The Roster is too big!

[Shotaro]

So, I was thinking about NXT and the guys there who are ready to come up or will be in the not-so-distant future and I think that there are maybe 8 or more folks who will be ready to make the jump in 2015.

Samoa Joe
Kevin Owens
Sami Zayn
Finn Balor
Hideo Itami
Sasha Banks
Charlotte
Becky Lynch

So it got me to thinking how many people are currently on the WWE roster.

It's around 60 active competitors but that is without including people who are officially listed as active but aren't (Eva Marie, Jericho, Christian, Hunico, Hornswaggle, Lana, Booker T etc) I should point out that 60 active superstars was the size of the roster when the brand split happened and it only really ended due to a lack of main event talent.

Is it just me or is this just too damn many people? Specifically isn't this too damn many people just hovering on the C shows to fill time? Why doesn't WWE trim some of the fat and give more of the NXT talent a promotion?

Can you honestly tell me that Cameron, The Ascension, Zack Ryder, R-Truth and Los Matadores are going to draw? What about Jack Swagger?

I'm genuinely curious what people think about this because it frankly staggers me that we see the same 25% of the roster on Raw each week and then after all of the TV is done with we see maybe 70% in total.

 

[Navi]

I'm actually quite surprised that we haven't heard of them future endeavoring anyone by now. Usually after Mania that's when they try to trim down the roster, but we've heard nothing. And there is more than a couple that could go. Swagger, Rose, Ryder and Fandango have all outlived their usefulness. I have no idea who else they might get rid of.

Hideo Itami and Sami Zayn are both injured, and expected to be out for awhile, so I don't expect to them on the main roster, for the next year or so. Balor looks ready to make the move, and Samoa Joe doesn't need anytime in NXT. Owens is already making his mark, but one of them will have to stay. Either Owens will drop the title to Balor and move up, or Balor will lose to Owens and move up. The girls have no idea why some of them aren't already on the main roster, the Diva's division sucks they are needed.

 

[Charismatic Enigma]

You've got a lot of factors at play here…

Even if you only watch Raw, remember this:

Raw=pre show/dark match, Main Event, 3 hours of Raw, post show/dark match

Smackdown= pre show/dark match, Superstars, 2 hours of SD, post show/dark match

NXT= tapings, live events, and PPV/specials

Monthly main roster PPVs

While this is going on, you've also got a full time touring schedule, live appearances, interviews, Be A Star, Make a Wish, etc. etc. etc.

60 people might sound like a lot, but WWE produces a TON of live content on a weekly basis, beyond the already huge amount of TV/network content. The same A list players can't perform at every single show. Plus you send some of these guys to help young talent at the performance center, and you always want to have a few on the back burner to compensate for sickness and injuries.

Beyond that though, when guys like Adam Rose, Fandango, The Ascension, Zack Ryder, etc. get mentioned, I think it is totally unfair to them. This isn't a case of Khali who legit who couldn't talk or wrestle. These performers are all very capable, I've seen every one of them cut good promos, work solid matches, and all have gotten over to some degree whether online, NXT, whatever. If WWE puts them in stupid gimmicks, or poorly written angles, or doesn't give them the opportunities to showcase their full abilities, who's fault is that?

I agree there might be a guy here or there that could be cut, but generally speaking I think the roster is pretty strong right now, the creative isn't (except in NXT).

 

[Prince Vee]

I agree with the OP. The roster really is too big and the most dreadful thing amongst that is, the creative team doesn't know what to do with many of their talents. There were times when we saw the lower midcard feuds going over for months. But its not happening anymore.

The creative team are clearly a lacklustre. They just focus on the MainEvent for every PPV and one or two other guys. That leaves many talents down the road doing nothing. This makes the roster too big and too Vulnerable.

Cheers!!

 

[Navi]

While this is going on, you've also got a full time touring schedule, live appearances, interviews, Be A Star, Make a Wish, etc. etc. etc.

60 people might sound like a lot, but WWE produces a TON of live content on a weekly basis, beyond the already huge amount of TV/network content. The same A list players can't perform at every single show. Plus you send some of these guys to help young talent at the performance center, and you always want to have a few on the back burner to compensate for sickness and injuries.

