The Kofi/Orton botch on Raw

[BladeRunner]

I think Orton acted pissed because his character (Kayfabee), while usually a silent pyschopath type, is supposed to be getting Irate with Kofi Kingston standing in his way again, and again , and again, no matter how many times he beats him down. So Orton is showing a more violent side towards him because of how frustrating it is..

But you're leaving out a key part. Orton was cursing up a storm. He was saying things clearly "non-PG". Now if he was supposed to be getting pissed kayfabe style, he would still have to use PG language to stay "in script". He wasn't tho. He was all rated R superstar

So those who think he's within kayfabe are forgetting that you're watching a PG program, with a guy using rated R language. The R language clearly shows something went wrong.

 

[Razor]

That is a really good idea. Kofi isn't on the level of a Cena or Triple H, so a punt would have put him out for at least a week. Or, more conveniently, out until the Royal Rumble. He comes in for the surprise save for Sheamus, and Kofi has a reason to be in the Raw EC with Orton.

That could explain why Orton blew up like he did. I mean, Orton isn't really who you think of when it comes to the word "professional." But fucking up an entire angle would piss me off, I'm sure. If what you're saying has any ground to it, Kofi fucked up something fierce. Not only did he screw up the match, he also screwed up the match at the Royal Rumble. That, honestly, would get me yelling.

As far as if this has any ramifications...it can. Kofi can get a depush for a few weeks, but I seriously doubt it. WWE doesn't have any time to be punishing stars with depushes. They need new blood for Raw, and they needed it yesterday. I bet money that if this is how things were supposed to go, Kofi will get punted this next Raw. Then they'll move along as if that was the plan all along. Simple fix, really.

However, this does call into question the Dibiase face turn everyone is clambering for. I think that if Kofi/Orton have a blow off at EC, then Dibiase should save his face turn for winning MITB and challenging Orton for the title. That will mean Kofi doesn't win MITB, but I can live with that.

 

[bigbootydaddyV]

it seems to be a clearly botched ending, though randy would have been credited more had he just switched to the RKO rather than bitch about it during the match and after... also getting caught on camera saying "punt" (which i didn't notice kudos to whoever mentioned that) is even worse... now i know it happens all the time esp since they don't know where the camera is so that is probably not his fault. But great job by the announcers, only on raw can this happen and the announcers steer the crowd from knowing, can you imagine if this happened on ECW, the announcers would be caught off guard and let on in an instant something happened. Orton's overreaction was too much, though he is lucky that most of the IWC likes him or else it'd be the perfect chance to get rid of him... one call to the network to complain bout the f-bombs and you better believe he'd be disciplined and probably taken off for a while.

 

[airvar]

But you're leaving out a key part. Orton was cursing up a storm. He was saying things clearly "non-PG". Now if he was supposed to be getting pissed kayfabe style, he would still have to use PG language to stay "in script". He wasn't tho. He was all rated R superstar

So those who think he's within kayfabe are forgetting that you're watching a PG program, with a guy using rated R language. The R language clearly shows something went wrong.

He is talking to himself though, He isn't on the Mic, and him cussing up a storm is based our "lip reading" skills. It's PG TV, but to stay PG all they really have to do is refrain from Cussing on the mic, he can say whatever he want's to himself.

It's just hard for me to imagine a guy who has been in the WWE for a a good bit now in Kofi, and has been on multiple payper views, and held multiple titles, flat out FORGETING he was supposed to get punted to end the match..

This seems more like something the IWC is blowing way out of proportion. Like the Sheamus Was supposed to go through the table thread not to long ago, and how Cena was DEFINATLY going to win the WWE title back the next night because sheamus was not supposed to win that match.

 

[TRYPZ UP!!]

