The Problem With Entitlements

[Natural Selection]

Instead of being sarcastic, please explain the difference. You make $40,000 a year, which is more than I make.

You choose to work in a field that cost more to get into then you will make in it. Don't use the I make less money argument. You choose to "make a difference" not make money. I do commend it, just don't act like you didn't know teachers aren't millionaires.

You seem to think taking benefits offered to you by the government is burdensome upon the rest of society,but you don't seem to mind driving the interstates put down by the government, drinking the water which has been regulated to safe levels by the government and taking the tax breaks which have been extended to you by the government.

Could you please explain the difference?

People have offered me crystal meth before, that doesn't mean I should take it or that it should even be there to be offered. I've never once said that the concept of these benefits is wrong, just the practice of them. They're abused to no end. There is absolutely no reason you or I should have to stand in line at wal-mart or food lion or whatever and see the same person that was outside begging for change in front of me with three full shopping carts of food that cost them nothing. It's absurd.

This is really convincing me of nothing, except that hard working Americans are suckers and I'm a fool for not exploiting the system and fuck it maybe I should just drink tonight.

 

[Slyfox696]

You choose to work in a field that cost more to get into then you will make in it. Don't use the I make less money argument. You choose to "make a difference" not make money. I do commend it, just don't act like you didn't know teachers aren't millionaires.

Oh, and you agreed to run a Papa John's store under the impression your average salary would be 7 figures?

The point I'm making is you make more than me, and you are taking government benefits. And I know I live a very comfortable lifestyle, so surely you, with more money, don't need that government assistance.

People have offered me crystal meth before, that doesn't mean I should take it or that it should even be there to be offered. I've never once said that the concept of these benefits is wrong, just the practice of them. They're abused to no end. There is absolutely no reason you or I should have to stand in line at wal-mart or food lion or whatever and see the same person that was outside begging for change in front of me with three full shopping carts of food that cost them nothing. It's absurd.

That was a lot of rhetoric which didn't even come close to addressing what I said.

Our government is running deficits. You make $40,000 a year. Surely you don't need to accept the benefits government gives to you, so why do you accept them? Why aren't you fighting to have your tax breaks removed, so our government isn't wasting money?

This is really convincing me of nothing, except that hard working Americans are suckers and I'm a fool for not exploiting the system and fuck it maybe I should just drink tonight.

It's convincing me you have no problem condemning others for accepting benefits, while simultaneously defending your own acceptance of benefits. You didn't even try to offer a defense, you just continued screaming about the benefits other people received.

Why can you not explain to me how your acceptance of government benefits you shouldn't need is different from others accepting benefits you claim they don't need?

 

[klunderbunker]

It never ceases to amuse me when people complain about paying people to eat which does help a lot of people, but heaven forbid we cut stuff like subsidies to oil and natural gas. Clearly those billions of dollars can stay but a grand a month to a hungry person? That has to go. Pay no attention to the fact that at a thousand bucks a month, it would take 83,000 years to reach a billion dollars which is regularly spent in a year to various industries.

 

[Natural Selection]

Why can you not explain to me how your acceptance of government benefits you shouldn't need is different from others accepting benefits you claim they don't need?

Me getting a tax break is not the same as me getting welfare, ebt, and other benefits without working. I work all year. I pay taxes all year. So, I fail to see how accepting a tax break is the same as receiving something for nothing. I'm paying into the system a fuck ton more then I'm getting out. While others pay in 0% and get out 100%, you really don't see how that's different? I see your point. You are pointing out how each one of us is dependent on the government in one way or another, fair point. Yet it was never designed for us to depend on them, once again should be other way around. Comparing interstates to food stamps is apples to oranges. It all boils down to the notion that the government is suppose to support its citizens, which is false. Government is suppose to protect our individual rights and liberties. Government is suppose to protect us from foreign threats. Government is not suppose to feed us. Government is suppose to provide us medical care. Government is not suppose provide us cell phones. Government is not suppose to pay us for nothing. Government is not suppose cloth us. Government is not suppose to shelter us.

The whole point of this thread/video was to point out how easily/often these benefits are abused as if that's what they are there for.

So, to answer your question I guess there is no difference. We are all fucking mooches leaching off the system, you win. Now, everyone go take the system for every penny you can get. Now that's the 21st century american dream.