While I agree there is a lot of factors in play here, you won't get butts in the seats at Live shows just featuring Fandango and Adam Rose in the main event. The A list players so attend and perform at these show, as they are the draw to begin with.

I haven't been to a Live show in the last two years that didn't feature The Shield, Cena or Daniel Bryan. Yes acts like Fandango help round out the card, but those matches are typically squashfests and last minutes. And really since when were some of these guys featured as main event talents. Last year we had Reigns and Bryan out at the same time, and none of them showed up to fill their spots.

The roster is very heavy and in order to make room for some of the new guys coming up, some who have been around for awhile and not used might find themselves looking for work.

 

[Vanilla Midget]

I'd take too big of a roster over a roster with no depth any day of the week. I don't see this too many people point of view. You need guys to come out and lose, you need Fandangos, Ryders, Camerons, or Ascensions to job. Yes, there are a lot of people that aren't going to draw. They're needed, to job.

There will likely be some cuts in the near future. What I think is more likely is we'll start to see main roster talent do what Rhyno is doing, finish out their careers in NXT working with the young guys. It makes more sense to maintain a healthy pool of enhancement talent with the rise of NXT as more than just a development territory.

A deep roster is a double edged knife, a lot of people get lost in the shuffle and wind up without storylines. Bo Dallas is having his first PPV match of the year, Stardust is directionless, R-Truth arrives for a push than vanishes constantly. This can be confusing and annoying for sure.

The opposite is WWE cleans house, but what if they cut too deep? We probably don't have much left of a lot of the older guys (Taker, Henry, Christian, etc) and others likely only a few years left. Cuts will probably happen again in the future, but it would be a mistake to right off too many with all the change that will take place the next two to three years.

Some people will be cut. Others will be strung along so that they don't go wrestle elsewhere. A heavy roster is far preferable to a light one. If there are cuts, I don't see them happening until 2016 at the earliest.

 

[Messiah]

Jesus Christ, all you did is pick the IWC darlings... How is Joe ready to make the jump? He just got there for god sake, there's no telling how he'll do on NXT..

 

[rge2010]

I think WWE needs a pretty big cull if I am honest. The only other alternative is a brand split and that is something I am in favour of if it was done properly and talent didn't move between brands on a weekly basis.

 

[WarroBODFan]

Jesus Christ, all you did is pick the IWC darlings... How is Joe ready to make the jump? He just got there for god sake, there's no telling how he'll do on NXT..

He listed the very best guys and girls in the NXT division (I'd throw Bayley in as well), it's not a case of picking and choosing IWC darlings, what a ridiculous thing to say. Who else is he supposed to pick?

In terms of character development, wrestling ability, promo ability, they're all ready aside from Hideo Itami perhaps, and that's purely from a culture adjustment standpoint over anything else. These guys know the "WWE" style. If Joe wasn't ready, he wouldn't be on TV. Also, I've no idea how Charlotte is an IWC darling when she's only wrestled in NXT, and she's worked so hard to show she's really really good and not just there because of her Dad. If that makes her an IWC darling then I don't even see how that's a bad thing.

Now, just because they're successful in NXT, doesn't mean they'll automatically be stars on the main roster. But.... you just know when somebody is going to be good. All due respect to Bo Dallas, I don't think many saw a future WWE champion on the horizon when he moved up. At least I didn't. In guys like Owens, Balor and Zayn, I see a star power and future main eventers. This isn't purely down to WWE booking. If they didn't have the qualities they were looking for in top guys, they wouldn't get the creative push in the first place.

This notion that the main roster is this huge leap from NXT just doesn't exist, in my opinion. I agree with an earlier post saying that we could see more main roster guys come down and have an extended period in NXT to work with the younger talent, and to give themselves a new lease of life career wise. Fair to say it's done Tyson Kidd the world of good dedicating 90% of his TV time to NXT. He was a really good heel while facing guys like Zayn, Neville, and that led to more main roster appearances after that. No reason it couldn't work for someone in limbo like Jack Swagger, or Curtis Axel.

I do anticipate cuts, but I also anticipate guys switching between NXT and the main roster every so often.

 

[Wrestlingaholic]

What I think they need to do is overhaul the booking committee in a specific way.