How long has this feud been going on with orton/kingston? A few months now and has been the best feud in recent memory that has kept the audience interested. Now can one person name one time that kofi has messed up or botched a move or even an entire match with orton? NO! The way i viewed this is if anything kofi bought Dibiase more time because he was obviously way late getting to the ring. Now for orton's lil blow up that is completely uncalled for that was not in character monday night. and that RKO he delivered as awesome as it looked was very dangerous and as i recall didnt kennedy get future endeavours for almost putting orton on the sidelines for awhile? ummm YES he did. So as much as orton is the best thing going on Raw right now a, fine would NOT be out of the question you cannot suspend him because he is the new number 1 contender to the title and the Rumble is just around the corner. But to throw kofi under the bus the way he did is just immature and ridiculous. Be professional and for those who believe orton was in character post a video showing orton blow up like that from any of his heel days.... you have years to work from.

 

[ITrippedTheShockmaster]

It looks like it was definitely a botch on Kofi's part, but Orton should have maintained focus and played along.

Yes, Orton did a decent job of that by hitting the RKO (as awkward as it looked) and Kofi playing to a clean pinfall. However, the camera catching him saying "punt" does show that was the plan all along. Maybe Kofi didn't hear him because it looked like he muttered it and it's usually pretty loud in those arenas, but Kofi should have known that was the finish because they most likely did a run-through earlier in the day. Why Kofi decided to keep getting up is a mystery. Orton was visibly frustrated, which ended up working well somewhat to his heel character as he kicked Kofi down, then basically throwing a fit on the mat and then RKO'ing Kofi. His reaction after that - yelling "stupid" to Kofi and the pin and angry shake-off of the ref and the F-bomb - shows that he was pissed at the finish. But the match still ended with him winning, so he should calm down and just play to it, then deal with it in the back.

Pretty much everyone who has more than a casual knowledge of pro wrestling knows that it was a botch. I doubt Kofi or Orton will get punished more than a verbal from VKM or the agents, and I doubt either will be off TV because they need to play up Orton/Sheamus for the Rumble.

 

[Golden badger]

Yeah i see what you mean with him saying punt!

I dont know what Kofi was thinking there, maybe just an honest mistake, but i am 100% certain that he was supposed to be punted! Ortons reaction was completely genuine. Its funny really, because i didnt get it right away, but when i first watched the video of the match on wwe.com, i thought something was wrong for him to react like that, and this thread has made sense of it all for me, so thanks!

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

I agree, but this isn't a stage play. This is wrestling. And I don't think it's out of character for him to react that way. Many people view it as Orton just being "evil". Orton's reaction is in a time and place where it doesn't draw the audience out of the show, because he's supposed to be an evil dick. If he was a face and did it then I'd see it as out of character. If he called him out on it on the mic, that would be unprofessional. But I don't see anything wrong with what he did in this situation. Unless he was intentionally trying to hurt Kofi with that RKO, because that looked vicious. He should definitely be punished for that if that was the case.

Actually, it is a stage play. And episodic play that takes place on a stage on Mondays. A stage is literally defined as a place where actors perform. It also helps that it's elevated.

Also, a Kayfabe Randy Orton in a PG-world wouldn't have been visibly and audibly cursing at Kofi. Acting like a brat on live television is more unprofessional than anything that Kofi did in that ring, whether it was intentional or not.

 

[VintageWWE]

When Kofi mounts the ropes to do the punches, Ted does take a while to enter the ring, when he does it looks like he "chops" Kofi's leg from underneath him, but the way I see it is that he misses Kofi and hits Orton in either:

a) The stomach region
or
b) the groin area (a potential, but unintentional low blow)

That is impossible. You can clearly see from the video that neither Ted or Kofi hit Orton at the turnbuckle. It may have took Ted a while to get in the ring and the shot he delivered to Kofi may have looked weak but that was definately not what Orton got angry over. Ted did nothing wrong and Orton was clearly mad at Kofi for the ending.

 

[kerplin]

However, the camera catching him saying "punt" does show that was the plan all along. Maybe Kofi didn't hear him because it looked like he muttered it and it's usually pretty loud in those arenas, but Kofi should have known that was the finish because they most likely did a run-through earlier in the day.

I'll add my two cents as well to shed some first hand experience on this if I can.

If you've set up an ending before a show, you don't call it right before it happens. It's pretty cut and dry, "Dibiase interferes, take the punt." The fact that it does appear that he called it, probably means he wanted to change the ending, which is fine, and happens at times. Of course being that far away, and with that much noise, the chances of you hearing the call is pretty slim.

