestling after the camp and over-the-top bombast of the 80s was starting to run its course. ECW paved the way for the WWE's Attitude Era, which alone gives what he did during that time merit. Now, WWE is in PG mode (well, maybe not after Rock/Cena's "bitch" fest as of late), and Heyman's style was always PG-13 and up.
Yes, during his run as a head writer in WWF/E, he had some really crappy programs. I actually liked him as an on-screen character, even back to the old Paul E. Dangerously days. I'd like him to come back just as a true heel color commentator, since WWE can't seem to establish one anymore w/Cole being so annoying in trying to be the only heelish announcer.
And, like what was said earlier, he's much more into ultimate fighting now and is pretty busy with his Heyman Hustle, so I just don't see him coming back. What's in it for him? He wouldn't be head of creative because Stephanie's in that role now. If he's not in charge, I don't see why he'd come back. Yes, his ego is bigger than it should be, but that's just how he is.
Maybe if Brock Lesnar comes back, he'll tag along. But I see both as highly unlikely.
Move along, people. Move along.
Yes, he brought the grit back to pro wrestling after the camp and over-the-top bombast of the 80s was starting to run its course. ECW paved the way for the WWE's Attitude Era, which alone gives what he did during that time merit. Now, WWE is in PG mode (well, maybe not after Rock/Cena's "bitch" fest as of late), and Heyman's style was always PG-13 and up.
Yes, during his run as a head writer in WWF/E, he had some really crappy programs. I actually liked him as an on-screen character, even back to the old Paul E. Dangerously days. I'd like him to come back just as a true heel color commentator, since WWE can't seem to establish one anymore w/Cole being so annoying in trying to be the only heelish announcer.
And, like what was said earlier, he's much more into ultimate fighting now and is pretty busy with his Heyman Hustle, so I just don't see him coming back. What's in it for him? He wouldn't be head of creative because Stephanie's in that role now. If he's not in charge, I don't see why he'd come back. Yes, his ego is bigger than it should be, but that's just how he is.
Maybe if Brock Lesnar comes back, he'll tag along. But I see both as highly unlikely.
Move along, people. Move along.
multiverseman.com
Getting Noticed By Management
No I want you to give him equal credit for the good stuff he as well as the bad stuff. Unlike what you are doing.
Or at the very least, admit you have no idea which parts were his and acknowledge that the show was simply better when he ran it.
I assume you meant nu-ECW and not old ECW. Old ECW should be self-explanatory. New ECW was terrible and everyone knows why, none of which has to do with Heyman, as has been documented everywhere.
Sounds like you've got some kind of personal bias against the man. Drivel? Heyman "ran his course in 2000" because he hasn't really done much since then or been interested in doing so. This is all speculation anyway.
ShinobiMusashi
Getting Noticed By Management
Heyman has proven his booking skills in Ohio Valley Wrestling when he was sent there after One Night Stand 2005. They were jammin under his direction. They were drawing bigger crowds that were much more fired up about the promotion.
His time in the ECW as the booker was underrated in my opinion. He took a bunch of guys that had little to zero talent, too short, too skinny, no good on the mic, no good on the mat, and turned them into an integral part of the show. If you can get guys like Balls Mahoney, and Hack Myers(the Hacksaw Jim Duggans of ECW history) over as they were, you are doing something right with the booking. Heyman was just so in tune with his crowds. What better way to get talentless bums like Balls Mahoney and Axle Rotten over than by putting Pantera shirts on them! Who doesn't love a guy in a Pantera shirt! Probobly guys that didn't like ECW anyways.
Heyman's Taz mma character was unbelievable in the original ECW from late 95 to 98. One of my favorite characters in pro wrestling history, mainly because of the way he was booked. They built him up into this legit fighting monster who couldn't be beat, but he still managed to keep the crowd in love with him(as opposed to the way fans started to turn on Goldberg before the end of 98). What better way to end an undefeated streak than by putting the man through the fucking ring!