One person 'chairs' the committee (let's say Vince McMahon), so he has the final say

Along with Triple H and Steph, Vince the divides the entire roster into 4 groups: main event, mid card, low card (ie Main Event/Superstars tapings) and tag team - or even just three, minus the low card, and the ME/SS tapings feature matches from the lesser two 'divisions'

Then each division is designed a head booker and possibly a small committee (no more than 4 people per division)

That way, each wrestler knows who he/she 'reports to', who they can perhaps make suggestions to, and has somewhat of a direction, whilst the bookers don't have to overlook certain wrestlers because they are over focused on the top of the card.

Obviously if the McMahons feel a particular wrestler is doing well/not doing well, they can then simply switch them between divisions.

 

[MrWrestlingIII]

I think NXT needs a TV title. I'm looking at guys like Tyler Breeze who aren't sniffing the NXT Title anytime soon. I think it just gives the midcard something to fight for. Have a TV title tournament and provide relevance to the entire card.

 

[Shotaro]

You've got a lot of factors at play here…

Even if you only watch Raw, remember this:

Raw=pre show/dark match, Main Event, 3 hours of Raw, post show/dark match

Smackdown= pre show/dark match, Superstars, 2 hours of SD, post show/dark match

NXT= tapings, live events, and PPV/specials

Monthly main roster PPVs

While this is going on, you've also got a full time touring schedule, live appearances, interviews, Be A Star, Make a Wish, etc. etc. etc.

60 people might sound like a lot, but WWE produces a TON of live content on a weekly basis, beyond the already huge amount of TV/network content. The same A list players can't perform at every single show. Plus you send some of these guys to help young talent at the performance center, and you always want to have a few on the back burner to compensate for sickness and injuries.

Beyond that though, when guys like Adam Rose, Fandango, The Ascension, Zack Ryder, etc. get mentioned, I think it is totally unfair to them. This isn't a case of Khali who legit who couldn't talk or wrestle. These performers are all very capable, I've seen every one of them cut good promos, work solid matches, and all have gotten over to some degree whether online, NXT, whatever. If WWE puts them in stupid gimmicks, or poorly written angles, or doesn't give them the opportunities to showcase their full abilities, who's fault is that?

I agree there might be a guy here or there that could be cut, but generally speaking I think the roster is pretty strong right now, the creative isn't (except in NXT).

I agree the roster is strong. Is there anything wrong with strengthening it? Also am I really being unfair to guys like Fandango and Zack Ryder? I'm not saying they're bad at their job, not by any means but they surely know they're just warming the chairs for the next set of guys coming through the system. Some won't get over, Ryder and co aren't bad. They're expendable for the future of the WWE.

I'd take too big of a roster over a roster with no depth any day of the week. I don't see this too many people point of view. You need guys to come out and lose, you need Fandangos, Ryders, Camerons, or Ascensions to job. Yes, there are a lot of people that aren't going to draw. They're needed, to job.

There will likely be some cuts in the near future. What I think is more likely is we'll start to see main roster talent do what Rhyno is doing, finish out their careers in NXT working with the young guys. It makes more sense to maintain a healthy pool of enhancement talent with the rise of NXT as more than just a development territory.

A deep roster is a double edged knife, a lot of people get lost in the shuffle and wind up without storylines. Bo Dallas is having his first PPV match of the year, Stardust is directionless, R-Truth arrives for a push than vanishes constantly. This can be confusing and annoying for sure.

The opposite is WWE cleans house, but what if they cut too deep? We probably don't have much left of a lot of the older guys (Taker, Henry, Christian, etc) and others likely only a few years left. Cuts will probably happen again in the future, but it would be a mistake to right off too many with all the change that will take place the next two to three years.

Some people will be cut. Others will be strung along so that they don't go wrestle elsewhere. A heavy roster is far preferable to a light one. If there are cuts, I don't see them happening until 2016 at the earliest.

I agree that WWE needs guys to do the job, but here's the problem - those guys don't come out to get squashed by the next big thing. They fight each other and trade wins for a chance to job out on the A show. Why do they need the same A players on every show? They have what 7 or 8 guys on the roster right now who are there or thereabouts in terms of drawing power why not use them effectively. Have the John Cena open challenge on Superstars, have Rollins vs Orton as the "Main Event" They have so much drawing power and they just flat out refuse to use it. Why not let a mid-card or tag team title change hands on a B show?