Probably the more appropriate measure would have been for Orton just to tell Kofi that he needs to take the punt, instead of just pushing him, as though he would automatically understand that meant to take the punt, and wasn't just Orton being in character and taunting.

Another possibility could have been that something earlier didn't go as planned and things got jumbled. Everyone makes mistakes, and loses track. It just takes one thing, to confuse one person, and you have two people on separate pages. Very easy to do really.

A more interesting theory might be, that maybe Orton made a mistake, and mixed up the ending of the match that was supposed to end in a punt. Orton hasn't been known to be that reasonable to deal with. It would seem to fit perfectly within reason that he would blame Kofi for a mistake that was partially his fault as well.

Either way I think it's been blown up a little too much, I can't think of anyone that hasn't committed a few botches at some point. And to get as angry as Orton did over something he himself has been guilty of, is kinda sad. And for everyone to blame Kofi for blowing everything is stupid. If Orton hadn't reacted the way he did no one would have been the wiser. I forget if it was Jim Cornette, or Al Snow said this(paraphrased btw) "the fans weren't there when you went over the match, they don't know if it was a mistake or not unless you tell them it was."

Just my thoughts.

 

[Wrestlefan27]

If Orton hadn't reacted the way he did no one would have been the wiser.

Many people saw his reaction and still weren't the wiser. I didn't even realize there was a botch until I read this thread. Other posters in this thread say the same thing.

Smarks, i.e. the IWC, are not the WWE target audience. Who is going to notice that Orton is not acting in character? His character is an evil jerk. He acted like an evil jerk.

Explosive anger, with cursing or without, is a heel trait and there doesn't need to be video of the heel swearing in the past to prove that it's in character. Swearing to himself in the ring, not on the mic to the audience, is perfectly ok. The show is still PG. I still see nothing wrong with how Orton reacted. He could say a lot worse than calling someone stupid.

Actually, it is a stage play. And episodic play that takes place on a stage on Mondays. A stage is literally defined as a place where actors perform. It also helps that it's elevated

You're ignoring the fact that there are thousands of screaming fans around. That generally doesn't happen at a stage play. Not in this era anyway. Plus the whole show in a stage play isn't a fight. And the actors generally don't say things like "Are you sure you meant to say that?" because it draws attention to the mistake. Orton continued with the show. Wrestling and a stage play aren't similar enough to be used analogously. Not without ignoring major differences.

 

[chismo16]

Ok, after watching it a couple of times, it does look like Kofi was supposed to get punted. But I think it took way too long for Dibiase to get there. You could tell it was going way too long. Why would Cena be down for so long after something like that, but can kick out of everything in the world. You know Cena had to be thinking this is going too long. But Kofi not getting Punted doesnt screw things up. And Orton screaming Stupid and looking pissed off after the match doesnt affect anything, Orton is the heel, and anyone who just watches the show, saw that and thought Orton is a jerk, not thats unproffessional. Neither Orton nor Kofi should get in any trouble. Orton is supposed to be a jerk on screen. If anyone gets in trouble it should be Dibiase. If I were Cena I would be pissed, that took way too long.

 

[underworlderZer0]

As a performer, I'd like to add some perspective as well. have been in a number of plays and musicals where something gets messed up live; in many cases, some or all of the responsibility was mine. Being somewhat of a perfectionist, I would often get really upset with myself for allowing that to happen.

Often, the first thing I would do as soon as I got off stage would be to curse and freak out a bit. Orton has the luxury of cursing and freaking out at any time without breaking character. I'd totally do that if I had the ability to when something when wrong during a performance.

Did you consider that Orton was maybe pissed at himself? That's actually the vibe I got watching it the first time. The whole finish from Ted's run-in on was "Stupid, Stupid, STUPID!! F*CK!" All three guys messed that up.

So Orton threw a fit in the mdle of the match. So? Professional athletes do this all the time. It's not news. I suppose the WWE could fine Orton, and they might (they should definitely do it kayfabe).

And in the end it builds Orton's image.