 

[klunderbunker]

Me getting a tax break is not the same as me getting welfare, ebt, and other benefits without working. I work all year. I pay taxes all year. So, I fail to see how accepting a tax break is the same as receiving something for nothing. I'm paying into the system a fuck ton more then I'm getting out. While others pay in 0% and get out 100%, you really don't see how that's different? I see your point. You are pointing out how each one of us is dependent on the government in one way or another, fair point. Yet it was never designed for us to depend on them, once again should be other way around. Comparing interstates to food stamps is apples to oranges. It all boils down to the notion that the government is suppose to support its citizens, which is false. Government is suppose to protect our individual rights and liberties. Government is suppose to protect us from foreign threats. Government is not suppose to feed us. Government is suppose to provide us medical care. Government is not suppose provide us cell phones. Government is not suppose to pay us for nothing. Government is not suppose cloth us. Government is not suppose to shelter us.

The whole point of this thread/video was to point out how easily/often these benefits are abused as if that's what they are there for.

So, to answer your question I guess there is no difference. We are all fucking mooches leaching off the system, you win. Now, everyone go take the system for every penny you can get. Now that's the 21st century american dream.

So you're against promoting welfare?

 

[Nate DaMac]

1,000 a month? I have a family of 4 and the one month her and I were both out of work, we received around 500 bucks in food stamps.

I see where he's coming from to an extent. I, being the poor white trash that I am, have quite a few friends and family members who have or still do abuse the system to no end and it makes me sick. My family uses some assistance but it isn't very much. We get about 250 bucks in Food stamps and the kids get Medicaid. We were getting more when I was going to school full-time but I have some money issues to resolve before re-enrolling, which is why I'm back to working a shitty job at a fast food place for a while. When I report my income we'll probably lose the food stamps (I'm not avoiding reporting it, I haven't gotten a paycheck yet so I'm not reporting it before I have any money to withstand the loss.)

I desperately want to get to a place where I don't need assistance. Not just because it's wrong on a political level or whatever the fuck nonsense this douche-nozzle is arguing, just because the people who work in social services are seriously some of the most inept human beings I've ever encountered.

 

[klunderbunker]

1,000 a month? I have a family of 4 and the one month her and I were both out of work, we received around 500 bucks in food stamps.

I see where he's coming from to an extent. I, being the poor white trash that I am, have quite a few friends and family members who have or still do abuse the system to no end and it makes me sick. My family uses some assistance but it isn't very much. We get about 250 bucks in Food stamps and the kids get Medicaid. We were getting more when I was going to school full-time but I have some money issues to resolve before re-enrolling, which is why I'm back to working a shitty job at a fast food place for a while. When I report my income we'll probably lose the food stamps (I'm not avoiding reporting it, I haven't gotten a paycheck yet so I'm not reporting it before I have any money to withstand the loss.)

I desperately want to get to a place where I don't need assistance. Not just because it's wrong on a political level or whatever the fuck nonsense this douche-nozzle is arguing, just because the people who work in social services are seriously some of the most inept human beings I've ever encountered.

Short version: there are people that need and use the system for what it's designed for, there are people that abuse it. Crazy Republicans would rather throw out the entire system because of the abusers and leave those that need it out in the cold while ranting about wasteful spending, yet heaven forbid they cut something to people who don't need it at all but might write them a check come election time.

 

[Slyfox696]

Me getting a tax break is not the same as me getting welfare, ebt, and other benefits without working. I work all year.

So do the vast majority of those who receive the government benefits you complain about.

I pay taxes all year.

Again, so do the vast majority of those who receive the government benefits you complain about.

So, I fail to see how accepting a tax break is the same as receiving something for nothing.

Could you provide me with the statistics regarding the number of people you're referring to?

I'm paying into the system a fuck ton more then I'm getting out.

Highly doubtful. If you're married filing jointly, your tax bracket is 15%. At $40,000 a year, you would pay a little over $5,000 a year in taxes (before any tax deductions). Do you really think the $5,000 a year you pay in comes even close to the amount of benefits you receive? Even if you file Married Separately, you're only playing close to $6,000. Do you really think your $6,000 is a drop in the hat of the benefits you receive from the government?