Jesus Christ, all you did is pick the IWC darlings... How is Joe ready to make the jump? He just got there for god sake, there's no telling how he'll do on NXT..

Yes, by objectively listing the best people in NXT I've listed IWC darlings. Is it possible that the two things are similar. I am far from under the delusion that all of those people are going to be the next face of the company, more that they're ready for their shot at the big time.

What I think they need to do is overhaul the booking committee in a specific way.

One person 'chairs' the committee (let's say Vince McMahon), so he has the final say

Along with Triple H and Steph, Vince the divides the entire roster into 4 groups: main event, mid card, low card (ie Main Event/Superstars tapings) and tag team - or even just three, minus the low card, and the ME/SS tapings feature matches from the lesser two 'divisions'

Then each division is designed a head booker and possibly a small committee (no more than 4 people per division)

That way, each wrestler knows who he/she 'reports to', who they can perhaps make suggestions to, and has somewhat of a direction, whilst the bookers don't have to overlook certain wrestlers because they are over focused on the top of the card.

Obviously if the McMahons feel a particular wrestler is doing well/not doing well, they can then simply switch them between divisions.

Except it wouldn't be that easy, right now they have two teams as I understand it. NXT and the Main Roster. Look at how hard it is for them to make room on the main roster for the guys in NXT who are ready (or will be within the next year) how are they going to fit in to the new system? Will some people have to go down and be effectively "demoted" to make room for them? Does going up a tier mean a pay rise? Does going down mean a pay cut (It would be indirectly I would argue as the lower guys get less PPV appearances).

 

[Radical]

So, I was thinking about NXT and the guys there who are ready to come up or will be in the not-so-distant future and I think that there are maybe 8 or more folks who will be ready to make the jump in 2015.

Samoa Joe
Kevin Owens
Sami Zayn
Finn Balor
Hideo Itami
Sasha Banks
Charlotte
Becky Lynch

So it got me to thinking how many people are currently on the WWE roster.

It's around 60 active competitors but that is without including people who are officially listed as active but aren't (Eva Marie, Jericho, Christian, Hunico, Hornswaggle, Lana, Booker T etc) I should point out that 60 active superstars was the size of the roster when the brand split happened and it only really ended due to a lack of main event talent.

Is it just me or is this just too damn many people? Specifically isn't this too damn many people just hovering on the C shows to fill time? Why doesn't WWE trim some of the fat and give more of the NXT talent a promotion?

Can you honestly tell me that Cameron, The Ascension, Zack Ryder, R-Truth and Los Matadores are going to draw? What about Jack Swagger?

I'm genuinely curious what people think about this because it frankly staggers me that we see the same 25% of the roster on Raw each week and then after all of the TV is done with we see maybe 70% in total.

Well, you say you see the same 25% on Raw, which may be true but it kind of makes sense. Certain guys get chances to shine on Raw but once Vince/Creative find out who is drawing they aren't going to bother with Health Slater vs Fandango on Raw because it's not worth everyone's time unless there is some BIG angle about to happen.

And you say that by the end of the week of WWE TV you see maybe 70%? I don't know, I think you would see pretty much all of them. I guess Main Event isn't on TV any more and Superstars and NXT, they are all on the Network but that's what you kind of have to take into consideration because those are shows they need new content and matches for each week. I bet if you actually listed those 60 on the roster and checked every match that happened on Raw, SmackDown, Main Event and Superstars (even leave out NXT, because I'm assuming your not including NXT Superstars in that 60), you would most, if not all, of the Superstars on the active roster. Who aren't you seeing that you would be expecting? If you aren't seeing someone they either haven't been around at all for some reason, maybe filming a movie or they are injured.


No, not every wrestler is going to draw. Jack Swagger's not going to draw but he's an excellent worker. He also has already had many accomplishments to his name so even if he is basically a jobber, he can still be hyped up as a big deal and he's got size and talent to come across as a threat.

Jobbers are needed and ones that are at least somewhat known and have some sort of past accomplishments are usually preferable, so Ryder and Slater, etc. are good to keep.

Sure, they could 'trim the fat' and get rid of Ryder, Slater, Fandango, R-Truth, and Los Matadores. I wouldn't be upset if they got rid of one or two of those guys, but what if they got rid of all of them? Who then would job? Then, someone else has to either come down a level and job or be brought up, but there are problems with both of these scenarios.