 

[Stuntz]

Hello Everyone!
First post but I have been reading this site for years.

If you watch the video again, and right as Orton comes out of the corner, to me it looks like Orton says punt. Now I'm partially deaf and can read lips pretty good and it clearly looks like he's saying "punt"

What do you guys think?

After looking at it for the 20th time I can clearly see that, yes it really does appear he is saying "Punt", which tells me that it was a botched spot by Kofi.

I don't think it was meant to be a punt. I say this because Orton had gotten on his hands and knees and started banging his fists on the mat. He never does this before a punt, only to build up the RKO. When he punts someone, he gets that look in his eyes and slowly backs into the corner. He didn't do that.

I think Orton is just a spoiled brat who didn't get to go through his routine. The guy has had everything handed to him throughout is career, thanks partially to having the right last name. What he did was wrong, he should have saved the outburst for back stage.

Yes he was in the corner and as I just stated he did at least mouth "punt" then he pushed kofi down then flipped out with the pounding of the mat.

And as far as a spoiled brat, I dont think so. And how can you say he has had everything handed to him. The man has put his time in just like everyone else. As a matter of fact Kofi is closer to main evernt spotlight than Orton was at the same time in his career, so there is no merit to your comment above.

As far as saving the outburst for backstage, yeah he could have, but to me i think it benefited his on screen character more than it hurt him. If you think about it the only people who noticed are the IWC and that is a small percentage of the fans. To be perfectly honest I really didnt notice till i saw it again on here.

 

[VintageWWE]

After looking at it for the 20th time I can clearly see that, yes it really does appear he is saying "Punt", which tells me that it was a botched spot by Kofi.



Yes he was in the corner and as I just stated he did at least mouth "punt" then he pushed kofi down then flipped out with the pounding of the mat.

And as far as a spoiled brat, I dont think so. And how can you say he has had everything handed to him. The man has put his time in just like everyone else. As a matter of fact Kofi is closer to main evernt spotlight than Orton was at the same time in his career, so there is no merit to your comment above.

As far as saving the outburst for backstage, yeah he could have, but to me i think it benefited his on screen character more than it hurt him. If you think about it the only people who noticed are the IWC and that is a small percentage of the fans. To be perfectly honest I really didnt notice till i saw it again on here.

I agree with you 100%. The video shows that Orton was going for the punt and Kofi messed it up. Orton could of waited to show his anger backstage but what's the harm if doing it in the ring. I don't see how it can hurt him and I think Kofi deserved it if indeed he botched the finish.

 

[SuicideDive]

I am actually very surprised but happy to see the way these two threads have blown up. There are currently 199 users viewing this thread 189 of which are guests. Please sign up and give your opinion.

To me it seems a majority of people have the same basic take on the events that took place. I certainly think there was some sort of 'botch' at the end of the match but what exactly it was or who exactly made the mistake I don't know. No one will be fire or suspended for what happened but they may be held back for awhile.
When I first watched the match live I noticed that it took Ted forever to get in the ring and it almost looked like he punched Orton in the stomach instead of clipping Kofi off the ropes. I have watched the match 3 times now and through almost the entire match it just seemed as if 'something' was off about it. Even when Orton DDT'd Cena off the middle rope he had a really sick look on his face. I am on the fence as to whether or not Kofi was supposed to be punted or RKO'd. But after Orton pushes Kofi back down and starts pounding his fists in the mat to me it really sounds like he yelled "F*ck!, F*ck!, F*ck!" But more clearly was his looking directly at Kofi yelling "Stupid, stupid!"

Now like I said before I don't know if anyone did mess up. But it is a possibility that Dibiase screwed something up that pissed Orton off and because he can't hold his temper he needed to make it look like he was mad at Kofi instead of Dibiase. After all, everyone knows Legacy is on their to breaking up but had Orton started yelling at Ted, what would that lead the fans to believe? A lot of people are saying that it is just Orton being a heel but he has really never done anything like this during a match before that I can remember, where it obviously wasn't part of the storyline.