So no, you're not paying in "a fuck ton more" than you're getting out, quite likely, you're paying in less than you're taking out.

While others pay in 0% and get out 100%

Almost no one pays in 0%, unless you only consider income tax. Once you begin factoring other taxes, which are generally much more regressive in nature, almost no one pays 0% in federal taxes.

I see your point. You are pointing out how each one of us is dependent on the government in one way or another, fair point.

I'm pointing out that it's silly for you to be so derisive of the millions of people who NEED government assistance to live.

Panye West wrote a post which detailed the benefits of someone who has used government assistance to better their life. Our two Republican candidates in the last Presidential election relied upon, at some point, government assistance.

Your response to this is to sneer at them and call them a bunch of freeloaders. All people like me are saying is to have a little bit of humanity. Quit thinking anyone who receives things like food stamps do so because they are lazy moochers, with no motivation to contribute to society. You know as well as I do, there is a small portion of individuals who do leech off society, but it is a VERY small portion.

Yet it was never designed for us to depend on them, once again should be other way around.

Times are just different than they were when the country was created. Technology has truly revolutionized the world and the way we need to look at it. We have to evolve with the world.

Comparing interstates to food stamps is apples to oranges.

Not really, at least not in the way I was using it as an example.

It all boils down to the notion that the government is suppose to support its citizens, which is false.

No one says government is supposed to support its citizens. The job of government is to protect its citizens. And when people fall upon hard times, the government should step in and protect them from starving.

Government is suppose to protect our individual rights and liberties.

The right to life can only be protected if a person can eat.

Government is not suppose provide us cell phones.

Just out of curiosity, you do realize it was Republican Ronald Reagan who started the free phone program and Republican George W. Bush who expanded it to cell phones, right?

But furthermore, in today's information age, how is an unemployed person supposed to find a job, if an employer cannot call them for an interview?

Government is not suppose to pay us for nothing. Government is not suppose cloth us. Government is not suppose to shelter us.

The government is supposed to protect our rights, the very first of which is the right to life. This is an unalienable right, set forth before the Constitution was ever drafted.

The whole point of this thread/video was to point out how easily/often these benefits are abused as if that's what they are there for.

You've yet to provide any evidence how of easily/often they are abused. All you've done is lumped everyone who has ever accepted government benefits (well, just those benefits you have arbitrarily decided to be less important than the ones you accept) into the same category of lazy, good-for-nothings.

We are all fucking mooches leaching off the system, you win. Now, everyone go take the system for every penny you can get. Now that's the 21st century american dream.

Again, your hyperbolic rhetoric blocks meaningful and intelligent discussion. Quit saying silly things and focus on the issue at hand.

 

[Natural Selection]

The right to life can only be protected if a person can eat.

You know damn well the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness does not mean we will feed you.

Just out of curiosity, you do realize it was Republican Ronald Reagan who started the free phone program and Republican George W. Bush who expanded it to cell phones, right?

Yes, republicans do shit I don't agree with as well. Bush introduced the Patriot Act as well and I strongly oppose that.

But furthermore, in today's information age, how is an unemployed person supposed to find a job, if an employer cannot call them for an interview?

Face to face interaction still exist.

The government is supposed to protect our rights, the very first of which is the right to life. This is an unalienable right, set forth before the Constitution was ever drafted.

The right to life does not mean the right to be kept alive. It means you have a right to not be murdered.

You've yet to provide any evidence how of easily/often they are abused. All you've done is lumped everyone who has ever accepted government benefits (well, just those benefits you have arbitrarily decided to be less important than the ones you accept) into the same category of lazy, good-for-nothings.

Come spend one day with me and I assure you it will be an eye opening experience.

Again, your hyperbolic rhetoric blocks meaningful and intelligent discussion. Quit saying silly things and focus on the issue at hand.

Yeah, was seeing red last night and ended up ranting more then debating. I apologize I shouldn't have let my personal shit distract me from the topic at hand.

 

[Natural Selection]

I desperately want to get to a place where I don't need assistance. Not just because it's wrong on a political level or whatever the fuck nonsense this douche-nozzle is arguing, just because the people who work in social services are seriously some of the most inept human beings I've ever encountered.