If you bring someone down then it's pretty much "goodbye" to their future chances of a title. And who do you bring down? It can't be one of those 7 or 8 drawing guys it has to be those mid-level guys, like Stardust but maybe it means someone like Barrett or Ziggler again! Not that it will happen but it could if WWE suddenly cut a bunch of their current jobbers.

The other side of the coin is if you bring up guys like you mentioned those from NXT like Owens, Balor, Joe and others. Well, if you bring these guys up, aren't you going to want to bring them up pretty strong? You don't want to bring them up just to job out immediately. And if you bring them up without much chance to get known and job them out then they won't be much use to you as jobbers even, you might as well get the 'local wrestler' since they will be about the same use.


So I think WWE has a pretty good size roster. Sure, they could use some cuts, still. Maybe guys like Zack Ryder and R-Truth should be cut, but don't they still have some value? If a new up and comer beats Ryder or Truth (both former US Champions) doesn't that mean a bit more than if a up and comer beats Fandango or Damien Sandow (guys who haven't won a Championship)? I'd think so.

Now, there does come a point where even a accomplished wrestler isn't help as a jobber. I think Kane and Big Show are getting very close to that level. But I think their size and ability has been what has kept them around so long.


WWE should probably make some cuts before the year is over but I would understand if they didn't.

 

[rge2010]

I would go ahead with the brand split again and see how they go for a year or two.

While Raw may suffer, I think Smackdown could gain if both shows had their own identity. Raw could be the larger than life, spectacle, razmataz show and Smackdown could be all about pure wrestling. Have the WWE champion move between both shows for new feuds.

Raw - WWE Title, IC Title, Divas Title.

General Manager - Triple H & Stephanie McMahon

John Cena, Randy Orton, Roman Reigns, Sheamus, Rusev, Bray Wyatt, Ryback, Kane, Big Show, Mark Henry, King Barrett, The Miz, Damien Sandow, Stardust, Goldust

Divas Division

Smackdown - WWE Title, US Title, Tag Title.

General Manager - John Bradshaw Layfield

Daniel Bryan, Seth Rollins, Dolph Ziggler, Dean Ambrose, Samoa Joe, Keith Owens, Neville, Fin Balor, Sami Zayn, Hideo Itami, Jack Swagger,

Tag Division - Cesaro/Kidd, PTP, Lucha Dragons, The Usos, New Day, Harper/Rowan

 

[adam]

The roster is a little big but remember its likely Kane, Mark Henry,
UT, are likely near the end of their careers and its also likely Cena
will be a part timer in the near future.

 

[TempestH]

The roster isn't too big. The problem is that the roster is too top heavy. There are too many "stars" who eat too much TV time so there isn't much room to showcase the lower half of the roster.

 

[LuckyLouie]

Like some people said before me. WWE is a big big company. They do tons of PR work and other things outside the ring. People like Otunga, Miz, Cena, Lana, Rollins do for the company. Rollins shows up at comiccon and awesomecon. Cena does so much damn pr work. Miz and others make movies. Tons and tons of house shows. They need people to work and they need people to lose. The reason a push for Cesaro died because he was red hot but they fed him to the top guys. There was not that many other guys who could be fed and he was just a victim of that. If there were more suitable jobbers on the show, there is a better chance for stars to build. Like I have been saying for a long time, a brand split is what is needed. nXt is the start. Like Heat and Velocity was. Smackdown was the next step. Eddie, Kurt, Benoit, Lesnar, Undertaker, JOHN CENA and Teddie Long! lol... Were guys who got their name made on Smackdown. Then moved up to RAW for the big time title win.....Except Eddie.. he is just damn good wrestler. RAW is the big time and it should stay that way. This allowed John to build himself up and become the #1 guy. This allowed you to have a number of stars, rookies, vets, and legends. Brand split should happen again.
It should be Regal with nXt and his brand behind him all the way since they know they are the best.
Heyman coming up to represent Smackdown ( I figured he can have more say in how Smackdown is run ) and have his boys behind him and form the Smackdown brand again. While someone from the Authority run RAW and be the leading brand. A all out war forms and the superstars divide

 

[Mustang Sally]

And you say that by the end of the week of WWE TV you see maybe 70%? I don't know, I think you would see pretty much all of them.