I don't expect any official word to come out of the WWE about this but I am interested to see what happens next Monday on Raw. I have to imagine Randy will bu looking to take out the frustration on someone. And if Kofi is not there.... we can again draw our own conclusions and opinions. In all honestly this is the reason I will be tuning into Raw next Monday...certainly not because Don Johnson and Jon Heder are the guest hosts. And I thought the Nascar guys were terrible... Oh well. Sorry for getting side-tracked.

 

[DonovanViper]

I am glad someone else saw the Ted punch as being delayed and not hitting Kofi, instead hitting Orton, it does give me relief to think I wasn't seeing things!

I don't think there will be any retribution because if there was I think Orton would be a bit hypocritical,
The missed RKO comes to mind when he attempted it on Jericho on an episode on RAW (I can't remember exact date but it was the one where he had to run back to the ropes when he missed it the first time.)

All in all I do think Ted will get the repercussions of the match on RAW next week as Orton could blame him for the delayed entry to the ring, therefore pushing him about and starting the feud costing Orton the title at the Royal Rumble and eventually leading to Orton vs Dibiasie at WM 26.

 

[Rzarectah]

if the punt was really supposed to happen, and judging from Orton's repeated F bombs while he was slamming his fists to the mat it looks like it was, he should have thought on the fly and whispered for Cody and Ted to hold Kofi. while they hold him, they tell him to sell the punishment ortan gives and then stay down and take the punt.

yeah it would have strayed away from what was supposed to happen, but i think vince would have commended orton for being able to think on the fly.

That WOULD be a good idea, if they were just attacking Kofi. Remember, this is a three way match that also included John Cena, so there is no way that Legacy could just enter the ring and hold Kofi down unless they decided to have the match end in a dq thus making Orton lose and ruining the Orton/Sheamus feud, not a good idea my friend. It definitley did look like Orton was pissed, and like I said in the other thread about this I agree that it looked like he was trying to punt Kofi, but Kofi forget, or decided "fuck gettin punted" Orton looked like he was doing everything he could to make every movement hurt worse, the way he rolled him over, the pushing of the head, and even though RKO's don't really hurt, that one looked like it might of because Orton just pulled his head down as hard as he could. As far as what I think of Ortons actions, I don't really mind Orton going crazy like that, as long as he has a valid reason,if he just botched a move (like Kennedy) then he completly overreacted and is being a fucking punk but if Kofi was supposed to get punted in the match and was supposed to be off Raw for a few weeks, than Kofi fucked up and Randy has every right to be pissed.

 

[RockFan89]

I don't see how Kofi could have botched this. How could someone forget that they are to be punted at the end of the match? Plus, Randy's push at the end would have reminded Kofi he was supposed to be punted. I think Randy tried to change the ending but Kofi just didn't want to go along with it and that is why he got up so fast.

 

[xBANEx]

Kofi clearly did -something- to make Orton overreact in the way that he did. Overreact? Yes. Orton isn't the kind of heel that's loud, obnoxious, or insults his opponents. He doesn't even act like he hates any the guys he faces, he's the one thats hated.

I've seen a few people in this thread saying they don't believe it was a punt because of how he was pounding his fists in the mat compared to the 'look in his eyes' he gets before doing so. But, I can almost SWEAR on my life that I hear him whisper the word punt when he's in the corner. Also, I may just be imagining this, but normally when he's setting up the RKO he goes at a LOT slower pace and actually builds it up compared to... slamming the mat a few times screaming the words "FUCK! FUCK! FUCK!"

Same for yelling "Stupid!" at Kofi afterwards. Would that be a heel trait? You bet your ass. Would that be an Orton trat? Honestly, no, not really.

Now, whether or not it was a botch of -SOMETHING- (Which, in my personal opinion, is a big green light), Kofi was giving possible stiff punches in the corner? (seems less likely but still a viable option), or we're all simply over analyzing things.