Heyman didn't have much to work with in the ECW roster. Guys were always coming and going, and Heyman always did a good job of working with what he had to put on a show the fans would still love. His booking skills can not be denied.
Heyman > Stephanie Mcmahon, and Vince Russo(or whoever is running TNA now).
I would love to see what Heyman could to with a modern wrestling promotion in this day and age. I think you could do a new promotion aimed towards the adult "Smart Mark" 18-35 demographic with a guy like Heyman in charge of creative, and it would be a success. There is a pretty big crowd of people in between MMA, and what the WWE is doing right now that desperately want to be entertained.
His time in the ECW as the booker was underrated in my opinion. He took a bunch of guys that had little to zero talent, too short, too skinny, no good on the mic, no good on the mat, and turned them into an integral part of the show. If you can get guys like Balls Mahoney, and Hack Myers(the Hacksaw Jim Duggans of ECW history) over as they were, you are doing something right with the booking. Heyman was just so in tune with his crowds. What better way to get talentless bums like Balls Mahoney and Axle Rotten over than by putting Pantera shirts on them! Who doesn't love a guy in a Pantera shirt! Probobly guys that didn't like ECW anyways.
Heyman's Taz mma character was unbelievable in the original ECW from late 95 to 98. One of my favorite characters in pro wrestling history, mainly because of the way he was booked. They built him up into this legit fighting monster who couldn't be beat, but he still managed to keep the crowd in love with him(as opposed to the way fans started to turn on Goldberg before the end of 98). What better way to end an undefeated streak than by putting the man through the fucking ring!
Heyman didn't have much to work with in the ECW roster. Guys were always coming and going, and Heyman always did a good job of working with what he had to put on a show the fans would still love. His booking skills can not be denied.
Heyman > Stephanie Mcmahon, and Vince Russo(or whoever is running TNA now).
I would love to see what Heyman could to with a modern wrestling promotion in this day and age. I think you could do a new promotion aimed towards the adult "Smart Mark" 18-35 demographic with a guy like Heyman in charge of creative, and it would be a success. There is a pretty big crowd of people in between MMA, and what the WWE is doing right now that desperately want to be entertained.
shooter_mcgavin
Mid-Card Championship Winner
What people also forget at that time was that Smackdown! during Heyman's reign was not only great because of the Wrestling but they had good stories as well. While RAW was having some of the worst stories out there like HLA, Kane being a murderer, a recycling of the Unamericans, Smackdown! never had to go too the extreme (no pun intended) to tell an effective feud.
Take Undertaker and Lesnar's feud for instance, the hook to it was Sara but she was more of a bait than the actual focal point. It created a vulnerable Undertaker and told a story of Lesnar capitalizing on it.
Then you had the Heel vs Heel Benoit vs. Angle feud. I tell you it's not easy to do a feud with two heels involved, but it worked for these two and created an interesting story where both were rivals but having to become tag team partners.
These were the main examples but there were more. But it goes to show that Heyman's Smackdown! was not only a product of 5 star Wrestling but also telling effective stories to build these great matches.
Fine. Let's just say, for argument's sake, that the bad shit has been Vince's fault, and that Paul Heyman should be judged by his run in the original ECW. I'll go ahead and ignore Paul's role in, and say it all falls on Vince.
What would be the difference this go-round? What will be so different, that Vince will allow Paul complete control over the company, and run those fabulous ideas you believe he has. Paul will always have Vince over his shoulder; even when he's gone, Stephanie and Hunter will be there, watching Heyman like a hawk eyes a fat, fat quail. If Paul is brought back, he's not coming back with carte blanche, ready to do everything he wants.
No, he's coming back to the exact same environment he left in the first place.
slice_of_life
Pre-Show Stalwart
Paul Heyman is a wrestling genius. There is no credible argument that can be made against that. I don't think the McMahon family particularly cares for him, nor do I think his writing could fit the PG era. That being said, the WWE is in an incredibly terrible place when it comes to their writing/booking. I would drop to my knees and thank the lord if Paul Heyman ever did take over because right now the E's creative team is looking like it's made up of Vince Russo's relatives.