Yes, I would think so, too. If a person subscribes to the Network and has the inclination to watch all the minor shows (Superstars, Main Event, NXT + whatever else might be out there) they'd probably see just about everyone.

Still, the statements made by OP make me conclude a couple things:

--The main roster has people who have earned their way up with work done on that roster (except for Kevin Owens, of course.)

--The threat of folks on the NXT roster who are looking to move up must be the biggest nightmare of the main roster's supply of low and midcard wrestlers. Before NXT, the company looked to FCW to find the stars of tomorrow but that organization didn't get the exposure received by NXT. Now, they've got people coming up to the main roster who are already proven commodities (Owens, Zayn, Neville). The also-ran folks on the main roster must be watching NXT closer than is Triple H.

I doubt the main roster is too big. If there were people not being used for anything, they'd be dropped, especially in this age of cost-cutting. The bigger problem is that the existence of NXT is squeezing talent on the main roster.

It's good for the fans but must be hell on the talent.

 

[Shotaro]

Yes, I would think so, too. If a person subscribes to the Network and has the inclination to watch all the minor shows (Superstars, Main Event, NXT + whatever else might be out there) they'd probably see just about everyone.

Still, the statements made by OP make me conclude a couple things:

--The main roster has people who have earned their way up with work done on that roster (except for Kevin Owens, of course.)

--The threat of folks on the NXT roster who are looking to move up must be the biggest nightmare of the main roster's supply of low and midcard wrestlers. Before NXT, the company looked to FCW to find the stars of tomorrow but that organization didn't get the exposure received by NXT. Now, they've got people coming up to the main roster who are already proven commodities (Owens, Zayn, Neville). The also-ran folks on the main roster must be watching NXT closer than is Triple H.

I doubt the main roster is too big. If there were people not being used for anything, they'd be dropped, especially in this age of cost-cutting. The bigger problem is that the existence of NXT is squeezing talent on the main roster.

It's good for the fans but must be hell on the talent.

Since I wrote this it seems like the 'E want to having three touring brands in the near future. I would expect that they'll keep all but a couple of the guys I just spoke about on NXT.

 

[whoopin' ass]

The roster isn't too big, wwe only knows how to book for a handful of guys. With 5 hours of tv time, not to mention Main Event, there is no reason why you need to see the same guys wrestling twice a week yet we do all the time. Ziggler, Ambrose, Barrett and tons other wrestle on both Raw and Smackdown. Why? And then wwe wonders why the audience gets bored watching the same match for the 20th time. Remember back when Rock was feuding with HHH - what happened? He wrestled Billy Gunn. You didn't need to book Rock/HHH time after time, you added people to the mix and shook things up a little. There is no reason why they can't do the same thing here. Zach Ryder is a perfect example - we saw him wrestle Cena on Raw when they were in Long Island(about the only time you see Ryder now). Where was he during the Cena/Rusev feud? He is supposed to be Cena's friend and a former US champ too - is it that hard to book Rusev vs Ryder for Smackdown to advance the story and not have Cena and Rusev get into a confrontation on Raw? If they actually paid attention to their own history and made a decision that a person is only appearing on one show a week and stuck to it, it would make the product seem fresher. They have enough talent to do it - the run two sets of live shows in a week - they just don't do it.

 

[MaryChristine]

I haven't seen one person say they think the miz should be cut.
This blows my mind.

Its criminal what the WWE has done to the Fandango gimmick. They changed his music and stuck that leach named Rosa on him.
It was so bad they had to steal a storyline from LU and have him dump her so he could get his old music back...pathetic.
That's one simplified example of the misuse of talent.
Don't get me started on Sandow.

A big roster means that people are able to take time off. It means that we don't get sick of seeing the same tired gimmicks week in and week out. well, it should mean that.
Why does the whc have to be on every raw and smackdown?

can we cut bad news barrett?

 

[Dirk]

I was a big fan of the brand split. That way, Smackdown meant something. You also had two different GM's and storylines about not showing up on the wrong show. Plus Smackdown vs Raw as a concept I loved.

If they can afford to keep the reserves on (and it's not like there's WCW to jump to), it'll cover the depth if somebody extremely important gets injured.

JTG is gone, though, so it's not like anybody is safe anymore.