 

[Jonnie Walker]

First of all, if Kofi were to get punted, his push would be over, or whatever is left of it after him jobbing to Orton many consecutive times. If this is Vince's idea of a push, then he is as Randy screamed, stupid.Kofi was better off kicking everyone in the midcard's ass, than having him job every week. Him, John Morrison, Jack Swagger, CM Punk, R Truth, Matt Hardy and Dolph Ziggler are all guys getting completely de-pushed. Ziggler is going to feud with Kane, it looks like. If you have a thought of Ziggler winning cleanly, you're crazy. Morrison hasn't won a match in a long time, same with Hardy, Swagger, and R Truth. Swagger lost to Santino. Santino. Vince, are you fucking serious? Matt Hardy gets a great reaction, but has to wear purple freaking tights, and job to everyone and their mother. R Truth was supposedly getting a push and feuding with CM Punk, but now CM Punk is supposed to be Jesus, and R Truth, like everyone else I've listed, has been lost in the shuffle, including Punk. Kofi looked great at the start of this feud, lost to Orton an you think, oh, everyone loses in a feud (unless you're Hulk Hogan or Triple H).

Well, Kofi calls Orton a coward, then loses later on. He hasn't beaten Orton cleanly in a one-on-one match. Survivor Series doesn't count. Then he had the help of Mark Cuban. When was the last time he won a match cleanly. Morrison, is clearly de-pushed because he's my avatar. My last avatar was Kofi. Then it was Big Show. You see a link here? I do.

Oh, and Deego, Cena said, "Ignore them, I usually do." or something along the lines of that. Kofi was better off in the midcard. At least he won then. Will he get punished. No more than he is already.

Did Orton act like a bitch. Yeah. He's an asshole outside of the ring too. He spit gum in some kids face. He's a total douche. Orton obviously says "Fuck that, man." about Kofi being "Stupid!". He says Punt in the corner, and Kofi probably messed up something, but you keep your cool. The RKO was particularly vicious IMO, and it didn't look normal.Kofi, unless Vince and creative realize what they've done, will continue to have Kofi look like nothing more than a jobber.

 

[bran041]

@ Anonymous Mozzarella

how old are you??? in stage acting it is easy to forget lines...but in wrestling the most important thing to remembr is the finishing of the match...and it would not be hard to remember a finish with orton delivering a punt,plus these things are rehearsed and talked about b4 the show even starts, and kofi is at fault. randy orton is onli human, he must get angry because kofi botched it TWICE, and if orton had to deliver the punt AFTER the match, ppl would ask why is john cena not helpin out and why is he knocked out so long...kofi needs to go to smackdown and take the light off him so he can learn to cut promos and not become the next john cena with only five - six moves

 

[Viola Moonlight]

Sure, Kofi did seem to be off his game that night... but wouldn't you when you are a relatively new star getting a push alongside a man who has been known to blow up?

However, I'm going to go out on a limb and say Orton should have been the better man in the situation and should have resolved the entire thing right there. Right after he RKO'd Kofi, he should have told Kingston he was going for the punt kick. Hit the kick, get the win and that's it. Hands would be cleansed and you have everything you want.

 

[Undying777]

Kofi messed up the ending of the mach. It looked like Orton was setting up for the punt. However, Orton’s actions became UNPROFESSIONAL. As somebody already said, “If Orton had not thrown his temper tantrum at the end of the mach we would not have notice the botch ending.” Its one thing to mess up the ending of a mach, “a mess up that was not noticeable” , Its a whole other thing to almost brake your colleague's neck and flip out UNPROFESSIONALLY on pg tv. I would say that Orton should be in more hot water out of the two of them. I really don't think management is going to make a big deal over this seeing as he is one of Vince’s untouchables.

 

[CynicSteve]

Ok, I've been skimming over the responses and I don't know if this has been mentioned or not but you look at the longer version of the video it looks like when DiBiase missed his cue Kofi had to climb the ropes again. Then DiBiase messes up the hit to knock Kofi down which leads to Orton shoving him. It actually looks like Kofi slammed his head off of the mat during the fall. I wouldn't be shocked at all if Kofi got knocked stupid from the fall and just kept getting up. It's happened before. One prime example I can remember is when Orton first won the Intercontinental Championship. He knocked himself out within the first 5 minutes of the match. RVD carried him for the rest of the match still letting him win the belt. Now if a giant stoner could do something like that the least Orton could do is not act like a whiny little bitch. In my opinion.