Anyone who has ever dealt with those people knows this is 100% fact. Douche-nozzle, that's a new one. I laughed quite hard at that.

 

[Slyfox696]

You know damn well the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness does not mean we will feed you.

And you know as well as anyone that a person who is hungry is far more likely to commit a crime in order to get food. And you know as well as I do there are millions of children who are served under the food stamp program, children whose biggest infraction is simply to be born into a poor family.

On the contrary, if its purpose is to protect our freedoms and promote the general welfare of this country, feeding people who need it is most certainly a duty of the government.

Face to face interaction still exist.

So...the employer is going to drive to the prospects place? Is the candidate supposed to walk to the business every day to find out if he has an interview?

Terrible logic. A phone is a necessity in today's world. To argue otherwise is simply naive.

The right to life does not mean the right to be kept alive. It means you have a right to not be murdered.

...what do you think denying starving children food is?

It literally blows my mind to think of someone like you, who claims to be a parent, has no problem with children starving to death, all so you can continue to take those tax breaks come April 15th.

You obviously are not a religious man. But, right now, neither do you seem a conscionable one.

Come spend one day with me and I assure you it will be an eye opening experience.

I work in public education, you think I don't appreciate how many people are on government assistance? Over half our student population receives free/reduced lunch, though contrary to your depiction of them, most come from hard working families. Of course, you're against handouts for children to eat, so you prefer they go hungry. Which will do wonders for their ability to learn...

The point is, no one has ONCE denied it is abused by some. What I asked for was your statistics to show how often and by how many. You've yet to do so. All you've done is say that any one who has ever received government assistance are lazy bums. Even when presented with concrete evidence of one person who was not (KB's uncle) and with the evidence of how government assistance has helped those who have received it (Panye West).

By the way, why would spending a day with you be an eye-opening experience? Is it because you see many government assisted citizens visiting your business?

Yeah, was seeing red last night and ended up ranting more then debating. I apologize I shouldn't have let my personal shit distract me from the topic at hand.

Fair enough. Nothing personal, as you know.

 

[Tastycles]

I was going to read this all and comment. Then that guy said that access to healthcare wasn't a human right, and I just thought to myself I'm glad that I live in a country where if I get pneumonia, I don't have to die.

 

[jacdnwarrior]

If you want to complain about handouts, complain about the bailout package to banks who screwed up the economy, companies and people that don't pay a reasonable share of taxes. Complain about the ridiculous amount of money the US government spends on its armed forces (very little of which goes to the soldiers on the front lines).

Yes there are those who abuse the welfare system, disability, etc, but that pales in comparison to the amounts that are wasted in the ways already mentioned above and in previous posts on this topic.

A lot of people want to complain about entitlements but if we focused on the reasons people rely on these entitlements and work to a solution to get off the cycle of dependence, we'd be a lot better off.

 

[shattered dreams]

Natural Selection, how much do you think you are paying so people can eat? I looked it up and you probably pay something like $150 bucks a year in federal taxes for "job and family security" which includes food assistance, unemployment, housing assistance and child tax credits among several other things. You should get a $1000 tax credit for your child. Whenever you point a finger, remember three are always pointing back at you.

 

[jacdnwarrior]

Btw, many people who get subsidies or government assistance work. They just don't make enough to live off of. They got laid off, minimum wage paying jobs, that kind of thing. People get paid peanuts so CEOs and other high executives can get the perks and bonuses. It can be a tough world for many.

 

[Natural Selection]

Btw, many people who get subsidies or government assistance work. They just don't make enough to live off of. They got laid off, minimum wage paying jobs, that kind of thing. People get paid peanuts so CEOs and other high executives can get the perks and bonuses. It can be a tough world for many.

I agree it's a cold hard world out there, but if your capable of working then why are you not capable of working multiple jobs? Are you too good to work six and seven days a week? Or are you simply one of those people that think forty hours a week is enough to be successful? It isn't. Every successful person works at least sixty hours a week. Again not saying it's not a hard world out there, but it always has been. Pull yourself up, be motivated, bust your ass, and depend on yourself not the government. I mean seriously how many times has the government dropped the ball? Katrina, Sandy, 9/11, Waco, etc etc etc...

"I support my country 100% of the time and my government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain-